Author Topic: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.  (Read 23024 times)

Offline vicgill

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #160 on: August 20, 2009, 12:59:26 pm »
"Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and making yourself available to receive a pass, it is really that simple"

"Friend, mourn not, though he premature departs, his wisdom marches on within our hearts"
  
RIP Ray Osbourne, comrade, epic swindler, and Internet Terrorist Extraordinaire.

Offline The Nihilists

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #161 on: August 20, 2009, 01:10:13 pm »
 
I know for certain he did, hope that's not a Wwoooooosh  ;D


Aye, these whoooshes these days are hard to keep up with.

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #162 on: August 20, 2009, 01:12:26 pm »
Knee jerking apparently spreads like swine flu.  From a Mancherster Untied site.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Crustanoid View Post
We've allowed Liverpool to make up the points deficit in the very next round of matches. Pathetic
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedThaiDevils#7 View Post
Burnley OMG. It hurts more than the CL finals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VidaRed View Post
shoot it you fucking twat park

fuck off the pitch this very moment
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walrus View Post
can anyone explain why the fuck park is still on?


Simple things like that really make me wonder if Fergies age is catching up with him (which im not saying is the case).
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMarcello View Post
Park can't come off - SAF has made 3 subs! FFS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma_87 View Post
I know but he's playing like a retard.We don't need anyone on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldoVII View Post
Get the cheque book.
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrocentricity View Post
Well... that exposes the myth of my lucky jersey.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marchi-91 View Post
Park can fuck right off with a performance like that. Absolute wank. No idea what the fuck Mr Ferguson was watching, but leaving Park on cost us the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by All 3 United View Post
Don't tell me we missed Fletch! Just maybe now we will realise that we need to sign like 3 players!!!! This is not a freak result as most on here will claim, the comentators said this is most unusual and unlike man utd. FFS it was fuckin obvious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by togg View Post
I don't care what ever you guys say. We sell ronaldo for 80 million....and get owen and valencia. I'm not saying we have to win the league every year..but at least lets make signings that make the league and europe know we are powerful and have ambition....

fucks sake............Mr Alex Ferguson.I love you and perhaps you are doing the rebuilding, but give us fight on the pitch....lose with fight and I'm totally happy, but be lethargic against a team you would normally put a second string team out and I'm saying nooooooooooooooooooo, computer says noooooooooooooooo
Quote:
Originally Posted by All 3 United View Post
SAF wlcome to life without Ronaldo.


Online Uhoh AureliOs

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #163 on: August 20, 2009, 01:14:06 pm »
 
I know for certain he did, hope that's not a Wwoooooosh  ;D

Shameless bumping eh Vic? :D

Offline WesternRed

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #164 on: August 20, 2009, 11:31:42 pm »
ire in the hole?  :D
Surely ire down below!?!  :D
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Offline vicgill

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #165 on: August 21, 2009, 06:51:01 am »
Shameless bumping eh Vic? :D

Just couldn't allow this great thread to go off the front page  ;D
"Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and making yourself available to receive a pass, it is really that simple"

"Friend, mourn not, though he premature departs, his wisdom marches on within our hearts"
  
RIP Ray Osbourne, comrade, epic swindler, and Internet Terrorist Extraordinaire.

Offline TheVoiceOfRiise

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #166 on: August 21, 2009, 07:40:46 am »
 
I know for certain he did, hope that's not a Wwoooooosh  ;D

wouldn't dream of it  ;)
Please have a listen  to my band - www.solavirtus.co.uk

Offline rafa is the bosphorus

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #167 on: August 21, 2009, 08:56:28 am »
The OP is a quality post.

Much of what's being described are well-known psychological phenomena (and has been well described recently in a book entitled "risk":

1) 'Example rule'. If something can be easily recalled, it is more likely to be true/relevant

2) Confirmation bias. Once a view point has been established, new evidence is filtered so as to confirm it.

Working together, a few pundits saying 'zonal marking is rubbish' creates examples. They are easily recalled, and so people believe them to be true. All new evidence is then interpreted to confirm this. So we have people saying 'zonal marking doesn't work' when we concede a goal, but not 'man-marking doesn't work' when anyone else does

The reason why we get the kneee jerking after a loss is that the examples are fresh in people's minds. The fact that these examples may actually be statistically rare is irrelevant.

