Author Topic: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger's history - now Unai Emery DIS-appointed  (Read 3921003 times)

Offline Juan Loco

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #120 on: August 24, 2008, 09:30:41 PM »
Looks like I overestimated you if anything.

Walcock and Samir Nobody were fucking atrocious. God help poor old Dirk and Yoshi if they put in that kind of performance.
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Offline pathetic

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #121 on: August 25, 2008, 09:13:13 AM »
i think you'd better enjoy this year cos next year is gonna be worse with fabregas and adebayor being the next to leave arsenal ;D....wouldn't be surprised if spurs beat you to fourth (next year)!
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Offline xavidub

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #122 on: August 25, 2008, 09:44:18 AM »
I like the fact Arsenal just dropped three points at craven fucking cottage

tut tut. We aren't supposed to point out Mr. Wenger's failings.
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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #123 on: August 25, 2008, 09:50:21 AM »

Walcock and Samir Nobody were fucking atrocious.

Were you watching the same game as me? Huge divide on Walcott's performance among Arsenal fans. 

Poor performance, another day might have snatched a draw but you can't allow their large centreback to go unmarked at a corner then have Sagna, Denilson, Van Persie performing so badly.

Still only second game of the season, still better then Man U's start last season and they went on to win the league.

Offline Degs

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #124 on: August 25, 2008, 11:26:25 AM »
Were you watching the same game as me? Huge divide on Walcott's performance among Arsenal fans. 

Poor performance, another day might have snatched a draw but you can't allow their large centreback to go unmarked at a corner then have Sagna, Denilson, Van Persie performing so badly.

Still only second game of the season, still better then Man U's start last season and they went on to win the league.
I thought by now Walcott would have improved skill wise.
He's still the headless chicken only in there for his pace.

If that's the way he plays now then why wasn't he playing at 16 as there's little difference.

Offline Raul!

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #125 on: August 25, 2008, 11:29:26 AM »
Never had anything in particular against Arsenal, despite getting slapped around by some of their fans outside Highbury once but the existence of this thread gave me a perverse satisfaction at their utterly shambolic performance on Saturday.  More of the same and Wenger's babes better get used to life in the UEFA Cup zone.

Offline Degs

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #126 on: August 25, 2008, 11:34:33 AM »
Never had anything in particular against Arsenal, despite getting slapped around by some of their fans outside Highbury once but the existence of this thread gave me a perverse satisfaction at their utterly shambolic performance on Saturday.  More of the same and Wenger's babes better get used to life in the UEFA Cup zone.
I think we best wait until after Leige before making statements like that.

Offline SupaDupaReds

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #127 on: August 25, 2008, 12:08:41 PM »
yeh, wengers 25 year old babes. may aswell compile a list. reasons to not really like arsenal that much.

overrated to shite,
media creamfest at the hint of a new young player in the side,
monotonous football,
rubbish fans generally speaking,
overcelebration of the smallest victory/decision,
shite players that do gay dances when they score (and then look like twats after they lose),
crybaby captain from chelsea,
ALWAYS finish above us in that top 3
large number of bandwagon fans who know as little about football as the matchgoers
shit oo 2 b chant
the "he should be banned forever and ever" nonesense
wenger thinks kids are sexy
think we underestimate them when in fact they overrate themselves
michael thomas
gilles grimandi (dont think i forgot when you stepped on gary maccas hand, you prick)

etc
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Offline Raul!

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #128 on: August 25, 2008, 12:27:32 PM »
I think we best wait until after Leige before making statements like that.
Meant out of the top four at the end of the season actually, not losing at the CL qualifying stages.

Offline RigBon1892

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #129 on: August 25, 2008, 12:31:27 PM »
tis right
Bet he's sat in his office pissing himself with laughter.
Wouldnt sell us Heinze as, amongst other reasons he would improve us but happy to sell Silvestre to Arsenal in an effort to undermine their defence.

Never mind  that he'd already tried to flog him last season to Newcastle but Silvestre refused to go "out of loyalty to Dabo"

And can we quit with this Arsenal are young, already please!!
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Offline RedMichelFerri

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #130 on: August 25, 2008, 12:44:18 PM »
They gonna miss Hleb really bad. Agreed Fabregas was running the show in midfield but Hleb was causing other teams problems with his movement and dribbling (though he rarely takes  shot at goal).
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Offline GoonerD

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #131 on: August 25, 2008, 12:54:02 PM »
They gonna miss Hleb really bad. Agreed Fabregas was running the show in midfield but Hleb was causing other teams problems with his movement and dribbling (though he rarely takes  shot at goal).


As a Gooner, I am worried and rightly so.

When you lose 1/2 of your midfield spine (Hleb, Flamini) and expect players like Walcott or Eboue (!) to step in with almost no back-up, Arsène's youth project is doomed for failure.

I am also sick and tired of hearing how Hleb failed to score goals - yes he did, but his superb skill and movement opened up spaces against any team, enabling other players to score.

We have problems in all four areas:

Almunia is a 2nd choice goalkeeper  who is fine as a back-up, but not good enough to be an Arsenal no1.

Defense is mixed - both fullbacks (Clichy, Sagna) are excellent but none of the tested CB-pairings inspire much confidence, not to speak of Gallas questionable characteristics as a captain.

Midfield is all centred around Cesc, but to perform well, Cesc needs a defensive central midfielder - a Mascherano/Essien type who will cover a lot of ground and doesn't feel any pain.

Attack is probably the most solid department, however, this depends much on the fitness of Robin van Persie. 


Anyway, you look at our bench and it's apparent, that one or two injuries in critical departments (the injury of Sagna and Clichy were sufficient to start a run of losses last season) disqualify us from being a serious title contender.


