Author Topic: You must be mad!  (Read 1836 times)

Offline Andy G

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You must be mad!
« on: January 28, 2004, 02:12:44 PM »
The age of technology has given us the opportunity to express our feelings about players, past and present.  There are therefore times when someone slags off a player who I thought did not deserve it, on whatever scale (i.e. he was a disgrace when I thought he was not so bad, up to he was OK I suppose when I thought he was great.

What players do you have a soft spot for, but you know others feel differently about?  And also, who do you think is totally underrated and is not held in the esteem that you feel they deserve, or never even mentioned when you think they should be?
Here's a few of mine:

John Barnes - I know that everyone/most people on this website apprecite him, I would go so far as to say that in '88 and '89 seasons, he is the greatest player I ever saw....including Kenny (but Kenny is my all time greatest), but when people have a go because of his England performances, it really pisses me off.  Basically, what it boils down to is that they listened to the press and made him the scapegoat for Graham Taylor's time there (although I also think that Taylor, and Robson before him, got a rough deal).

Julian Dicks - Much better player than people give him credit for.  Was not fantastic for us, but does not deserve such derogatory statements.

Ronnie Whelan - Everyone always talks about Souness, McDermott, McMahon and others (and rightly so), but for me Whelan was one of the greatest players I ever saw.

Rob Jones - Probably the finest right back I have ever seen, and although he is appreciated, I think under-rated.

Jimmy Carter - only joking, the bloke was wank!

Craig Johnstone - He admitted himself he was not so good, I disagree.  One of our greats and seldome mentioned.

Micheal Owen - I cannot question his talent and it makes my blood boil when people do (although they are shot down in flames on every website I have ever seen such comments on)

Paul Stewart - now here's a controversial one.  I agree that he did not set the world on fire, but when he played in the middle of midfeild for us, he did not do so bad.  Take your mind back to how it was at the time.  He had some great games for us there, and doesn;t deserve to be in the "total wankers" hall of fame.

David Fairclough - Everyone knows him as supersub and rates him as that (and therefore not good enough to make the starting 11), but he played something like 50 goals in 150 games (yes many coming on as sub) but his record is comparable with, say, Peter Beardsley's, who I also have as a great.

Peter Beardsley - One of the finest and most influential players in our greatest footballing side (I use those words carefully (saw '77 onwards, but when it comes to the best football....).

I know there are players that you feel the same about, and would be interested to find out who they are (not a cue for xxxxx's shite by the way, we've done it all before)
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Offline Byrnee

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2004, 02:16:17 PM »
Agree with some of those.


Torben Piechnik was wank tho.


 ;D


Rob Jones was amazing, so sorry injuries ruined him. (Could say the same for Redders, how long before he retires? Such a shame).
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Bill Shankly


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At The End Of The Storm I

Offline AdamS

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2004, 02:16:17 PM »

Rob Jones - Probably the finest right back I have ever seen, and although he is appreciated, I think under-rated.


Agree there. I think RJ was excellent (although not the best I've ever seen)

Had a kind of Igor-esque admiration for Torben if I'm honest. His pre-match warm up when he would head the ball for miles was class ;D

How many votes for Mad Erik???? ;)
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Offline AdamS

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2004, 02:18:02 PM »
Two slightly different views of TP posted at exactly the same time (to the second ;))
If A is a success in life, than A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut.

Offline Byrnee

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2004, 02:19:44 PM »
Great minds Monkey....


(... disagree but post at the same time!).
'Liverpool was made for me and I was made for Liverpool.'
Bill Shankly


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Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2004, 02:42:05 PM »
I suppose a lot depends on what type of player you like.
What type of player you were.

I haven't admired flashy players in the past, who only play for 20 minutes a game.
There has been hundreds
Stan Bowles
Rodney Marsh
Hoddle and Waddle
Duncan McKenzie was probably one of the blues examples.
Great entertainers every one of them.

But I love Grit and Determination.
A player who will fight for 90 minutes.
A player who would die for the cause.

I played most of my career in midfield and defence and have over the years selected my favourite players from these areas.