The only protection from this kind of error is either genuine knowledge of the game, which I don't pretend to have, or statistics, which people like Paul T make available from time to time. For which I am truly grateful

Offline harvey-tuttle

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #168 on: August 21, 2009, 11:50:50 am »
Its been said(written) many times on RAWK, that the name "RED and white KOP" has been forgiven, the blatant & disloyal & instant critique is a symptom of this " fast food-media"mentality, some of the things said about our manager & players are basic insults that would have resulting in the "fan"being hung by his balls from the OLd KOP...

sometimes when I see the sort of sh*te that comes out, and evidence of the blame-culture ruling & ruining OUR KOP//  mostly youngfer but also no excuse for the older heads that also do it..I feel like walkign away, but its the duty of all of us to stay and argue them down, fairly & honestly and avoid name-calling in reaction to this BS we constantly see, the bating of Lucas was disgusting but has been evident increasingly (even Carra suffered a few seasons ago) ..

its a social problem whereby now wit & humour has been mostly replaced by NASTY sniping..

all credit to anyone who stands up for the REAL "Spirit of Shankly"because quite simply if they said in front of him, he would have boxed yer ears...

YNWA!

p..s we were champion -quality  last season - we are this season, a bad day last sunday doesnt change that! come on U REDS!!!

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may the RED force be with you...
YNWA-J4t96

Offline The Nihilists

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #169 on: August 21, 2009, 12:25:31 pm »
A knee-jerk reaction is saying everything is ok because we beat Stoke at home!!


Jesus, you're a cheery fucker.

We had an 86-point season last year. We've added to the squad, and lost one top player.

Nothing is ever totally okay, but the blip was losing at Spurs, not beating Stoke. In fact, it's an improvement to beat those fuckers.

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #170 on: August 21, 2009, 12:30:36 pm »
Nice one Seb! That must be a first - a RAWK article gets a mention on the official site!

Offline jamiehill

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #171 on: August 21, 2009, 01:26:55 pm »

Just couldn't allow this great thread to go off the front page  ;D

I hope we don't have to come back on this thread all season.
The English club proved that miracles really do exist. I've now made Liverpool my English team. They showed that football is the most beautiful sport of all. They showed their unconditional support at half-time when they were losing 3-0 and still they didn't stop singing." Diego Maradona

Offline vicgill

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #172 on: August 21, 2009, 03:58:55 pm »
Saturday May 24th 1954 Liverpool FC relegated to the 2nd division.

Monday 26th May 1954, I was on the number 19 bus travelling to town with me mam as we passed Anfield I started to cry, the conductor asked me mam if I was ok, me mam replied "The love of his life have been relegated" the conductor roughled my hair and said "don't worry son we will be back" the twat didn't tell me it would be 8 long painful years. To make matters worse Everton were promoted from Division 2.

In those days only the Champions and runners up were promoted

Season 1954/55 finished 11th second division                                                   
Season 1955/56 finished 3 rd  second division (missed promotion by 4 points)
Season 1956/57 finished 3 rd  second division (missed promotion by 1 point)
Season 1957/58 finished 4th   second division (missed promotion by 3 points)
Season 1958/59 finished 4th   second division (missed promotion by 8 points)
Season 1959/60 finished 3rd   second division (missed promotion by 9 points)
Season 1960/61 finished 3rd   second division (missed promotion by 7 points)
Season 1961/62 finished 1st   second division champions, promoted to 1st division.

During those long 8 yrs our average home attendance was approximately 40,000, the Kop was born in those last three seasons and went on to be acknowledged as the most discerning supporters in the world, a title that i believe is not so well deserved in recent years. I can assure you the frustration in those 2nd division years was far greater than anything we have suffered since (on the pitch) and believe me we had some players who were real donkeys but they weren't booed or picked out for special treatment, they were Liverpool players and treated accordingly, for me Liverpool fc were,are and always will be the greatest club in English football. They have made me cry, they have made me laugh but above all they have made me proud.

 This of course is just my opinion and I expect to be shot down for it




 
« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 04:39:18 pm by vicgill »
"Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and making yourself available to receive a pass, it is really that simple"

"Friend, mourn not, though he premature departs, his wisdom marches on within our hearts"
  
RIP Ray Osbourne, comrade, epic swindler, and Internet Terrorist Extraordinaire.

Offline hesbighesred

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #173 on: August 21, 2009, 04:05:21 pm »
Nice one Seb! That must be a first - a RAWK article gets a mention on the official site!
I must say I'm well chuffed by that. Thanks Paul! and thanks to everyone for the wonderful feedback.

