Author Topic: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?  (Read 17631 times)

Offline Dr Cornwallis

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #120 on: January 25, 2010, 03:45:38 pm »
I was almost going to go to the police station and ask them for help as I couldn't control myself.

Ha ha, you're mental!

Just kidding, I know exactly how you feel, been there, thought that, still do from time to time.
Baths are bad, but playing the XBOX makes me feel normal.  From that, I deduce that I am not mental, I am neurotic and my problem is thought based and not physical.
The arguement is that people who are actually going crazy are not aware that they are going crazy.  If you think, if you worry about it, then you're ok, you're just getting wound up.  Don't try to think your way out of it, DO something to take your mind off it.

Offline Dr Cornwallis

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #121 on: January 25, 2010, 03:54:38 pm »

Why be angry about the past when it has already happened?

Why worry about the future when it has yet to happen?

Worth a read for you lot.

It's basic anxiety advice, live in the now.  Look the textures of things, think about where it was made, where it came from.  Shit example, but it's a start.

Offline kesey

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #122 on: January 25, 2010, 04:19:56 pm »
It's basic anxiety advice, live in the now.  Look the textures of things, think about where it was made, where it came from.  Shit example, but it's a start.

If you live in the NOW there is fuck all to worry about. It's staying in the NOW that is the hard bit. Again.. We are back to trying to stop the mind from wandering. Thats why at the minute I love playing the guitar.


* Edit *

What I posted a few days ago in this thread.

Mine goes like this....   peaceful mind, a random thought pops up , something like paying a bill , that leads to where Iam going to get the money from, to what i s money anyhow, why do people work ? What is the philosophical meaning of work. Was Descartes right? He sounds like a Chelsea player from a few years ago. Shit 6 years ago. Fuck I'll be 45 soon.........  Ah fuck this Iam putting the kettle on.

« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 04:22:22 pm by kesey »
He who sees himself in all beings and all beings in himself loses all fear.

- The Upanishads.

The heart knows the way. Run in that direction

- Rumi

You are held . You are loved . You are seen  - Some wise fella .

Offline liverbird_soph

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #123 on: January 25, 2010, 05:40:51 pm »
Been suffering from it for a few years (if not forever, since it seems such a part of me).
With me it's sometimes hormonal and sometimes stress related. The hormonal ones are short but heavy panic attacks which usually has a build up to a big attack and then I'm fine for another month. Been to the doc about it, he says he can't do anything about it, and that I just have to live with it. I'm not at all happy with that "diagnosis" so might go to another doc sometime soon.


Definitely go and see another doctor. I said in above in the thread that a lot of people don't understand anxiety disorders and that even extends to doctors. I lived with people studying medicine and they covered anxiety disorders in a day and never really learnt a lot about it. Disturbing to say the least. A lot of doctors just want to throw medication at you, as that is how they are used to dealing with the problems of their patients. Others just don't understand the severity of the problem and they simply don't want to.

However, there are doctors out there who understand and know about a range of techniques and treatments. It's just a case of finding them. My first doctor sent me off to an endocrinologist, he sent me off to some stuffy counsellor at the Priory and the stuffy counsellor sent me back to the original doctor. They all tried to get me to take anti-depressants. I said I wasn't comfortable with this and whilst they sat there twiddling their thumbs, I got worse.

I finally went to another doctor and she was brilliant. She understood the problem, took the time to listen and talked to me about the steps we could take and what I would like to do next. In the end she gave me a variety of techniques to try, formed a step by step plan for me and sent me to a counsellor who was really down to earth and comfortable to talk to. My barriers came down a bit and I was able to tackle the problem from a much more settled and secure place.

Going to doctors is difficult in itself with something like this, but keep on trying to find one who works for you. It is well worth it. If you happen to find one you click with and who is prepared to really try to work on your anxiety with you, the support they will then offer you is massively helpful.

You DON'T just have to live with this. You deserve to be taken just as seriously as someone with an illness that can be seen and treated with antibiotics. If your current doctor can't help, try to find another doctor who can - hope you are able to find a good one.

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Offline Daranoza

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #124 on: January 25, 2010, 06:13:00 pm »
I am currently contemplating total 'worst case scenario' on things and it's really beginning to do my head in because I can't. stop. thinking. about. things.
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Offline Dr Cornwallis

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #125 on: January 25, 2010, 06:30:51 pm »
Definitely go and see another doctor.


Don't accept pills.

Offline kesey

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #126 on: January 25, 2010, 06:42:55 pm »
Don't accept pills.

Take it you swerved the Tamazipans.
He who sees himself in all beings and all beings in himself loses all fear.

- The Upanishads.

The heart knows the way. Run in that direction

- Rumi

You are held . You are loved . You are seen  - Some wise fella .

Offline Dr Cornwallis

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #127 on: January 25, 2010, 06:45:04 pm »
Take it you swerved the Tamazipans.


I shouldn't have been given them at all, I was given some diazepam's instead.  But they're for one offs only, flying etc.

Offline kesey

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #128 on: January 25, 2010, 06:52:38 pm »


I shouldn't have been given them at all, I was given some diazepam's instead.  But they're for one offs only, flying etc.

Try yogic flying I hear it's good.
He who sees himself in all beings and all beings in himself loses all fear.

- The Upanishads.

The heart knows the way. Run in that direction

- Rumi

You are held . You are loved . You are seen  - Some wise fella .

Offline dutch_red

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #129 on: January 25, 2010, 07:02:12 pm »
Definitely go and see another doctor. I said in above in the thread that a lot of people don't understand anxiety disorders and that even extends to doctors. I lived with people studying medicine and they covered anxiety disorders in a day and never really learnt a lot about it. Disturbing to say the least. A lot of doctors just want to throw medication at you, as that is how they are used to dealing with the problems of their patients. Others just don't understand the severity of the problem and they simply don't want to.

However, there are doctors out there who understand and know about a range of techniques and treatments. It's just a case of finding them. My first doctor sent me off to an endocrinologist, he sent me off to some stuffy counsellor at the Priory and the stuffy counsellor sent me back to the original doctor. They all tried to get me to take anti-depressants. I said I wasn't comfortable with this and whilst they sat there twiddling their thumbs, I got worse.