People loved Hunt, I loved Stevenson
People loved St John, I loved Tommy Smith.
Whereas people loved our first ever "twisty Turny" Peter Thompson, I chose YEATS.

It's been that way for a long time.
Favourites like
Lindsay
Lawler
Byrne
Yeats
Smith
Crazy horse
Stevenson
R Kennedy
Souness
McMahon
Molby
Nicol
Hanson
Right down to Steve Gerrard now.

Yes we have had loads of brilliant players in those times, but selections of favourites is a personal thing.

Barnes is a classic example.
He was no doubt one of the most gifted players we have ever had at Anfield.
But he was never a favourite of mine.

Each to his own.

My Father has chosen Three players over his life time (70 years) as his all time players.
Liddell (where I got my interest from)
Keegan
Dalglish

I only started going in the 60's, If I had to name three now, it would be

Tommy Smith
Graeme Souness
Steve Gerrard

These are the 3 most influential players in my lifetime so far, in my opinion.
I dont expect people to agree with my choices, but no one will change my mind.

SORRY FORGOT TO ADD
My arl fellah was a striker.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2004, 02:44:31 PM by WOOLTONIAN »
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Offline Andy G

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2004, 03:05:10 PM »
Wooltonian,

I don't think anyone can argue with your favourites, although I have not seen Lawler, Byrne
or Yeats play, but there might be players you have a soft spot for, but you feel don't have the appreciation of others.  If so, would love to hear who.
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Offline AdamS

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2004, 03:10:44 PM »
Wooltonian

I bet Stevie would love to know that he is being talked about among those names by fans like yourself!
If A is a success in life, than A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut.

Offline Filler.

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2004, 03:14:27 PM »
If I was to pick out any of the players mentioned above to be genetically spliced and return to play in our team now, it would be Whelan.

(actually, thats bollocks, I'd get the scientists working on alot of those above, but Whelan for me, is No.1)

Offline Vinay

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2004, 10:08:24 PM »
You gotta dd in Jim Beglin!! (What is it with our Right Backs eh?) :butt

Offline Tetti

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2004, 12:45:14 AM »
You gotta dd in Jim Beglin!! (What is it with our Right Backs eh?) :butt

Thought Beglin was great, never forgot that break  :puke

I guess I should mention Bruno Cheyrou here, as until this month, I just got laughed at.

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Offline capt k

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2004, 06:57:50 AM »
carra.................

ive always rated him{ because i was in the same mould as a player,no show pony but determined,much the same as karl was saying i spose}

ive been defending him against my brother for the last 3 years
and TODAY when we caught up he was eating large slices of humble pie
acknowledging carra's true role

craig johnston was a player i never overly like'd but he fell into the same sort of category.hard work ethic was the only thing{ imho} that kept his place..
JFT 96

Offline Armin

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2004, 10:13:11 AM »
Paul Stewart - now here's a controversial one.  I agree that he did not set the world on fire, but when he played in the middle of midfeild for us, he did not do so bad.  Take your mind back to how it was at the time.  He had some great games for us there, and doesn;t deserve to be in the "total wankers" hall of fame.

Andy, please listen carefully.  You have been the victim of severe head trauma.  There is a risk that tour core reasoning ability has been impaired, your memory may also be playing tricks upon you.  Stay awake at all costs and  seek immediate medical attention.  Whatever you do, don't go into the light!

 :P
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Offline MichaelA

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2004, 10:22:19 AM »
Whelan.

Offline Life

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2004, 11:09:57 AM »
Nigel Clough.  Always tried hard, and had a hard job replacing Beardsley.
"Why should they be used in any other way? It wouldn'a be fair for one thing. Natural ability is far too precious tae be messed about wi'."

Offline Walshy nMe®

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2004, 11:20:12 AM »
Whelan.

As in - not good enough?  :o :o  :butt

We could do with a couple of Ronnie Whelan's right about now

Offline MichaelA

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2004, 11:31:17 AM »
As in - not good enough?  :o :o  :butt

We could do with a couple of Ronnie Whelan's right about now

I thought the thread was about under rated players?  ???

