Topic: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"

[PETERC1992]

under houllier we finished second
rafa has not done that yet

Under houlliers we never won teh champions league .
Whos to say we wont finish 2nd this year..even first is on the cards...

can u believe tht..FIRST...we can actually do tht...u wudnt think so wit the position we ar ein at the minute?

[Baz76]

Last night I started a Sack Rafa thread for a laugh. Why don't you have the bollacks to just call this it, say what you really think - Sack Rafa - and be done with it?

You are entitled to your opinion. You shouldn't just be leathered for it. but you should have the courage of your convictions and be straight about it.

 

He is not saying that Fat, he is presenting an argument on a subject that is so far, equally dividing opinions. Your tongue in cheek "Sack Rafa" yadda is just  typical of the cliched and generic off the cuff shit you have been posting on here lately. It really reeks (IMO) of someone who cant present a structured argument or difference of opinion.

It is a genuine and big enough consensus that the managers over analytical, obsessively cautious and questionable tactics are seriously undermining our title chances at the moment. Support for the manager is clearly divided. if someone offers constructive negative criticism towards Rafa that you don't agree with, then please offer a better argument than the patronising rubbish you have been coming out with.

[Fat Scouser]

I'm sometimes baffled by Rafa, but then I know fuck all about football compared to him. Neither do I have the information at his disposal - who's been training well, who's carrying a knock. So, before the game, I leave picking the team to him and he leaves the drinking to me.

[BCCC]

I can't get my head around this. Houllier was going backwards, he'd taken us to 2nd place before he lost the plot and by that I mean he tried to change the team. Houllier's success was based on soaking up pressure and hitting on the break. I hated watching us defend the 18yd box and then try to release Owen. He was conscious of this and tried to change to a more attacking style and failed miserably. He was outside his comfort zone.

By comparison although defensively cautious Benitez has far more about him. You could accuse him of over analysing at times but the comparison with Houllier is ridiculous.

Lets not forget we are improving year on year under Rafa so why sack him whilst we are improving it doesn't make sense?

[Fanxxxxtastic]

Well, I finally got round to reading the answers. I intended to answer them, but, in all honesty, once I saw your answer for a replacement manager was Mourinho I changed my mind. In fact, I nearly lost the will to live.
Me and  KOTP crossed swords in another thread about Rafa. He kept saying Rafa didn't act in the "Liverpool Way." I'd like to go on about the Liverpool way, but I've done that in other threads. But I'll say this.... Mourinho is the absolute anti-christ of the Liverpool way.

I honestly, personally hate the man that much that if he ever did become manager of LFC, I would stop going to all games immeadiately and wouldn't go to another until he was gone. And that's coming from a man who has been going to watch Liverpool for 45 years.

And once I saw his name, I was tempted to just print Fuck off in highlighted capitals, but I'll try to be above me usual self. But take it from me, Mourinho would truly be the final nail in the coffin of The Liverpool Way.

On top of that, Mourinho is also basically a very cautious manager. His teams play shit on a stick football and grind out very boring 1 - 0 wins. But why let facts like that stand in the way when finding another alternative is so hard if not impossible.

Also, did you not see Rafa's Valencia play? Boring, defensive football, I think not. We are work in progress - results and substance must come before flair. The hardest title to win is the first one. Style can be added once it's in the cabinet. They also seem to come in clusters too. And let's be honest.. who can honestly say they haven't been thrilled with some of our football during Rafa's shift?

Quick word on The Liverpool Way... it never just evolved or materialised out of the blue. Bill and Bob fought the board tooth and nail to make them conduct business in that manner. And Bill was never shy about going public with any of his gripes, or using us fans to help him push for what he wanted. We also had great men like John Smith and Peter Robinson conducting business for us - the exact polar opposites of Parry and H&G.

But anyway, instead of answering the answers, I will say this... I honestly think a lot of this stems from the fact that we have been completely ruined as fans by our success. In fact, Rafa created a terrible rod for his own back by winning the CL in his first season. Our expectations are quite laughable at times and no wonder fans of other clubs call us Whingeing Scousers.

Even through the lean years we have picked up trophies and our record would have been perfectly acceptable at other clubs. Imagine Portsmouth having the success we've had in the Ged/Rafa years. Fuck me. they made Harry Redknapp a free man of the city for winning the FA Cup. They even gave it to the spiv bastard after he'd kicked shit in their face and went to Spurs - a full two days after he'd fucked off.

We're not Pompey you will say. I know we are not - we boo when going top of the league. They sing non stop when getting twatted 8 - 0. But other than that, we have things in common - we're both skint and we have turmoil in the boardroom. But we expect, no demand, to win league titles against the most formidable richest opponents we have ever faced.

