Author Topic: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares  (Read 306189 times)

Offline allpool

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 70
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1600 on: April 24, 2009, 10:45:26 am »
Quote
I can never understand why David Moores sold his shares to H & G. The signs were there for all to see in the US. I wonder what he's thinking now
He is thinking i made 30 more peices of silver and kept coco his job.

Offline jenky

  • Boys Pen
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1601 on: April 24, 2009, 10:50:28 am »
You reckon?
Say you lent a mate £1000, he would feel a strong obligation to pay you back? Make that amount say £100,000 suddenly he may be inclined to 'do one' if the money he borrowed went sour on say a football venture? It's probably a crap analogy Harry but the point i am trying to make is i think it is still relevant.
Anyway, we are overdue some good news so fingers crossed.

But if you needed to go back to the mate (or another mate) to renegotiate the loan, what do you think he would say?

Online west_london_red

  • Knows his stuff - pull the udder one! RAWK's Dairy Queen.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,391
  • watching me? but whose watching you watching me?
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1602 on: April 24, 2009, 11:09:21 am »
You say that, and most of the time that is true, but when do the banks reach the point of diminishing returns? They can't keep loaning money to these 2 simply because we are Liverpool. There is also Wachovia, now Wells Fargo, what do they care about a football club across the pond? Would RBS extend the loan for non-economic interests? I doubt it very much.

But we can still pay the interest so the returns are not deminishing, plus if RBS want G&H to put down more of their own money (like a deposit) then they will get some of their principle back
Thinking is overrated.
The mind is a tool, it's not meant to be used that much.
Rest, love, observe. Laugh.

Offline 12Kings

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,907
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1603 on: April 24, 2009, 11:09:25 am »
They've gone.....

Offline 12Kings

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,907
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1604 on: April 24, 2009, 11:09:42 am »
just kidden :)

Offline Robbie Styles

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 215
    • Robbie Styles
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1605 on: April 24, 2009, 11:13:17 am »
So where's this so called ANNOUNCEMENT ???
Bill Shankly - 'Some people believe football is a matter of life and death. I'm very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that.'

Offline reddwarf12003

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 309
  • What good is a history without a future
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1606 on: April 24, 2009, 11:13:40 am »
Still 13hrs of today left. Not quite time to reach for the anti-depressants and the bottle of JD yet.  (We can still but dream this wasn't just about ticket prices.

Offline Kopstar30

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 81
  • Kenny will bring back the glory days
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1607 on: April 24, 2009, 11:16:03 am »
Moores was too busy lining his own pocket up and since Parry has been here nothing has ever moved forward. To get the title CEO i really dont know how he managed it. fkin joke

Offline allpool

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 70
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1608 on: April 24, 2009, 11:16:21 am »
sh!t RD ive already started.

Offline Dave_the_Red

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 533
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1609 on: April 24, 2009, 11:18:38 am »
So where's this so called ANNOUNCEMENT ???

It is a real disappointment.  Thought the c*nts were gone,

Offline HarryLabrador

  • went broke, so had to get the retrievers in.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,274
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1610 on: April 24, 2009, 11:27:16 am »
I remember this article from the Financial Times just a year ago. I believe it's worth posting again, so that we can at least remind ourselves why we are still in this mess and why I for one think we are in it a good deal longer.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Feathers fly in Anfield power struggle

By Roger Blitz

Published: April 11 2008 21:51

Even by the standards of the absurd power struggle that has raged at Liverpool Football Club for the past nine months, this week was pretty tumultuous.

A spectacularly successful night in the Champions League at its Anfield home on Tuesday was followed two days later by Tom Hicks, one of its co-owners, sending a three-page letter to chief executive Rick Parry ordering him to resign.

Mr Parry refused, describing the idea as “offensive” and bemoaning “more dirty linen being washed in public”.

Then, George Gillett, the other co-owner, hit back at his business partner. “Any decision to remove [Mr Parry] would need the approval of the full Liverpool board,” Mr Gillett told the Liverpool Echo on Friday. “Rick retains our full support.”

Meanwhile, Sameer al-Ansari, chief executive of Dubai International Capital, which has been stalking the club for some time, this week gave an interview in which he suggested it had pulled out of buying Liverpool, though DIC insiders have since told the Financial Times it had done no such thing. It is simply waiting in the wings until the Hicks/Gillett battle is settled.