Needless to say, my head is now swollen to galactic proportions. So much so that I've started angling for a move to Real Galactatwats...I'll keep you all posted, as I expect Ronaldo to be my boot shine boy. ;)
He is the cat who walks by himself, and all roads are alike to him.

Offline opsteo

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #174 on: August 21, 2009, 04:45:04 pm »
M
I must say I'm well chuffed by that. Thanks Paul! and thanks to everyone for the wonderful feedback.

Needless to say, my head is now swollen to galactic proportions. So much so that I've started angling for a move to Real Galactatwats...I'll keep you all posted, as I expect Ronaldo to be my boot shine boy. ;)

Imagine as you are reaching home at your front door, an Arab and a spanish man waving their cheque books at your family -- finally, Real Madrid and ManCity realised that world domination will only be possible if they start having real fans.

Anyway, I think that you deserve the accolade - well done.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 04:47:30 pm by opsteo »

Offline hesbighesred

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #175 on: August 21, 2009, 04:50:04 pm »
M
Imagine as you are reaching home at your front door, an Arab and a spanish man waving their cheque books at your family -- finally, Real Madrid and ManCity realised that world domination will only be possible if they start having real fans.
:)

PS -

Excellent post that Vic, really puts things into perspective, and here we are, fans of today, wetting ourselves and crying because we might not be winning everything this season.

It's odd though, the entitlement and sense of rage seems to increase the more successful you get.

I mean, even I can remember when we'd have given a collective bollock (as in, 90's generation fans, if you like) just to be a force in Europe again...screw the league, just some pride, a proper showing against the big boys.

Man, that got thrown out of the window quickly didn't it? Insane how we almost take for granted now that we should be thrashing European minnows like Inter or whoever, asking questions and looking worryingly at declining trends because we only reached the 1/4s of the world's most elite competition, the one players and managers want above all others.
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Offline ALECTHERED

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #176 on: August 21, 2009, 05:22:05 pm »

Jesus, you're a cheery fucker.

We had an 86-point season last year. We've added to the squad, and lost one top player.

Nothing is ever totally okay, but the blip was losing at Spurs, not beating Stoke. In fact, it's an improvement to beat those fuckers.
I was more talking about the owners draining what they can out the club, and the fact that if it is allowed to go on we are never even gunna get a sniff of the league...Was Sami Hyppia not a top player? who needs replacing? or Keane for that matter? because none of them have been replaced.

And the money is there sitting nicely in the yanks back pockets.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 05:28:10 pm by ALECTHERED »
WE are liverpool.YOU are playing for liverpool.do not forget that.You have to hold your heads up for the SUPPORTERS.

Offline skipper757

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #177 on: August 21, 2009, 06:32:56 pm »
Excellent post, hesbighesred.

The knee-jerking that goes on in football these days is ridiculous.  After the first weekend, Liverpool were all but written off while everyone and their dogs were singing Arsenal's praises.  Remember the gap between the two sides in the table last season?  Remember when many were tipping Liverpool for the title?  Remember when many were picking City to finish ahead of Arsenal?

90 minutes later, it all changed.  Never mind that there were 37 matches left.  Here's that nice quote from that well-written Telegraph blog:

"To many, it is already far, far too late. Liverpool’s flat performance at White Hart Lane, it seems, has left them with just 37 games to claw back an all but unbridgeable three-point deficit on all their main rivals and nigh on extinguished their hopes of winning the league."

It's incredible how Liverpool are almost in a crisis after just one match, where Carragher, Skrtel, Benayoun, and even Gerrard and Torres were not 100% fit.  And of course, let's just ignore the fact that Spurs have a fantastic squad this season and with Palacios there for a full season, they could challenge the top 4.  3 points behind and Liverpool are done.

Another thing that annoys me is how the media portray the "title race."  It's always: "they are out of the title race if they don't win" or "they're back in the title race now!"  It is the epitome of knee-jerking.  If a team is "out of the title race," then they are OUT.  DONE.  FINISHED.  So how is it that a team is supposedly finished in their quest for the title all of a sudden be right back in the race just 2 weeks later?  Maybe, if the pundits/writers/fans didn't knee-jerk in the first place, we'd see that the said team was never "out of the title race" in the first place.