I think alot of this has to do with this fucking awful time of instant celebrity, fame and riches. No one wants to earn things now. A lot of young people have a smaller attention span than a goldfish. Yeah. I might be an auld bastard, but I don't watch highlights of Man U or Arsenal on MOTD and think they play like that for 90 minutes week in week out. And I'm certainly not having a go at young people. I know some cracking young reds. But it does seem to be an age thing. The problem is building a successful football team and leaving a lasting legace, still requires the sort of time it did in the glory years. I never hear any of these gripes in the auld arse thread.

After Saturday's wonder goal, one young fella on here said to me in all seriousness... We should buy Koncheski. When I pointed out the last time he scored a goal, it was really a cock up of a cross against us I was just surprised he even remembered we'd been to Cardiff. That's why I just say fuck off to most people who have lost faith in Rafa - they haven't got a fucking clue and just regurgitate what they are force fed by the media. "Skywashed" as someone on here named it.

I've no idea how old the OP is, but I just wish people like KOTP - who's probably far cleverer than me - would take the time to think of what could happen if Rafa jumps or is pushed.

Where would that leave us? In complete disarray, I'd think. And how long would it take us to pull out of it? Lets face it, even if a great manager was to come in under the best of circumstances, it would still take him time to implement his plans. I think, well, I'm practically certain, Arsene Wenger won the league in his first attempt. But he did take over a great side and had/has a good boardroom behind him.

So KOTP, as me Ninna would say, be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

Rafa sackers, really need to develop a little patientce. His lot is not an easy one. The boardroom will never give him there full support - we should.

But if he hasn't delivered the title in a couple of season's, when he's been allowed to buy the players he wants - within a set budget - I will join you. But I won't be doing it in slyly veiled little snipes. I'll be calling for his head good and proper. But until that time has clearly come, I'm fucked if I want to lose the best manager we've had since Sir Bob before he's had time to finish the job.

Fantastic post FS!

Agree with every word you've said.

This has made me forgive you for that joke thread you started last night 

[HarryLabrador]

I'm sometimes baffled by Rafa, but then I know fuck all about football compared to him. Neither do I have the information at his disposal - who's been training well, who's carrying a knock. So, before the game, I leave picking the team to him and he leaves the drinking to me.

 

[jamiehill]

Are these people on here who want Rafa out REALLY Liverpool supporters or just Bluenoses, Mancs, Journo's or troublemakers trying to breed some instability in the camp.

I prefer to listen to the opinions of people like Kenny Dalglish and Ian Rush who understand football rather than some of the spineless pansies on this forum when it comes to making a judgment about our Rafa.

Rafa is (quite rightly) one of the most respected football managers in the world and there are some dumb fucks around who (in hindsight) think they could do better.

[Tarpaulin]

Some shite posted on here.

How can he not be taking us forward? When have we been top of the premier league [all be it jointly now] at this stage of the season in the last 10 years?

Rafa has given us one of the strongest spines of a team that we have ever had, and we are still in all the cup competitions we want to be in. [Who's really that arsed about the league cup?]

I think people need to take a reality check.

[steveeastend]

just dont think rafa should be given a free ride and be hailed as a footballing genius coz he won the champions league in fortunate circumstances

no but he isnt good enough is he? and the kop did sigh automatically when they saw him.

This is the point, start using your head and think. He WASN`T ALLOWED TO SPEND THE MONEY ON THE HEAVYWEIGHTS HE DESIRED. THIS IS WHAT HE IS ASKING FOR.

He brought us to the place where we are now with limited freedom to act and limited budget. Lucas was a compromise. But it wasn´t his fault. It is to his credit that he did the best under the given circumstances. And that is CL, FA and 2nd. Get it?

[martinjmmac5]

He is not saying that Fat, he is presenting an argument on a subject that is so far, equally dividing opinions. Your tongue in cheek "Sack Rafa" yadda is just  typical of the cliched and generic off the cuff shit you have been posting on here lately. It really reeks (IMO) of someone who cant present a structured argument or difference of opinion.

It is a genuine and big enough consensus that the managers over analytical, obsessively cautious and questionable tactics are seriously undermining our title chances at the moment. Support for the manager is clearly divided. if someone offers constructive negative criticism towards Rafa that you don't agree with, then please offer a better argument than the patronising rubbish you have been coming out with.

exactly

[Fat Scouser]

He is not saying that Fat, he is presenting an argument on a subject that is so far, equally dividing opinions. Your tongue in cheek "Sack Rafa" yadda is just  typical of the cliched and generic off the cuff shit you have been posting on here lately. It really reeks (IMO) of someone who cant present a structured argument or difference of opinion.

