Topic: SPOILERS The Chainless Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon Discussion

[Skuzzlebutt]

There's heterosexual sex in it too, isn't it? And lots more of it, I might add. While I'm not gay, I'm not a homophobe and I think all sex in this series has its purpose, just as all the brutal slaughterings in it have. Staggering people in the 21st century are still grossed out by this, but alright.

Read the whole thread Mr PC.  I've been moaning about the general sexual scenes in this show since the pilot.  I'll say it agin, if I want soft Porn I'll fucking watch it, I watch these things for stories and that's it.  I completely disagree with your facile analysis about them being relevant to the story, how was the slurping noises relevant to the story?  Was it an integral part of both characters story arcs, did it fill in something we already didn't know about them?  Did it give us some good back story information?  Did it fuck.

But hey you're a 21st Century guy, so I guess you're right and I'm wrong.

[LiverLuke]

felt a bit sad when ned starks loyal guard got killed (forget his name), quite brutally too.

[Mouth]

Read the whole thread Mr PC.  I've been moaning about the general sexual scenes in this show since the pilot.  I'll say it agin, if I want soft Porn I'll fucking watch it, I watch these things for stories and that's it.  I completely disagree with your facile analysis about them being relevant to the story, how was the slurping noises relevant to the story?  Was it an integral part of both characters story arcs, did it fill in something we already didn't know about them?  Did it give us some good back story information?  Did it fuck.

But hey you're a 21st Century guy, so I guess you're right and I'm wrong.

I agree, if it was a hetro blowjob the slurping would of been over the top.

Although I can see in terms of the character development of the blonde girl the sexual content was relevant, although a little over done. But her learning how to shag the barbarian is part of her growing empowerment and self realisation that she is the power on the throne not her brother.

[Bob Loblaw]

So everything that happens has to have some relevance to the plot? I don't think there's a TV show, or movie in existence where that's the case. It's graphic, gory, gratuitous. That's the show. Deal with it.

[Mouth]

So everything that happens has to have some relevance to the plot? I don't think there's a TV show, or movie in existence where that's the case. It's graphic, gory, gratuitous. That's the show. Deal with it.

To a degree yes, and in particular with sex scenes, otherwise its pointless titilation.

[The Flying Pig]

felt a bit sad when ned starks loyal guard got killed (forget his name), quite brutally too.

Jory Cassel.

[Skuzzlebutt]

To a degree yes, and in particular with sex scenes, otherwise its pointless titilation.

Exactly and then you're spending 45 mins watching people shagging, it's not so much that EVERY scene has to have plot lines or back story or whatever.  I've been wowed by some of the panaramic shots of the kingdom, the scene where Ned was washing his blade in the river in the first episode with the tree behind him was one of the nicest framed scenes I've seen in television.  The sets are incredible, the Imps prison cell with no wall but a sheer drop was awesome, when Neds daughter got out of the lower sections of the City and came out to the bay was brilliant too.

I'm not being a prude or anything but even the Soprano's never had this much shagging in it and they had a whole season of a Gay story arc with Vito Spattafore and Tony was banging women like he was sponsored by Viagra, the Soprano's though kept the shagging scenes short, these seem to be prolonged and extremely graphic, one guy had his knob out in the last episode.  I watch a fair amount of TV but I can't remember seeing a scene with a guy's cock out in ANY TV show I've watched before.

In general though the Story is brilliant so far and I can't wait to see what happens next.  If they toned it down a bit, it could be the perfect series.

[Redcap]

Serious question Skuzzlebutt, and something you might have mentioned earlier in the thread but which I've missed- do you also have a problem with the level of violence in this show? Or is it just the sex?

[MagicHat]

To a degree yes, and in particular with sex scenes, otherwise its pointless titilation.

Agreed. Also with Skuzzlebutt though have seen cocks out before, can't recall where but a couple of times anyway. If your going to go all the way, have a reason for it other then titillate the viewers or trying to shock people.

[RojoLeón]

Agreed. Also with Skuzzlebutt though have seen cocks out before, can't recall where but a couple of times anyway. If your going to go all the way, have a reason for it other then titillate the viewers or trying to shock people.

To be fair, the violence and sex is already toned down from the book. A second series is on the good to go.
If what you have seen so far makes you queasy/prudish then it's only going to get worse.

