Author Topic: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting  (Read 101810 times)

Offline aerorossi29

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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1440 on: February 10, 2009, 07:23:34 pm »
Sorry aerorossi, don't mean to be a pedant but................

was you = wrong
were you = correct

im neither, just my opinion, i thought it might spark some debate, albeit without people questioning my loyalty and support, guess i was wrong bout that.

Offline yafoy

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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1441 on: February 10, 2009, 07:25:02 pm »
Paul Tomkins 10 February 2009

"
   There are lies, damned lies and statistics. And there is the absolute guff spouted by pundits who wouldn't know a fact if it bit them in the part of their body they speak out of.
paul tomkins

 
Of late, I've been wondering if Rafa Benítez is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Now I'm just starting to believe that's too mild a way to put it. I have never known a manager so unable to win even when he wins. One defeat in 33 ‘main competition' games, and still the flak flies.
 
And as I will prove, some of the criticism could not be more wayward.
 
If ever there was an almost perfect example of how he can't win, it came at Portsmouth, following the midweek Mersey marathon.
 
To put it in perspective, if Rafa had played a weakened team at Everton in the FA Cup, he'd have been lambasted for not taking the competition seriously (yawn), and for not understanding the local derby.
 
He went with a strong team, to try and win the game and keep the momentum going, not least because Mersey derbies have a habit of being blown out of proportion: lose, and it feels like the end of the world; win, and you can get a massive fillip.
 
But Lucas was sent off for two yellows, when only one was a foul. Steven Gerrard had already limped off injured at the start, and Liverpool were left to play extra-time with ten men and a clearly leggy Fernando Torres. So much then for fielding your best players to win the game early and then be able to rest them: the advice every man and his dog was giving Benítez in the past.
 
Already physically shattered, a deflected goal in the 119th minute was similarly tough on the psyche. It was a body blow to the, er, mind. So the received wisdom was no use whatsoever on Wednesday.
 
What it did do was leave a tired, dejected team shorn of its captain and with its best striker seeing the recent run of games take its toll, having returned from a long injury problem to be thrown into a busy schedule.
 
So what does a manager do in this situation? Play his best players, who were clearly tired (and two of whom – Torres and Alonso – weren't 100% fit), or use the squad and hope that a little less quality and/or experience is compensated for by far greater freshness, plus the hunger to impress?
 
After all, Gerrard had just succumbed to an injury from playing too much football; what if Torres followed suit?
 
With Spain unlikely to rest him on Wednesday, there was a chance that the Reds wouldn't even get to the upcoming vital weekend break (the one big bonus of going out of the FA Cup) with the striker's hamstrings intact. So Rafa wasn't resting him to keep him fresh for Spain; he was trying to avoid another lay-off.
 
Ultimately, extreme situations demand extreme measures.
 
I don't think the result made Rafa a genius, just as having drawn or lost would not have made him a chump. Had everyone been 100% fit and sharp, then it's a risky judgement call you can perhaps question. But they weren't. Clearly.
 
However, there was one very logical reason why, in the circumstances, it was a gamble worth taking. The Liverpool subs looked so sharp precisely because they were entering into a game with the opposition starting to tire, and in which those three Reds wouldn't need to rely on stamina – just a short burst of effort that didn't need to be sustained.
 
What Rafa did in the face of fatigue was pair Torres, Kuyt and Alonso up against an equally tired second-half Portsmouth side, when their quality could tell. Ideally the game would have been won by then, but if it wasn't, they were there to win it late on. After all, Alex Ferguson has done that countless times in the past, keeping his stars in reserve in case he needed them to come on and win the game.
 
Had that trio started the game, it could quite easily have been a case of them tiring before the south coast side. Who knows? It's certainly not unlikely after the midweek exertions, and a whopping 210 minutes of football since Pompey played last Saturday. Either way, it's an almost impossible situation for the team to play to the best of its ability.
 
Mixing metaphors somewhat, I just wish the baying hounds would cut Benítez at least a little slack. I honestly can't recall a top manager being criticised even half as much as the Spaniard – and this with trophies, constant Champions League qualification (and annual progress to at least the semi-finals, bar 2006), along with radical improvements in the league.
 
After Torres scored the winner on Saturday, one commentator said that Liverpool need to keep him fit and 'nurse him'; yet there was widespread condemnation before the game for not starting him. So you need to nurse players like Torres and Gerrard, just never rest (i.e. 'nurse') them. Oh, okay.
 
Then later that evening, it was said Liverpool would not have won fielding that side against better opposition.
 
Which was ludicrously bereft of logic because Liverpool were playing Portsmouth, and that's the only team the manager could pick a side to beat. Did Rafa select that same XI against Chelsea last week? No. Did Rafa have to pick a side on Saturday to beat Manchester United or Arsenal? Of course not. It was Portsmouth.
 