It is a genuine and big enough consensus that the managers over analytical, obsessively cautious and questionable tactics are seriously undermining our title chances at the moment. Support for the manager is clearly divided. if someone offers constructive negative criticism towards Rafa that you don't agree with, then please offer a better argument than the patronising rubbish you have been coming out with.

Ohh'err I think I've just been attacked.
But bide with my stupisity for a moment, oh clever one, and answer me this.... If the original poster thinks Rafa has indeed had his Houllier moment, I can only summise, as he more or less said himself, that he has lost faith in Rafa. therefore, in my inane stupidity, I summised it was a reasonable assumption to think he would like him sacked.

The OP has not answered this in one way or another. But I think it's only fair that he should say what he means... Sack Rafa.

Okay, oh grand muftiness of the humour and cerebrally challenged?

[JP-65]

Are these people on here who want Rafa out REALLY Liverpool supporters or just Bluenoses, Mancs, Journo's or troublemakers trying to breed some instability in the camp.

I prefer to listen to the opinions of people like Kenny Dalglish and Ian Rush who understand football rather than some of the spineless pansies on this forum when it comes to making a judgment about our Rafa.

Rafa is (quite rightly) one of the most respected football managers in the world and there are some dumb fucks around who (in hindsight) think they could do better.

It's the same dozen or so posters who spout the same old shyte in every thread, getting seriously monotonous.

[Cadno]

Well, I finally got round to reading the answers. I intended to answer them, but, in all honesty, once I saw your answer for a replacement manager was Mourinho I changed my mind. In fact, I nearly lost the will to live.
Me and  KOTP crossed swords in another thread about Rafa. He kept saying Rafa didn't act in the "Liverpool Way." I'd like to go on about the Liverpool way, but I've done that in other threads. But I'll say this.... Mourinho is the absolute anti-christ of the Liverpool way.

I honestly, personally hate the man that much that if he ever did become manager of LFC, I would stop going to all games immeadiately and wouldn't go to another until he was gone. And that's coming from a man who has been going to watch Liverpool for 45 years.

And once I saw his name, I was tempted to just print Fuck off in highlighted capitals, but I'll try to be above me usual self. But take it from me, Mourinho would truly be the final nail in the coffin of The Liverpool Way.

On top of that, Mourinho is also basically a very cautious manager. His teams play shit on a stick football and grind out very boring 1 - 0 wins. But why let facts like that stand in the way when finding another alternative is so hard if not impossible.

Also, did you not see Rafa's Valencia play? Boring, defensive football, I think not. We are work in progress - results and substance must come before flair. The hardest title to win is the first one. Style can be added once it's in the cabinet. They also seem to come in clusters too. And let's be honest.. who can honestly say they haven't been thrilled with some of our football during Rafa's shift?

Quick word on The Liverpool Way... it never just evolved or materialised out of the blue. Bill and Bob fought the board tooth and nail to make them conduct business in that manner. And Bill was never shy about going public with any of his gripes, or using us fans to help him push for what he wanted. We also had great men like John Smith and Peter Robinson conducting business for us - the exact polar opposites of Parry and H&G.

But anyway, instead of answering the answers, I will say this... I honestly think a lot of this stems from the fact that we have been completely ruined as fans by our success. In fact, Rafa created a terrible rod for his own back by winning the CL in his first season. Our expectations are quite laughable at times and no wonder fans of other clubs call us Whingeing Scousers.

Even through the lean years we have picked up trophies and our record would have been perfectly acceptable at other clubs. Imagine Portsmouth having the success we've had in the Ged/Rafa years. Fuck me. they made Harry Redknapp a free man of the city for winning the FA Cup. They even gave it to the spiv bastard after he'd kicked shit in their face and went to Spurs - a full two days after he'd fucked off.

We're not Pompey you will say. I know we are not - we boo when going top of the league. They sing non stop when getting twatted 8 - 0. But other than that, we have things in common - we're both skint and we have turmoil in the boardroom. But we expect, no demand, to win league titles against the most formidable richest opponents we have ever faced.

I think alot of this has to do with this fucking awful time of instant celebrity, fame and riches. No one wants to earn things now. A lot of young people have a smaller attention span than a goldfish. Yeah. I might be an auld bastard, but I don't watch highlights of Man U or Arsenal on MOTD and think they play like that for 90 minutes week in week out. And I'm certainly not having a go at young people. I know some cracking young reds. But it does seem to be an age thing. The problem is building a successful football team and leaving a lasting legace, still requires the sort of time it did in the glory years. I never hear any of these gripes in the auld arse thread.

