Topic: Alcohol Issues - The Carl van Riel Memorial Thread

[24/7]

Meat and veggies in your missus' mouth? Ooookay........

Kudos on the continuation of the newfangled diet though Tom, super impressive - and by the way are you finding yourself sleeping better too........?

[Slightly Less Mediocre Baron Bennekov]

and by the way are you finding yourself sleeping better too........?

Honestly? Not really. I've gotten to the age where I have to go for a piss once or twice during the night no matter how little water I drink after 8 o'clock. It's fucking annoying! However the sleep I do get feels better if that's what you mean?

[rob1966]

Our next door neighbour has a serious problem, which is being highlighted by this nice weather. I always knew they drank a lot, you could tell by the amount of bottles going in the recycling bin on a Monday morning, but no idea how bad. Most days she is slurring by 5 and pissed by 6:30, you can hear her as she talks to the kids.
Last night she must have heard me talking to the missus about losing weight, when I got back from the Asda just after 7, my youngest was outside with her daughter and she went and got her Mum, cos she wanted to speak to me. She was showing me this app she has been using, similar to MyFitnessPal and she was slurring away, showing me how she was tracking her food and drink intake - she casually mentioned "oh thats the wine I'm drinking", 7 x 100ml !!! She does this nearly every night, we reckon she has got pissed every night for the last 9 days in a row and most nights going back two months.
Her Mum was apparently an alcoholic it's looking like she is falling victim to the same disease.

I'm trying really hard with my two lads so that they grow up with a healthy attitude towards alcohol and having a Nan (her Ma) whose life revolves around drinking she actually shit herself in our house a couple of years ago because she got that drunk and seeing a neighbour pissed a lot will hopefully help them understand that alcohol can be enjoyed, but if you are not careful, will become a demon. I did all my heavy drinking when I worked in a hotel when I was 21, fucking ridiculous amounts of beer, but getting a driving job meant that stopped and for years I have stopped drinking to get pissed. The kids see us drinking, as we will have drinks with meals or in the garden, but very rarely have they seen us drunk and they find that funny as we both are giddy not narky.

[24/7]

Honestly? Not really. I've gotten to the age where I have to go for a piss once or twice during the night no matter how little water I drink after 8 o'clock. It's fucking annoying! However the sleep I do get feels better if that's what you mean?

Japp, the quality more than the amount...

[Billy The Kid]

She was showing me this app she has been using, similar to MyFitnessPal and she was slurring away, showing me how she was tracking her food and drink intake - she casually mentioned "oh thats the wine I'm drinking", 7 x 100ml !!! She does this nearly every night, we reckon she has got pissed every night for the last 9 days in a row and most nights going back two months. Her Mum was apparently an alcoholic it's looking like she is falling victim to the same disease.

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope her drinking doesn't have a negative impact on her kids. What's even sadder though, is the fact that there are a lot more people like your neighbor in society than people realize. It's alarmingly widespread. What's even more concerning is the fact that those who point this out are often dismissed as dry arses, such is the blase nature of societies attitude towards alcohol in general.

There's also an element of denial to it too in my opinion. I reckon your neighbor knows she has a problem. The MyFitnessPal thing is probably just her way of covering it up. "Hey everyone, look how health conscious I am". Her actions tell a completely different story altogether though. As I say, it's sad. It really is   

[redk84]

Day 22.
Still clean - cravings here and there. keeping myself busy tho.

Have turned down the opportunity to meet people when drinking is on the agenda and am fine with it....not the end of the world right 

cracking on

good luck to the rest doing the same

[AndyInVA]

Day 22.
Still clean - cravings here and there. keeping myself busy tho.

Have turned down the opportunity to meet people when drinking is on the agenda and am fine with it....not the end of the world right 

cracking on

good luck to the rest doing the same

well done, first few weeks are truly hard

boredom is very much the enemy

avoiding social situations where booze is around is a pretty good idea for a while until teh worst cravings are over

[jillcwhomever]

Day 22.
Still clean - cravings here and there. keeping myself busy tho.

Have turned down the opportunity to meet people when drinking is on the agenda and am fine with it....not the end of the world right 

cracking on

good luck to the rest doing the same

Well done for doing this, also avoiding your drinking pals is a positive position to take. Keeping busy is good too, be proud of yourself for getting this far and use it for further motivation to drive you on.

[Billy The Kid]

Day 22.
Still clean - cravings here and there. keeping myself busy tho.

Great stuff mate well done.

I would also echo what Andy said, boredom can be a right bastard. Make sure you take steps to avoid it. Go to the gym more regularly, start playing 5-a-side, sign up for a night class, anything you can think of to fill your days up. Remember, drinking is largely habitual. You need to replace it with new habits.