With the number of ways people talk about football these days, it's inevitable that we'd run into a number of different opinions.  But it seems the media is consistent for 2 things:  knee-jerking and reinforcing misconceptions.  These two types of portrayals eventually trickle down to many fans as well.

Here's the formula:

Knee-jerking + reinforcing misconceptions = Liverpool are not winning the league.

Examples:

1. Not enough depth + Lucas is crap = Liverpool are not winning the league.
2. Alonso was best player + Rafa can't manage in the league = Liverpool are not winning the league.
3. Carragher's past it + zonal marking is crap = Liverpool are not winning the league.
4. Liverpool's not good enough + Liverpool are a two-man team = Liverpool are not winning the league.

Knee-jerking and misconceptions combine to reinforce points that aren't necessarily true.  Perspective is needed.  Sadly, it seems the media have no perspective on events and that influences many fans.

-Just my thoughts.  Written in a hurry.  Typos may be present.
King Kenny.

Offline Zverko

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #178 on: August 21, 2009, 06:55:29 pm »
Saturday May 24th 1954 Liverpool FC relegated to the 2nd division.

Monday 26th May 1954, I was on the number 19 bus travelling to town with me mam as we passed Anfield I started to cry, the conductor asked me mam if I was ok, me mam replied "The love of his life have been relegated" the conductor roughled my hair and said "don't worry son we will be back" the twat didn't tell me it would be 8 long painful years. To make matters worse Everton were promoted from Division 2.

In those days only the Champions and runners up were promoted

Season 1954/55 finished 11th second division                                                   
Season 1955/56 finished 3 rd  second division (missed promotion by 4 points)
Season 1956/57 finished 3 rd  second division (missed promotion by 1 point)
Season 1957/58 finished 4th   second division (missed promotion by 3 points)
Season 1958/59 finished 4th   second division (missed promotion by 8 points)
Season 1959/60 finished 3rd   second division (missed promotion by 9 points)
Season 1960/61 finished 3rd   second division (missed promotion by 7 points)
Season 1961/62 finished 1st   second division champions, promoted to 1st division.

During those long 8 yrs our average home attendance was approximately 40,000, the Kop was born in those last three seasons and went on to be acknowledged as the most discerning supporters in the world, a title that i believe is not so well deserved in recent years. I can assure you the frustration in those 2nd division years was far greater than anything we have suffered since (on the pitch) and believe me we had some players who were real donkeys but they weren't booed or picked out for special treatment, they were Liverpool players and treated accordingly, for me Liverpool fc were,are and always will be the greatest club in English football. They have made me cry, they have made me laugh but above all they have made me proud.

 This of course is just my opinion and I expect to be shot down for it

This is a great post, I never experienced my team being relegated, although often when I saw other teams relegated, I wondered what it is like.

A great post, and puts things into perspective....
The King: "The most important people at Liverpool Football Club are the people who want to be here"

Offline The Nihilists

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #179 on: August 21, 2009, 09:57:06 pm »
I still like how Liverpool were a "two man team", until Xabi Alonso left - then suddenly we were useless without him.

Still, it's United's problem this week.

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #180 on: August 22, 2009, 04:35:11 am »
I still like how Liverpool were a "two man team", until Xabi Alonso left - then suddenly we were useless without him.

Still, it's United's problem this week.
And blame for Rafa for "letting Alonso go" when Alonso himself has said after he left that he had to.  If Rafa had somehow forced Alonso to stay, he would have been equated to the Gestapo.

Offline Jack Slater

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #181 on: August 22, 2009, 07:47:26 am »

I'm sure I'm not the first person to say this, but congrats, HBHR, on being mentioned on the official site by Tomkins.

Good to know that sensible and positive views can get a bit of attention from time to time, as a small antidote to tidal waves of negativity towards us from Sky, the national papers and the now defunct Setanta.  It'd be nice to see ESPN takin' a different angle too, although I wont hold my breath.