After Saturday's wonder goal, one young fella on here said to me in all seriousness... We should buy Koncheski. When I pointed out the last time he scored a goal, it was really a cock up of a cross against us I was just surprised he even remembered we'd been to Cardiff. That's why I just say fuck off to most people who have lost faith in Rafa - they haven't got a fucking clue and just regurgitate what they are force fed by the media. "Skywashed" as someone on here named it.

I've no idea how old the OP is, but I just wish people like KOTP - who's probably far cleverer than me - would take the time to think of what could happen if Rafa jumps or is pushed.

Where would that leave us? In complete disarray, I'd think. And how long would it take us to pull out of it? Lets face it, even if a great manager was to come in under the best of circumstances, it would still take him time to implement his plans. I think, well, I'm practically certain, Arsene Wenger won the league in his first attempt. But he did take over a great side and had/has a good boardroom behind him.

So KOTP, as me Ninna would say, be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

Rafa sackers, really need to develop a little patientce. His lot is not an easy one. The boardroom will never give him there full support - we should.

But if he hasn't delivered the title in a couple of season's, when he's been allowed to buy the players he wants - within a set budget - I will join you. But I won't be doing it in slyly veiled little snipes. I'll be calling for his head good and proper. But until that time has clearly come, I'm fucked if I want to lose the best manager we've had since Sir Bob before he's had time to finish the job.

That is a fantastic post.  Its just a shame it will fall on deaf ears.

[kingofleinster]

shankly would turn in his grave if he saw the club's problems being done in the open and if he saw lucas leiva doing anything but serving burgers at half time, but most of all he would turn in his grave if he saw us scoring a goal against e'ton then trying to sit it out with lucas 'foul' leiva coming on and not having a striker on the pitch to kill off the game.
we played against stoke without a striker for fuck sake what was that about?

Agree, Home game taking of your two strikers, doesn't make sense,

[lfcss]

Well, I finally got round to reading the answers. I intended to answer them, but, in all honesty, once I saw your answer for a replacement manager was Mourinho I changed my mind. In fact, I nearly lost the will to live.
Me and  KOTP crossed swords in another thread about Rafa. He kept saying Rafa didn't act in the "Liverpool Way." I'd like to go on about the Liverpool way, but I've done that in other threads. But I'll say this.... Mourinho is the absolute anti-christ of the Liverpool way.

I honestly, personally hate the man that much that if he ever did become manager of LFC, I would stop going to all games immeadiately and wouldn't go to another until he was gone. And that's coming from a man who has been going to watch Liverpool for 45 years.

And once I saw his name, I was tempted to just print Fuck off in highlighted capitals, but I'll try to be above me usual self. But take it from me, Mourinho would truly be the final nail in the coffin of The Liverpool Way.

On top of that, Mourinho is also basically a very cautious manager. His teams play shit on a stick football and grind out very boring 1 - 0 wins. But why let facts like that stand in the way when finding another alternative is so hard if not impossible.

Also, did you not see Rafa's Valencia play? Boring, defensive football, I think not. We are work in progress - results and substance must come before flair. The hardest title to win is the first one. Style can be added once it's in the cabinet. They also seem to come in clusters too. And let's be honest.. who can honestly say they haven't been thrilled with some of our football during Rafa's shift?

Quick word on The Liverpool Way... it never just evolved or materialised out of the blue. Bill and Bob fought the board tooth and nail to make them conduct business in that manner. And Bill was never shy about going public with any of his gripes, or using us fans to help him push for what he wanted. We also had great men like John Smith and Peter Robinson conducting business for us - the exact polar opposites of Parry and H&G.

But anyway, instead of answering the answers, I will say this... I honestly think a lot of this stems from the fact that we have been completely ruined as fans by our success. In fact, Rafa created a terrible rod for his own back by winning the CL in his first season. Our expectations are quite laughable at times and no wonder fans of other clubs call us Whingeing Scousers.

Even through the lean years we have picked up trophies and our record would have been perfectly acceptable at other clubs. Imagine Portsmouth having the success we've had in the Ged/Rafa years. Fuck me. they made Harry Redknapp a free man of the city for winning the FA Cup. They even gave it to the spiv bastard after he'd kicked shit in their face and went to Spurs - a full two days after he'd fucked off.

We're not Pompey you will say. I know we are not - we boo when going top of the league. They sing non stop when getting twatted 8 - 0. But other than that, we have things in common - we're both skint and we have turmoil in the boardroom. But we expect, no demand, to win league titles against the most formidable richest opponents we have ever faced.