(I don't remember Loras and Renley being gay in the books mind - Maybe is artistic licence?)

[hyypia04]

(I don't remember Loras and Renley being gay in the books mind - Maybe is artistic licence?)

It's never openly stated in the books, but it's definitely hinted at if you read between the lines.

[RojoLeón]

It's never openly stated in the books, but it's definitely hinted at if you read between the lines.

It's certainly not hinted at in the TV adaption!

[LiverLuke]

It's certainly not hinted at in the TV adaption!

 

the horse bit i found weirder and more disturbing than the human beheadhings, not sure why, it was just a bit weird..

[hyypia04]

It's certainly not hinted at in the TV adaption!

Haha. Very true. I think it would've been better if they'd have done it subtly like in the the books, but obviously the folks at HBO thought it would be better to hit the viewers over the head with it instead - initially by making them both far camper than in the books and then creating the now infamous 'slurping' scene.

[RojoLeón]

the horse bit i found weirder and more disturbing than the human beheadhings, not sure why, it was just a bit weird..

Is weird that. Me too. We rarely see animals done like that (cgi, special effects or whatever) because the animal rights fuckers get ther knickers in a twist. Of course, human animals don't count in their reckoning!

[Trada]

Is weird that. Me too. We rarely see animals done like that (cgi, special effects or whatever) because the animal rights fuckers get ther knickers in a twist. Of course, human animals don't count in their reckoning!

I can remember all the outrage about Heavens gate when they blow up cows.

I'm starting to really get into the show how and the sex scenes don't bother me in one bit not even the gay one I just thought it must be in the books.

[Gili Gulu]

I've been wowed by some of the panaramic shots of the kingdom, the scene where Ned was washing his blade in the river in the first episode

[RojoLeón]

I'm starting to really get into the show how and the sex scenes don't bother me in one bit not even the gay one I just thought it must be in the books.

Maybe it's just me but I quite enjoy the ladies in the sex scenes! (is that wrong of me to say out loud?)
The Renly and Loras one I found a bit strange (it being an invention of the TV adaptation and therefore perhaps most gratuitious of all) but it's not like they were teabagging or felching or anything graphic like that.

As long as they even the score with some of the lesbian action (as portrayed in the books and critical to the plot!), I don't mind at all

[RojoLeón]

Some of those back drops are in Down, near the Mourne mountains. The cgi helps too like!

[Trada]

Very Lord of the Rings.

[Redcap]

Agreed. Also with Skuzzlebutt though have seen cocks out before, can't recall where but a couple of times anyway. If your going to go all the way, have a reason for it other then titillate the viewers or trying to shock people.

I think there's as much reason for showing as much sex as they do, as showing as much violence as they do. They serve exactly the same purpose. It's a very mature and dark fantasy series, which definitely pushes the limits regarding the depictions of both violence and sex. It's consistent with the world Martin created, so really I think the opposite is true. If they had pulled any punches regarding the sex, it would have been seen as prudish.

Regarding the 'slurping' scene. My thoughts are that because that detail was left between the lines in the novels, the producers had a choice of either shelving it all together or making it quite clear. Evidently they decided to go with the latter. I shouldn't have to quailfy this comment by saying "I'm not gay," but there it is. The scene did make me feel a bit uncomfortable but logically speaking there wasn't anything particularly wrong about it either.

[shanklyohoh]

I think there's as much reason for showing as much sex as they do, as showing as much violence as they do. They serve exactly the same purpose. It's a very mature and dark fantasy series, which definitely pushes the limits regarding the depictions of both violence and sex. It's consistent with the world Martin created, so really I think the opposite is true. If they had pulled any punches regarding the sex, it would have been seen as prudish.

...or they're trying to be as graphic as possible to shock, titillate and stir controversy as much as they can for the sake of viewership/reputation.

[Redcap]

...or they're trying to be as graphic as possible to shock, titillate and stir controversy as much as they can for the sake of viewership/reputation.

The question for me is, does it detract from the quality of the production? The answer for me is no.

Besides.. do people really buy premium cable for titillation? I would have thought that the reputation of HBO for being the best and most consistent producer of original programming.. probably in television history, would be a rather bigger draw.