In the post-match TV analysis it was all about how Liverpool will get 'nowhere near' the title with this squad; having just gone top of the table with 13 games remaining (even if United were still favourites with two games in hand).
 
And there's me thinking the Reds had been challenging all season long, sometimes without Gerrard, often without Torres.
 
The same was said on TV on Sunday morning: journalists declaring Liverpool's squad as too weak to mount a title challenge –– whilst that very squad is clearly making a challenge. It's like three blind mice leading equally vision-impaired followers.
 
(Please, fellas, if you're reading, stick with it, but I've a lot to vent. The facts are on their way. Read them, and consider their implications.)
 
The result is the only justification of team selection, whether you get the winner in the first minute or the last.
 
I said last week, when Man United score late, it's the sign of a great side; when Liverpool do, it's luck. And yet even before Torres came on, Kuyt had put the Reds 2-1 up with a goal that was wrongly chalked off for offside, while Pompey's opener looked offside. And Liverpool are 'lucky'?!
 
Had that Kuyt goal stood, there's a fairly good chance Liverpool would have won without their two stellar names even featuring, and yet the Setanta pundits and Sky journos were adamant about how Liverpool are too reliant on Gerrard and Torres.
 
Again, I ask people to go check Manchester United's results without Ronaldo and Rooney. And again, I ask people to see how many games Liverpool have won without Torres and Gerrard this season.
 
If you can't check, let me do it for you: United lost five league games last season. Rooney missed four of them, Ronaldo missed three, and they did not play together in any of those defeats. Of these opponents, only Chelsea were a team in the top eight, so it's not skewed by difficult games.
 
In the 12 league matches Rooney did not start, United's accrued a 69-point average when extrapolated over 38 games, as opposed to the 87 they actually racked up. In the seven games Ronaldo did not start, the average would have made an even worse total: 65 points. Or the tally that saw Everton finish 5th.
 
Shockingly, in the four games in which neither started –– against Manchester City, Bolton, Sunderland and Spurs (again, no giants, but admittedly one derby) –– they dropped half of the available points: meaning an average of 57 if extrapolated over 38 games. Or equivalent to finishing 8th, like Portsmouth.
 
(Also, of the three league games Ronaldo missed at the start of this season, United dropped five points, which is the form of a mid-table side.)
 
Yes, United have other good players all over the pitch, but do these facts not suggest that they are overly reliant on their best two attacking players?
 
While United have coped well in the last few games without Rooney, without either him and/or Ronaldo on a regular basis, the form book suggests that they are not a title-winning side. Indeed, far from it.
 
(Of course, if United did not have these players on a very regular basis, or indeed at all, they'd try to buy similar replacements; just as Liverpool obviously would in the case of Torres and Gerrard.)
 
Now look at Liverpool without Torres and Gerrard this season.
 
Gerrard has failed to start four league games –– Villa, United, Fulham and Portsmouth. Two of those are clearly very tough fixtures, against top-three sides. Two were at home, two away. And yet Liverpool's record is won two, drawn two. Over 38 league games, that is worth an impressive 76 points.
 
Due to injury, Torres has failed to start no fewer than 15 league games. These resulted in ten wins, four draws and just one defeat. Over a 38 game season, that ratio would earn an incredible 86 points. That is a title-winning tally; last year United got 87, but needed only 86.
 
Perhaps due to Torres playing at least half a dozen games when lacking sharpness, Liverpool have actually fared better without him; with him starting, the Reds have won five and drawn five, which is 76 points in terms of form over 38 games. (Though he did win the weekend's game from the bench.)
 
It gets even more amazing. In each of the two league games Liverpool started without both Torres and Gerrard, the Reds won: against United and Pompey. It's only two games, of course, but it's a 100% record. Or 114 points over the course of a season! (Silly, I know, when based on such a small sample, but a 100% record is a 100% record.)
 
Yes, these are statistics – but then league tables are formed from similar statistics relating to win, lose or draw, which are the most important kind. And yes, United's figures are based on last season (when they won the title) and Liverpool's this season (as they challenge for it). Even so, it's valid.
 
But even I was shocked at how remarkably disparate the win/lose/draw statistics were. I'm no genius; I just sat down and bothered to check some team sheets and calculate some figures, rather than just make ignorant assumptions like the McPundits.
 
So why are Liverpool the team perceived to rely on just two players? Why does someone like Tim Sherwood say that United don't rely on their key men and Liverpool do?
 
Why isn't the truth –– that United cannot seem to cope very well without Ronaldo, and certainly not well at all without both him and Rooney –– more well known?
 
Why isn't Rafa praised for getting so many great results without his key men this season, rather than just constantly criticised?
 
Why isn't Ferguson accused of being lucky or relying on Rooney and Ronaldo to get him out of trouble?
 