I think alot of this has to do with this fucking awful time of instant celebrity, fame and riches. No one wants to earn things now. A lot of young people have a smaller attention span than a goldfish. Yeah. I might be an auld bastard, but I don't watch highlights of Man U or Arsenal on MOTD and think they play like that for 90 minutes week in week out. And I'm certainly not having a go at young people. I know some cracking young reds. But it does seem to be an age thing. The problem is building a successful football team and leaving a lasting legace, still requires the sort of time it did in the glory years. I never hear any of these gripes in the auld arse thread.

After Saturday's wonder goal, one young fella on here said to me in all seriousness... We should buy Koncheski. When I pointed out the last time he scored a goal, it was really a cock up of a cross against us I was just surprised he even remembered we'd been to Cardiff. That's why I just say fuck off to most people who have lost faith in Rafa - they haven't got a fucking clue and just regurgitate what they are force fed by the media. "Skywashed" as someone on here named it.

I've no idea how old the OP is, but I just wish people like KOTP - who's probably far cleverer than me - would take the time to think of what could happen if Rafa jumps or is pushed.

Where would that leave us? In complete disarray, I'd think. And how long would it take us to pull out of it? Lets face it, even if a great manager was to come in under the best of circumstances, it would still take him time to implement his plans. I think, well, I'm practically certain, Arsene Wenger won the league in his first attempt. But he did take over a great side and had/has a good boardroom behind him.

So KOTP, as me Ninna would say, be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

Rafa sackers, really need to develop a little patientce. His lot is not an easy one. The boardroom will never give him there full support - we should.

But if he hasn't delivered the title in a couple of season's, when he's been allowed to buy the players he wants - within a set budget - I will join you. But I won't be doing it in slyly veiled little snipes. I'll be calling for his head good and proper. But until that time has clearly come, I'm fucked if I want to lose the best manager we've had since Sir Bob before he's had time to finish the job.

Time and time again FS cuts through the nonsense that appears on these boards FS for PM 

On a more serious note the fans (and i use the word lightly) who are calling for Rafa to go make me want to weep.If he left it would set us back years just when we are starting to see the light at the end of the titleless tunnel some people want to brick up the exit.

[martinjmmac5]

Ohh'err I think I've just been attacked.
But bide with my stupisity for a moment, oh clever one, and answer me this.... If the original poster thinks Rafa has indeed had his Houllier moment, I can only summise, as he more or less said himself, that he has lost faith in Rafa. therefore, in my inane stupidity, I summised it was a reasonable assumption to think he would like him sacked.

The OP has not answered this in one way or another. But I think it's only fair that he should say what he means... Sack Rafa.

Okay, oh grand muftiness of the humour and cerebrally challenged?

so slightly criticising rafa benitez means i want him out, i have categorically said this on severaly occassions, i have my own opinion, but people like you think that only their opinion is valid and that they are all knowing. i have not said he has had his houllier moment i just think that he needs to change his tactics and this almost O.C.D substitution strategy, it was a better starting line up last night than in previous games but i would have rather had the same team on all game than bring on a 9 stone lad with the hair of a lion and the tackling skills of a 22 stone sunday league player, he isn't good enough and i don't think anyone can argue that he is, he hasn't got potential, that's what 16 year olds have and how Rafa can obviously still think he is really good is beyond me. Yossi fair enough squad player and that goal against Wigan last year was great but can Lucas really be classed as a suitable replacement for anybody in the starting line up yesterday and Masch. the answer is IN MY OPINION 'NO'.

[Fat Scouser]

Agree, Home game taking of your two strikers, doesn't make sense,

If you agree that Shanks would be turning in his grave at business being done in public, then you are deluded. If Shanks was in the job now, he'd probably be on The Kop roof, holding a protest.

Why do people insist on this myth that shankly kept everything behind closed doors. bill had no problem whatsoever with using the media and us fans to get his way

[No666]

That is a fantastic post.  Its just a shame it will fall on deaf ears.

And immediately you were proved right.

[MAL05]

Agree, Home game taking of your two strikers, doesn't make sense,

[Fat Scouser]

so slightly criticising rafa benitez means i want him out,

Are you really thick or just self obsessed... the post of mine that you just qouted had fuck all to do with you. It was about the original post and poster.

[LF]

We've come too far in this ride to turn back now. Whatever happens, I'll and you should stick with it till the very end. We may not end up winning the title, Rafa may get sacked but support. the club, the player's, the manager needs our support. A win next time will easily stop the rot, nothing is lost yet. Till the very end. Fight on, fuck whether you believe Rafa can win the title or not. If he doesn't we will end up replacing him anyway. Just support till the very end.

