Author Topic: Thanks from all Juventus fans  (Read 11428 times)

Offline the-lightning

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Thanks from all Juventus fans
« on: December 10, 2009, 10:55:01 pm »
dunno if it's the right section to put this, but regarding the decision of stopping yesterday's equivocal mosaic, i wanted to report to you and S.O.S. members, many Juve fans' appreciation for that gesture.
For us it was very important, and we want to thank all the Liverpool fans for the understanding shown. Just give us time to write and to find the right words. For the moment, thanks from all the Juventus fans.

 :wave
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 10:56:47 pm by the-lightning »

Offline exiledintheUSA

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2009, 11:03:02 pm »
Ringraziarla.
Been all over the world but Anfield is still my home.

Offline GinKop

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2009, 11:29:30 pm »
Good of you to say so.

The simple fact is from what I've read into it, the rivalry between your club and the viola is something we don't want to get tangled up in.

God knows why the club were planning a mosaic, I guess it was through ignorance like most of us were under about the reported intentions of our "twinning".

Maybe we'll meet in the Europa league and the reds and the bianconeri can build some relations between the two of Europe's biggest clubs.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 11:38:07 pm by GinKop »
JFT96

Offline Filler.

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2009, 11:56:02 pm »
I didn't know that a mosaic was planned at all for the Fiorentina match. It just seems a bizarre idea. Very pleased it didn't happen.

I read the letter from orgogliogobbo.it and I'll keep my thoughts to myself on it, but the thought of having Meno 39 on the back of a Liverpool shirt is hard to fathom frankly.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2009, 12:03:59 am by Filler. »

Offline dannymc

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2009, 04:51:36 am »
it was wrong to do in many ways.

and im sure not all juve fans aren't thanking us but still displaying hillsborough banners at there games, etc.

how the club prepared that with what happened with the Florence banner was a joke.
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Offline CaribKing

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2009, 04:58:42 am »
Cercate di non soffermarsi sul dolore e dagli errori del passato, ma piuttosto dobbiamo abbracciare un futuro di amore e di pace, di comprensione e di perdono. Buon modo per mio fratello.

Siamo tutti uno. Il calcio Ť la nostra passione... :wave
« Last Edit: December 11, 2009, 05:02:45 am by CaribKing »
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Offline DaveCharlie

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2009, 06:43:06 am »
See you in the Europa League, we are looking forward to welcoming Momo back to Anfield - hopefully in the Semi-Finals!

Offline Jack the Red

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2009, 08:37:15 am »
Cercate di non soffermarsi sul dolore e dagli errori del passato, ma piuttosto dobbiamo abbracciare un futuro di amore e di pace, di comprensione e di perdono. Buon modo per mio fratello.

Siamo tutti uno. Il calcio Ť la nostra passione... :wave

Translation:

"Tried not to stop itself on the pain and from the errors of the past, but rather we must embrace a future of love and peace, understanding and forgiveness. Good way for my brother. We are all one. Soccer is our passion"

Nice words. I hope we meet Juve in the Europa and have a great night at Anfield, and over there. YNWA.

Offline Sat1

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2009, 09:36:48 am »
Missed this. What was the mosaic planned for?

Offline Helsinki Red

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2009, 10:16:28 am »
Missed this. What was the mosaic planned for?

Offline HiroProtagonist

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2009, 10:18:24 am »
What's this mosaic I've been hearing about? Can anyone explain?

Offline No666

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2009, 10:19:38 am »

Offline Farman

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2009, 10:22:39 am »
dunno if it's the right section to put this, but regarding the decision of stopping yesterday's equivocal mosaic, i wanted to report to you and S.O.S. members, many Juve fans' appreciation for that gesture.
For us it was very important, and we want to thank all the Liverpool fans for the understanding shown. Just give us time to write and to find the right words. For the moment, thanks from all the Juventus fans.