I finally went to another doctor and she was brilliant. She understood the problem, took the time to listen and talked to me about the steps we could take and what I would like to do next. In the end she gave me a variety of techniques to try, formed a step by step plan for me and sent me to a counsellor who was really down to earth and comfortable to talk to. My barriers came down a bit and I was able to tackle the problem from a much more settled and secure place.

Going to doctors is difficult in itself with something like this, but keep on trying to find one who works for you. It is well worth it. If you happen to find one you click with and who is prepared to really try to work on your anxiety with you, the support they will then offer you is massively helpful.

You DON'T just have to live with this. You deserve to be taken just as seriously as someone with an illness that can be seen and treated with antibiotics. If your current doctor can't help, try to find another doctor who can - hope you are able to find a good one.



Yes, you are right. Like you say it's really hard to go to the doc about this, especially when the first one didn't help. And I already have huge issues with docs; I have a bad shoulder injury and been send from one doc to another and my last resort (MRI-scan) ended in the usual "rest your shoulder, and you'll be fine", been home ever since because I can't work because of the pain and numb-ness. But I'll really try and come up with the courage to get it sorted properly.

Don't accept pills.

Since it's partly hormonal, I might not have a choice (or is there a way to balance hormones naturally?)
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Offline kesey

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #130 on: January 25, 2010, 07:04:02 pm »

Since it's partly hormonal, I might not have a choice (or is there a way to balance hormones naturally?)


Yoga balances the endocrine system.

Back tomorrow cos I have to go.
He who sees himself in all beings and all beings in himself loses all fear.

- The Upanishads.

The heart knows the way. Run in that direction

- Rumi

You are held . You are loved . You are seen  - Some wise fella .

Offline liverbird_soph

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #131 on: January 25, 2010, 07:09:14 pm »
Don't accept pills.

Different things work for different people. I didn't want to go near medication and I never touched a tablet. I stand firmly by the choice I made and am personally pretty against anti-depressants. However, medication has genuinely helped other people I have known. For some extreme anxiety sufferers it is a necessity, as it is the only thing that enables them to feel well enough to attend cognitive behavioural therapy or general counselling.

The important thing (imo) is to find a doctor who will go through every option and try to find a treatment that suits the person in front of them. Perhaps it will sometimes end up being medication, but this definitely has it's own trappings and side effects and that should be explained. It is definitely not the only avenue to take. Doctors should be well aware of this and be able to look past medication when trying to find a cure. If their only solution is to throw prozac or amitriptyline at people, then go to someone else who will offer alternatives and something that you feel more comfortable with.
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Offline liverbird_soph

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #132 on: January 25, 2010, 07:15:03 pm »
Yes, you are right. Like you say it's really hard to go to the doc about this, especially when the first one didn't help. And I already have huge issues with docs; I have a bad shoulder injury and been send from one doc to another and my last resort (MRI-scan) ended in the usual "rest your shoulder, and you'll be fine", been home ever since because I can't work because of the pain and numb-ness. But I'll really try and come up with the courage to get it sorted properly.

Since it's partly hormonal, I might not have a choice (or is there a way to balance hormones naturally?)

Going to a doctor with something like this is tough, but try to get the strength to keep looking for a good one. It will be well worth the effort. The same goes for counsellors. Some people go to one and find that they don't click at all or believe in what they are saying. Try another one, as it can be a very useful tool for getting over anxiety if you find one you click with. They don't all bombard you with mumbo jumbo!

Vitamin B6 is a great natural way to regulate hormones and there are a variety of other natural remedies. I'll PM you. Exercise is also a fantastic regulator of hormones (as is yoga). I cannot over-emphasise just how valuable exercise is for anxiety sufferers - and for people with hormonal imbalances.

As I said above, medication can be the best option for some people. Just make sure you only go down that road when you have found someone who can explain the full background of anxiety meds and who can talk you through some alternatives as well. Despite what some doctors may tell you, it is NOT the only way to get over anxiety problems.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 07:29:14 pm by liverbird_soph »
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Offline firing squad

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #133 on: January 25, 2010, 07:32:16 pm »
I worry about irrational things, like heart attacks, strokes, going mental...I don't worry about work, I couldn't give less of a fuck about work.

same here. I've had an anxiety attack about 5-6 years ago,it freaked me out completely,I thought that I'm having a heart attack and that I'm dying.  Talked to a doctor and he said it's pretty much a common thing among young people these days,told me to stop eating junk food(because unhealthy food is one of the problems) and gave me xanax(minimum milligrams) so I used it for about 6-7 months(if I remember correctly) and then stopped.

Funny thing is that during that period I had a constant feeling of fear and "worry"(don't know how else to explain it  :P) and I literally couldn't move more than a 100 meters away from my building if I was alone or the symptoms of the anxiety attack would appear,freaked me out but then it stopped.

Now sometimes(rarely) that "feeling" comes but I just take a deep breath and it goes away.
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Offline dutch_red

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #134 on: January 25, 2010, 07:40:29 pm »
Going to a doctor with something like this is tough, but try to get the strength to keep looking for a good one. It will be well worth the effort. The same goes for counsellors. Some people go to one and find that they don't click at all or believe in what they are saying. Try another one, as it can be a very useful tool for getting over anxiety if you find one you click with. They don't all bombard you with mumbo jumbo!

Vitamin B6 is a great natural way to regulate hormones and there are a variety of other natural remedies. I'll PM you. Exercise is also a fantastic regulator of hormones (as is yoga). I cannot over-emphasise just how valuable exercise is for anxiety sufferers - and for people with hormonal imbalances.

As I said above, medication can be the best option for some people. Just make sure you only go down that road when you have found someone who can explain the full background of anxiety meds and who can talk you through some alternatives as well. Despite what some doctors may tell you, it is NOT the only way to get over anxiety problems.

PM'd you back.
Again thanks for all the advice!
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Imigination the means to explore reality

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Offline liverbird_soph

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #135 on: January 25, 2010, 07:53:25 pm »
Again thanks for all the advice!