I'll leave you (and anyone in the media who reads this) to draw your own conclusions. But based on these figures, if I were Alex Ferguson and United lost Rooney and Ronaldo to serious injury, I'd be very worried. "

(taken from official lfc website today)
Shanks: "Some people believe football is a matter of life and  death, I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that. - At a football club, there's a holy trinity - the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don't come into it"

Offline redtel

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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1442 on: February 10, 2009, 07:29:42 pm »
basically,alls im saying is that the vibe wasnt as positive as it is on here. i am not downing anyone who wasnt at the game, im just giving my reaction to what happened before and after the game.


I can't understand this we were negative thing.

Did you see Pompey surrounding our goal in the first 45mins?

I didn't.

Did you see us defending more in the second half, but not constantly?

Yes I would say.

So, which part of the game did we look defensive?

We are definitely believers and we’ve won the fucking lot!

Offline redstevec

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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1443 on: February 10, 2009, 07:32:16 pm »
Listen pal, have any audacity you want - but how in the name of logic can you be embarrassed by the set up when you are not embarrassed by the actual team or players?
And you have used the line wos you there in several of your illuminating posts.

Hopefully it will be your bedtime soon and we won't have to put up with any more of your pathetic claptrap.
As I said in my opinion you should pick another team and save yourself the embarrassment in the future.

Mind you no doubt you will still be able to arrange long weekends away on the south coast - so maybe 600 mile round trip wasn't solely for the game.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 07:35:48 pm by redstevec »

Offline keithcun

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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1444 on: February 10, 2009, 07:35:14 pm »
I can't understand this we were negative thing.

Did you see Pompey surrounding our goal in the first 45mins?

I didn't.

Did you see us defending more in the second half, but not constantly?

Yes I would say.

So, which part of the game did we look defensive?



All some see are the name of 6 defenders. They can't comprehend that if 3 play in midfield, ie Dossena, Arbeloa as wing backs and Aurelio central, that it is not a defensive formation. Even watching the game, you'd think they'd have the nouse to realise that we weren't playing dfensively, due to the time we had possession in their half and the positions of said wing backs.

But, no matter how you try, you just can't make some people understand what they are actually seeing. They have their beliefs and won't be shaken from it.
I might have single handedly ruined Warrington's picture houses,but personally thought my pocket money was better spent at Anfield.

Offline Phatz

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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1445 on: February 10, 2009, 07:35:43 pm »
Paul Tomkins 10 February 2009

"
   There are lies, damned lies and statistics. And there is the absolute guff spouted by pundits who wouldn't know a fact if it bit them in the part of their body they speak out of.
paul tomkins

 
Of late, I've been wondering if Rafa Benítez is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Now I'm just starting to believe that's too mild a way to put it. I have never known a manager so unable to win even when he wins. One defeat in 33 ‘main competition' games, and still the flak flies.
 
And as I will prove, some of the criticism could not be more wayward.
 
If ever there was an almost perfect example of how he can't win, it came at Portsmouth, following the midweek Mersey marathon.
 
To put it in perspective, if Rafa had played a weakened team at Everton in the FA Cup, he'd have been lambasted for not taking the competition seriously (yawn), and for not understanding the local derby.
 
He went with a strong team, to try and win the game and keep the momentum going, not least because Mersey derbies have a habit of being blown out of proportion: lose, and it feels like the end of the world; win, and you can get a massive fillip.
 
But Lucas was sent off for two yellows, when only one was a foul. Steven Gerrard had already limped off injured at the start, and Liverpool were left to play extra-time with ten men and a clearly leggy Fernando Torres. So much then for fielding your best players to win the game early and then be able to rest them: the advice every man and his dog was giving Benítez in the past.
 
Already physically shattered, a deflected goal in the 119th minute was similarly tough on the psyche. It was a body blow to the, er, mind. So the received wisdom was no use whatsoever on Wednesday.
 
What it did do was leave a tired, dejected team shorn of its captain and with its best striker seeing the recent run of games take its toll, having returned from a long injury problem to be thrown into a busy schedule.
 
So what does a manager do in this situation? Play his best players, who were clearly tired (and two of whom – Torres and Alonso – weren't 100% fit), or use the squad and hope that a little less quality and/or experience is compensated for by far greater freshness, plus the hunger to impress?
 
After all, Gerrard had just succumbed to an injury from playing too much football; what if Torres followed suit?
 
With Spain unlikely to rest him on Wednesday, there was a chance that the Reds wouldn't even get to the upcoming vital weekend break (the one big bonus of going out of the FA Cup) with the striker's hamstrings intact. So Rafa wasn't resting him to keep him fresh for Spain; he was trying to avoid another lay-off.
 
Ultimately, extreme situations demand extreme measures.
 
