Author Topic: Postponement of planned action  (Read 27533 times)

Offline OLDIE

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #40 on: August 8, 2009, 02:45:04 pm »
Some painful decisions lie ahead. All the top clubs no longer want supporters, they want customers. But the one thing that the rich and powerful fear is "the mob", remember the expenses scandal? It takes things getting ugly.

What we do need is a credible vehicle , whether it is our own "FC United" (  but i doubt if many would have the patience) or mre realistically a properly funded supporters group generating its own cash and power base.

Yes painful decisions lie ahead I dont accept that "the mob" mentality will work. You cite the recent expenses scandal, that was not a mob mentality at all. That was a national newspaper standing up for what is right and exposing those cheating twats. The nation rightly were disgusted and many of those MP's will lose their jobs.

Our situation is much more serious that 600+ cheating MP's.

Liverpool Football Club is no longer a club that relies on its gates and no longer has a scouse heartbeat, those days are well and truely over. Liverpool Football Club has become a global institution and chases the $, indeed the $ has become the sole ambition of our club.

Winning the league to us mere supporters is a dream that we all want to achieve to get to 19 before Manchester Utd is essential to us as we must maintain our status as the most decorated club in England. Winning the league to our owners is a means to their end. Therefore they have been happy to allow Rafa to spend in the transfer market to them its a no risk policy.

This speculating to accumulate though shall only be short term, and this transfer window so far has indicated that the policy has already shifted. Should we win the league it will mean millions of $ profit to our owners and at that stage they will be ripe for a take over.

We will never have owners who's first love is for the Club anymore, what we will have is owners who look for a profit. Its no use looking back and entering into the blame culture, Moores, Parry, Noel White or whoever is to blame whats the point in looking back save for taking lessons from their mistakes.

If we ALL accept that LFC is a business first and foremost then we will have a level playing field and that is when our owners will really begin to take notice and no just pay lip service.

SOS is a good start and Shareliverpool was a decent idea, if they joined forces publicly and privately then a combined commercial venture could begin. This venture could develop support throughout the world and gain credability.

Commercialising the supporters on behalf of the supporters becomes a real threat to the owners, a powerful commercial body will have more effect on their performance that a random march to the ground or a boycott of a match or anything of that ilk.

Sorry but boycott's and marches have been done by many supporters of different clubs and to be honest they are small time something that will blow over until the next one. Playing the fuckers at their own game however becomes a daily chore to them and eventually it will erode their desire to remain.

So they have fucked off and the commercial venture has become powerful what happens with the new owners etc, obvious fucking questions perhaps Mr Rogan Taylor could answer them after all he is the brainy one !. I think that a deal of part ownership would then come into play, hopefully one day we will get to that stage.

Offline paul j

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #41 on: August 8, 2009, 02:55:32 pm »
My seat's in the lower cent mid way between halfway line and kop.  Have toyed with changing it a few times but couldn't be assed.   It's a good spec.  10 rows from the pitch.

The average age of regular ST holders all around I'd say is 55+.  A lot come in with flasks and scones and such crap.

Raising interest among this lot re the ownership issue is like raising the titanic.

It'd be a great achievement to do it, but you know it's simply impossible.
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Offline maj

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #42 on: August 8, 2009, 03:08:22 pm »
As much as its hard for me to say this I will. We will not win the league under GG and Hicks. People can dream all they want. its a fantasy which fans have been living since we signed players that had to be paid for with bank loans under GG and Hicks. Our owners just want to make as much from the club through a scam which they are running by charging us over the odds interest for a loan which we should only be paying appx 5% per annum not the fucking 10% they are charging. Ask yourself, if you owned LFC would you charge 10% interest on so called loans you gave the club.?? They have no love for the club and their whole intention was to sell and now they are here for a while they want to make the profit they would have from a good sale by charging us over the odds interest. Karma has a way of dealing things, and if you have no love for something you will never succeed.GG and hicks have no love for LFC. Before anybody says im speculating I aint speculating shit, i have the numbers. Just like in the other thread when people said we are not paying appx 5% i came up and showed the figures.

its time people realised we are getting fucked over financially and started waking up. Rememeber when the titanic sunk, all those dozy prats kept on playing poker, and dancing and thought nothing of it. Oh thte titanic wont sink its only a iceberg. trust me if people on here think LFC can survive the way its going your just as bad as the people on the titanic who ended up drowning. The mere fact that we owe GG and Hicks interest money which is 10% of what they have supposedly already borrowed us not taking into account the new refinance money which they will class as loans to us through their company, you will see we are basically fucked. We cannot afford to pay them interest money.
« Last Edit: August 8, 2009, 03:11:01 pm by maj »

Offline xerxes1

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #43 on: August 8, 2009, 04:25:22 pm »
Maj, I agree with your pessimism.