Ronnie never gets mentioned with the other players of that era, but was an invaluable and under rated player.  :wave

Offline Walshy nMe®

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2004, 11:36:58 AM »
I thought the thread was about under rated players?  ???


Sorry was under rated wasn't it.  If only i could still clap ;D

Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2004, 12:04:01 PM »
Wooltonian,

I don't think anyone can argue with your favourites, although I have not seen Lawler, Byrne
or Yeats play, but there might be players you have a soft spot for, but you feel don't have the appreciation of others.  If so, would love to hear who.

I think I'd have to select Sammy Lee.
At the time, he came in for a lot of stick as being a very ordinary player.
I was amongst those who criticised him.
He was one of the few if not the only one to be capped at the time, from memory.
But toward the end of his career, I and many others began to appreciate all the effort he put into games.
Souness always took the plaudits, but it was always Lee who gave him the ball.
Lee could find Souey with his eyes shut.
He either won the ball in midfield from the opposition or took it from one of our defenders.
No matter where he got the ball from he passed to Graeme.
Made me wonder how influential Souness would have been, if it wasn't for Lee getting him the ball.
I recently watched Sammy run a training session and he still has all the enthusiasm he had in his playing days.
He in my mind is one of the best coaches in the prem.
It's nice to see England finally recognising his talents and making him part of the current International set up.
I hope he stays with the club for his career, but wish him every luck if he ever ventures into management.

Wiilie Stevenson would be another choice of mine.
While all around him received praise, it was rare to hear Willie's name being called from the kop in the early days.
Hunt and St John took all the praise from the kop.
If I had to compare him with a more recent player, he was at least equal to Ray Kennedy.
Wiilie was a very cultured player, he had a grace about the way he strolled around the left flank, supplying deadly through passes for the strikers or wingers of the day.
In my opinion, which some may doubt or knock, Willie Stevenson won us the FA Cup in 1965.
If you ever get a chance to watch the game, concentrate of Stevo's performance, it was awesome.

Nearest thing I've come to admiring a very delicate player, must be Peter Cormack.
He looked like a knot in cotton.
He had a very funny gait, he always appeared to be running on his tip toes.
To me he was not the Liverpool type when I first saw him play, but over the years I began to appreciate his obvious talents.

Hope thats enough

Wool
« Last Edit: January 29, 2004, 01:31:23 PM by WOOLTONIAN »
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Offline Andy G

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2004, 12:32:13 PM »
Cheers Wooltonian,

I remember Lee's whole career, but I was only a kid/teenager, so they were all  great to me, but saying that, I loved Lee.  Rememeber his debut (I think) against Norwich away when he was through on goal and if he went down it would have been a penalty, but he didn't because he didn;t think like that?  Twat! Only joking.  Even Jimmy Hill commented on  his enthusiasm  then, and it never died.  He sis well  in spain, but I agree with you that I am glad he is  back with us in a coaching capacity, a future manager perhaps?

I didn;t forget about Ray Kennedy,  how could I?  But my  Auntie Peg used to slag him off so much saying he was lazy.  That is not how I saw it, he is possibly the greatest left side midfielders I have ever seen that is not in the winger mould.

I don't know your age and all that, but you've been around  the block even moire than me and thought you might say Jimmy Melia.   It has only been over the last 2 years or so, hearing/reading what people have spoke/written about him that I  realise he was such a fantastic player.  Always knew the name, but never appreciated what a star he was for us.

Another one I thought of today, who is totally appreciated by not only us, but other fans too, but yet still under-rated in my opinion;  Steve Nicol.  A player being versitile is a great attribute, a sort of Daly Thompson figure, but Nicol was one of the greatest in whatever position he played.  A truly wonderful player.
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Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2004, 01:36:21 PM »
Alf Arrowsmith's career will always have old reds in tears.
He burst on to the seen from nowhere and was one of the greatest strikers in the making.
His career was tragically cut short by injury.