[RojoLeón]

I think there's as much reason for showing as much sex as they do, as showing as much violence as they do. They serve exactly the same purpose. It's a very mature and dark fantasy series, which definitely pushes the limits regarding the depictions of both violence and sex. It's consistent with the world Martin created, so really I think the opposite is true. If they had pulled any punches regarding the sex, it would have been seen as prudish.

Exactly - this isn't the Animals of Farthing Wood here.

The book(s) portrays a realm which is very brutal and uncompromising. There is a lot of murder, backstabbing/duplicitousness, battle in all its visceral, skull-splitting (and often) unpleasantness, forced marrages, underage sex (Daenerys Targaryen is 13 at the beginning), rape and other brutality.

...or they're trying to be as graphic as possible to shock, titillate and stir controversy as much as they can for the sake of viewership/reputation.

Had they made an adaptation of The Animals of Fathing Wood then the gratuity could be called into question.

I would argue that it is, in fact toned down for the most part.
I think it looks great and there are some stunning looking actresses there. I personally prefer to see naked breasts than graphic violence, but hey-ho, that's just me.
If I wanted to I can see better/worse on youtube (or other sites) to be fair.
But, then again, this show isn't derived from material as stuffy and chaste as Lord of the Rings (which I love tbf. movies and books)

[MagicHat]

Yet HBO, who do excellent shows, have tended to show a lot of breasts and sex in my expirence. Not always with it being vital to the story either. I accept that in this case, HBO have reigned in the content and I apologise for what I said on the subject earlier.

The question for me is, does it detract from the quality of the production? The answer for me is no.

As a general rule, if it feels like nudity/voilence is added for voilence/nudity's sake, I do feel it cheapens things. I'm happy to accept nearly anything if it feels like it is in there for character or story development though.

[Redcap]

I'm happy to accept nearly anything if it feels like it is in there for character or story development though.

That can be a fine line to tread though. For instance let's take the example of

Spoiler

The 'Mountain' decapitating the horse. Or, of Jaime stabbing Jory Cassel through the eye.

[close]

Both instances are utterly brutal, which would quite possibly earn a lot of movies in Australia an MA15+ rating, if not an R rating on their own.

And yet, would you describe them as gratuitous? In the context of this story and these characters, I don't think they are. That's how I feel about the sex as well.

[RojoLeón]

Gregor Clegane eh?! There's a monster!

There are some 'happenings around him that don't bear repeting! If they ever do flashbacks then they will have to 'hint at' or 'suggest' some of his activities.

Spoiler

Rhaegar Targaryen's young family 

[close]

[Uhoh AureliOs]

No sex please, We're Amoeboid Zingatularians.

[MagicHat]

Redcap,

Spoiler

Horsey: didn't seem too gory anyway and thought it made sense. Second one, thought it kept well within the line and wasn't as if the show was going all Mortal Kombat. Or slow downs with buckets and buckets of blood.

[close]

Maybe having watched the Spartacus prequel means Game of Thrones can't be too violent for awhile
 

[Skuzzlebutt]

Serious question Skuzzlebutt, and something you might have mentioned earlier in the thread but which I've missed- do you also have a problem with the level of violence in this show? Or is it just the sex?

I think the fact that the show is about political and geographical jockeying for the subjegation of the land there's always going to be violence to one degree or another, so I expected that when I decided to watch the show, although to give you a straight answer it doesn't bother me in the slightest.  And I don't mind sex scenes in TV or film in general but the creators are trying to tell back story and set characters WHILE the characters are having sex, now I don't know about you but I have a strict procedure for sex which involves begging before and polite conversation afterwards, I'm usualy too busy in the middle bit to discuss political or historical events.

Some of the sex scenes have been necessary to the story like the Lannister Brother and Sister being caught by the boy, the whole Dothraki wedding thing showed different elements of the characters, i.e. the vulnerability of the girl, the ambitious and Vile nature of her brother etc.  The Imp with the whores showed more sides of his character with excesses of women and alcohol and I don't mind that.  These things move the story on, they add to it.  In the last one they felt as if they were there just for the sake of it.

[Niru Red4ever]

felt a bit sad when ned starks loyal guard got killed (forget his name), quite brutally too.