Although the detail of your figures is up for debate, the gist is not. However, Directors loans at premium rates of interest have been aprt and parcel of football since the beginning. G&H are doing nothing new.
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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #44 on: August 8, 2009, 04:36:46 pm »
Didnt Moores take £350k odd in interest when he lent the club £10 million for Kuyt.
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Offline maj

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #45 on: August 8, 2009, 07:27:54 pm »
That was moores own money atleast he used money he had.

GG and Hicks havent used any of their own but money they got off rbs when they mortgaged us. So technically they have not become middlemen in finance. They have not put 1p of their own money into the club. Even money they put up 50 million each when they bought us was a letter of credit not hard cash.

Offline OLDIE

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #46 on: August 8, 2009, 07:49:15 pm »
That was moores own money atleast he used money he had.

GG and Hicks havent used any of their own but money they got off rbs when they mortgaged us. So technically they have not become middlemen in finance. They have not put 1p of their own money into the club. Even money they put up 50 million each when they bought us was a letter of credit not hard cash.

A confirmed irrevocable letter of credit is cash backed thus if they bought the club via this method then it was cash

Offline xerxes1

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #47 on: August 8, 2009, 09:30:06 pm »
. You cite the recent expenses scandal, that was not a mob mentality at all.

It was  mob fury which dircetly resulted in Julie Kirkdride, Andrew MacKay amd Douglas Hogg standing down. You  underestimate its power.
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Offline TSC

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #48 on: August 8, 2009, 10:57:02 pm »
Given the current situation; up to our necks in debt, owners don't get on, Hicks defaulting all over the place, no money for transfers.

Where is the fucking end game?  How can G&H possibly make money from us without a ground?

My seas tkt is in lower cent stand.  However for todays game I got a ticket with a mate in the main stand.

I've never been subject to such a poxy experience since the 80's.  How shite is the main stand?  Two catering areas to cater for thousands.  Hardly any toilets.  How can anyone enjoy paying circa £700 to sit in this shitehole?

And therein lies the 'funny' bit.  Where is our new ground you lying yankie bastards?

Offline Gedo

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #49 on: August 9, 2009, 03:07:57 pm »
Didnt Moores take £350k odd in interest when he lent the club £10 million for Kuyt.
In excess of 450k

Offline maj

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #50 on: August 9, 2009, 06:07:45 pm »
A confirmed irrevocable letter of credit is cash backed thus if they bought the club via this method then it was cash

The club was bought via a loan like a mortgage. I will confirm if it was a irrevocable letter of credit that they used for guarantees on their 50 million each which they had to put to down as chargeable if they defaulted.

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #51 on: August 10, 2009, 07:01:28 am »
Given the current situation; up to our necks in debt, owners don't get on, Hicks defaulting all over the place, no money for transfers.

Where is the fucking end game?  How can G&H possibly make money from us without a ground?

And therein lies the 'funny' bit.  Where is our new ground you lying yankie bastards?

Good question, what the fuck are they waiting for?

By Oliver Kay
Liverpool may have missed the chance to end Premier League title drought

Under normal circumstances, after a summer in which the purchases of Glen Johnson and Aquilani have been all but offset by sales, Rafael Benítez would be only too keen to point out such “facts”. For whatever reason, he has toed a diplomatic line, not making an issue of the fact that he has had to break even in the transfer market.

The frustration for Liverpool is that Benítez might only have needed a little support from Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr to effect the final shift in the balance of power, but the Americans’ priority this summer has been to pay the interest on the debts that they brought on the club. Great work, guys. And while we’re at it, how’s that stadium coming along?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 07:21:22 am by Lyndsey_LFC »
FOOTBALL IS A LIE! RAFAEL BENITEZ :-)

Offline No666

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #52 on: August 10, 2009, 08:52:13 am »
Well said Oli Kay. Just one bit of transfer support this summer and they can't even manage that.