The Liverpool saga has resembled a badly-written soap opera for the whole of its erratic season on the pitch. Mr Hicks and Mr Gillett, the US sports franchise owners who bought the club from under DIC’s nose in February 2007 for £219m, have long since given up talking to each other after a series of increasingly public disputes over management style, strategy and future ownership.

There have been instances of farce, too. Tom Hicks jr, Mr Hicks’s son and a fellow board member at the club, was drummed out of a Liverpool pub after making an ill-advised attempt to win over disenchanted Liverpool fans to his father’s stewardship.

It is a far cry from the early days of the Hicks/Gillett partnership, when the duo were hailed on Merseyside as custodians of a new era for Britain’s most successful club.

Liverpool continued to achieve success during the tail end of the club’s 50-year ownership by the Moores family, well known on Merseyside for its Littlewoods pools empire.

But when the family decided to sell, DIC and Mr Ansari – a dedicated Liverpool fan who on his occasional visits to Anfield still sits in the legendary Kop enclosure with his two sons and his daughter – thought their time had come. In December 2006, DIC was made preferred bidder. But according to one person close to the situation, Rabih Koury, then chief executive of its emerging markets division, appeared unable to close the deal. Mr Koury left the company “by mutual consent” last month.

Out from the shadows stepped Mr Gillett, owner of the Montreal Canadiens ice-hockey club, who Liverpool had been talking to for some months. Though unable to purchase the club single-handedly, he brought into the frame Mr Hicks, whom he knew from previous business ventures. Mr Hicks was co-founder of the investment firm, Hicks, Muse, Tate & Furst, whose Hicks Holdings empire owns the Dallas Stars ice-hockey team and the Texas Rangers baseball team, previously owned by George W. Bush.

Crucially, Mr Hicks brought with him substantial experience in sports stadia development, the next phase in Liverpool’s history. They agreed a 50-50 partnership and quickly persuaded the Liverpool board that they were a better prospect than DIC.

“The board always liked [Gillett], he was good to deal with, had a passion, wanted to get things done and seemed to get the issues around the club’s history.

“A strong offer came, the price seemed about right, and the relationship appeared very healthy.”

According to one close observer of the saga, the Moores family was given assurances from the US duo that they were “going to come in with a truckload of cash”.

The US duo took hold of the existing stadium design plans and redrafted them, spending up to an additional £20m, according to one observer. “They wasted serious cash,” the observer said.

The relationship began to fracture around autumn of last year. Mr Gillett is a private and discreet man, according to those who know him. He became alarmed at his partner’s frequent public indiscretions. For example, Mr Hicks let it be known he had made an approach for Jürgen Klinsmann, the former German international and coach, to replace the incumbent Rafael Benitez as Liverpool manager. It was part of a running feud between the manager and Mr Hicks, which also involved public clashes over the size of the budget for player transfers.

All this might have been overlooked if the underlying business plan for Liverpool was sound. The main initial hurdle appeared to be convincing the Moores family and fans that they would not do “a Glazer” and load debt on to the club in a deal similar to the 2005 takeover of Manchester United by Malcolm Glazer, owner of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers American football team.

The problem, according to one insider, was that the long-term planning was non-existent. Their due diligence of Liverpool, the insider said, took only a few days. Their deal was covered by a short-term bridging loan of about £185m. Their interest in Liverpool, the insider added, had more to do with using the club as collateral against their sports franchise assets in the US where there are limits on the amount of debt owners can raise to bankroll their teams. Hicks Holdings denies this.

In January, less than a year after buying the club, the US duo were having to refinance their purchase in a stalled debt market. The £350m deal they arrived at involved huge personal guarantees equivalent to £90m apiece. Their Kop Holdings investment vehicle took on £245m of the refinancing, the remaining £105m debt falling on the football club.

Servicing the £245m debt involves an inter-company loan of £60m paid by the club to Kop Holdings over three years. The promise not to ape Manchester United appears to have been broken.

According to DIC insiders, the refinancing – which lasts only 18 months – was only agreed by Royal Bank of Scotland and Wachovia, the US bank, because the lenders knew there was a willing buyer waiting in the wings.