I don't think the result made Rafa a genius, just as having drawn or lost would not have made him a chump. Had everyone been 100% fit and sharp, then it's a risky judgement call you can perhaps question. But they weren't. Clearly.
 
However, there was one very logical reason why, in the circumstances, it was a gamble worth taking. The Liverpool subs looked so sharp precisely because they were entering into a game with the opposition starting to tire, and in which those three Reds wouldn't need to rely on stamina – just a short burst of effort that didn't need to be sustained.
 
What Rafa did in the face of fatigue was pair Torres, Kuyt and Alonso up against an equally tired second-half Portsmouth side, when their quality could tell. Ideally the game would have been won by then, but if it wasn't, they were there to win it late on. After all, Alex Ferguson has done that countless times in the past, keeping his stars in reserve in case he needed them to come on and win the game.
 
Had that trio started the game, it could quite easily have been a case of them tiring before the south coast side. Who knows? It's certainly not unlikely after the midweek exertions, and a whopping 210 minutes of football since Pompey played last Saturday. Either way, it's an almost impossible situation for the team to play to the best of its ability.
 
Mixing metaphors somewhat, I just wish the baying hounds would cut Benítez at least a little slack. I honestly can't recall a top manager being criticised even half as much as the Spaniard – and this with trophies, constant Champions League qualification (and annual progress to at least the semi-finals, bar 2006), along with radical improvements in the league.
 
After Torres scored the winner on Saturday, one commentator said that Liverpool need to keep him fit and 'nurse him'; yet there was widespread condemnation before the game for not starting him. So you need to nurse players like Torres and Gerrard, just never rest (i.e. 'nurse') them. Oh, okay.
 
Then later that evening, it was said Liverpool would not have won fielding that side against better opposition.
 
Which was ludicrously bereft of logic because Liverpool were playing Portsmouth, and that's the only team the manager could pick a side to beat. Did Rafa select that same XI against Chelsea last week? No. Did Rafa have to pick a side on Saturday to beat Manchester United or Arsenal? Of course not. It was Portsmouth.
 
In the post-match TV analysis it was all about how Liverpool will get 'nowhere near' the title with this squad; having just gone top of the table with 13 games remaining (even if United were still favourites with two games in hand).
 
And there's me thinking the Reds had been challenging all season long, sometimes without Gerrard, often without Torres.
 
The same was said on TV on Sunday morning: journalists declaring Liverpool's squad as too weak to mount a title challenge –– whilst that very squad is clearly making a challenge. It's like three blind mice leading equally vision-impaired followers.
 
(Please, fellas, if you're reading, stick with it, but I've a lot to vent. The facts are on their way. Read them, and consider their implications.)
 
The result is the only justification of team selection, whether you get the winner in the first minute or the last.
 
I said last week, when Man United score late, it's the sign of a great side; when Liverpool do, it's luck. And yet even before Torres came on, Kuyt had put the Reds 2-1 up with a goal that was wrongly chalked off for offside, while Pompey's opener looked offside. And Liverpool are 'lucky'?!
 
Had that Kuyt goal stood, there's a fairly good chance Liverpool would have won without their two stellar names even featuring, and yet the Setanta pundits and Sky journos were adamant about how Liverpool are too reliant on Gerrard and Torres.
 
Again, I ask people to go check Manchester United's results without Ronaldo and Rooney. And again, I ask people to see how many games Liverpool have won without Torres and Gerrard this season.
 
If you can't check, let me do it for you: United lost five league games last season. Rooney missed four of them, Ronaldo missed three, and they did not play together in any of those defeats. Of these opponents, only Chelsea were a team in the top eight, so it's not skewed by difficult games.
 
In the 12 league matches Rooney did not start, United's accrued a 69-point average when extrapolated over 38 games, as opposed to the 87 they actually racked up. In the seven games Ronaldo did not start, the average would have made an even worse total: 65 points. Or the tally that saw Everton finish 5th.
 
Shockingly, in the four games in which neither started –– against Manchester City, Bolton, Sunderland and Spurs (again, no giants, but admittedly one derby) –– they dropped half of the available points: meaning an average of 57 if extrapolated over 38 games. Or equivalent to finishing 8th, like Portsmouth.
 
(Also, of the three league games Ronaldo missed at the start of this season, United dropped five points, which is the form of a mid-table side.)
 
Yes, United have other good players all over the pitch, but do these facts not suggest that they are overly reliant on their best two attacking players?
 
While United have coped well in the last few games without Rooney, without either him and/or Ronaldo on a regular basis, the form book suggests that they are not a title-winning side. Indeed, far from it.
 
(Of course, if United did not have these players on a very regular basis, or indeed at all, they'd try to buy similar replacements; just as Liverpool obviously would in the case of Torres and Gerrard.)
 
Now look at Liverpool without Torres and Gerrard this season.
 