[bonzer red]

Agree, Home game taking of your two strikers, doesn't make sense,

firstly Keane done nothing all night, couldn't get involved, needed to be changed, Nando has been out injured and he went down under a tackle in the second half and stayed down clutching his ankle/lower leg and was a bit slow and not moving too freely after that, to be honest i wouldn't have taken any chances with him

[BCCC]

If you agree that Shanks would be turning in his grave at business being done in public, then you are deluded. If Shanks was in the job now, he'd probably be on The Kop roof, holding a protest.

Why do people insist on this myth that shankly kept everything behind closed doors. bill had no problem whatsoever with using the media and us fans to get his way

Agreed, some people haven't a clue about Shanks. He used to bloody resign once a week!

I still think his brinkmanship with the board backfired on him in '74.

[Cadno]

And immediately you were proved right.

Did you realy expect any diffrent?  I get the feeling at the moment that if we did win the league that some "supporters" on here would be gutted.  It would take away their sole reason for existing in criticising everything.  If fact it would not surprise me on little bit to see the second post of the "we won the league" saying "we shoud have won by more points" 

[T-Bone]

Had this thread been posted in the early minutes after the game yesterday, I guess I somehow could've understood it. But posting that shite after a (hopefully) good night's sleep? Come on, this is silly.

[Fat Scouser]

but people like you think that only their opinion is valid and that they are all knowing.

If you knew me or had read any of my opinions you wouldn't be using that as an excuse to have a go at Rafa. I constantly say in here how thick I am and how many people in here know far more than me. Sadly lad, you aren't one of them. So why not take the cotton wool out of your ears, stick it in your mouth and shut up and listen to them. You might learn a thing or two and even enjoy it

[saintslfc13]

To be fair, from what I know and read about Shanks, he'd have told all the drama queens to fuck off and watch soap operas if they can't enjoy the nature of football. At the same time he'd be twatting all the players who continue to fuck up in the same way multiple times. It'd be great in my opinion.

[martinjmmac5]

If you agree that Shanks would be turning in his grave at business being done in public, then you are deluded. If Shanks was in the job now, he'd probably be on The Kop roof, holding a protest.

Why do people insist on this myth that shankly kept everything behind closed doors. bill had no problem whatsoever with using the media and us fans to get his way

yer but he had the intelect and the character, from what i am lead to believe, to cope with it all and use it positively, whereas sitting round saying that you wanted to have virtually full control over Liverpool F.C is deluded and that a hierarchy should just me sacked off, i understand this hierarchy isn't great with parry and the yanks but that is how every company in the world is run, how society is run and he is trying to rewrite that, it's mind boggling. We all know you are an older gentleman and cut your teeth in the boys pen or whatever but that does not make you MR FUCKIN LIVERPOOL F.C my opinion matters just as much as yours and so does fuckin Ivor sealbeater's from norway and paddy o'shea from ireland and at the end of the day it's a messageboard, there wouldn't be one if every single person thought exactly the same.

[BCCC]

Well, I finally got round to reading the answers. I intended to answer them, but, in all honesty, once I saw your answer for a replacement manager was Mourinho I changed my mind. In fact, I nearly lost the will to live.
Me and  KOTP crossed swords in another thread about Rafa. He kept saying Rafa didn't act in the "Liverpool Way." I'd like to go on about the Liverpool way, but I've done that in other threads. But I'll say this.... Mourinho is the absolute anti-christ of the Liverpool way.

I honestly, personally hate the man that much that if he ever did become manager of LFC, I would stop going to all games immeadiately and wouldn't go to another until he was gone. And that's coming from a man who has been going to watch Liverpool for 45 years.

And once I saw his name, I was tempted to just print Fuck off in highlighted capitals, but I'll try to be above me usual self. But take it from me, Mourinho would truly be the final nail in the coffin of The Liverpool Way.

On top of that, Mourinho is also basically a very cautious manager. His teams play shit on a stick football and grind out very boring 1 - 0 wins. But why let facts like that stand in the way when finding another alternative is so hard if not impossible.

Also, did you not see Rafa's Valencia play? Boring, defensive football, I think not. We are work in progress - results and substance must come before flair. The hardest title to win is the first one. Style can be added once it's in the cabinet. They also seem to come in clusters too. And let's be honest.. who can honestly say they haven't been thrilled with some of our football during Rafa's shift?

Quick word on The Liverpool Way... it never just evolved or materialised out of the blue. Bill and Bob fought the board tooth and nail to make them conduct business in that manner. And Bill was never shy about going public with any of his gripes, or using us fans to help him push for what he wanted. We also had great men like John Smith and Peter Robinson conducting business for us - the exact polar opposites of Parry and H&G.