 :wave

I'm glad this was noticed. Stopping something of that size (some 12,000 pieces) at that late stage was quite a big decision, especially when it had been publicised by the club.

Maybe Juve fans would have prefered something more explicit, but it would have been difficult given the time and would have created friction with Fiorentina which would have been undesirable, regardless of some of their fans' intentions.

So I'm glad the gesture was noticed and appreciated.
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Offline SwedenRed

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2009, 10:25:36 am »
How was this reported in Italy?

Offline AmoLiverpool

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2009, 11:37:39 am »
How was this reported in Italy?
I think that only a few people know about the mosaic.
There was a news about the mosaic in a Fiorentina fan website (www.fiorentina.it).

I think that the cancellation of the mosaic is known by few people.. and I am one of them..
Personally I'm sad for that..

Because I was very proud of the 'twinning', and I was really happy to meet fans like you.
Probably you're thinking in a different way..

No problem  :)

I'll continue to be a fan of my colours, and I'll continue to follow Reds and the Kop.

SwedenRed. I remember that you came here for Fiorentina - Liverpool. And you spent a nice journey.
Tell to Liverpool fans how we support the team, and if we sing about Heysel.

I want to say you one thing.
I'm only a fan. I'm not an ultra or a member of any organization.

Mr 'the-lightining' is the spokesman of an Italian Juventus forum.
The members of the forum organize the interventions of 'the-lightining' and now they got their objectives.
Congratulations  ;)

Now I have to say goodbye.
YNWA
 

Offline the-lightning

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2009, 05:27:47 pm »
Tell to Liverpool fans how we support the team, and if we sing about Heysel.

you're asked tu put your humbug elsewhere.
this topic is only meant to show appreciation to Reds fans and SOS members.

ps. i ain't anybody's spokesman
« Last Edit: December 11, 2009, 05:29:41 pm by the-lightning »


Offline the-lightning

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2009, 05:47:50 pm »
How was this reported in Italy?

no report.

mainly because the mosaic hadn't really been publicized in Italy.

Offline James B

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2009, 05:49:03 pm »
:)

Is there a Juventus forum where this matter is being discussed? I wouldn't mind a little browse.

Offline firing squad

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2009, 06:17:34 pm »
slightly off topic but what the hell... I love Fiorentina,along with Livorno(but mainly Livorno tho) are my favorite Italian team and I'll be cheering them on in CL this season.
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Offline the-lightning

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2009, 06:20:56 pm »
:)

Is there a Juventus forum where this matter is being discussed? I wouldn't mind a little browse.

yes. on the biggest Juve forum the raleted topic passed the 100 pages.

not sure if it's allowed to put external forum links here, so i send you a PM.

(and obviously i suppose you know perfectly italian  ;D )

Offline firing squad

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2009, 06:22:14 pm »
yes. on the biggest Juve forum the raleted topic passed the 100 pages.

not sure if it's allowed to put external forum links here, so i send you a PM.

(and obviously i suppose you know perfectly italian  ;D )
post the link here mate.
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Offline James B

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2009, 06:22:58 pm »
(and obviously i suppose you know perfectly italian  ;D )
My Italian is nowhere near as good as your English unfortunately ;)


Offline alonsoisared

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2009, 06:32:02 pm »
Very strange situation, I think we made the right call to cancel the mosaic because of the controversy it would cause but Juventus are no angels. If Fiorentina want to be good to us, excellent and i'm sure our fans will return the compliment, however it's more than a little bit suspicious that Fiorentina supposedly love us so much just because of our fans and our success in European competition.

All in all i'm just glad we can put this behind us.

Offline the-lightning

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2009, 06:41:24 pm »
Perfect Juve style. Congratulations again

what's the part of the sentence "don't mess with this topic" you don't get?  ???

Offline James B

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2009, 06:44:40 pm »
AmoLiverpool and the-lighting could end up in a flare throwing match soon...