You're very welcome :)
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Offline Dr Cornwallis

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #136 on: January 25, 2010, 07:58:25 pm »

Now sometimes(rarely) that "feeling" comes but I just take a deep breath and it goes away.

7-11 breathing, 7 seconds in, 11 seconds out.  Just make sure the out breath is longer than the in.
Pills dont solve anything, they just numb things.

Offline firing squad

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #137 on: January 25, 2010, 08:01:25 pm »
7-11 breathing, 7 seconds in, 11 seconds out.  Just make sure the out breath is longer than the in.
Pills dont solve anything, they just numb things.
didn't know that. cheers.  :)
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Offline liverbird_soph

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #138 on: January 25, 2010, 08:06:47 pm »
Pills dont solve anything, they just numb things.

Agree with you in the main and I think they're dangerous if taken long term. However, sometimes as a last resort, they can numb things just enough to make you physically able to get proper help.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 08:10:25 pm by liverbird_soph »
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Offline tinner777

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #139 on: January 25, 2010, 08:14:45 pm »
forget the pills, if you've the time and the finance find a counsellor who can introduce you to cbt, cognitive behavioral therapy, will help you challenge your negative thoughts.
http://www.patient.co.uk/health/Cognitive-Behaviour-Therapy-(CBT).htm
 Over 15 years in psych and its the only thing i've seen work again and again.

Offline liverbird_soph

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #140 on: January 25, 2010, 08:21:51 pm »
forget the pills, if you've the time and the finance find a counsellor who can introduce you to cbt, cognitive behavioral therapy, will help you challenge your negative thoughts.
http://www.patient.co.uk/health/Cognitive-Behaviour-Therapy-(CBT).htm
 Over 15 years in psych and its the only thing i've seen work again and again.


Completely agree that it is the best thing. My point is that some people's anxiety is so severe, they need medication in the short-term to enable them to get to counselling and to be receptive to it. I'm not pro medication in any way, I just think in some extreme cases it is necessary as a stepping stone to proper help.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 08:23:52 pm by liverbird_soph »
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Offline Dr Cornwallis

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #141 on: January 25, 2010, 08:22:18 pm »
forget the pills, if you've the time and the finance find a counsellor who can introduce you to cbt, cognitive behavioral therapy, will help you challenge your negative thoughts.
http://www.patient.co.uk/health/Cognitive-Behaviour-Therapy-(CBT).htm
 Over 15 years in psych and its the only thing i've seen work again and again.


You work in psych?

Offline tinner777

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #142 on: January 25, 2010, 08:25:21 pm »
You work in psych?
yes mate, ward manager

Offline Dr Cornwallis

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #143 on: January 25, 2010, 08:29:16 pm »
yes mate, ward manager

Can you recommend any good private CBT therapists?

Offline tinner777

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #144 on: January 25, 2010, 08:38:30 pm »
Completely agree that it is the best thing. My point is that some people's anxiety is so severe, they need medication in the short-term to enable them to get to counselling and to be receptive to it. I'm not pro medication in any way, I just think in some extreme cases it is necessary as a stepping stone to proper help.
Ok, I suppose in extreme cases, but what i find is Dr gives you pills for a week, it will definitely take the edge off what your feeling, so now your not feeling great but a hell of a lot better than before, you want the pills now, they work.. Two weeks in and your going to feel withdrawal symptoms if you just stop, also 1 pill isn't enough now you've had to up the dose a bit and so it begins....

Offline tinner777

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #145 on: January 25, 2010, 08:40:07 pm »
Can you recommend any good private CBT therapists?

Sorry i now live in cork, have a few connections in bristol, if thats any use to you

Offline 24/7

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #146 on: January 25, 2010, 08:49:30 pm »
Hi all just a few words....

Daranoza, Soph, Dr Cornwallis, anyone else who has anxiety or OCD or anything similar - are you in the Merseyside area and looking for some help? I can point you in the right directions as I have family in the mental health profession.

I have the "pure obsessional" form of OCD (as opposed to what most people might recognise OCD as being, the "contamination" one). The form I have relates to irrational fears, concerns and anxieties. It's important to say that, yes, many people suffer from some degree or other of anxiety or negative thinking but there is a very important distinction to make:

We have the same thoughts sometimes - but how we process them can differ.

A person not suffering from an anxiety disorder (like GAD, OCD, BDD etc) can usually dismiss the irrational fear or anxiety without much of a second thought. However, people suffering from conditions like those mentioned can find it extremely hard (or at least more difficult) to break the cycle of thought pattern and can find themselves in debilitating and often distressing emotional state.

Sometimes I can laugh at my OCD - for example, "If I don't wear my away shirt today and sit on the sofa on the left, and not in the armchair, then we'll lose." This is more superstition than a genuine fear.......

But there are other times - and this is quite a good sign or indicator for an anxiety disorder - when I might think "What if I don't do 'x'? Then 'bad thing y' will happen!" It could be related to work or to a relationship. It's the "If I don't [enter compulsive behavioural pattern here] then [enter imagined bad outcome here] will happen!" that differentiates things and often points to an irrational, unwanted and often distressing pattern of anxiety.

If anyone reading this thread is thinking "OhmygodthatsoundslikemeImusthaveOCD!" or something like that, and you are pretty certain that there is a problem that requires diagnosis, then go to your GP. Be open about what you're going through and request a referral to someone who can come to a proper diagnosis (not all GPs will be able to recognise an anxiety disorder for what it is, whereas others might - so it's sometimes useful to ask the question - many GPs will know a little about a wide range of psychiatric conditions but few will be in a position of any expertise).

I can recommend some websites, one in particular, that will assist anyone looking for help or advice. There is one that covers a decent range of anxiety-based conditions and is well-resourced and well-run (I even met my wife through the forums there).

Sometimes half the problem is discussing it. You'd be amazed at the sense of relief you get just sharing and realising you are not the only one who has those thoughts. I used to think I was the only one who thought some of the things I do and it was scary! There is a good reason why OCD (for example) is often called "the secret illness" - and General Anxiety Disorder is in the same spectrum.