I've started going to AA meetings again. Not because I relapsed or anything, I do it because it gives me something to do. It's also been quite an eye opener. I'm starting to realise that my previous opinions and perception of AA weren't entirely accurate. They were formed when my mind was in a daze. Now that I've thawed out a bit, I'm starting to see the programme material in a completely different light

As the old saying goes: when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at start to change

[redk84]

Another weekend done...forgot to say thanks to those on here for the advice/support. Would defo recommend anybody thinking of doing something similar to have a read of some of these pages

Defo re-alligned some of my attitudes towards doing this from the get go, especially in terms of how to use my time and with who.
Unfortunately injuries have stopped my idea to ramp up the fitness thing so finding alternatives...

[Billy The Kid]

Started reading the AA big book again over the weekend. It's funny how the mind works. The last time I read this I remember thinking that it made a lot of theoretical sense. I thought I "understood" its sentiments and concepts. Fuck me, how wrong I was! Reading it now, with a clearer mind, and I swear, it's like reading my own personal diary. Not a paragraph goes by where I don't think "fucking hell, that's me! That's exactly how I was". Check out this snippet. If only I had a dollar for every time this happened me....

[Billy The Kid]

This is me again!

I think this also dispels the misconception that AA is religious - it actually isn't

I remember trying to explain this to Carl on a few occasions 

[AndyInVA]

I think Billy it can depend upon the group. Although AA is not written as a religious 'God' text, it is written more as a spiritual  text.

My experience in the bible belt in the States was that AA was a very Christian organization and every meeting started with a religious prayer. It did the exact same thing and at the time really shut my mind down quite a bit until the meeting got going and got into the personal experiences part.

Had my own mini episode this weekend. Had a great afternoon with my now very serious gf, soon to be fiancee. I had two beers hanging out with them in the afternoon and another three over a long dinner. Although my cravings to get 'drunk' are long gone, beer is something I still enjoy and it is of course a nice feeling. I ended saying some off the cuff comment to my gf at the end of the night and she gets completely pissed off. It wasnt anything massively offensive but she said it was something I would not have said if I had not been drinking.

So much for never having to apologize after going out. The single one thing I had said I do not miss having given up booze for a few years. Seems even though I do not feel the same pull of booze I had years ago, it still seems I have it in me to be a bit of a dick if I have anything more than two beers or wines.

[Billy The Kid]

I think Billy it can depend upon the group. Although AA is not written as a religious 'God' text, it is written more as a spiritual  text.

Oh, of course. There's a lot of diversity within AA. I fully agree that every group is different. I also agree that there is a spiritual element to the programme. But again, that's another term that is hugely misunderstood in my opinion. A lot of people tend to conflate spirituality with religion. They're not the same thing at all

As for the episode with your girlfriend, there's nothing I can say that you don't already know yourself. To me, you're taking a hell of a lot of risk for a tiny bit of short term pleasure. Not a hand that I would personally play. But to each their own

[Corkboy]

This is me again!

I think this also dispels the misconception that AA is religious - it actually isn't

I remember trying to explain this to Carl on a few occasions 

Whoever wrote that doesn't know what atheism is. It's not a blind faith in anything. It's simply the absence of any belief in a god or gods. Atheism does not offer an alternative.

[Billy The Kid]

Whoever wrote that doesn't know what atheism is. It's not a blind faith in anything. It's simply the absence of any belief in a god or gods. Atheism does not offer an alternative.

It was written by Bill Wilson - one of the founders of AA. It was also written 80 odd years ago. If you've ever read the book then I'm sure you'll have noticed that most of the diction and phraseology contained within it is quite different to modern day parlance. Furthermore, the public discussion on Atheism/Religion wasn't as informed back in the 1930's as it is today. Three quarters of a century have since passed. Therefore I think it's probably fair to cut Wilson a little contextual slack instead of subjecting him to literary scrutiny.

I understand you like debating and discussing the dichotomy between atheism and the existence (or non-existence) of divine deities. All cool beans. As I think I've told you before, I actually enjoy reading your contributions whenever I browse through those type of threads. I just don't think this is one of those types of threads though, wouldn't you agree?

The point of me posting that snippet from the book was to simply share that I, just like Bill Wilson, do NOT subscribe to any religious faith or doctrine of any kind. I can't stand religion or any of the bullshit ideologies that it promotes. That being said however, I do believe that there is a universal power greater than myself. I can't give you an accurate literal understanding of it because it's too far beyond my comprehension to even begin articulating it. But it's there and its what helps me to maintain my sobriety and my sanity. I assure you it's not my willpower. I'm an addict. I don't have any willpower. If my sobriety was solely dependent on my ability to abstain then I'd have died in a gutter years ago. I was just curious if any of the other contributors to the thread have had a similar experience. That's all

[Corkboy]

No problem, Billy, I don't want to derail the thread.