Gerrard has failed to start four league games –– Villa, United, Fulham and Portsmouth. Two of those are clearly very tough fixtures, against top-three sides. Two were at home, two away. And yet Liverpool's record is won two, drawn two. Over 38 league games, that is worth an impressive 76 points.
 
Due to injury, Torres has failed to start no fewer than 15 league games. These resulted in ten wins, four draws and just one defeat. Over a 38 game season, that ratio would earn an incredible 86 points. That is a title-winning tally; last year United got 87, but needed only 86.
 
Perhaps due to Torres playing at least half a dozen games when lacking sharpness, Liverpool have actually fared better without him; with him starting, the Reds have won five and drawn five, which is 76 points in terms of form over 38 games. (Though he did win the weekend's game from the bench.)
 
It gets even more amazing. In each of the two league games Liverpool started without both Torres and Gerrard, the Reds won: against United and Pompey. It's only two games, of course, but it's a 100% record. Or 114 points over the course of a season! (Silly, I know, when based on such a small sample, but a 100% record is a 100% record.)
 
Yes, these are statistics – but then league tables are formed from similar statistics relating to win, lose or draw, which are the most important kind. And yes, United's figures are based on last season (when they won the title) and Liverpool's this season (as they challenge for it). Even so, it's valid.
 
But even I was shocked at how remarkably disparate the win/lose/draw statistics were. I'm no genius; I just sat down and bothered to check some team sheets and calculate some figures, rather than just make ignorant assumptions like the McPundits.
 
So why are Liverpool the team perceived to rely on just two players? Why does someone like Tim Sherwood say that United don't rely on their key men and Liverpool do?
 
Why isn't the truth –– that United cannot seem to cope very well without Ronaldo, and certainly not well at all without both him and Rooney –– more well known?
 
Why isn't Rafa praised for getting so many great results without his key men this season, rather than just constantly criticised?
 
Why isn't Ferguson accused of being lucky or relying on Rooney and Ronaldo to get him out of trouble?
 
I'll leave you (and anyone in the media who reads this) to draw your own conclusions. But based on these figures, if I were Alex Ferguson and United lost Rooney and Ronaldo to serious injury, I'd be very worried. "

(taken from official lfc website today)

Boss post. Makes for tasty reading.
'Nuff said...

Offline redgriffin73

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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1446 on: February 10, 2009, 07:39:21 pm »
Paul Tomkins 10 February 2009

(taken from official lfc website today)

Fantastic read, absolutely spot on.
Rafa Benitez: "I'll always keep in my heart the good times I've had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool. I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager. Thank you so much once more and always remember: You'll never walk alone."

Offline stoa

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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1447 on: February 10, 2009, 07:40:00 pm »
So, which part of the game did we look defensive?

The part on paper. At the end of the day, we DID play with 7 rather defensive minded players. I was baffled when I saw the starting eleven walk out there as I didn't have a clue at first how we'd line up (I was expecting something like our regular 4-5-1 with maybe some changes and didn't watch the build-up or read the line-up on here).

What I don't understand is how anyone can say it was a negative or defensive line-up after the game had started. We looked lively and certainly didn't look as if we were there just not to concede. We were attacking with the wingbacks bombing forward and at least one of Skrtel or Agger trying to get forward aswell. As negative as that looked on paper, it was nowhere negative on the pitch and that's what's important...

Offline RedSandgrounder

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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1448 on: February 10, 2009, 07:41:31 pm »
basically,alls im saying is that the vibe wasnt as positive as it is on here. i am not downing anyone who wasnt at the game, im just giving my reaction to what happened before and after the game.

All I'm saying is the win isn't the bonus. The win, the 3 points is the be all and end all.

Who cares if it's negative, who cares what the other fans, think, who cares what the "vibes" are like at the game, unless you left early (not accusing you) the feeling and celebrations when Torres nodded in that winner must have been one of the best feelings in the world.

If I was able to travel to these games, I wouldn't come home and complain about the negative tactics in a game THAT WE WON, but I'd be delighted with the result, and any feelings about the 'negative' tactics would be negated by the feeling I'd have felt when that goal went in.
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Offline IndianRed23

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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1449 on: February 10, 2009, 07:44:27 pm »

What I don't understand is how anyone can say it was a negative or defensive line-up after the game had started. We looked lively and certainly didn't look as if we were there just not to concede. We were attacking with the wingbacks bombing forward and at least one of Skrtel or Agger trying to get forward aswell. As negative as that looked on paper, it was nowhere negative on the pitch and that's what's important...

Agreed 100%. Was also impressed with the job Fabio did as a CDM.

WARNING: DO NOT CLICK ON THE LINK BELOW  ;D
http://www.ihateashley.info/index.php?id=f933919f8e5661f59a873fec247fb929
« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 07:49:42 pm by IndianRed23 »
Walk On!