Despite his sense of pique back in 2007, after being pipped to the Liverpool deal, Mr Ansari never walked away. DIC kept up lines of communication with the co-owners individually. At one point last year, Mr Hicks dangled a 15 per cent stake in front of Amanda Staveley, whose PCP Capital Partners advisory company is fronting DIC’s attempt to buy Liverpool. DIC concluded that the offer amounted to a valuation of the club of £1bn, and said no.

Mr Gillett appears to have been more genuinely eager to sell, having concluded last autumn that his partnership with Mr Hicks was fractured beyond repair. Mr Gillett was willing to sell his stake to DIC in a deal that would see him make £80m from his original investment. But under a clause in their purchasing deal, neither co-owner can sell his stake without agreement from the other. Mr Hicks told Mr Gillett he could not sell.

DIC, which had made clear it was not interested in partial stakes, now entertained the idea of allowing Mr Hicks to take a small portion of his partner’s holding, leaving him with 51 per cent and DIC 49 per cent. But when Mr Hicks insisted on full managerial control, DIC abandoned that idea.

The animosity peaked on Thursday with Mr Hicks calling for Mr Parry’s resignation. He accused the chief executive of commercial shortcomings and missed opportunities in the transfer market.

Mr Gillett’s response on Friday, giving Mr Parry “our” full support, suggests he and DIC are now more convinced than ever that they are nearing the conclusion of the row.

One person close to the situation said DIC and Mr Gillett have already come to an in-principle agreement about a future transfer of ownership. This effectively means that DIC already wields substantial influence over Mr Gillett’s interest, another reason for Mr Hicks’s ire.

One denouement now suggested by some people in the anti-Hicks camp is that bankers could pull the rug from under his Liverpool investment.

There are suggestions that loans Mr Hicks holds against other investments are due in a few weeks’ time, though Hicks Holdings says there are no loans on any other assets.

Meanwhile, Mr Hicks has been in talks with Merrill Lynch about raising more money with a view to buying out his partner, though Mr Gillett has made clear he will not sell to Mr Hicks.

As Liverpool looks forward to another heady night of Champions League football at Anfield later this month in a semi-final showdown with Chelsea, it is hard to tell whether this almighty saga is heading into an impasse or an endgame.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5b619cf4-07fd-11dd-a922-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1
SoS Membership Number: 387

Offline reddwarf12003

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 309
  • What good is a history without a future
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1611 on: April 24, 2009, 11:30:51 am »
Still clutching, hoping even praying that the next 12hrs 30mins brings something.

Offline ALECTHERED

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 527
  • YNWA
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1612 on: April 24, 2009, 11:37:43 am »
Another load of bollox..They start these rumours themselves every time they come over so we dont fuckin shoot them and let them into Anfield....
WE are liverpool.YOU are playing for liverpool.do not forget that.You have to hold your heads up for the SUPPORTERS.

Offline Billy1561

  • The egg-beating, Turbo Wrist-Action King. Conqueror of Mow cop otherwise known as The Cow Mopper! Too old for Google...too overloaded to byte.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,603
  • Scouse by birth. Red by choice.
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1613 on: April 24, 2009, 11:41:08 am »
Moores was too busy lining his own pocket up and since Parry has been here nothing has ever moved forward. To get the title CEO i really dont know how he managed it. fkin joke
Cos he owned the majority shareholding?
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life."

Offline reddwarf12003

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 309
  • What good is a history without a future
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1614 on: April 24, 2009, 11:43:06 am »
Just been searching the newspapers of the middle east and found this. I know its a year old.
 Dubai's DIC looks to double assets to $25bn
Published Date: May 20, 2008

DUBAI: Dubai International Capital (DIC), a $13 billion investment agency owned by the ruler of Dubai, said yesterday it plans to double its assets under management over the next two years to $25 billion. DIC, which is a potential buyer of English soccer club Liverpool FC, made a slew of investments last year including $4 billion by its private equity arm in three European companies. 

Oh why didn't they bite the bullet and sell.C**** :no

Offline allpool

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 70
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1615 on: April 24, 2009, 11:48:25 am »
The announcment maybe that phillip degan has managed to come through a reserve team game un-scathed and is finally fit to play first team football.

I mean that would be a major announcement.