[Billy The Kid]

This is another interesting snippet from the book. Here, the discussion is about mental blind spots. This is when the alcoholic - despite understanding the harm that alcohol can cause him - still proceeds to take the first drink. I think this is why many non-alcoholics look at chronic drinkers and think "what are they thinking?". That's precisely the problem, in many cases, the alcoholic isn't thinking. At least not rationally that is

Note that he doesn't say "suddenly I remembered I was on the dry". Or "suddenly I remembered that alcohol fucks me up". Or "suddenly I thought it might be wise to get out of there. Or "suddenly it occurred to me to phone my sponsor". None of those things occurred to him. Instead his rational thought process was completely bypassed. This has happened me many a time. I remember living in Belfast, walking down to the bank one Friday morning to mail a cheque. I stopped on Malone road for some breakfast. I didn't get home until the following Monday. Scarily cunning bastard of a disease

[Slightly Less Mediocre Baron Bennekov]

Went to a Roger Waters concert last night with 3 mates. Stayed off the pints and drove my mates car home. Feeling good today.

[Purple Red]

It was written by Bill Wilson - one of the founders of AA. It was also written 80 odd years ago. If you've ever read the book then I'm sure you'll have noticed that most of the diction and phraseology contained within it is quite different to modern day parlance. Furthermore, the public discussion on Atheism/Religion wasn't as informed back in the 1930's as it is today. Three quarters of a century have since passed. Therefore I think it's probably fair to cut Wilson a little contextual slack instead of subjecting him to literary scrutiny.

I understand you like debating and discussing the dichotomy between atheism and the existence (or non-existence) of divine deities. All cool beans. As I think I've told you before, I actually enjoy reading your contributions whenever I browse through those type of threads. I just don't think this is one of those types of threads though, wouldn't you agree?

The point of me posting that snippet from the book was to simply share that I, just like Bill Wilson, do NOT subscribe to any religious faith or doctrine of any kind. I can't stand religion or any of the bullshit ideologies that it promotes. That being said however, I do believe that there is a universal power greater than myself. I can't give you an accurate literal understanding of it because it's too far beyond my comprehension to even begin articulating it. But it's there and its what helps me to maintain my sobriety and my sanity. I assure you it's not my willpower. I'm an addict. I don't have any willpower. If my sobriety was solely dependent on my ability to abstain then I'd have died in a gutter years ago. I was just curious if any of the other contributors to the thread have had a similar experience. That's all

Interesting post, Billy. I have a friend who's in AA, and he's quite young (26). I found it unusual when I first met him that someone so young could be in AA. I had previously stereotyped AA meetings as halls full of older people who have drunk themselves to the brink. Getting back to the point of your post, he and I basically share the same value system only we have different names for it. I'm religious whereas he isn't. What I identify as God, he identifies as the higher power theories mentioned in AA. He's shown me excerpts from the AA handbook and it amazed how similar some of the lessons are to lessons found within the Bible. On the topic of the thread, I've cut away back on my own drinking in the past few months and it has benefitted me in ways I would never have expected. It's not that I was a massive drinker, it's just that I viewed it as my main reward for a week's work etc. Since I've cut back I've noticed physical and mental health benefits. This in turn has brought me greater spiritual comfort and the realisation that you can reach a higher state of consciousness through willpower and belief as opposed to chemical substances. I still love a beer, but I am no longer interested in drinking sessions.

[Billy The Kid]

Interesting post, Billy. I have a friend who's in AA, and he's quite young (26). I found it unusual when I first met him that someone so young could be in AA. I had previously stereotyped AA meetings as halls full of older people who have drunk themselves to the brink. Getting back to the point of your post, he and I basically share the same value system only we have different names for it. I'm religious whereas he isn't. What I identify as God, he identifies as the higher power theories mentioned in AA. He's shown me excerpts from the AA handbook and it amazed how similar some of the lessons are to lessons found within the Bible. On the topic of the thread, I've cut away back on my own drinking in the past few months and it has benefitted me in ways I would never have expected. It's not that I was a massive drinker, it's just that I viewed it as my main reward for a week's work etc. Since I've cut back I've noticed physical and mental health benefits. This in turn has brought me greater spiritual comfort and the realisation that you can reach a higher state of consciousness through willpower and belief as opposed to chemical substances. I still love a beer, but I am no longer interested in drinking sessions.