Offline neutron

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #182 on: August 23, 2009, 08:02:25 am »
I came to this thread late but I'm glad I came. Excellent analysis by HBHR of the low-brow codswallop we are served with by the so-called experts on TV and in the papers and of the typical knee-jerk post-match thread posters.
With regard to the "experts" take, for example, Hansen and Shearer on MOTD last night; they don't actually analyse anything, they merely describe what players did - as if we can't see it for ourselves. Do I need Alan Shearer to tell me Given made a great save...or that Wolves had some great chances which they didn't convert? Sorry Alan but that's why I was watching the bloody highlights! Does he really think that we don't notice Given's save until he points it out?
HBHR is quite right to point out that there is virtually no mention of tactics, no mention of changes made during a game to deal with problems, no attempt to expose the finer points these top tacticians, which our top managers undoubtedly are, have employed in a game.
Instead it's Rafa's "rant", Rafa's rotation, Rafa's zonal marking, Ferguson's mind games, Ferguson's hairdrier half time talk, etc, etc which the press churn out with stultifying regularity.
I'm listening to the Ashes at the moment and while I freely admit cricket is not everyone's cup of tea, I am always struck by how knowledgeable the commentators and comment makers are. I realise that I have learned an incredible amount about cricket over the years just from following their comments. This has given me insights into the game which lets me enjoy it even more.
The only thing I have learned from football punditry, "expert" commentators and post-match knee-jerk threads is that they are a complete and depressing waste of time.   

Offline aristeia

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #183 on: August 23, 2009, 08:13:45 am »
Pics or you're a liar who knows fuck all about footy   :P

Sorry, am I supposed to be providing a pic that proves my knowledge of the sport or one of my bum?

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #184 on: August 23, 2009, 08:20:18 am »
And blame for Rafa for "letting Alonso go" when Alonso himself has said after he left that he had to.  If Rafa had somehow forced Alonso to stay, he would have been equated to the Gestapo.

As much as I wanted Xabi to stay, I sure as hell didn't want him around if he's so desperate to leave.  I think Rafa was smart about the situation, he wanted him to stay and when he realized it wasn't going to happen, he already had a Plan B.  It'd be awful if Xabi stuck around after we all knew full well how he felt about it-- it wouldn't be the same at all.

Offline Daranoza

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #185 on: August 23, 2009, 11:47:37 am »
A knee-jerk reaction is saying everything is ok because we beat Stoke at home!!

Considering we couldn't beat that kind of team at home last season it's progress, isn't it?
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Offline redbyrdz

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #186 on: August 23, 2009, 12:30:29 pm »
With regard to the "experts" take, for example, Hansen and Shearer on MOTD last night; they don't actually analyse anything, they merely describe what players did - as if we can't see it for ourselves. Do I need Alan Shearer to tell me Given made a great save...or that Wolves had some great chances which they didn't convert? Sorry Alan but that's why I was watching the bloody highlights! Does he really think that we don't notice Given's save until he points it out?
HBHR is quite right to point out that there is virtually no mention of tactics, no mention of changes made during a game to deal with problems, no attempt to expose the finer points these top tacticians, which our top managers undoubtedly are, have employed in a game.
At least they're actually talking about the game...
to be honest i quite like Hansen on MOTD, as a pundit for not being afraid to rip into teams when they are shit, and of course because he always backs us - just the other day, being asked if he "sticks with Liverpool" (for the title that is):
"Through thick and thin son" :D

Agree with you about them mostly pointing out what anyone can see anyway, but I prefer that to mindless talk about "Rafa's rant" or slagging of zonal marking without even pointing it out in the highlights. Fair enough if they could show a replay, and discuss if that and that freekick or whatever would've been better defended using another system, but they never seem to back things up with pictures, wonder why....

apologies for taking the thread of topic :)
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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #187 on: August 23, 2009, 01:53:48 pm »
I was more talking about the owners draining what they can out the club, and the fact that if it is allowed to go on we are never even gunna get a sniff of the league...

Wrong topic I'm afrraid. Read all of the OP and you'd quickly realise this one isn't about ownership.

Offline liverbnz

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #188 on: August 24, 2009, 10:06:56 pm »
bumpage required
One thing you will discover is that life is based less than you think on what you've learned, and much more than you think on what you have inside you from the very beginning

Offline ♠Dirty Harry♠

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #189 on: August 24, 2009, 10:10:01 pm »
That other thread is fucking mental

Offline John Nolan

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #190 on: August 24, 2009, 10:21:30 pm »
Saturday May 24th 1954 Liverpool FC relegated to the 2nd division.

Monday 26th May 1954, I was on the number 19 bus travelling to town with me mam as we passed Anfield I started to cry, the conductor asked me mam if I was ok, me mam replied "The love of his life have been relegated" the conductor roughled my hair and said "don't worry son we will be back" the twat didn't tell me it would be 8 long painful years. To make matters worse Everton were promoted from Division 2.