Just a quick word on pills - I was dead against them too but when I was at my most anxious, the psych told me that I needed something to reduce the anxiety so that my mind would be more open to the idea of talking the problems through in a therapy environment. Many pills (such as SSRIs) take time to have any real effect - but they should really be seen as part of a combination treatment and not a solution.

If you are prescribed something, discuss what it is, why it's being taken, what the medication is to be used in conjuction with (don't just accept pills, make them give a treatment plan as well), discuss openly any known side-effects. Long term use will most often lead to increased doses - and then there's the comedown when stopping them. Medication should be phased out as well as phased in - and always in conjunction with some form of therapy.

There are many preconceived views around pills, anxiety, mental health in general - getting informed might help and there are plenty of resources out there but it's sometimes hard for sufferers to see the wood for the trees. You're not on your own and there is help out there, not just from the NHS and private sector - there is also a lot of support through various mental health charities and I'd be happy to discuss this with any of you - just drop me a PM.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 08:53:29 pm by 24/7 »

Offline Daranoza

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #147 on: January 25, 2010, 09:06:54 pm »
24/7 that sounds like exactly what I am like, to be perfectly honest. I have obsessive thoughts. They remain with me all day, every day for days at a time. Weeks, sometimes. "If I don't get into work at 8 today then I will fuck everything up." "If this letter has not been sent I will get sacked." "Even if everything is okay with x then y is going to fuck up and it will all just be terrible."

I count everything. Twice. Three times. if I see one For Sale sign on the way home I go to great lengths to count them all. It's a strange little compulsion but it helps to keep my mind occupied because if I have nothing to concentrate on then the feelings of dread return ("If I don't do this tomorrow I will get sacked" "If this letter has not gone I will get sacked"). It seems that the main focus of my irrational anxiety is work.

I know my thoughts are irrational. I know that is completely not normal to have physical panic attacks over a file; to have persistent dread over something that can, in all likelihood, be fixed. It's not normal to be so worked up over said file that you cannot remember your phone number, your pin number, the code to get in the front door with, yet I find myself in this state more and more, of late. I find myself waking up at 5am totally unable to get back to sleep because the dread is there again ("This time in four hours I will be at work and it will start all over again").

I don't know what to do. I don't now how to fix this. I can't take time off work to go to see a doctor because then I will panic that I have had time off work. I have no holidays. I don't even know what to say. I don't know how to explain anything without sounding totally off my head. How do I explain that I have repetitive thoughts, intrusive, obsessive, that I count everything, that I know that it is exactly 1345 steps from my bus stop to my house because I count it every day - that sometimes, just to make it a little bit more interesting, I count in twos because counting is so much easier than trying to deal with the file that might be wrong or the bill that might not have gone in.


 
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 09:08:25 pm by Daranoza »
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Offline tinner777

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #148 on: January 25, 2010, 09:15:18 pm »

Sometimes half the problem is discussing it. You'd be amazed at the sense of relief you get just sharing and realising you are not the only one who has those thoughts. I used to think I was the only one who thought some of the things I do and it was scary! There is a good reason why OCD (for example) is often called "the secret illness" - and General Anxiety Disorder is in the same spectrum.

There are many preconceived views around pills, anxiety, mental health in general - getting informed might help and there are plenty of resources out there but it's sometimes hard for sufferers to see the wood for the trees. You're not on your own and there is help out there, not just from the NHS and private sector - there is also a lot of support through various mental health charities and I'd be happy to discuss this with any of you - just drop me a PM.

lot of sense posted there. Before i put the kids to bed my last bit of advice would be, just how badly is it effecting your life? Think about it, is it stopping you enjoying things you did before? Are you losing sleep? etc... You probably need to go and speak to either your GP , pm 24/7 or phone a help line. If your not sure you can pm me. There's a load of help out there tailored to suit everyone. Good luck with it.

Offline liverbird_soph

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #149 on: January 25, 2010, 09:17:58 pm »
Ok, I suppose in extreme cases, but what i find is Dr gives you pills for a week, it will definitely take the edge off what your feeling, so now your not feeling great but a hell of a lot better than before, you want the pills now, they work.. Two weeks in and your going to feel withdrawal symptoms if you just stop, also 1 pill isn't enough now you've had to up the dose a bit and so it begins....

I did a psychology degree so it was precisely the risk of the above that made me so dead against any form of anti-depressant medication, plus the potential side effects and risks - especially associated with Prozac. I then had an anxiety disorder myself and have since spoken to many other sufferers since I have "been cured". In my experience, a lot of sufferers of anxiety disorders can't even get to the doctors in the first place. The thought of sitting in room and talking about this strange thing that's going on that they don't understand ironically gives them a panic attack. They carry on suffering in silence as they're too worried about going and if this happens, the anxiety can get worse, as they avoid doing more and more things. After they have finally got there, the thought of sitting in an hour long counselling session does likewise, just like the thought of a counsellor coming to see them at home. When you do go, sometimes the anxiety can be so bad that you spend the entire hour trying to fight a panic attack and so you don't really pay much attention to anything that is said. The session then becomes utterly pointless.

The anxiety itself can completely block a path to treatment and that is when I think medication can help. I was lucky, as I had a great support network around me and they were patient. I finally got the strength to go to doctors and then counsellors without medication. In fact I never took medication as I was against it in principle. Some people I know however, suffered alone with anxiety for up to ten years before they were in a position to be receptive to help. Others took medication and it made them strong enough to get counselling and then they came off the tablets and the counselling took over. Others were just completely against the idea of counselling and it was a choice of medication or continual anxiety, as they just didn't feel able to get over the anxiety themselves.

I continue to be against Meds as a first resort, but as a past anxiety sufferer who ended up on the floor with panic attacks so bad I couldn't physically stand up for hours at a time, if medicine feels like the only option for someone suffering from the problem then I can't sit here and say it is wrong for them to take it. It is a crutch and it masks the problem, but some people need that to give them the strength to try to methodically get over the anxiety. Some need it just to have a bit of a break from the flood of anxiety, depression and fear about their condition and to prepare the mind a bit more for treatment.