Offline fry

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #53 on: August 10, 2009, 08:55:17 am »
:(
Disclaimer: The above post may not be based on facts even if stated as fact.

Offline No666

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #54 on: August 10, 2009, 09:18:48 am »
Just read someone on the main board who is annoyed that the news about the transfer budget has come out and saying now is not the time to criticise the owners. With brain-dead support like that, calling for any sort of action seems a tad optimistic.

Offline fry

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #55 on: August 10, 2009, 09:30:45 am »
Just read someone on the main board who is annoyed that the news about the transfer budget has come out and saying now is not the time to criticise the owners. With brain-dead support like that, calling for any sort of action seems a tad optimistic.
I read that and replied.  Optimistic aint the word.
Disclaimer: The above post may not be based on facts even if stated as fact.

Offline xerxes1

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #56 on: August 10, 2009, 09:44:27 am »
I had my one and only "ITK" transfer story at the start of the close season which was consistent with this.One of my friends is very good friends with Gareth Barry. Rafa wanted GB, and GB wanted to join us. City came in when Rafa was unable to raise early funds for either the fee or his wages. Rafa asked him to wait, but GB was fearful of last years scenario when he did wait, and nothing happened.
That is how tight and uncertain things have been.
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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #57 on: August 10, 2009, 10:19:40 am »
Does anyone have the answer to this question please?

No money,
No new players,
No new stadium,
No investor waiting to buy them out.

So what the fuck are they waiting for? What are they doing exactly? Does anyone know?
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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #58 on: August 10, 2009, 10:32:11 am »
They're treading water, whistling and hoping a boat comes along before they plunge to the bottom, Lynds. In the meantime we're in limbo.

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #59 on: August 10, 2009, 11:46:14 am »
Good question, what the fuck are they waiting for?

By Oliver Kay
Liverpool may have missed the chance to end Premier League title drought

Under normal circumstances, after a summer in which the purchases of Glen Johnson and Aquilani have been all but offset by sales, Rafael Benítez would be only too keen to point out such “facts”. For whatever reason, he has toed a diplomatic line, not making an issue of the fact that he has had to break even in the transfer market.

The frustration for Liverpool is that Benítez might only have needed a little support from Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr to effect the final shift in the balance of power, but the Americans’ priority this summer has been to pay the interest on the debts that they brought on the club. Great work, guys. And while we’re at it, how’s that stadium coming along?


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Offline maj

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #60 on: August 10, 2009, 04:07:17 pm »
nothing to worry about peeps were ok on the pitch...........

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #61 on: August 10, 2009, 04:08:04 pm »
nothing to worry about peeps were ok on the pitch...........

Bit sarcastic there Maj!

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #62 on: August 10, 2009, 04:15:17 pm »
Just read someone on the main board who is annoyed that the news about the transfer budget has come out and saying now is not the time to criticise the owners. With brain-dead support like that, calling for any sort of action seems a tad optimistic.

Thats what we're up against mate

Too many people dont give a fuck

As long as they get to buy the new replica, with their favourite name on the back (Premier league badges optional), and sit in the house or the boozer and watch the game to show everyone how big a red they are, they're happy

Its fucking disgusting and does my fucking nut in.
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Offline wednesday25052005

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #63 on: August 10, 2009, 04:15:18 pm »
What happened to the ITK on the offy saying we were deffo being bought out and if it was not so he would be falling out with the person who told him?

Also what happened to the person who was going the match on Saturday meeting a legend and going in the exec area with people who knows what's going on?

Not be funny or nothing but just wanted to know how all that worked out or didn't it happen?

Not taking the piss honest just really wish there was some good news out there as I'm really worried that we will in 18 months to two years max going to be fucked good and proper. :(
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 04:19:04 pm by wednesday25052005 »

Offline maj

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #64 on: August 10, 2009, 05:20:38 pm »
What happened to the ITK on the offy saying we were deffo being bought out and if it was not so he would be falling out with the person who told him?

Also what happened to the person who was going the match on Saturday meeting a legend and going in the exec area with people who knows what's going on?