In those days only the Champions and runners up were promoted

Season 1954/55 finished 11th second division                                                   
Season 1955/56 finished 3 rd  second division (missed promotion by 4 points)
Season 1956/57 finished 3 rd  second division (missed promotion by 1 point)
Season 1957/58 finished 4th   second division (missed promotion by 3 points)
Season 1958/59 finished 4th   second division (missed promotion by 8 points)
Season 1959/60 finished 3rd   second division (missed promotion by 9 points)
Season 1960/61 finished 3rd   second division (missed promotion by 7 points)
Season 1961/62 finished 1st   second division champions, promoted to 1st division.

During those long 8 yrs our average home attendance was approximately 40,000, the Kop was born in those last three seasons and went on to be acknowledged as the most discerning supporters in the world, a title that i believe is not so well deserved in recent years. I can assure you the frustration in those 2nd division years was far greater than anything we have suffered since (on the pitch) and believe me we had some players who were real donkeys but they weren't booed or picked out for special treatment, they were Liverpool players and treated accordingly, for me Liverpool fc were,are and always will be the greatest club in English football. They have made me cry, they have made me laugh but above all they have made me proud.

 This of course is just my opinion and I expect to be shot down for it




 

What a nice post - the perfect antidote to doom and gloom after a poorish start to this season.

For many on here its only about winning the league; for me the first objective is a top eight finish(check the sequence), then a european place, then winning the league.
 

Offline thredworm

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #191 on: August 24, 2009, 10:24:51 pm »
As good a time as any to write a reply I guess.

I'll tell you what I'm most tired of more than anything else. I've been a member on here for the last 6 years, and during that time I've seen the same thing happen every single season without fail. It's a sentence which is uttered after every bad result.

"Still a long way to go"

Usually followed with "stop moaning, kneejerker" or "can't believe the idiots are writing us off after a few games". This sentence gets on my nerves more than anything for the sole reason that it never matters yet it's always said. It's thrown in your face whenever you bring up really honest facts. Infact, you can't slate anything about the team early on in the season after a bad result without this sentence being smashed into your skull repeatedly by those seemingly unaware of what's happened the previous season, or the season before that.

Let me spell it out for you - WE CAN'T AFFORD TO DROP SILLY POINTS.

There it is. If you could try to keep that sentence in the forefront of your mind, rather than the one I've highlighted above, then you might actually begin to realise that dropping these points this early in the season DOES ultimately mean we won't be winning the title.

It happens every season. We play a few sides who we're supposed to beat easily (who we SHOULD be beating easily) and we go on to lose the game or draw with relegation fodder at home. This is followed by people using the "Still a long way to go" sentence like it's supposed to make you feel better. It's then pointed out that we dropped these silly points last season and didn't win the title, and then that in turn is greeted with some laughter, maybe someone using the imaginary word "knee-jerker", and you've probably guaranteed yourself a seat at the "negative/Rafa out" tea party for the rest of the season.

Bottom line is it's the same every year, and I'm absolutely fucking sick of it. You try to stay positive, you try to believe that it's going to happen this year, and you sit through the summer with a very specific picture in your head regarding what we need to make it come true. But it doesn't happen. YEAR ON FUCKING YEAR. This summer has come and gone, and I'm sorry if you disagree but we're weaker than last season. Don't care if you want to argue, you won't change my mind, we're weaker. Somehow, against all likelihood, when your main rivals lose two important players, we become weaker aswell. And I'm not going to get into an ownership debate, there are other threads for that, but the money has been nowhere to be seen this summer. Even if it WAS there I'm having second thoughts about whether it would be invested in the right areas.

I honestly feel like I'm stuck in a timewarp. Round and round and round we go, and we just can't get to the point where we've got everything sorted and we can grow from there. Last season was the closest I reckon we'll ever get, and not because Rafa won't get it right, it's not as simple as that, there are loads of reasons why I would feel that we just won't better it, Man City's money for a start. Laugh at that all you like, but they'll be more of a force than we will inside 2 years.

I feel like we've worked so fucking hard at everything, but it's just never enough. It's always going to be just beyond us, and no "Believe!" mantra is going to change that. And it's not a "knee-jerk reaction" (yes, it's just an adjective), it's been happening for 20 fucking years, it's hardly a knee-jerk reaction to think that you're not going to be winning the title again after 20 years.