It is the doctor's responsibility to make sure everything has been explained, including alternative and less drastic modes of geting over the problem. They should then monitor it to try to ensure that your scenario doesn't happen and dependency doesn't creep in. You obviously have a wealth of experience and I don't mean to challenge that, but many people don't experience any problems with dependency. The obvious risk of it happening keeps me against the use of anti-depressant medication, but at the same time, I don't think that everyone using it ends up with a negative experience. Some people find it genuinely helpful.

I completely agree that pills alone are not enough to cure anxiety in the long term. The only long-term cure for anxiety is changing your thought patterns. CBT is obviously tailor made for this, as are other more general techniques based upon cognitive psychology and behaviourism.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 09:28:56 pm by liverbird_soph »
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Offline tinner777

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #150 on: January 25, 2010, 09:19:28 pm »
24/7 that sounds like exactly what I am like, to be perfectly honest. I have obsessive thoughts. They remain with me all day, every day for days at a time. Weeks, sometimes. "If I don't get into work at 8 today then I will fuck everything up." "If this letter has not been sent I will get sacked." "Even if everything is okay with x then y is going to fuck up and it will all just be terrible."

I count everything. Twice. Three times. if I see one For Sale sign on the way home I go to great lengths to count them all. It's a strange little compulsion but it helps to keep my mind occupied because if I have nothing to concentrate on then the feelings of dread return ("If I don't do this tomorrow I will get sacked" "If this letter has not gone I will get sacked"). It seems that the main focus of my irrational anxiety is work.

I know my thoughts are irrational. I know that is completely not normal to have physical panic attacks over a file; to have persistent dread over something that can, in all likelihood, be fixed. It's not normal to be so worked up over said file that you cannot remember your phone number, your pin number, the code to get in the front door with, yet I find myself in this state more and more, of late. I find myself waking up at 5am totally unable to get back to sleep because the dread is there again ("This time in four hours I will be at work and it will start all over again").

I don't know what to do. I don't now how to fix this. I can't take time off work to go to see a doctor because then I will panic that I have had time off work. I have no holidays. I don't even know what to say. I don't know how to explain anything without sounding totally off my head. How do I explain that I have repetitive thoughts, intrusive, obsessive, that I count everything, that I know that it is exactly 1345 steps from my bus stop to my house because I count it every day - that sometimes, just to make it a little bit more interesting, I count in twos because counting is so much easier than trying to deal with the file that might be wrong or the bill that might not have gone in.
gp saturday morning, lunchtime, after work? You need help, you owe it to yourself to get that help. Any close friends or family around? Can you talk to them? Could they help you get to the dr's?

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #151 on: January 25, 2010, 09:23:26 pm »
I don't know what to do. I don't now how to fix this. I can't take time off work to go to see a doctor because then I will panic that I have had time off work. I have no holidays. I don't even know what to say. I don't know how to explain anything without sounding totally off my head. How do I explain that I have repetitive thoughts, intrusive, obsessive, that I count everything, that I know that it is exactly 1345 steps from my bus stop to my house because I count it every day - that sometimes, just to make it a little bit more interesting, I count in twos because counting is so much easier than trying to deal with the file that might be wrong or the bill that might not have gone in.
Yup. Recognise that. It doesn't necessarily mean you actually have OCD (since I am not in a position to diagnose) but it's the first thing I thought of when reading your original post - as in, the anxiety is a result of the undiagnosed condition.

To answer your question, you explain it exactly how you just have. "I have certain thoughts that cause me to have certain consequential fears and yet I know it's irrational but it doesn't stop me getting anxious about it."

As for taking time off work, surely you are entitled to do so! You don't have to explain or justify it either. To minimise the impact on work and to reduce any subsequent anxiety you might feel, I would suggest you make the appointment for a time outside your normal working hours if possible. If not, then at the beginning or the end of the working day, if possible.

If your GP is near enough to work, you could do it at lunchtime - the important thing to remember is that you should be entitled to seek medical advice when required and you are not compelled to reveal why.

Fearing what might happen is a classic symptom and further justifies why an anxiety disorder like OCD is often called "the secret illness".

First step really - make an appointment and discuss it exactly how you have done here - if your GP is worth his/her degree then s/he will listen properly.

There is a very good information source for OCD, with additional information on other anxiety disorders, here - www.ocduk.org - look at the links on the left, scroll down to "Features" and read/download the "GP Visit Icebreaker" for tips.

I really hope your anxiety can be brought under control soon and that you receive the help and support required. Help is there.

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #152 on: January 25, 2010, 09:31:28 pm »
I did a psychology degree so it was precisely the risk of the above that made me so dead against any form of anti-depressant medication, plus the potential side effects and risks - especially associated with Prozac. I then had an anxiety disorder myself and have since spoken to many other sufferers since I have "been cured". In my experience, a lot of sufferers of anxiety disorders can't even get to the doctors in the first place. The thought of sitting in room and talking about this strange thing that's going on that they don't understand ironically gives them a panic attack. They carry on suffering in silence as they're too worried about going and if this happens, the anxiety can get worse, as they avoid doing more and more things. After they have finally got there, the thought of sitting in an hour long counselling session does likewise, just like the thought of a counsellor coming to see them at home. When you do go, sometimes the anxiety can be so bad that you spend the entire hour trying to fight a panic attack and so you don't really pay much attention to anything that is said. The session then becomes utterly pointless.

The anxiety itself can completely block a path to treatment and that is when I think medication can help. I was lucky, as I had a great support network around me and they were patient. I finally got the strength to go to doctors and then counsellors without medication. In fact I never took medication as I was against it in principle. Some people I know however, suffered alone with anxiety for up to ten years before they were in a position to be receptive to help. Others took medication and it made them strong enough to get counselling and then they came off the tablets and the counselling took over. Others were just completely against the idea of counselling and it was a choice of medication or continual anxiety, as they just didn't feel able to get over the anxiety themselves.

I continue to be dead against Meds on principle, but as a past anxiety sufferer who ended up on the floor with panic attacks so bad I couldn't physically stand up for hours at a time, if medicine feels like the only option for someone suffering from the problem then I can't sit here and say it is wrong for them to take it. It is a crutch and it masks the problem, but some people need that to give them the stregth to try to methodically get over the anxiety.