Until they erect a 50' Red Granite Statue of Billy Liddell, I dont think he has been given the credit he deserves.
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Offline koolkamal

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2004, 09:14:48 PM »
There are alot of players, who I favoured more then others, but most will be from recent times, from what I can remember.
My favourite players were, Fowler, Macca x2, Berger, Whelan, Molby, Rush, Westerveld (wierd i know), Litmanen, etc, but my absolute favourites were:

Rob Jones: Could have gone on to be one of the greatest fullbacks in the game if it werent for injuries ruining his career.

Redknapp: One of the most talented midfielders I've seen, also one of the best passers of the ball (some might not agree with that), I also use to love the way he use to switch the play from left to right, could have also gone on to be one of the greatest midfielders we've ever had, and we have had soem great midfielders.

But my absolute favourite player was, Barnes, what can I say about him except that it was like he was born to play football. Could be classified in the top five of Liverpools all time greatest players.

Its a pity that so many of Liverpools players that were set for greatness, had so many injury problems, especially recently. Rob Jones, Redknapp, Fowler (although most even me could classify him as great, but if it werent for injuries he could have gone on to be the greatest), berger (thunderous left foot), Heggem (One of the most attacking fullbacks I've seen, he looked more like a right winger then a fullbakck :D
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Offline Tony19:6

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2004, 09:24:38 PM »
Steve Nicol was our best right back and left back for that matter
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It is terribly simple."

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Offline Andy G

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2004, 03:30:49 AM »
Andy, please listen carefully.  You have been the victim of severe head trauma.  There is a risk that tour core reasoning ability has been impaired, your memory may also be playing tricks upon you.  Stay awake at all costs and  seek immediate medical attention.  Whatever you do, don't go into the light!

 :P

 ;D
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Offline John Barnes Testicles

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2004, 05:44:51 AM »
Who did you think I was going to pick?

John Barnes.

I can't think of any other player that made my mouth water more whenever they got the ball.  It didn't even matter if the moves he made paid off or not, it was always exciting to watch him work his magic with the ball.

Before that, Ronnie Whelan.  When I was at school playing footie at lunch, all the other kids would be Dalglish and the like - but I was always Ronnie. 
« Last Edit: January 31, 2004, 05:46:54 AM by jonbarnestesticles »

Offline hide5seek

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2004, 09:25:59 AM »
Most under rated player for me would definitely be Ronnie Whelan.

The guy was absolute genuine 100% quality.
Gave his all every game. Knitted defence and mid field together like no one else I've ever watched.
Could tackle like a tiger as well.
Powerful shot. Run all day.

Jesus I don't think there was anything Ronnie Whelan couldn't do.

Definitely IMHO the greatest, most under rated mid field player we had.
I class him better than Souness.
For one thing he never fucked off and left us for sunnier climes.
And didn't come back as manager and shag us rotten

Cheers Graeme :upyours :upyours :upyours :upyours

Offline MC-Red

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2004, 10:00:02 AM »
Out of people not mentioned a lot i always liked Emlyn Hughs for his leadership.


Offline Rashid

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2004, 10:27:58 AM »
Roy Evans team was underrated, I agree they were bottlers but people use those players to hype up Houllier.

James, Jones, Ruddock, Scales, Bjornebye, McManaman, Berger, Redknapp, Barnes, Collymore and Fowler is not a bad side.

But some of those players are ridiculed today, yet they never finished below 4th. I grew up with that team so maybe I am biased but they do not deserve the stick they get as footballers.

 ;D

Offline AdamS

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2004, 11:16:37 AM »
Roy Evans team was underrated, I agree they were bottlers but people use those players to hype up Houllier.

Totally relevant post to this thread Rashid ;D :wave
If A is a success in life, than A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut.

Offline Mottman

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #29 on: February 1, 2004, 12:23:58 AM »
You must be mad
around the bend
cos you tried to take
the Annie Road end.

We are the Annie, Annie Road end
na na na na na na na nana na na na

United tried, and 30 died
cos were the pride of Merseyside.


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Offline Dan_L

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Re: You must be mad!
« Reply #30 on: February 1, 2004, 11:30:40 AM »
The Road End United Will Never Be Defeated!