Offline DangerScouse

  • "You picked on the wrong city!"
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,862
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1616 on: April 24, 2009, 11:55:11 am »
I'm presuming if there was an announcement imminent, one of the ITK's would have been on by now with more precise details. Alecthered, you could well be right.

Offline reddwarf12003

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 309
  • What good is a history without a future
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1617 on: April 24, 2009, 11:58:03 am »
Most of worked that out yesterday. But were allowed to dream aren't we.

Offline Dave_the_Red

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 533
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1618 on: April 24, 2009, 12:14:19 pm »
i think it's just the pair of c*nts releasing shit to get any easy ride when here.

Kenny coming back, and the twats selling up. They'll be fleecing us at the mo,  both skint?

Offline Onward Liverpudlian

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 791
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1619 on: April 24, 2009, 12:24:44 pm »
"big news within 24-48 hours over the ownership issue" - well thats roughly what one or two posters were heavily hinting - "done deal etc blah blah blah" - those  posters are (of course) not bullshitters and hugely reliable.

i'm sure their chums will be on to put out this 'fire' before too long. ;)

Offline Met

  • rosexual?
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,114
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1620 on: April 24, 2009, 12:29:30 pm »
Well, nothing has changed since yesterday, or last week or month.. I still want them out :)
Albert Riera yansanyusiza nyo, Mascherano muzanyi wamanyi ate Dirk Kuyt sirina Bigambo! Rafa Abeewo ! YWNWA

It's like watching the Dalai Lama snap and headbutt someone.

Offline HarryLabrador

  • went broke, so had to get the retrievers in.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,274
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1621 on: April 24, 2009, 12:33:37 pm »
I quite agree with this blogger, except our owners must be the greediest business men known to mankind. Obviously their hands are not being forced by the banks at the moment. Until that time, they will continue to p1ss us off with their pathetic ruses.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



A Buyers' Market for Teams

Too much debt and tight credit markets are going to force team owners to sell at bargain prices.

Recently announced offerings: Tom Ricketts 6% preferred to help finance his purchase of the Cubs; George Gillett looking do dump the Montreal Canadiens and refinance his 50% ownership in Liverpool. Tom Hicks needs money for the Texas Rangers and Dallas Stars.

Here are my best guesstimates of owners who will announce in the weeks ahead that they are looking to raise equity or sell their franchises outright: Frank McCourt (Los Angeles Dodgers), William DeWitt (St. Louis Cardinals), David Freeman (Nashville Predators), David Checketts (St. Louis Blues), Alan Cohen (Florida Panthers), Michael Heisley (Memphis Grizzlies), Simon brothers (Indiana Pacers).

Hell, I would not even be surprised if the Glazer family sold a piece of ManU, which is the most valuable sports franchise in the world but has $750 million of debt. For investors with cash, now is the time to buy.

http://blogs.forbes.com/sportsmoneyblog/
SoS Membership Number: 387

Offline 4pool

  • Mr. ( last name) Minister Of Truth - 1984 to 1984. The first to do a Moyesed. A pore grammarist.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 52,993
  • Liverpool: European Capital of Football 2005/2006
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1622 on: April 24, 2009, 12:36:28 pm »
HarryLabrador

in the article you posted above it says this:

In January, less than a year after buying the club, the US duo were having to refinance their purchase in a stalled debt market. The £350m deal they arrived at involved huge personal guarantees equivalent to £90m apiece. Their Kop Holdings investment vehicle took on £245m of the refinancing, the remaining £105m debt falling on the football club.

So according to the article Gillett and Hicks each put up £90m  apiece. Which totals £180m does it not. That would mean the banks are only financing the remaining £170m of the loan.

So if the owners are skint and have not invested in the club with thier own money as people have claimed all along, according to this article they both chipped in £90m a piece. So they have chipped in with their own money then and a sizeable portion as well.

Goes against the grain of what people believe and i'm sure most now won't believe that article anyway.

Further if the article is correct, that means the club and Kop Holdings is now only needing to pay to the banks interest on £170m  and not the full £350m . Which means we aren't needing £30m  a year or whatever it is for interest. It would be much lower. even at 10% that would be £17m  but it's probably closer to 5%  so that means more like £8.5m  for interest payments.