It is the doctor's responsibility to make sure everything has been explained, including alternative and less drastic modes of geting over the problem. They should then monitor it to try to ensure that your scenario doesn't happen and dependency doesn't creep in. You obviously have a wealth of experience and I don't mean to challenge that, but many people don't experience any problems with dependency. The obvious risk of it happening keeps me against the use of anti-depressant medication, but at the same time, I don't think that everyone using it ends up with a negative experience. Some people find it genuinely helpful.

I completely agree that it is not enough to cure anxiety in the long term. The only long-term cure for anxiety is changing your thought patterns. CBT is obviously tailor made for this, as are other more general techniques based upon cognitive psychology and behaviourism.

Sorry don't think of me being solidly anti meds, in my current work place benzodiazepine's are king, the number of people who come from Gps on massive amounts of diazepam is sickening. People walking out of the unit because we tell we're going to have to reduce your meds is amazing.  I suppose i should qualify that by explaining that you could be waiting over a year for a referral to a half decent counselor. Also challenge away mate its how we learn from each other  ;)

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #153 on: January 25, 2010, 09:41:26 pm »
Quote
"I have certain thoughts that cause me to have certain consequential fears and yet I know it's irrational but it doesn't stop me getting anxious about it."


Is exactly me on some areas of my life.
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Offline liverbird_soph

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #154 on: January 25, 2010, 09:56:24 pm »
Daranoza, Soph, Dr Cornwallis, anyone else who has anxiety or OCD or anything similar - are you in the Merseyside area and looking for some help? I can point you in the right directions as I have family in the mental health profession.

---------------

If anyone reading this thread is thinking "OhmygodthatsoundslikemeImusthaveOCD!" or something like that, and you are pretty certain that there is a problem that requires diagnosis, then go to your GP. Be open about what you're going through and request a referral to someone who can come to a proper diagnosis (not all GPs will be able to recognise an anxiety disorder for what it is, whereas others might - so it's sometimes useful to ask the question - many GPs will know a little about a wide range of psychiatric conditions but few will be in a position of any expertise).

Sometimes half the problem is discussing it. You'd be amazed at the sense of relief you get just sharing and realising you are not the only one who has those thoughts. I used to think I was the only one who thought some of the things I do and it was scary! There is a good reason why OCD (for example) is often called "the secret illness" - and General Anxiety Disorder is in the same spectrum.

Just a quick word on pills - I was dead against them too but when I was at my most anxious, the psych told me that I needed something to reduce the anxiety so that my mind would be more open to the idea of talking the problems through in a therapy environment. Many pills (such as SSRIs) take time to have any real effect - but they should really be seen as part of a combination treatment and not a solution.

If you are prescribed something, discuss what it is, why it's being taken, what the medication is to be used in conjuction with (don't just accept pills, make them give a treatment plan as well), discuss openly any known side-effects. Long term use will most often lead to increased doses - and then there's the comedown when stopping them. Medication should be phased out as well as phased in - and always in conjunction with some form of therapy.


Thanks very much for the offer of help. I went through my anxiety disorder six years ago and have been fortunate enough to come out of the other side now. I'll always have slight nerves here and there in extreme situations, but I no longer suffer from anxiety in general.

When I was ill I had Panic Disorder. The fear of fear! I had panic attacks and they developed into a full blown anxiety disorder. I began to have panic attacks about the chance of having panic attacks in front of people or in public places..which of course then triggered panic attacks in public places etc and off we went in endless circles. It was made worse by my history of fainting with no warning, so my fear of fainting during a panic attack wasn't completely irrational. (In actual fact though it is very rare to faint during panic, as your adrenaline races which prevents the body from shutting down.) It also became even more tough to get through due to the fear you begin to have about what's happening to you in general and the feeling of hopelessness and depression. You begin to feel as though you're drowning in anxiety and the anxiety crops up in your thoughts so much that it becomes suffocating. I remember feeling that I would never ever get better. The panic attacks got so bad and frequent that I became agorophobic for a while. Couldn't even leave the house to walk down the road. My family helped to get me to the doctors and a counsellor and I slowly began to get over it, step by step.

I'd say I'm as 'fully cured' as possible now. I may not enjoy a flight to Australia, but my "normal life" isn't affected in any way anymore. My heart goes out to every sufferer of any form of anxiety disorder - and that isn't meant to sound patronising. It's genuine, as I know full well it's hell. It is possible to get over the anxiety though, you're not stuck with this for the rest of your life - even if it seems that way.

You're post included some great points 24/7.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 10:07:41 pm by liverbird_soph »
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Offline liverbird_soph

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #155 on: January 25, 2010, 10:04:17 pm »
Sorry don't think of me being solidly anti meds, in my current work place benzodiazepine's are king, the number of people who come from Gps on massive amounts of diazepam is sickening. People walking out of the unit because we tell we're going to have to reduce your meds is amazing.  I suppose i should qualify that by explaining that you could be waiting over a year for a referral to a half decent counselor. Also challenge away mate its how we learn from each other  ;)

It makes me very angry that a lot of GPs don't properly understand anxiety and just try to throw strong medication at people - often telling them it's the only cure. I can fully imagine the situation that you are describing! As I have described, I think there is a definite place for it - especially in combination with counselling. It is strong stuff though and so I believe it should be administered with a lot more care and proper thought by doctors.

A full discussion should take place with patients before tablets are prescribed. Much too often, doctors don't have this discussion.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 10:12:14 pm by liverbird_soph »
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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #156 on: January 26, 2010, 01:07:52 pm »
Hi all just a few words....


Sometimes half the problem is discussing it. You'd be amazed at the sense of relief you get just sharing and realising you are not the only one who has those thoughts. I used to think I was the only one who thought some of the things I do and it was scary! There is a good reason why OCD (for example) is often called "the secret illness" - and General Anxiety Disorder is in the same spectrum.



That's very true. I've been walking around with it, keeping it to myself and never really talked about it with anyone. Afraid they would judge me, think I'm a loon, or make me do things I'm not ready for (going on vacation or seek prof help etc.)
A few months back when the anxiety was really badly triggered with me, I started talking about it. That actually got me to some sort of plan and motivation to get better.
I'm taking it step by step and try to enjoy the progress I make. I'm far from being ok, but I'm also far from the state I was in a few months back.