Offline redtel

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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1450 on: February 10, 2009, 07:47:32 pm »
All some see are the name of 6 defenders. They can't comprehend that if 3 play in midfield, ie Dossena, Arbeloa as wing backs and Aurelio central, that it is not a defensive formation. Even watching the game, you'd think they'd have the nouse to realise that we weren't playing dfensively, due to the time we had possession in their half and the positions of said wing backs.

But, no matter how you try, you just can't make some people understand what they are actually seeing. They have their beliefs and won't be shaken from it.

The part on paper. At the end of the day, we DID play with 7 rather defensive minded players. I was baffled when I saw the starting eleven walk out there as I didn't have a clue at first how we'd line up (I was expecting something like our regular 4-5-1 with maybe some changes and didn't watch the build-up or read the line-up on here).

What I don't understand is how anyone can say it was a negative or defensive line-up after the game had started. We looked lively and certainly didn't look as if we were there just not to concede. We were attacking with the wingbacks bombing forward and at least one of Skrtel or Agger trying to get forward aswell. As negative as that looked on paper, it was nowhere negative on the pitch and that's what's important...

OK I get it. Sometimes I think I have been watching a different game!

I wonder if that guy watched our game? Were Southampton at home?
We are definitely believers and we’ve won the fucking lot!

Offline RedSandgrounder

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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1451 on: February 10, 2009, 07:49:11 pm »
Agreed 100%. Was also impressed with the job Fabio did as a CDM.

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Offline blert596

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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1452 on: February 10, 2009, 07:55:07 pm »
What the fcuk has it to do with you.

Fuck all really. But if you dont want people to reply to your thoughts then dont put them on a public forum thats geared exactly towards people posting and replying to them.

Quote
Yes i was embarrassed, not of the players, never have been, otherwise i wouldnt do a 600mile trip to watch them. Coincidentally was you at the game? Just asking like.
Quote
why be embarrassed after winning and my answer to that is because of the team we put out.

So you looked at the names on the team sheet and got embarassed. You never thought that there might be a chance of 3-5-2? Just assumed that it was 5 at the back and that we were going to play defensively. Now I know you were at the match (funnily enough I get a better undrstanding of our whole game plan when I'm there) but even from the comfort of my couch I saw within the first couple of minutes we were far from negatively lined up.

Erm, no I wasnt at the match. But lets not even go down that road eh lad.  ;)

Quote
You seem to think cos you have a few thousand posts that gives you the right to speak down to people like me, how fuckin dare you call me an embarrassment

The number of posts means fuck all when I decide to "speak down" to people mate. I've been speaking down to people for years. Personally if you think looking at a Liverpool team and being embarassed by it is fine then fill your boots.

Quote
i was there as i have been to every away game and home for that matter, and i think that gives me a damn fuckin right to say what the fuck i like.

Listen lad, stop banging on about being there. You get no medals from me for that, been there done that since before you were born. Thats not being the big I AM like you appear to be doing, its simply a fact at I was going the match from before you were born. And lately every home game has been a 600 mile round trip. Midweek ones too. So lets just leave that alone eh? But if you think its OK to be embarassed by the team ten crack on. I can relate to being embarassed by a performance, and fuck me I've been to a few, but never by the team selection.

Quote
The reason i was embarrassed is because in 23 years i have never seen such a negative or defensive minded team.
If youd have waited for the game to kick off before being embarassed then maybe you'd have seen that it was attacking as we could be really with the people we had availabe. I posted already on my thoughts on the lineup in this thread. And my initial reaction was "hows this gonna play out", took me about a minute to think thats a 352 there. Turnd out to be one of the more positve first halfs of the season so far.

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I refuse to be brow beaten and abused just cos you have a few thousand posts, i think perhaps you need to get a grip on reality.

Whos brow beating you? And like I said before I'd of answere the way I did if it wasmy first post. You stated what you thought and I replied that I've never ever ever been at a match and been embarassed by a team we put out. I've been pissed off at some selections, but hey I'm not a professional manager so what the fuck would I know. Never embarassed before a game though. In fact I find it totally fuckin mental that anyone would be embarassed by a team selection. Disappointed yep. Pissed off, yes. Embarassed only applies when you give a fuck what others think. I honestly dont give a flying fuck if Pompey supporters, Andy fuckin Gray, that twat Sherwood, Paul Merson, or any fucker else think its not to their likin.

We're Liverpool Football Fuckin Club - we've never given a toss about any fucker else.

 
All the badge kissing in the world don't make up for the fact that they are, frankly, not Liverpool Football Club. It's not their fault. Its just how it is.