I would think the club could handle £8.5m then without defaulting on the loan.
Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

Offline vanoord

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1623 on: April 24, 2009, 12:44:55 pm »
Personal guarantees do not equal money put in!

It's like starting up a business, borrowing a pile of money and having to put your house as collateral - if the business fails, they take your house.

Similarly, if Kop Holdings fails, RBS pop round and repossess £90m worth of assets from each of Hicks & Gillett. Except in this case, the assets probably aren't worth anywhere near £90m each. Those investment will almost certainly have devalued due to the current economic situation.

I'd wager that when it comes to renewal time, any lender would demand that Hicks & Gillett put in equity to part-fund the club alongside the club - they'll probably be looking for 20-30% of the value of the club and I really doubt there's that much down the backs of the Yanks' sofas ;)
But ye gotta know where ye're just gonna rush in. Ye cannae just rush in anywhere. It looks bad, havin' to rush oout again straight awa'..

Offline HarryLabrador

  • went broke, so had to get the retrievers in.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,274
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1624 on: April 24, 2009, 12:46:31 pm »
HarryLabrador

in the article you posted above it says this:

In January, less than a year after buying the club, the US duo were having to refinance their purchase in a stalled debt market. The £350m deal they arrived at involved huge personal guarantees equivalent to £90m apiece. Their Kop Holdings investment vehicle took on £245m of the refinancing, the remaining £105m debt falling on the football club.

So according to the article Gillett and Hicks each put up £90m  apiece. Which totals £180m does it not. That would mean the banks are only financing the remaining £170m of the loan.

So if the owners are skint and have not invested in the club with thier own money as people have claimed all along, according to this article they both chipped in £90m a piece. So they have chipped in with their own money then and a sizeable portion as well.

Goes against the grain of what people believe and i'm sure most now won't believe that article anyway.

Further if the article is correct, that means the club and Kop Holdings is now only needing to pay to the banks interest on £170m  and not the full £350m . Which means we aren't needing £30m  a year or whatever it is for interest. It would be much lower. even at 10% that would be £17m  but it's probably closer to 5%  so that means more like £8.5m  for interest payments.

I would think the club could handle £8.5m then without defaulting on the loan.


If we are indeed to believe those amounts quoted, where they stated "personal guarantees equivalent to £90m apiece". What form were these personal guarantees? Were they indeed based on the assets of both of them at the time? I am sure not one of them handed over £90m in cash to the RBS. So what are those guarantees worth now? In the case of Hicks, probably not a lot.
SoS Membership Number: 387

Offline fry

  • or stew
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,757
  • Hoe Hoe Hoe
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1625 on: April 24, 2009, 12:47:00 pm »
HarryLabrador

in the article you posted above it says this:

In January, less than a year after buying the club, the US duo were having to refinance their purchase in a stalled debt market. The £350m deal they arrived at involved huge personal guarantees equivalent to £90m apiece. Their Kop Holdings investment vehicle took on £245m of the refinancing, the remaining £105m debt falling on the football club.

So according to the article Gillett and Hicks each put up £90m  apiece. Which totals £180m does it not. That would mean the banks are only financing the remaining £170m of the loan.

So if the owners are skint and have not invested in the club with thier own money as people have claimed all along, according to this article they both chipped in £90m a piece. So they have chipped in with their own money then and a sizeable portion as well.

Goes against the grain of what people believe and i'm sure most now won't believe that article anyway.

Further if the article is correct, that means the club and Kop Holdings is now only needing to pay to the banks interest on £170m  and not the full £350m . Which means we aren't needing £30m  a year or whatever it is for interest. It would be much lower. even at 10% that would be £17m  but it's probably closer to 5%  so that means more like £8.5m  for interest payments.

I would think the club could handle £8.5m then without defaulting on the loan.
The payments are for the full amount of the loan, 33 mill or so.  The guarantees are what they are, guarantees. 

even if that were the case hicks defaulted on a 10mill interest payment in the states.

Edit, that 10 million on the hsg was in dollars also, so not allot compared to 33 million GBP
« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 12:48:37 pm by fry »
Disclaimer: The above post may not be based on facts even if stated as fact.

Offline chanti

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,252
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1626 on: April 24, 2009, 01:01:35 pm »
this whole saga reminds me of the movie"Women in Red".