That's great to hear. As Jim and Tom have mentioned over the last few pages of the thread, cutting down on alcohol brings all kinds of benefits. Not just physically and mentally, but also as you say, spiritually too. I used to struggle with the "spiritual" aspect of AA. I honestly did. Now that I think of it, I used to struggle with the concept of "spirituality" in general. I used to hem it in with religion. To me it was all the same bag. That was of course, until I started considering it in different contexts. I then gradually began to realize that they're not the same thing at all

As I mentioned earlier, I have a pretty low tolerance when it comes to religious doctrine. In my opinion it sheds a very skewed light on what God is and what God does. I'd even go so far as to say that religion is the reason that the term "God" is so misunderstood, so stigmatised, and so ridiculed. I used to feel somewhat "odd" about crediting God for my recovery. My thinking used to be that if I come out with a sentence like "God helped me get sober" then people will think I'm some sort of dim c*nt, or religious freak. Which couldn't be further from the truth.

[Purple Red]

That's great to hear. As Jim and Tom have mentioned over the last few pages of the thread, cutting down on alcohol brings all kinds of benefits. Not just physically and mentally, but also as you say, spiritually too. I used to struggle with the "spiritual" aspect of AA. I honestly did. Now that I think of it, I used to struggle with the concept of "spirituality" in general. I used to hem it in with religion. To me it was all the same bag. That was of course, until I started considering it in different contexts. I then gradually began to realize that they're not the same thing at all

As I mentioned earlier, I have a pretty low tolerance when it comes to religious doctrine. In my opinion it sheds a very skewed light on what God is and what God does. I'd even go so far as to say that religion is the reason that the term "God" is so misunderstood, so stigmatised, and so ridiculed. I used to feel somewhat "odd" about crediting God for my recovery. My thinking used to be that if I come out with a sentence like "God helped me get sober" then people will think I'm some sort of dim c*nt, or religious freak. Which couldn't be further from the truth.

Bingo. Organised religion has stigmatized the concept of God to the point of believers finding it difficult to overcome the ridicule of their own deity. The way I look at it is that 'God' is lodged deep in a part of the brain that you have work really hard to unlock. Scientists only understand about 20% of the human brain at a push so the rest could indeed be spiritual territory. Some people never make that leap over the 20% mark, others do but it mightn't be pretty. It really is something that has to be worked on daily.

To bring things back to alcohol, I think the main reason it is abused is because people are tormented by their true nature and what goes on in their heads. Men especially use it to mask feelings of rage, disappointment, sadness and a whole other range of negative emotions. My friend in AA also told me, interestingly, that new initiates are often asked who God is and the answer they are told to ponder is: "It's not you." Alcohol is only one of many behaviours that a lot of people selfishly get lost in because they can't view the world beyond their own needs and problems.

[redk84]

Had a massive test on the weekend. First big one I'd say, have avoided difficult scenarios up until now by just flat-out refusing to go out.
Needed to go to a party and to be honest it was to show face at first but ended up staying there for a while...

wasn't that bad!

seeing people doing what they do (what i used to do) in a bar was quite surreal. I stuck to my soda water and lime and kept within my group socialising and honestly i still had a good time. Enjoyed myself, but was hard at times im not going to lie.....

....and when i got home at the end was a bit frustrated when thinking about missing out on just having a few whilst out. thinking why can't i just do that? but i can't just do that because then i wouldn't be doing what i am doing now. All those roads led me here. Waking up the next day and today the frustrations have gone away somewhat and i can recognise that im trying to build a different relationship with alcohol

feeling good about what im doing and conversely feeling like ive let go of a part of life ill never get back. I know remembering the good times where alcohol was involved is a definite mind trap. But its all good for now, there's a lot of to and fro im expecting and the time i have now is to assess things properly....

conflicting stuff on day 39.....im writing this all down in stages as much for myself to look back on as much as for anyone else interested in reading. a sort of verbal diarrhea put down on paper (as most of my posting tends to be to be honest) 

Good vibes to everyone out there trying to be sober....or keeping a loved one sober

[rob1966]

Saw a video interview/appeal on you tube last night, been shared by friends on Facebook, of a lad who was part of the group I used to knock about with in the from 1996 til 2005. He was one very intelligent lad, was doing a PHD in nuclear physics or something like that. He was always overweight and he liked a bevvy like the rest of us. Always a happy fella, always smiling.
First time I've seen him since I reckon 2004 and he looks a shadow of his former self. He has lost loads of weight, but not in a good way. He's got cirrhosis of the liver and unless he gets a transplant, he is going to die. He accepts he did it to himself, he doesn't beat about the bush, but you can see how the situation has really hit him and he looks terrified. Horrible to see someone I know in that kind of state. He is hoping he can find a match and allow him to have a transplant to save his life.