Not be funny or nothing but just wanted to know how all that worked out or didn't it happen?

Not taking the piss honest just really wish there was some good news out there as I'm really worried that we will in 18 months to two years max going to be fucked good and proper. :(

The takeover talk is bullshit imo. Do you really think Ian Ayre is going to risk the wrath of Hicks and blurb out stuff about a takeover. Why woulod GG and Hicks sell they got a good  scam going at the moment by charging the club interest on so called loans their company is giving lfc when in reality its rbs money lol

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #65 on: August 10, 2009, 05:59:11 pm »
The takeover talk is bullshit imo. Do you really think Ian Ayre is going to risk the wrath of Hicks and blurb out stuff about a takeover. Why woulod GG and Hicks sell they got a good  scam going at the moment by charging the club interest on so called loans their company is giving lfc when in reality its rbs money lol

That makes no sense what so ever. RBS's loans must be paid before G&H can pay themselves. Considering they can only pay RBS by lending the club money how have they paid themselves?
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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #66 on: August 10, 2009, 06:43:36 pm »
Maj is much aggrieved by the concept of Directors loans, WLR.

Lyndsey asks what the game plan is. My view is this. The club pays for itself. Refinance in a years time with the increased level of equity now in the club should be no problem. TV income will likely continue to improve, as will the economy enabling G&H and Purslow to find a medium term solution to build the new stadium, natural momentum will keep the club going for another year or so without massive investment.

But the clouds gather on the horizon. How much will we miss Alonso? Will Mascherano stay beyong next summer? How much longer will Stevie G's box to box energy last? Will Torres attract interest back home post World Cup? We sleepwalked to disaster by not addressing our stadium soon enough off the pitch, will the same happen on the pitch?
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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #67 on: August 10, 2009, 07:06:15 pm »
Maj is much aggrieved by the concept of Directors loans, WLR.

Lyndsey asks what the game plan is. My view is this. The club pays for itself. Refinance in a years time with the increased level of equity now in the club should be no problem. TV income will likely continue to improve, as will the economy enabling G&H and Purslow to find a medium term solution to build the new stadium, natural momentum will keep the club going for another year or so without massive investment.

But the clouds gather on the horizon. How much will we miss Alonso? Will Mascherano stay beyong next summer? How much longer will Stevie G's box to box energy last? Will Torres attract interest back home post World Cup? We sleepwalked to disaster by not addressing our stadium soon enough off the pitch, will the same happen on the pitch?

I think your over simplifying the section in bold. The club was about £30 million short of being self financing, and I cant see how paying off £60 million of debt will significantly reduce that. The natural momentum is under threat from Man City, maybe not this year but next year they will be challenging for a top 4 place and either us or Arsenal are going to get royaly fucked.

Also, theres tnnbd's point about how will the club finance itself during the actual 3 year construction of the stadium?

I've always said that the team can go a year without much investment, two and your pushing it. Last year we didnt invest that much once you take Keane's departure in to account, and if its the same this year it will catch up with us if we dont invest next year or the year after lets say.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 07:11:52 pm by west_london_red »
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Offline maj

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #68 on: August 10, 2009, 07:14:46 pm »
Maj is much aggrieved by the concept of Directors loans, WLR.

Lyndsey asks what the game plan is. My view is this. The club pays for itself. Refinance in a years time with the increased level of equity now in the club should be no problem. TV income will likely continue to improve, as will the economy enabling G&H and Purslow to find a medium term solution to build the new stadium, natural momentum will keep the club going for another year or so without massive investment.

But the clouds gather on the horizon. How much will we miss Alonso? Will Mascherano stay beyong next summer? How much longer will Stevie G's box to box energy last? Will Torres attract interest back home post World Cup? We sleepwalked to disaster by not addressing our stadium soon enough off the pitch, will the same happen on the pitch?

Lets not forget the manager will more than likely get pissed off with false promises.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 07:27:52 pm by maj »

Offline dh21974

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #69 on: August 10, 2009, 09:51:09 pm »
Moores could have had us a new stadium built years ago. If he wasn't such a greedy bastard. The damage to our club was done many moons ago. It's not hust down to Hicks and Gillette. They are just carrying on from Moores and Parry. That's why they can't understand what all the fuss is about. We never gave them stick when we should have.