Lets persevere any be patient.. what is written in the stars will transpire.


Offline allpool

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 70
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1627 on: April 24, 2009, 01:01:46 pm »
annoncement made SG still out

Online west_london_red

  • Knows his stuff - pull the udder one! RAWK's Dairy Queen.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,391
  • watching me? but whose watching you watching me?
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1628 on: April 24, 2009, 01:07:09 pm »
HarryLabrador

in the article you posted above it says this:

In January, less than a year after buying the club, the US duo were having to refinance their purchase in a stalled debt market. The £350m deal they arrived at involved huge personal guarantees equivalent to £90m apiece. Their Kop Holdings investment vehicle took on £245m of the refinancing, the remaining £105m debt falling on the football club.

So according to the article Gillett and Hicks each put up £90m  apiece. Which totals £180m does it not. That would mean the banks are only financing the remaining £170m of the loan.

So if the owners are skint and have not invested in the club with thier own money as people have claimed all along, according to this article they both chipped in £90m a piece. So they have chipped in with their own money then and a sizeable portion as well.

Goes against the grain of what people believe and i'm sure most now won't believe that article anyway.

Further if the article is correct, that means the club and Kop Holdings is now only needing to pay to the banks interest on £170m  and not the full £350m . Which means we aren't needing £30m  a year or whatever it is for interest. It would be much lower. even at 10% that would be £17m  but it's probably closer to 5%  so that means more like £8.5m  for interest payments.

I would think the club could handle £8.5m then without defaulting on the loan.

Theres a big difference between gurantees and actual cash. They put up gurantees ie, if they dont pay up the banks can take ownership of assets worth £90 million. They did not put in £90 million in cash each.
Thinking is overrated.
The mind is a tool, it's not meant to be used that much.
Rest, love, observe. Laugh.

Offline Dave_the_Red

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 533
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1629 on: April 24, 2009, 01:30:31 pm »
HarryLabrador

in the article you posted above it says this:

In January, less than a year after buying the club, the US duo were having to refinance their purchase in a stalled debt market. The £350m deal they arrived at involved huge personal guarantees equivalent to £90m apiece. Their Kop Holdings investment vehicle took on £245m of the refinancing, the remaining £105m debt falling on the football club.

So according to the article Gillett and Hicks each put up £90m  apiece. Which totals £180m does it not. That would mean the banks are only financing the remaining £170m of the loan.

So if the owners are skint and have not invested in the club with thier own money as people have claimed all along, according to this article they both chipped in £90m a piece. So they have chipped in with their own money then and a sizeable portion as well.

Goes against the grain of what people believe and i'm sure most now won't believe that article anyway.

Further if the article is correct, that means the club and Kop Holdings is now only needing to pay to the banks interest on £170m  and not the full £350m . Which means we aren't needing £30m  a year or whatever it is for interest. It would be much lower. even at 10% that would be £17m  but it's probably closer to 5%  so that means more like £8.5m  for interest payments.

I would think the club could handle £8.5m then without defaulting on the loan.

still a problem here, somehow we should feel gratefully we still pay for them to own us.

90 million of personal garante es? no doubt we pay them

Offline 4pool

  • Mr. ( last name) Minister Of Truth - 1984 to 1984. The first to do a Moyesed. A pore grammarist.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 52,993
  • Liverpool: European Capital of Football 2005/2006
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1630 on: April 24, 2009, 01:33:31 pm »
Theres a big difference between gurantees and actual cash. They put up gurantees ie, if they dont pay up the banks can take ownership of assets worth £90 million. They did not put in £90 million in cash each.


Really?


I think most of us know what guarantees means. It may not be all cash, it may be in the form of loans to the club like Roman does for Chelsea, or through other means but regardless of what form those guarantess are in, the point remains----if the article is factual the banks are only in it for just less than half the loan amount.

Which means that for a long time people have thought the loan amount from the banks was for the full £350m. Which if not true and G&H have "guaranteed" £180m worth , means the banks are due a lot less in  interest payments, no?
Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

Offline 4pool

  • Mr. ( last name) Minister Of Truth - 1984 to 1984. The first to do a Moyesed. A pore grammarist.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 52,993
  • Liverpool: European Capital of Football 2005/2006
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1631 on: April 24, 2009, 01:36:16 pm »
Fridays announcement...........











































I'm off to work.  :wave   ;D
Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

Offline fry

  • or stew
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,757
  • Hoe Hoe Hoe
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1632 on: April 24, 2009, 01:39:42 pm »

Really?