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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1453 on: February 10, 2009, 08:27:49 pm »
Nice post as always Mr Tomkins. But did you really need quite so many words to point out that Torres and Gerrard are boss players and that when fit they are inevitably going to set the course of the games they feature in. If they were playing for Chelsea or Arsenal, then it would be they who are competing for the title. If they were playing for Utd, they'd probably only be a handful of games from winning the title.
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1454 on: February 10, 2009, 10:27:43 pm »
I'm sure she was called Emilie last week...

whatever she is called she is pretty fit - clicked your link make sure you post all the pics on here because we cant all be arsed with pissing about to get 30 people to click on some shite site
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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1455 on: February 11, 2009, 01:50:15 am »
It was the only time in 23 years of following the club that i have seen other teams fans laughing at us.

Bet they pissed their pants at the final whistle eh :lmao

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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1456 on: February 11, 2009, 06:11:20 am »
The result was a bonus yes, but it takes nothing away from how the majority of fans who were actually at the game felt, before during, and even after the game. i am a realist and i was merely pointing out what happened during the game. Unless you were there and witnessed what i did then you cant really judge.


What exactly does "the result was a bonus mean".  Why are we playing if not to get a result?

Also, not sure what you are getting at in terms of "what happened during the game" or what you "witnessed" before, during and after the game.  From what I saw it was a pretty good and positive performance, that resulted in a deserved (if late) win.  So any doubts or reservations that you or anyone else held before the game - and let's face it most people would have had some - should have been resolved by the performance and result (even just the result).  The logic that followed in explanations on here, by rafa, in the times, from tompkins should merely be talking points after the fact.....the game should have been enough to persuade anyone that the team selected did the job required. 

So, what were you getting at?  What did you "witness"?
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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1457 on: February 11, 2009, 08:18:45 am »
Cannot believe anybody in their right mind could describe our lineup and formation on Saturday as negative. It was basically a 3-4-3 switching to 3-5-2 at times with attacking wing backs and Agger having licence to get forward at will.
Perhaps people see 6 players who are nominally defenders and make assumptions, well that's fair enough but once the match kicked off it was obvious to all except clueless and agenda-driven media pundits that we had a very positive lineup. You'd think our own fans might get it.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 08:22:07 am by The 5th Benitle »

Offline Tom-D

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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1458 on: February 11, 2009, 06:17:18 pm »
Agreed 100%. Was also impressed with the job Fabio did as a CDM.

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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1459 on: February 13, 2009, 02:28:50 am »
I'm watching the game again. Nugent just scored. Skrtel missed a tackle on Crouch, and ended up off balance. He did manage to force Crouch inside, where Carra and Dagger were waiting to snuff out the danger. Crouchie played a brilliant ball back across to his left to Nugent, and once again, worryingly, Arbeloa was a few paces behind him and got burnt. Cue commentators taking the piss.

Skittles and Arbeloa fucked up again. But these lads are special. After Mascherano hassled and harried to win the ball in midfield, it was Arbeloa and Skittles coming up the right like a rash on Crouch which forced him to try a suicidal backpass to James. ARBELOA AND SKITTLES. The two chased Crouch up the right hand side so far up that Skittles looked like a bald right winger.

Offline theallseeingeye

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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1460 on: February 13, 2009, 03:13:34 am »
Just got back from south coast after incorporating watching the game into a short break and i just have to say that i was embarrassed! A lot of you are going to read this and think why be embarrassed after winning and my answer to that is because of the team we put out. Yes we won, but it was very nervy and it was certainly not because of the eleven players Rafa picked. It was the only time in 23 years of following the club that i have seen other teams fans laughing at us. They couldnt believe the team, and nor could the fans all around me either, and despite the win i know there is a more than a few hundred people, who were at the match who were decidedly unhappy. Dont get me wrong, the game was dramatic and tense but should it have been? Im not too sure it should. It was Kuyt and Torres that got the result and i will be very surprised if Rafa ever names a team like that again. This is just my view and we did win but things are not all rosy in my eyes, far from it. There was one positive and that is i believe that Aurelio had his best game in red shirt for me in midfield, its a shame that once stevie back i doubt he will play there much. Having said all that i truly hope this proves to be a catalyst that we need to go on a winning run and prove those doubters (me included) wrong


your embarrassed!! ..really.. lets guess when you got home to manchester you got ribbed by some mancs
who like yourself let the media pick your opinion. the only people who have been shouting for rafas  head
are OTT'ers and ppl who don't understand what rafa did on saturday  why not give your tickets to someone who won't be ashamed of liverpool winning a tough away fixture. you've got the hallmarks of imposter(man utd , everton) wouldn't it be best all round if your allegiance was kept up in manchester with all your cronies and chortle how all them 1-0's your buddies have seen is what footballs all about ...oh i was there on sat and didn't hear 1 negative shout on the way home. embarrassed!! yes with the likes of you in the fold it certainly is embarrassing