Offline AmoLiverpool

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2009, 07:01:53 pm »
No problem. I stop here.
I just answered to a question and to the post which refers to me.
I don't want to bother you and I don't want to trouble the-lightning.

I would show you only the plans behind the 'open letter' and how they treat me.
I would only bring around my opinions.

Good bye
YNWA

Offline horne

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2009, 01:07:58 am »
i suggest that italian football fans are twenty years behind the times.For a nation of people who are immaculately dressed with the most upto date fashions and culture,they havnt grasped the idea that hooliganism is old fashioned,something that used to happen in the seventies and eightees in britain,but now is out of date.
the new fashion ,well twenty years on,is to respect other fans who are decent fans,and put the enjoyment of making friends and the love of football ,ahead of the out of date hooliganism.
its better to make friends and show respect,than to kick anothers arse or stab him in the leg with a knife when the other guy isn't looking,and run away like a rabbit in the head lights....i suggest that you both grow up and spread the word?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2009, 01:46:23 am by horne »
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Offline DangerScouse

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2009, 01:10:11 am »
i suggest that italian football fans are twenty years behind the times.For a nation of people who are immaculately dressed with the most upto date fashions and culture,they havnt grasped the idea that hooliganism is old fashioned,something that used to happen in the seventies and eightees in britain,but now is out of date.
the new fashion ,well twenty years on,is to respect other fans who are decent fans,and put the enjoyment of making freinds and football ahead of the out of date hooliganism.
its better to make freinds and show respect,than to kick anothers arse or stab him in the leg with a knife when the other guy isnt looking,and run away like a rabbit in the head kights....i suggest that you both grow up and spread the word?

Let's not forget racism is still rife in Italian football aswell.

Offline horne

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2009, 01:12:34 am »
well i dont think there is an excuse for it myself....if it is racially driven,once again,they need to grow up.
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Offline Redsnappa

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2009, 02:36:03 am »
From the Juve Forum link up the page...

Mods, please delete if it's published elsewhere, but I hadn't seen this before and it may well explain the reasons behind all these Ultra politics. There is also an explanation of the refusal by some to accept our offer of friendship and apology at the Anfield CL game....