I'd said before a ball was kicked that in all honesty I didn't see us winning it again this year. Before the summer and before Xabi left I felt like we would be going into it in a superb position, ready to dominate. But the summer for me just proved that we can't strengthen like the others can, and it's just been a massive disappointment. So it's not like I'm writing this solely on the back of one defeat, it's moreso as a preempting of what's about to be said. The same shite that's said every year, and I'm tired of hearing it.

Points dropped = less chance of title. Simple as that. Don't care who you are, that's how it goes. And I just don't need to hear how long there is to go. I don't need to hear that there's still 105 points to play for. I don't need to hear that the others will slip up too. I don't need to hear all those things because you've already said them all before, for the last 20 years. They've been said enough.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 10:27:11 pm by thredworm »
"We were looking for them to suffer from the very first minute, and they have suffered until the 90th minute."
Rafa Benitez on Real Madrid, 10th March 2009. Liverpool 4 - 0 Real Madrid

Offline Dr Cornwallis

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #192 on: August 24, 2009, 10:31:53 pm »
There's nothing knee-jerk about anyone who thinks tonight's performance was utter shit.

Offline MidwestWool

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #193 on: August 24, 2009, 10:36:42 pm »
Sorry, am I supposed to be providing a pic that proves my knowledge of the sport or one of my bum?

I'd like a pic of your bum, please.

There's nothing knee-jerk about anyone who thinks tonight's performance was utter shit.

True, but blaming Lucas, Voronin etc. is

Offline Tsar Kastik

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #194 on: August 24, 2009, 10:37:42 pm »
... _ _ _ ...
Plenty well, no pray; big bellyache, heap God

Offline Dr Cornwallis

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #195 on: August 24, 2009, 10:44:38 pm »
It was truly shit well before Voronin came on the pitch, he's completely absolved of blame for tonight.  If this was a school bollocking I'd tell Voronin to leave the room while I layed into just about everyone else.

Offline buzzing

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #196 on: August 24, 2009, 11:07:25 pm »
As good a time as any to write a reply I guess.

I'll tell you what I'm most tired of more than anything else. I've been a member on here for the last 6 years, and during that time I've seen the same thing happen every single season without fail. It's a sentence which is uttered after every bad result.

"Still a long way to go"

Usually followed with "stop moaning, kneejerker" or "can't believe the idiots are writing us off after a few games". This sentence gets on my nerves more than anything for the sole reason that it never matters yet it's always said. It's thrown in your face whenever you bring up really honest facts. Infact, you can't slate anything about the team early on in the season after a bad result without this sentence being smashed into your skull repeatedly by those seemingly unaware of what's happened the previous season, or the season before that.

Let me spell it out for you - WE CAN'T AFFORD TO DROP SILLY POINTS.

There it is. If you could try to keep that sentence in the forefront of your mind, rather than the one I've highlighted above, then you might actually begin to realise that dropping these points this early in the season DOES ultimately mean we won't be winning the title.

It happens every season. We play a few sides who we're supposed to beat easily (who we SHOULD be beating easily) and we go on to lose the game or draw with relegation fodder at home. This is followed by people using the "Still a long way to go" sentence like it's supposed to make you feel better. It's then pointed out that we dropped these silly points last season and didn't win the title, and then that in turn is greeted with some laughter, maybe someone using the imaginary word "knee-jerker", and you've probably guaranteed yourself a seat at the "negative/Rafa out" tea party for the rest of the season.

Bottom line is it's the same every year, and I'm absolutely fucking sick of it. You try to stay positive, you try to believe that it's going to happen this year, and you sit through the summer with a very specific picture in your head regarding what we need to make it come true. But it doesn't happen. YEAR ON FUCKING YEAR. This summer has come and gone, and I'm sorry if you disagree but we're weaker than last season. Don't care if you want to argue, you won't change my mind, we're weaker. Somehow, against all likelihood, when your main rivals lose two important players, we become weaker aswell. And I'm not going to get into an ownership debate, there are other threads for that, but the money has been nowhere to be seen this summer. Even if it WAS there I'm having second thoughts about whether it would be invested in the right areas.

I honestly feel like I'm stuck in a timewarp. Round and round and round we go, and we just can't get to the point where we've got everything sorted and we can grow from there. Last season was the closest I reckon we'll ever get, and not because Rafa won't get it right, it's not as simple as that, there are loads of reasons why I would feel that we just won't better it, Man City's money for a start. Laugh at that all you like, but they'll be more of a force than we will inside 2 years.