When I was ill I had Panic Disorder. The fear of fear! I had panic attacks and they developed into a full blown anxiety disorder. I began to have panic attacks about the chance of having panic attacks in front of people or in public places..which of course then triggered panic attacks in public places etc and off we went in endless circles. It was made worse by my history of fainting with no warning, so my fear of fainting during a panic attack wasn't completely irrational. (In actual fact though it is very rare to faint during panic, as your adrenaline races which prevents the body from shutting down.) It also became even more tough to get through due to the fear you begin to have about what's happening to you in general and the feeling of hopelessness and depression. You begin to feel as though you're drowning in anxiety and the anxiety crops up in your thoughts so much that it becomes suffocating. I remember feeling that I would never ever get better. The panic attacks got so bad and frequent that I became agorophobic for a while. Couldn't even leave the house to walk down the road. My family helped to get me to the doctors and a counsellor and I slowly began to get over it, step by step.


That is totally how I feel. Though I think I've left that worst state of anxiety behind me now. It's that I have a real fear of losing control. Through my life I've been in too many situations where I didn't have control or was too afraid to take control of the situation. And that makes me want to always have control, over me and my environment. I now have to learn that having control over what I do or can do is enough, that I don't have to have control on everything else (since I can't have that). 
It's step by step process, and sometimes a step back. But looking back on the last few months made me realise I can get better and I have the power to do so. (Now I just have to do it.. ).
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Offline liverbird_soph

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #157 on: January 26, 2010, 02:44:39 pm »
That is totally how I feel. Though I think I've left that worst state of anxiety behind me now. It's that I have a real fear of losing control. Through my life I've been in too many situations where I didn't have control or was too afraid to take control of the situation. And that makes me want to always have control, over me and my environment. I now have to learn that having control over what I do or can do is enough, that I don't have to have control on everything else (since I can't have that). 
It's step by step process, and sometimes a step back. But looking back on the last few months made me realise I can get better and I have the power to do so. (Now I just have to do it.. ).

So glad to hear you sound positive and feeling more in control of the situation. Doesn't surprise me at all that your problems have been similar to mine, as we seem to have many similarities. Problems in the past with hormones/fainting, our first panic attack being in the form of claustrophobia. (Mine happened in a psychology lecture funnily enough. I was sat right in the middle of the room with rows in front of me, behind me, lots of people either side and doors at the front of the room. I suddenly felt the warning signs of a faint and thought "I can't get out. I think I'm going to faint and I cannot get out of this room without making a scene."  Panic attack then followed and stayed until the end of the lecture.)

When panic is linked to feeling that you are going to pass out, one of the best things you can do is to try to get your body as healthy as possible so that you don't feel that risk anymore. If you can sit and say that there is no real reason why you should faint, then the risk of it happening therefore becomes a little less frightening. Go to a doctor who is sympathetic and thorough and have your general heath tested. If there are problems then devise a plan with your doctor to try to get over them or get them to a state of being as healthy as possible.

A couple of other tips for avoiding dizzy spells and decreasing anxiety in general:

* Avoid coffee, energy drinks and alcohol. All are stimulants and not only will they make it difficult to sleep, they can also put your body in a state that you will confuse with an anxiety attack. Whereas caffeine traditionally makes people more alert, people with anxiety could notice feeling a slight change and immediately associate that with anxiety and fear an attack coming on. Caffeine can also stimulate real anxiety.

* B6, B12, Magnesium and Zinc are all good natural supplements for decreasing anxiety and depression. B vitamins also regulate your hormones, leaving you less prone to highs and lows. A good balanced diet obviously covers these things, but supplements could also be helpful. I take Vitamin B and Magnesium and I feel noticably better when taking them. Talk to a doctor if you are at all concerned taking supplements or want reassurance about their uses.

* Foods such as nuts, seeds, chicken, milk, salmon and bananas have all been proven to have a calming influence. Perhaps when you go out take some nuts or seeds with you. If you are prone to fainting or panic attacks, always have some food with you wherever you go. (natural rather than chocolate bars etc) It will not only raise your blood sugar when you feel you need a bit of help, it will be calming to know you have something that would make you feel better with you.

*Don't cut out all carbohydrates. There are so many "no carbs" diets out there and whilst they may work when it comes to losing weight, they can also cause depression and anxiety. I started Atkins during my anxiety disorder and my disorder got so much worse during this time. When I mentioned it to a counsellor, she said she had noticed an increasing number of patients were coming in who happened to be following no carb diets. Anxiety and depression are linked to a drop in serotonin levels drop in the brain. Sugary carbohydrates like starch, white bread, white flower, cakes, crisps etc drop seratonin levels further, but good carbohydrates such as brown bread, vegetables, brown rice, cous cous, wholemeal flower etc all raise seratonin levels up to a healthier level.

* Avoid sugar crashes. A balanced diet in general is important for any anxiety sufferer. Everybody can be vulnerable to sugar highs or crashes, not just diabetics. These can make you feel faint, tired, anxious and/or depressed. If you eat a lot of sugary foods, your sugar levels in your body will understandably increase. However, if this happens suddenly, they will then counter and crash to a low. The same happens vice versa if you starve the body and then suddenly eat. Try to eat several small meals in the day, based upon healthy foods and as many natural foods as possible, as opposed to processed. This will hopefully keep your sugar levels more balanced and so your mood will be more even. The GI diet is often suggested for anxiety sufferers so perhaps go and look it up. Avoid foods marketed as low fat, unless you have checked their sugar quantity. Many of these things contain lots of hidden sugar to make up for this lack of fat. Not good.

* Drink lots of water - dehydration can cause anxiety crashes/a low mood.

* Get plenty of sleep. Not easy when you're anxious - I used to stay awake until 4am every morning. It wasn't just the anxiety itself, I think I was trying to put off the next day. Perhaps try stuff like hot baths beforehand or lavendar oils. Jazmine is also calming. Go to bed when you feel tired. Even if it's 8pm; if your body feels tired then go to bed and try to sleep. If you lay awake worrying at night for hours, get up and do something different. Don't just lay and think. Get up and leave the room, watch some TV or read and then half an hour later go back and try to sleep again.