Offline Chat Rifles

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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1461 on: February 13, 2009, 04:23:18 am »
your embarrassed!! ..really.. lets guess when you got home to manchester you got ribbed by some mancs
who like yourself let the media pick your opinion. the only people who have been shouting for rafas  head
are OTT'ers and ppl who don't understand what rafa did on saturday  why not give your tickets to someone who won't be ashamed of liverpool winning a tough away fixture. you've got the hallmarks of imposter(man utd , everton) wouldn't it be best all round if your allegiance was kept up in manchester with all your cronies and chortle how all them 1-0's your buddies have seen is what footballs all about ...oh i was there on sat and didn't hear 1 negative shout on the way home. embarrassed!! yes with the likes of you in the fold it certainly is embarrassing

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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1462 on: February 13, 2009, 09:15:50 am »
King Kenny's opinion:

DALGLISH DISMISSES 'NONSENSE' CRITICS
Jimmy Rice 13 February 2009 
  Kenny Dalglish believes critics of Rafa Benitez's team selection at Portsmouth are talking 'nonsense'. 
The gaffer raised a few eyebrows with a 5-3-2 formation without Xabi Alonso, Dirk Kuyt, Albert Riera and Fernando Torres.
 
Despite the fact it took a late goal from Torres to wrap up the points, Dalglish believes victory was fully deserved.
 
The Kop icon told LFC Magazine: "To be fair to Rafa Benitez, in the face of yet more ridiculous nonsense, I think the formation he chose to play at Fratton Park was excellent.
 
"Everyone looked happy with their role in the team and when that happens you've always got a chance.
 
"The one thing people seem to be missing with Rafa's selection is the effect it had on Portsmouth.
 
"I don't know how much work Rafa was able to do with the players with this idea in mind, but by the time the players kicked off on Saturday night they all knew what it was they were supposed to be doing.
 
"In contrast, Pompey didn't have a clue and were taken off guard. Imagine you were Tony Adams and you saw that team - you've spent all week working on a formation, then you're up against something new and unexpected.
 
"If we'd taken our chances then Rafa's decision would rightly have been hailed a masterstroke. It took Pompey an hour and a sub before they got into the game.
 
"The two goals they got were avoidable but there was little the boss could do from the touchline to prevent those.
 
"The media are hailing it as a lucky result. Even if he'd picked the team they clearly believed to be the best, would we still not have needed a wee bit of luck?
 
"Of course we'd still have needed a slice of luck, but would anyone really argue that we didn't deserve to win that game? I don't think so!"
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N163244090213-0824.htm

Offline MNAA

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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1463 on: February 13, 2009, 10:21:16 am »
Hail the King. Kenny ... spot on as always.
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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1464 on: February 13, 2009, 10:58:40 am »
King Kenny's opinion:

DALGLISH DISMISSES 'NONSENSE' CRITICS
Jimmy Rice 13 February 2009 
  Kenny Dalglish believes critics of Rafa Benitez's team selection at Portsmouth are talking 'nonsense'. 
The gaffer raised a few eyebrows with a 5-3-2 formation without Xabi Alonso, Dirk Kuyt, Albert Riera and Fernando Torres.
 
Despite the fact it took a late goal from Torres to wrap up the points, Dalglish believes victory was fully deserved.
 
The Kop icon told LFC Magazine: "To be fair to Rafa Benitez, in the face of yet more ridiculous nonsense, I think the formation he chose to play at Fratton Park was excellent.

...
 
"Of course we'd still have needed a slice of luck, but would anyone really argue that we didn't deserve to win that game? I don't think so!"
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N163244090213-0824.htm


There is only one rule: Everything is not as it seems.

Great article by Tomkins too - seems United really do rely on just a couple of players, as if WE needed telling  :P And our record without Nando puts to bed the one/two man team rubbish.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 11:02:55 am by HindleyRedSkin »

Offline Torben Piechniks Y-Fronts

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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1465 on: February 13, 2009, 11:55:10 am »
Fighting we areand I honestly believe we should not fear Man U-they will not continue keeping clean sheets till the end of the season, that will not happen.Their best player is a shadow of last years player of the year, we have scored more than them, we have beaten them already, we have lost less league games than them, we will have to play less games than them.
We will not draw as many games from here on in, fingers crossed we will get a run of 11 league games with Gerrard and Torres at 100%, our defence is sound and we have a hunger and determination running throught the team that means we will fight to the last kick of every game like we have done so many tiumes this season.
We are a bloody good team, not perfect, but bloody good and capable of winning every game till the end of the season!
Bring it on! Isn't it great to be involve in this fight for a change! I for one am loving it :-)
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Offline Mackinaw Peach

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Re: Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool - We are still fighting
« Reply #1466 on: February 13, 2009, 06:34:54 pm »

Bring it on! Isn't it great to be involve in this fight for a change! I for one am loving it :-)
Come on de fuck Redmen!

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