Offline maj

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #70 on: August 10, 2009, 09:56:52 pm »
Moores could have had us a new stadium built years ago. If he wasn't such a greedy bastard. The damage to our club was done many moons ago. It's not hust down to Hicks and Gillette. They are just carrying on from Moores and Parry. That's why they can't understand what all the fuss is about. We never gave them stick when we should have.

sunderlands stadium cost appx 30  million to build. They have a bigger capacity than us aswell.

Offline dh21974

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #71 on: August 10, 2009, 10:04:25 pm »
My point exactly Maj.

Offline maj

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #72 on: August 10, 2009, 10:07:36 pm »
My point exactly Maj.

its a shambles mate

Offline dh21974

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #73 on: August 10, 2009, 10:26:48 pm »
What gets me is, all the people who are organising these protests going on about most fans not turning up. This isn't an overnight thing that's happened. You should have been protesting fucking years ago. That's why people nowadays, especially the older generations will never support the likes of it. Because EVERYONE never gave a toss about how the club was being rundown years ago. Maybe if we had  payed more attention to what Moores was up to, we wouldn't be in the shit now. I mean when is it going to end? Who's to say if we do get a new owner that they won't be as bad as we've got now or worse? What happens then? More protests? Wise up lads!

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #74 on: August 10, 2009, 10:28:09 pm »
What gets me is, all the people who are organising these protests going on about most fans not turning up. This isn't an overnight thing that's happened. You should have been protesting fucking years ago. That's why people nowadays, especially the older generations will never support the likes of it. Because EVERYONE never gave a toss about how the club was being rundown years ago. Maybe if we had  payed more attention to what Moores was up to, we wouldn't be in the shit now. I mean when is it going to end? Who's to say if we do get a new owner that they won't be as bad as we've got now or worse? What happens then? More protests? Wise up lads!

Any potential buyer will not touch us at the moment.

Offline dh21974

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #75 on: August 10, 2009, 10:32:31 pm »
A class example of how to make a bad situation worse. Leave the politics to the politicians. We are supposed to be Liverpool SUPPORTERS not detractors. The owners are not for leaving and don't think for a minute that when and if they do it will have anything to do with protests. They will leave for the same reason as Moores. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Nothing less will do. I know a lot of people feel compelled to do something to try and get us out of this mess, why should you? The very people who are organising these protests sat on their arses for years and did fuck all while Moores was at the helm. He was going to build a new stadium, he made money from the club via loans. Not a thing done or said to him. Hypocrites.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 10:43:18 pm by dh21974 »

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #76 on: August 11, 2009, 04:05:37 pm »
Lets not forget the manager will more than likely get pissed off with false promises.

£100,000 a week and a long contract seem to have him in good humour.
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Offline St3ve76

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #77 on: August 11, 2009, 04:29:17 pm »
dh you'll probably find that most fans realised that Moores was looking to sell to the right buyer which is why the fans didn't react to the lack of forward thinking.
The two twats who came in and promised promised promised. What have we seen come to reality is a big F all !!! Two lying pricks who are raping the club for all it's worth. That's why protest are being organised !!!!

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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #78 on: August 11, 2009, 09:21:30 pm »
Can all you people who are defending our erstwhile and thieving custodians please remind yourselves what it is they said when they bought our club...

"We will not do a Manchester United and put debt on Liverpool Footbal Club"  Tom Hicks, 2007

Hmmm.
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Re: Postponement of planned action
« Reply #79 on: August 11, 2009, 09:32:33 pm »
Can all you people who are defending our erstwhile and thieving custodians please remind yourselves what it is they said when they bought our club...

"We will not do a Manchester United and put debt on Liverpool Footbal Club"  Tom Hicks, 2007

Hmmm.


Indeed.  That is all there needs to be said, and put succinctly.

So cut away all the verbosity of mergered acquisitions, LBO's, whether transfer deals are paid in 10% or 20% instalments, whether this years accounts are more accurate than lasts..........

The simple fact is we were grabbed by conmen with no real money (as I or anyone in real conditions understands real money to be), no assets worth a fuck, no integrity, no intention of living up to their promises. Do they understand what a promise is?