* Exercise, exercise, exercise. Helps so much! Do videos at home if you are stretched for time or go on power walks with a friend or with an ipod.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2010, 02:54:02 pm by liverbird_soph »
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Offline dutch_red

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #158 on: January 26, 2010, 03:00:13 pm »
So glad to hear you sound positive and feeling more in control of the situation. Doesn't surprise me at all that your problems have been similar to mine, as we seem to have many similarities. Problems in the past with hormones/fainting, our first panic attack being in the form of claustrophobia. (Mine happened in a psychology lecture funnily enough. I was sat right in the middle of the room with rows in front of me, behind me, lots of people either side and doors at the front of the room. I suddenly felt the warning signs of a faint and thought "I can't get out. I think I'm going to faint and I cannot get out of this room without making a scene."  Panic attack then followed and stayed until the end of the lecture.)

When panic is linked to feeling that you are going to pass out, one of the best things you can do is to try to get your body as healthy as possible so that you don't feel that risk anymore. If you can sit and say that there is no real reason why you should faint, then the risk of it happening therefore becomes a little less frightening. Go to a doctor who is sympathetic and thorough and have your general heath tested. If there are problems then devise a plan with your doctor to try to get over them or get them to a state of being as healthy as possible.

A couple of other tips for avoiding dizzy spells and decreasing anxiety in general:

* Avoid coffee, energy drinks and alcohol. All are stimulants and not only will they make it difficult to sleep, they can also put your body in a state that you will confuse with an anxiety attack. Whereas caffeine traditionally makes people more alert, people with anxiety could notice feeling a slight change and immediately associate that with anxiety and fear an attack coming on. Caffeine can also stimulate real anxiety.

* B6, B12, Magnesium and Zinc are all good natural supplements for decreasing anxiety and depression. B vitamins also regulate your hormones, leaving you less prone to highs and lows. A good balanced diet obviously covers these things, but supplements could also be helpful. I take Vitamin B and Magnesium and I feel noticably better when taking them. Talk to a doctor if you are at all concerned taking supplements or want reassurance about their uses.

* Foods such as nuts, seeds, chicken, milk, salmon and bananas have all been proven to have a calming influence. Perhaps when you go out take some nuts or seeds with you. If you are prone to fainting or panic attacks, always have some food with you wherever you go. (natural rather than chocolate bars etc) It will not only raise your blood sugar when you feel you need a bit of help, it will be calming to know you have something that would make you feel better with you.

*Don't cut out all carbohydrates. There are so many "no carbs" diets out there and whilst they may work when it comes to losing weight, they can also cause depression and anxiety. I started Atkins during my anxiety disorder and my disorder got so much worse during this time. When I mentioned it to a counsellor, she said she had noticed an increasing number of patients were coming in who happened to be following no carb diets. Anxiety and depression are linked to a drop in serotonin levels drop in the brain. Sugary carbohydrates like starch, white bread, white flower, cakes, crisps etc drop seratonin levels further, but good carbohydrates such as brown bread, vegetables, brown rice, cous cous, wholemeal flower etc all raise seratonin levels up to a healthier level.

* Avoid sugar crashes. A balanced diet in general is important for any anxiety sufferer. Everybody can be vulnerable to sugar highs or crashes, not just diabetics. These can make you feel faint, tired, anxious and/or depressed. If you eat a lot of sugary foods, your sugar levels in your body will understandably increase. However, if this happens suddenly, they will then counter and crash to a low. The same happens vice versa if you starve the body and then suddenly eat. Try to eat several small meals in the day, based upon healthy foods and as many natural foods as possible, as opposed to processed. This will hopefully keep your sugar levels more balanced and so your mood will be more even. The GI diet is often suggested for anxiety sufferers so perhaps go and look it up. Avoid foods marketed as low fat, unless you have checked their sugar quantity. Many of these things contain lots of hidden sugar to make up for this lack of fat. Not good.

* Drink lots of water - dehydration can cause anxiety crashes/a low mood.

* Get plenty of sleep. Not easy when you're anxious - I used to stay awake until 4am every morning. It wasn't just the anxiety itself, I think I was trying to put off the next day. Perhaps try stuff like hot baths beforehand or lavendar oils. Jazmine is also calming. Go to bed when you feel tired. Even if it's 8pm; if your body feels tired then go to bed and try to sleep. If you lay awake worrying at night for hours, get up and do something different. Don't just lay and think. Get up and leave the room, watch some TV or read and then half an hour later go back and try to sleep again.

* Exercise, exercise, exercise. Helps so much! Do videos at home if you are stretched for time or go on power walks with a friend or with an ipod.

So many useful tips in there and seem easy to implement in my life. I will get to them!!

I already use magnesium supplements (I'm allergic to nuts and chocolate, source of magnesium) when I feel really low. Usually for about a week, and then I'm fine again. It's just like an extra boost.
I'm addicted to cola/caffeine, which sometimes is pretty much the only thing I drink. But I'm really trying to cut that down. I'm already on half the amount of caffeine drinks, than i was a few months ago.
I will look into the other vitamins, and see if I can put some extra of them in my daily foods.
Realism is the denial of reality
and
Imigination the means to explore reality

©Corneille

Offline Dr Cornwallis

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Re: Anxiety - anyone else suffer from it?
« Reply #159 on: January 26, 2010, 03:07:06 pm »
I've just PM'd 24/7, but I just want to pass on a similar effort to everyone else regarding PM's.
My office is always open.

Here's a short list of my fears, think of this not as 'compare the meerkat' but 'compare the mentalist.com'.  If you think that i can share your worries then let me know, I'd be happy to.

Fears:  Heart attack, stroke, fainting, flipping out and stabbing someone in the fucking eye with a frozen carrot (or similar objects).

List of times these things have happened:  0

Years suffered:  Approximately 9

Drugs taken:  Seroxat (9 years ish...)  Fucking tell me about it...

Job:  Local Authority desk jockey


:)