PUBBLIC LETTER TO LIVERPOOL FANS


Hello, I'm writing to you on behalf of thousands of Juve fans; this is the first time we contact you after 24 years. Distance between us remains massive since we never talked after the Heysel tragedy despite more than 24 years have now gone by. Maybe without this perverse "twinning" we'd have not contacted you but in life nothing is still therefore we take the opportunity to let you know our opinion on this "twinning" and how the viola fans had used it against us during the match we played against fiorentina three weeks ago, and, above all, how they will always use it in the future. Of course you are free to befriend whoever you want, and we are definitely not asking you to give up this friendship, but we want you to be aware that since the first day that we aknowledged the intention of the viola ultras (because the idea came from them, not from shirters) to set up this "twinning" with you guys, it has been clear to us that the main reason, I'm not saying the only one - even if it's very likely, was the Heysel night. Since that awful night in 1985 every match we played against fiorentina was the time for chants and banners cheering that night. We are used to it and I personally don't even care, they do that as some of us do the same with the death of their former President or with the Arno flooding and the Superga tragedy. This is the way ultras behave and I'm not in the position to change some of my people's morality. However no juventus fan could ever deny the from our terraces these songs are sung, even if by a minority.
Viola ultras are clearly lying to you, all fiorentina ultras sing those songs. It's not a minority, as some of you said before, it is a majority, the same that arrived three weeks ago in Torino wearing liverpool jerseys with MENO (MINUS) 39 on the back and singing the usual array of songs cheering the deaths of 39 innocent people. Those shirts were made and those songs were sung by the same ultras that now are saying that the reasons for this "twinning" are pure and sincere. Itís a fucking blatant lie. Now that the real reasons for this "twinning" are coming out of the shell here in Italy they are trying to deny what it's been so clear to all ultras in Italy, not only to us. For once, only once, the viola should be brave and admit what was really behind it.
As I mentioned earlier it's obvious that there still is a huge distance between us mainly because your hools, the real responsible for what happened, never looked for forgiveness, if not few of them in private and only 20 years later (forgiveness that was by the way refused by Otello Lorentini - president of the association of the victims of Heysel - just before our encounter in 2005). Not only, the majority of them still say that they were attacked by Juve fans and that they only defended themselves. With these people there could not be any dialogue, only hate, forever and ever.
At the same time it is also very true that younger Liverpool fans have always seen the Heysel tragedy as a huge soft spot, something to be really ashamed for and even feeling guilty for something they have not commited. And it's also very true that during recent years it was them who actually did more than anybody else to remember the victims and show them the due respect.
Back in 2005 when you offered us friendship, many of us didn't accept it also because we felt it was one of those UEFA plans to make football look good... We just didn't believe it was genuine.
For the above mentioned issues, of course there's still a lot of rage from our side and it's not even easy just to write to you, not to mention full forgiveness, at least without important gestures from your side. At least not before looking at each other's eyes after so many years. At least not after full awareness of the true story of what happened that night. It will be very difficult for you and us to come close until there are still people on your side that are happy for what happened.
However this is the real chance to start this process. Should you make a historic gesture towards our victims I'm sure this would not go unnoticed by the majority of our supporters. After a tragedy like the one we suffered of course this process will take a long time but something has to be done sooner or later and this gesture may well be a beginning.
It's obvious that viola fans are now coming out with silly excuses for those above mentioned jerseys, for the liverpool scarves shown and the songs "we love liverpool" sung at our faces during our last encounter. We know that a doubt has already appeared in some of you about the real nature of this "twinning". We advise you to test the viola fans before your match against them at Anfield. Ask them to join you in a display of respect towards the victims of Heysel, maybe with a banner held together by you and the viola ultras (the CAV, collettivo autonomo viola), not the shirters, they would have no problem in joining you, but the ultras, the real masterminds behind this "twinning" with you guys. Ask them to show respect and take distances from that horrible jersey they were wearing during our last encounter with them. Ask them to give you a strong signal that this "twinning" is sincere and not based on the Heysel tragedy.
We are not loved by anyone in Italy, as it happens everywhere with winning clubs, however all italian ultras agree on the real reasons behind this friendship and condemned the hypocrisy shown by Italian media portraing it as a finally mature behaviour by some Italian ultras despite being well aware of the real reasons behind it. And they despise the viola ultras for denying the truth. Ultras may be bad in a lot of ways but they don't lie. They are honest and brave. They don't like cowards lying in order to let a wrong message come through. And this is clearly the case.
In conclusion, we don't ask you to do anything, but if you really care to come closer to us test the viola ultras. If we are right they will never accept and you know that they only wanted to use you. If we are wrong at least you'll be sure about the reasons of this "twinning". We'll be watching and we'll draw our conclusions. But if you really want to come closer to us starting a pattern of dialogue this is THE chance. Ther won't be others so clear and easy to approach.
www.orgogliogobbo.it

Offline AmoLiverpool

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2009, 04:51:21 am »
i suggest that italian football fans are twenty years behind the times.For a nation of people who are immaculately dressed with the most upto date fashions and culture,they havnt grasped the idea that hooliganism is old fashioned,something that used to happen in the seventies and eightees in britain,but now is out of date.
the new fashion ,well twenty years on,is to respect other fans who are decent fans,and put the enjoyment of making friends and the love of football ,ahead of the out of date hooliganism.
its better to make friends and show respect,than to kick anothers arse or stab him in the leg with a knife when the other guy isn't looking,and run away like a rabbit in the head lights....i suggest that you both grow up and spread the word?
I totally agree you.
I speak for myself, but I believe the same things.
I love my team, and I respect everyone. Obviously I have my likes and dislikes, but I respect everyone!!
And it seems that the way to support the team from Fiorentina fans is very similar.