I think most of us know what guarantees means. It may not be all cash, it may be in the form of loans to the club like Roman does for Chelsea, or through other means but regardless of what form those guarantees are in, the point remains----if the article is factual the banks are only in it for just less than half the loan amount.

Which means that for a long time people have thought the loan amount from the banks was for the full £350m. Which if not true and G&H have "guaranteed" £180m worth , means the banks are due a lot less in  interest payments, no?
Nice to see you over-highlight the one article out of hundreds that paints their finances a little bit better,  i stand startled and surprised.
Disclaimer: The above post may not be based on facts even if stated as fact.

Offline guyko21

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 502
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1633 on: April 24, 2009, 01:40:44 pm »

Really?


I think most of us know what guarantees means. It may not be all cash, it may be in the form of loans to the club like Roman does for Chelsea, or through other means but regardless of what form those guarantess are in, the point remains----if the article is factual the banks are only in it for just less than half the loan amount.

Which means that for a long time people have thought the loan amount from the banks was for the full £350m. Which if not true and G&H have "guaranteed" £180m worth , means the banks are due a lot less in  interest payments, no?
Absolutely 100% WRONG 4pool ... not for the first time. 

So H&G have guaranteed some of the £350m in the event of the club defaulting. 

For example, my dad used to guarantee my mortgage.  He never had to make a single interest payment, and he never had to pay the principle.  Why?  Because I paid it all on time and without a problem. 

If I had defaulted, then there would have been a problem and he would have had to step up to the plate. 

Really 4pool, you lose all credibility with such nonsensical and apparently biased posts. 

The fact is that the club is bearing the entire interest burden of the loan. 

Online west_london_red

  • Knows his stuff - pull the udder one! RAWK's Dairy Queen.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,391
  • watching me? but whose watching you watching me?
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1634 on: April 24, 2009, 01:41:17 pm »

Which means that for a long time people have thought the loan amount from the banks was for the full £350m. Which if not true and G&H have "guaranteed" £180m worth , means the banks are due a lot less in  interest payments, no?

ok, im now begining to question my own sanity.

If I borrow £100k to buy a house, and put my car up as gurantee, I still owe a £100k, no?
Thinking is overrated.
The mind is a tool, it's not meant to be used that much.
Rest, love, observe. Laugh.

Offline electricghost

  • Might haunt your wiring, but will usually stop if requested to. Lives in a spirit house in Pra Kanong.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,684
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1635 on: April 24, 2009, 01:44:34 pm »
ok, im now begining to question my own sanity.

If I borrow £100k to buy a house, and put my car up as gurantee, I still owe a £100k, no?

In the real world, yes. In 4pool's world apparently not. 
“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
― Steven Weinberg

Offline vanoord

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1636 on: April 24, 2009, 01:47:14 pm »
ok, im now begining to question my own sanity.

If I borrow £100k to buy a house, and put my car up as gurantee, I still owe a £100k, no?


Indeed you do.

And the bank are probably getting a bit jittery, because they've now realised that the car you told them was worth £9k is actually only worth £2k ;)
But ye gotta know where ye're just gonna rush in. Ye cannae just rush in anywhere. It looks bad, havin' to rush oout again straight awa'..

Offline will2003

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,349
  • God and a Legend
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1637 on: April 24, 2009, 01:47:59 pm »
Looks like nothings happening
"We gave the fans their pride - again. We fought for the fans, we fought for the club and we fought for our players." - Legend

Offline fry

  • or stew
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,757
  • Hoe Hoe Hoe
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1638 on: April 24, 2009, 01:49:24 pm »
In the real world, yes. In 4pool's world apparently not. 
Ahh bless him though, I dont think he undertands all that has gone on.
Disclaimer: The above post may not be based on facts even if stated as fact.

Offline HarryLabrador

  • went broke, so had to get the retrievers in.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,274
Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1639 on: April 24, 2009, 01:49:36 pm »
Looks like nothings happening

If you look closely...the tumbleweed rolls.  ;D
SoS Membership Number: 387