I feel like we've worked so fucking hard at everything, but it's just never enough. It's always going to be just beyond us, and no "Believe!" mantra is going to change that. And it's not a "knee-jerk reaction" (yes, it's just an adjective), it's been happening for 20 fucking years, it's hardly a knee-jerk reaction to think that you're not going to be winning the title again after 20 years.

I'd said before a ball was kicked that in all honesty I didn't see us winning it again this year. Before the summer and before Xabi left I felt like we would be going into it in a superb position, ready to dominate. But the summer for me just proved that we can't strengthen like the others can, and it's just been a massive disappointment. So it's not like I'm writing this solely on the back of one defeat, it's moreso as a preempting of what's about to be said. The same shite that's said every year, and I'm tired of hearing it.

Points dropped = less chance of title. Simple as that. Don't care who you are, that's how it goes. And I just don't need to hear how long there is to go. I don't need to hear that there's still 105 points to play for. I don't need to hear that the others will slip up too. I don't need to hear all those things because you've already said them all before, for the last 20 years. They've been said enough.

This is how i feel
"You have to admire animals. Hamster spun round in a wheel three times bigger than him and abruptly lands on his back. Then just gets up and carries on as if nothing happened! If that was a human he'd be helicoptered to hospital, off work for 6 months have back issues for 20 years and then start legal proceedings against the wheels owner"

Offline INABITSKI

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #197 on: August 24, 2009, 11:09:35 pm »
"It's over"

2 simple words uttered by a moron about an hour ago to all those watching on ESPN.
So there it is, word on the street from one of our lot, time to pack the bags up we are done and see you later.
It's just more ammo for the media and snipers out there to shoot the rest of us lot down. I'm as pissed off as anyone else tonight, but seriously what the hell goes on with these people. Sick of hearing them crying about another season over already and other such shite. They need a kick up the arse and talking to.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #198 on: August 25, 2009, 01:45:25 am »
"It's over"

2 simple words uttered by a moron about an hour ago to all those watching on ESPN.
So there it is, word on the street from one of our lot, time to pack the bags up we are done and see you later.
It's just more ammo for the media and snipers out there to shoot the rest of us lot down. I'm as pissed off as anyone else tonight, but seriously what the hell goes on with these people. Sick of hearing them crying about another season over already and other such shite. They need a kick up the arse and talking to.

That could just be a spur of the moment comment. Its disappointing to have already have lost as many games in the league this season as we did in the whole of last season and after years of trying, surely by now there is bound to be some pessimism when we lose to teams that we should beat.

Last season all these dropped points added up and even an amazing run from February and doing the double over Chelsea and Utd didnt help. Plus, before the season started, there seemed to be a wave of pessimism coming from the team and manager, for whatever reason.

Thats not to say that comments about us being out of it now arent silly, but after going through this same routine for the past few years, in terms of being able to win the title, there is bound to be people making these comments.


Offline INABITSKI

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Re: An in-depth look at knee-jerk thinking.
« Reply #199 on: August 25, 2009, 12:58:56 pm »
That could just be a spur of the moment comment. Its disappointing to have already have lost as many games in the league this season as we did in the whole of last season and after years of trying, surely by now there is bound to be some pessimism when we lose to teams that we should beat.

Last season all these dropped points added up and even an amazing run from February and doing the double over Chelsea and Utd didnt help. Plus, before the season started, there seemed to be a wave of pessimism coming from the team and manager, for whatever reason.

Thats not to say that comments about us being out of it now arent silly, but after going through this same routine for the past few years, in terms of being able to win the title, there is bound to be people making these comments.



It could well be a spur of the moment thing, just as we all sometimes need a bit of time to calm down and have a think. But then there is times you think what is going through these peoples heads when they are stood there giving these daft comments to reporters dying for you to say something they can churn over and over.
The best thing to do is ignore them and if we have anything to say, say it to the lads down the pub or whatever.

So we have lost 2 games, one of them at home for the first time in almost 2 years. By the looks of it a few things not going the way it should on and off the pitch but last thing we need is our support already chucking in the towel. We're right to ask questions and ponder over a few things, but to give up already? Wish they would piss off and follow the mancs.

Just to add... I will take 5 or 6 defeats if it meant going on and winning the league. It's just when you get those defeats.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 01:04:05 pm by INABITSKI »