But anyway, instead of answering the answers, I will say this... I honestly think a lot of this stems from the fact that we have been completely ruined as fans by our success. In fact, Rafa created a terrible rod for his own back by winning the CL in his first season. Our expectations are quite laughable at times and no wonder fans of other clubs call us Whingeing Scousers.

Even through the lean years we have picked up trophies and our record would have been perfectly acceptable at other clubs. Imagine Portsmouth having the success we've had in the Ged/Rafa years. Fuck me. they made Harry Redknapp a free man of the city for winning the FA Cup. They even gave it to the spiv bastard after he'd kicked shit in their face and went to Spurs - a full two days after he'd fucked off.

We're not Pompey you will say. I know we are not - we boo when going top of the league. They sing non stop when getting twatted 8 - 0. But other than that, we have things in common - we're both skint and we have turmoil in the boardroom. But we expect, no demand, to win league titles against the most formidable richest opponents we have ever faced.

I think alot of this has to do with this fucking awful time of instant celebrity, fame and riches. No one wants to earn things now. A lot of young people have a smaller attention span than a goldfish. Yeah. I might be an auld bastard, but I don't watch highlights of Man U or Arsenal on MOTD and think they play like that for 90 minutes week in week out. And I'm certainly not having a go at young people. I know some cracking young reds. But it does seem to be an age thing. The problem is building a successful football team and leaving a lasting legace, still requires the sort of time it did in the glory years. I never hear any of these gripes in the auld arse thread.

After Saturday's wonder goal, one young fella on here said to me in all seriousness... We should buy Koncheski. When I pointed out the last time he scored a goal, it was really a cock up of a cross against us I was just surprised he even remembered we'd been to Cardiff. That's why I just say fuck off to most people who have lost faith in Rafa - they haven't got a fucking clue and just regurgitate what they are force fed by the media. "Skywashed" as someone on here named it.

I've no idea how old the OP is, but I just wish people like KOTP - who's probably far cleverer than me - would take the time to think of what could happen if Rafa jumps or is pushed.

Where would that leave us? In complete disarray, I'd think. And how long would it take us to pull out of it? Lets face it, even if a great manager was to come in under the best of circumstances, it would still take him time to implement his plans. I think, well, I'm practically certain, Arsene Wenger won the league in his first attempt. But he did take over a great side and had/has a good boardroom behind him.

So KOTP, as me Ninna would say, be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

Rafa sackers, really need to develop a little patientce. His lot is not an easy one. The boardroom will never give him there full support - we should.

But if he hasn't delivered the title in a couple of season's, when he's been allowed to buy the players he wants - within a set budget - I will join you. But I won't be doing it in slyly veiled little snipes. I'll be calling for his head good and proper. But until that time has clearly come, I'm fucked if I want to lose the best manager we've had since Sir Bob before he's had time to finish the job.

That's a great post FS lad.

On a side note did it take you all day to type that or did you nip to the bog leaving the computer logged on to let missus FS take over? 

[stoa]

Yossi fair enough squad player and that goal against Wigan last year was great but can Lucas really be classed as a suitable replacement for anybody in the starting line up yesterday and Masch. the answer is IN MY OPINION 'NO'.

Why is your answer "NO"? Because he has the hair of a lion or because he's a "Brazilian tranny"? Your opinion is worth FUCK ALL, if you can't back it up with anything else than petty name-calling...

[Fat Scouser]

I get the feeling at the moment that if we did win the league that some "supporters" on here would be gutted. 

That is the saddest thing about this gaff. I used to think it was a good way to keep in touch with other reds and have a chat about LFC and footy in general.
Sadly, I've come to realise that some people would actually prefer us/Rafa to fail just so they can say I told you so.
Most of them are just thcik like the daft bastard in here nnow.but sadly some of them are quite smart and use their knowledge to lead the daft sheep into backing them up.

[Fat Scouser]

That's a great post FS lad.

On a side note did it take you all day to type that or did you nip to the bog leaving the computer logged on to let missus FS take over? 

Don't tell anyone mate. I have a reputation to uphold

[Fruity]

It is a genuine and big enough consensus that the managers over analytical, obsessively cautious and questionable tactics are seriously undermining our title chances at the moment.

but its these same tactics that have got us in a position to challenge. Nothing has changed.

[Cadno]

That is the saddest thing about this gaff. I used to think it was a good way to keep in touch with other reds and have a chat about LFC and footy in general.
Sadly, I've come to realise that some people would actually prefer us/Rafa to fail just so they can say I told you so.
Most of them are just thcik like the daft bastard in here nnow.but sadly some of them are quite smart and use their knowledge to lead the daft sheep into backing them up.