They support our team, and they don't make trouble.
This means cowardice from the point of view of the other group of italian ultras, so they call us as CAV (main group of Fiorentina fans) = POLICE. This is the reason they define us as wicked.


p.s.
It seems that a my post that I wrote (with some difficulty  :( )  this evening was deleted.
I don't know the reason, because I wrote the truth and I quoted real post on j1897network.
Delete post without reason is a perfect fascist measure, and I would know who take the decision and his motivation.
Thanks.

I don't tell lies.
I quote real things and someone delete them...

Offline the-lightning

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2009, 10:47:07 am »
please let's keep the topic subject.

there's the thread "serie A" in the general football section where we can discuss all of the racist or ultras matters.

so just leave this topic for what it was meant for ...

Offline nocturnalvin

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2009, 11:06:03 am »
The funny thing is.... in this particular situation, we are like the popular fella in high school and everybody wants to be our friend.

Honestly, at least Fiorentina fans didn't turn their backs on us.

Offline the-lightning

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2009, 11:10:33 am »
I'm glad this was noticed. Stopping something of that size (some 12,000 pieces) at that late stage was quite a big decision, especially when it had been publicised by the club.

Maybe Juve fans would have prefered something more explicit, but it would have been difficult given the time and would have created friction with Fiorentina which would have been undesirable, regardless of some of their fans' intentions.

So I'm glad the gesture was noticed and appreciated.

it was indeed.

i hope there'll be a step ahead from everybody ...

Offline James B

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2009, 11:19:20 am »
AmoLiverpool, do you by any chance know what the 'CAV Polizia' banner on the Kop on wednesday night was referring to?

Offline the-lightning

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2009, 11:24:01 am »
The funny thing is.... in this particular situation, we are like the popular fella in high school and everybody wants to be our friend.

Honestly, at least Fiorentina fans didn't turn their backs on us.

everybody makes mistakes, but time and facts help out to put a remedy.

i have my personal opinion about ultras background but that's not the place to explain it.

the point is that now the whole Juve fan base, mainly the ultras groups, appreciated that gesture as a respect act about those deads and that tragedy, and are thanking for that.
no strings attached

Offline James B

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2009, 11:29:26 am »
A lot of Liverpool fans in this thread need to stop acting so self righteous.

i suggest that italian football fans are twenty years behind the times.For a nation of people who are immaculately dressed with the most upto date fashions and culture,they havnt grasped the idea that hooliganism is old fashioned,something that used to happen in the seventies and eightees in britain,but now is out of date.
the new fashion ,well twenty years on,is to respect other fans who are decent fans,and put the enjoyment of making friends and the love of football ,ahead of the out of date hooliganism.
its better to make friends and show respect,than to kick anothers arse or stab him in the leg with a knife when the other guy isn't looking,and run away like a rabbit in the head lights....i suggest that you both grow up and spread the word?

Does hooliganism not go on in Britain today then? The only reason there is a lot less of it here nowadays is because of the high level of policing.

I dont like Juventus and never did! I regularly watch Serie A matches and there are (sometimes - Juventus and Lazio are good at it) racist chants but this match... got me Fcking....mad!!! Ffs he's only 19 and born and raised as an italian but still....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgm__BPqE_E

Does anyone understand what they're singing from 19-30 secs?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqIspdvA1WQ&feature=related

I've seen plenty of racists at Anfield too, sadly.

Offline nocturnalvin

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Re: Thanks from all Juventus fans
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2009, 11:33:11 am »
everybody makes mistakes, but time and facts help out to put a remedy.

i have my personal opinion about ultras background but that's not the place to explain it.

the point is that now the whole Juve fan base, mainly the ultras groups, appreciated that gesture as a respect act about those deads and that tragedy, and are thanking for that.
no strings attached

The only ones behaving respectfully are Liverpool supporters. It could have been so easy for us to be spiteful but we didn't. And that's after that back-turning episode. Gracious we are.