[Billy The Kid]

....and when i got home at the end was a bit frustrated when thinking about missing out on just having a few whilst out. thinking why can't i just do that? but i can't just do that because then i wouldn't be doing what i am doing now.

There's a part in the AA book where they talk about the early stages of quitting - i.e the first 90 days. They talk specifically about 3 common emotions that most drinkers encounter when trying to adjust to sobriety. Those emotions are restlessness, irritation, and discontentment. Sounds to me like that's the boat you're in right now. For me, it felt like something had been taken away from me. Like life was singling me out and punishing me for no reason. I used to keep asking "what did I do to deserve such a shitty hand of cards?". "Why can't I just have a bit of fun and enjoy myself like everyone else?"

Then slowly but surely, as I learned to put helping others ahead of my own selfish wants and needs (which is the foundation of any form of addiction recovery) I started to see things in a different light. I started to see that all I needed to do to live a life of normality was to simply avoid drinking alcohol. Which isn't all that much when you consider that there are millions of unfortunate souls on this planet who will never know what it's like to live a life of normality. And what's even sadder is in many cases, it's through no fault of their own

I'm talking about people with physical disabilities, handicaps, mental illnesses, deformities, afflictions of all sorts. Some of these people don't know what it's like to be able to wake in the morning and get themselves out of bed. They can't do basic things like have a morning shower and wipe their own backsides. They have to sit there while another person does it for them. Imagine the indignity of that. Imagine not being able to fix your own meals. Imagine not being able to have a relationship or enjoy a healthy sex life with another person. Imagine not being able to go to work and earn a wage. Some people will never get married. Many will never have children. One of my neighbours is a man in his 50's who still lives with his mother because he's physically handicapped. Imagine what must be going through his mind. Imagine what must be going through his poor mothers mind   

Yet all I have to do in order to enjoy all of the things I just mentioned (many of which are taken for granted) is simply not pick up a drink. That's it. That's the only price I have to pay, which is pittance when you consider the hardships that other people have to go through. I find it's useful to remind myself of that whenever I feel discontentment creeping in. I still feel it at times.

[redk84]

snip

Cheers...did feel less sorry for myself the morning after and definintely now. Just have to stick to what im diong this for and see it through

As you say....there's a lot worse out there people deal with which they dont ask for

[sms1986]

Drinkers Like Me is in iPlayer now if anyone is interested - https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0bhkc8b/drinkers-like-me-adrian-chiles#.

[A-Bomb]

Happy birthday Carl - hope you're rocking it up today.

[TepidT2O]

SHF. Happy birthday.  Shine on you crazy diamond

[jillcwhomever]

Happy Birthday Carl. Thoughts to the family.

[El Lobo]

Bet he's having a nice juice up there

Happy Birthday big man

[Billy The Kid]

Happy birthday Carl me ould mucker!

I must try and get the book finished for him soon. Hopefully by Christmas

[sms1986]

Happy birthday, Carl.

[Tesco tearaway]

Happy birthday Carl 

[Motty]

Happy birthday Carl la [emoji1303]

[rob1966]

Happy Birthday Carl.

[CornerFlag]

Does anyone know the efficacy of minimum unit pricing yet?  I know it's used in Scotland but struggling to find anything on it other than possible economic effects.

[Elmo!]

Does anyone know the efficacy of minimum unit pricing yet?  I know it's used in Scotland but struggling to find anything on it other than possible economic effects.

Way too soon to draw any conclusions yet. As I understand it, Scotland is the first to implement such a system.

I heard anecdotal stories at the weekend of people distilling their own alcohol because of it but I am hugely sceptical of that (or at least it happening on a significant scale).

[Peabee]

I haven’t had a drink for a week and I feel better for it already. But I’m getting near the stage where I feel good, so it’d be nice to nip to my local for a pint.

I hope everyone is doing well and not being too hard on themselves.

[AndyInVA]

I have been in this amazing relationship with a lady for five months and we planned marriage and blending family and everything.

I went on this trip with my daughter two weeks ago and slept in these awful cabins that were about 22C at night and I drank a bottle of red wine to help me sleep which didn't work.

I then got into a text fight with the lady and ended up saying things I never would have said if i was sober.

She ended it with me the next day.

I have so many regrets. There is a case for managing alcohol and in the main I think I can. I just think if I have more than two I should not be around anyone. If I had quit drinking altogether I would still be in the best relationship I have had or frankly expect to have going forward.