Toughen your heart then. Things are gonna get a lot worse.

Btw, did I miss something in the books? Where was it ever pointed out that the Loras Tyrell  and Renly were an item; or indeed the Knight of Flowers  or Renly were gay?

EDIT: Saw this being discussed earlier. Why would they make it so explicit is not understandable.

[Henry Chinaski]

I think the fact that the show is about political and geographical jockeying for the subjegation of the land there's always going to be violence to one degree or another, so I expected that when I decided to watch the show, although to give you a straight answer it doesn't bother me in the slightest.  And I don't mind sex scenes in TV or film in general but the creators are trying to tell back story and set characters WHILE the characters are having sex, now I don't know about you but I have a strict procedure for sex which involves begging before and polite conversation afterwards, I'm usualy too busy in the middle bit to discuss political or historical events.

Some of the sex scenes have been necessary to the story like the Lannister Brother and Sister being caught by the boy, the whole Dothraki wedding thing showed different elements of the characters, i.e. the vulnerability of the girl, the ambitious and Vile nature of her brother etc.  The Imp with the whores showed more sides of his character with excesses of women and alcohol and I don't mind that.  These things move the story on, they add to it.  In the last one they felt as if they were there just for the sake of it.

Fair play, sir. And my excuses for the derogatory comments earlier.

[Skuzzlebutt]

Fair play, sir. And my excuses for the derogatory comments earlier.

That's alright mate, I should have expanded on what I was trying to say a bit more in the original post, maybe it did it come off a bit anti gay although honestly it's not the case.

It's the sign of a good show when there's plenty to discuss.

[Niru Red4ever]

Gregor Clegane eh?! There's a monster!

Wasn't he supposed to be like 7 ft huge? Looked just a scoundrel in  the show.

[ghost1359]

I'm 3 episodes in, probably watch the 4th when I get home. Loving it so far, though I definately agree with what's been said re:sex scenes. Some of them are definitely necessary but others just seem to be thrown in there to please any teenage boys watching. Completely unnecessary & tarnishes an otherwise great program.

I don't know what it is about it, I watch plenty of tv with just as much sex in (californication, true blood love them both!) but even in lengthy sex scenes during those 2 programs you always feel like you're watching it for a reason. With game of thrones it's almost like they've just thought 'ok, lads we need a filler, whore sucking off a dwarf? yeaaaah' It's seedy.

[Henry Chinaski]

It's the sign of a good show when there's plenty to discuss.

That much is true!

[Alphaville]

I think what's missing in this conversation about the amount of sex and violence in the show is the fact that these are commodities being traded in a game of power.  It's easy to associate violence with power and there's plenty of that going around on the show.  But sex is used the same way, it's a commodity being traded and being used for a very specific purpose.  The king's proclivity for prostitutes shows a man wasting his power on trivial matters and losing control of the throne.  In contrast, Dinklage's interest in prostitutes shows that he has the wealth and the charm to overcome his physical limitations.  Sex in Dothraki culture is definitely connected to power and has helped the sister usurp the power of her brother (names escape me right now).  Little Carcetti Finger owns brothels and that helps him a long way in knowing what people do and want, information which he then uses to great effect. All of that without even mentioning the most relevant sex scene on the show, the one bringing new meaning to keeping things in the family.

EDIT: Also, slurp, slurp, slurpy, slurp.

[RojoLeón]

Completely unnecessary & tarnishes an otherwise great program.
With game of thrones it's almost like they've just thought 'ok, lads we need a filler, whore sucking off a dwarf? yeaaaah' It's seedy.

To be fair, in the bookTyrion Lannister (the imp) doesn't sleep with any whores at Winterfell. That scene was gratuitous. A  first maybe: dwarf orgy in a mainstream show?!

[RojoLeón]

Wasn't he supposed to be like 7 ft huge? Looked just a scoundrel in  the show.

Yup: in the  books he's depicted as being clost to eight feet tall and nearly 30 stone. Not an easy role to cast. Think they did pretty good though;

http://www.conanstevens.com/

He comes across pretty well in his bio. Seems like an honest, hard-working guy. Not some one you'd like to enter in to a protracted argument with though!

[Titi Camara]

....otherwise its pointless titilation.

Nipples to that!