Yup.   and its a shame.  They want themselves proved right more than they want Liverpool to succed and for me that is a huge shame.  At a time where we as Liverpool fans should be full of optimism and behind the team regardless of results too many or our own fans are willing us to fail.  We have enough people willing us to fail without our own supporters doing it!!!!

[steveeastend]

Sadly, I've come to realise that some people would actually prefer us/Rafa to fail just so they can say I told you so.
Most of them are just thcik like the daft bastard in here nnow.but sadly some of them are quite smart and use their knowledge to lead the daft sheep into backing them up.

SMG= Smart ass generation. Young, intelligent and stupid in the same place. A phenomenon of the 2000s...

But it´s the experience that counts, which is lacking there and makes them look stupid and arrogant at the same place...

[SallyCinnamon]

yer but he had the intelect and the character, from what i am lead to believe, to cope with it all and use it positively, whereas sitting round saying that you wanted to have virtually full control over Liverpool F.C is deluded and that a hierarchy should just me sacked off, i understand this hierarchy isn't great with parry and the yanks but that is how every company in the world is run, how society is run and he is trying to rewrite that, it's mind boggling. We all know you are an older gentleman and cut your teeth in the boys pen or whatever but that does not make you MR FUCKIN LIVERPOOL F.C my opinion matters just as much as yours and so does fuckin Ivor sealbeater's from norway and paddy o'shea from ireland and at the end of the day it's a messageboard, there wouldn't be one if every single person thought exactly the same.

I am sorry but that is the biggest pile of shite you have written today and you have written some shite.

Am i right in thinking you are saying that Rafa nas neither the intelect or charism to manage LFC and am i right in thinking you are still peddling the tired old bollocks that Rafa wants full control over everythin..

Am i right ?
Am I  because Rafa isn't trying to reinvent the wheel he just wants one that goes round and round.

[Nick110581]

Such a shit thread.

Our fans need some perspective.

[martinjmmac5]

firstly Keane done nothing all night, couldn't get involved, needed to be changed, Nando has been out injured and he went down under a tackle in the second half and stayed down clutching his ankle/lower leg and was a bit slow and not moving too freely after that, to be honest i wouldn't have taken any chances with him

i can't name any other team in the world that plays any part of any match without a fuckin striker, especially liverpool f.c at home against everton, as for 'he stayed down clutchin his ankle' did you watch that shankly thing with st john, lawler and yeats, they were saying how players of today go down for anything (excuse any pun there) he is spanish and gorgeous , is our fernando, he falls to the floor several times a match, ya can't be draggin him off if he takes a heavy tackle. also he is a profesional football player if he is not fit enough by now to play 90 minutes then what is going on. Rafa got it wrong against stoke and last night, bit of a flukey/fortunate goal but it was brough on by us and the mentality installed in the players to get ahead and defend like fuck. no striker on the park, shankly would turn in his grave at that one, the man who virtually created the 4-4-2 formation!

[norv44]

Another one of Rafa's baffling decisions that he makes constantly is his seeming willingness to stick with Lucas who in 18months as far as I can remember has put in 1 good performance against a woeful newcastle. How Rafa can justify bringing him on before Mascherano last night is crazy it wasnt lucas' type of game it was to fast and furious for him he doesnt have a reputation of being a good tackler and that was proven last night when he came on his first impact was to give a free kick away and that continued through his performance.

To be fair to Lucas, he was immense as a replacement for Gerrard in a derby last year, and thanks to Phil Neville's goalkeeping was prevented from scoring the winner. I am sure it's already been mentioned somewhere here, but I can't be bothered to read 10 pages to find it.

*Edit* urgh, I should have at least read the first page. Sorry SMD.

I am not saying I agree with the sub, just that I remember last year thinking wtf?? and Rafa being proven right that time.

[Nick110581]

i can't name any other team in the world that plays any part of any match without a fuckin striker, especially liverpool f.c at home against everton, as for 'he stayed down clutchin his ankle' did you watch that shankly thing with st john, lawler and yeats, they were saying how players of today go down for anything (excuse any pun there) he is spanish and gorgeous , is our fernando, he falls to the floor several times a match, ya can't be draggin him off if he takes a heavy tackle. also he is a profesional football player if he is not fit enough by now to play 90 minutes then what is going on. Rafa got it wrong against stoke and last night, bit of a flukey/fortunate goal but it was brough on by us and the mentality installed in the players to get ahead and defend like fuck. no striker on the park, shankly would turn in his grave at that one, the man who virtually created the 4-4-2 formation!

Didn't Dirk go up front?

Did Yossi make an error fouling someone and the defence fail to pick up Cahill.

To be fair, they deserved a point and all the finger pointing at Rafa is embarrassing.