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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #132 on: August 25, 2008, 01:29:26 PM »

As a Gooner, I am worried and rightly so.

When you lose 1/2 of your midfield spine (Hleb, Flamini) and expect players like Walcott or Eboue (!) to step in with almost no back-up, Arsène's youth project is doomed for failure.

I am also sick and tired of hearing how Hleb failed to score goals - yes he did, but his superb skill and movement opened up spaces against any team, enabling other players to score.

We have problems in all four areas:

Almunia is a 2nd choice goalkeeper  who is fine as a back-up, but not good enough to be an Arsenal no1.

Defense is mixed - both fullbacks (Clichy, Sagna) are excellent but none of the tested CB-pairings inspire much confidence, not to speak of Gallas questionable characteristics as a captain.

Midfield is all centred around Cesc, but to perform well, Cesc needs a defensive central midfielder - a Mascherano/Essien type who will cover a lot of ground and doesn't feel any pain.

Attack is probably the most solid department, however, this depends much on the fitness of Robin van Persie. 


Anyway, you look at our bench and it's apparent, that one or two injuries in critical departments (the injury of Sagna and Clichy were sufficient to start a run of losses last season) disqualify us from being a serious title contender.



Let me ask you, and all the gooners here, aty wehat point do you think Arsene is in last chance saloon? If you didn't do well in the cups and came 4th, would you want him gone? How about 5th?

I know he's built up a lot of good faith, and rightfully so, but that has to end at some point, surely.

Offline MagicHat

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #133 on: August 25, 2008, 02:15:55 PM »
I thought by now Walcott would have improved skill wise.
He's still the headless chicken only in there for his pace.

If that's the way he plays now then why wasn't he playing at 16 as there's little difference.

I thought he had a good first half, problem is he is trying to be more disciplined and still prone to bouts of confidence trouble. His runs are better, tracks back more then he did and a very good player for the U21's so not too concerned.

Quote
Let me ask you, and all the gooners here, aty wehat point do you think Arsene is in last chance saloon? If you didn't do well in the cups and came 4th, would you want him gone? How about 5th?

with the fans? This season or next

With the board? His job is first Cl round and top four every year so they will be more patient. and be assumed to be about to sell every year

Quote
They gonna miss Hleb really bad. Agreed Fabregas was running the show in midfield but Hleb was causing other teams problems with his movement and dribbling (though he rarely takes  shot at goal).

Indeed. We really could have used him at the weekend, even when having a bad game, just one pass of his could unlock the door.

Offline Daranoza

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #134 on: August 25, 2008, 02:22:40 PM »
I must say alot of you on here think Arsenal will finsh 4th place. I thnk all you fans and pundits are going to be in for a shock if you underesitmate the Arsenal, we maybe young but we finshed 3rd above you last season and this year we can be title contenders no doubt.

You're not that young, mate. Common misconception about Arsenal being full of 'kids' when your average age is actually not that much below ours. In fact, take Hyypia out of our team and isn't it around the same?
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Offline rowan_d

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #135 on: August 25, 2008, 02:41:45 PM »
Lets put an end to this fact, or myth. ( this is my interpretation of each teams' 1st choice 11s)

Reina - 25             

Arbeloa - 25           
Carragher - 30       
Agger - 23             
Dossena - 26         

Mascherano - 24     
Alonso - 26

Babel - 21
Gerrard - 28
Keane - 28

Torres - 24

Average age - 25


I don't know how Arsenal's first choice midfield is likely to line up this season, so I'll need a bit of help with that.

Offline sabbathfan

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #136 on: August 25, 2008, 03:01:03 PM »
I've just done a bit of research and I find that the average age of players in this years Arsenal squad is 25. The average age for Liverpool (even with Sami) is 24.5

An interesting thing to point out is that we have a bigger squad (according to independant research) by 7 players. When you look at who those 7 extra players are you get:

Plessis, Nemeth, Kelly, Darby, Insua, N'Gog, Spearing - Thats pretty much every player we have in the first team squad who is 20 or under. The rest are mostly established first team players Gerrard, Torres, Masch, Carra, Pepe, Xabi, Sami, Babel, Kuyt, Arbeloa, Fabio and then the new boys like Keane, Dossena and Degen.

Now look at Arsenal:

They have 7 less players in their squad than we do, yet I still count 7 players 20 or under - Vela, Walcott, Denilson, Ramsay, Song, Wilshere, Mannone, Bendtner. That leaves them with 17 players over 20. If you take into account injuries and suspensions they don't have a lot to fall back on and Arsene's gamble could easily fail.

With us after you take the yongsters out we still have a full squad of 24 players to pick from. That puts less pressure on the youngsters if the squad gets thinned out through inuries and suspension.
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Offline sabbathfan

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #137 on: August 25, 2008, 03:13:40 PM »
Even more interestingly lets look at the spread of ages of both teams. All the under 21s are above.

21-25 Arsenal - Diaby, Sagna, Fabregas, Senderos, Nasri, Eduardo, RVP, Djourou, Fabianski, Clichy, Adebayor, Eboue, Bishoff

21-25 Liverpool - Pepe, Cavalieri, Agger, Torres, Pennant, Arbeloa, Babel, Mascherano, Lucas, Degen, El Zhar, Skrtel, Itandje

Not much of a difference in terms of depth and quality there

25+ Arsenal - Almunia, Toure, Rosicky, Silvestre, Gallas

25+ Liverpool - Dossena, Finnan, Sami, Keane, Gerrard, Voronin, Aurelio, Alonso, Benayoun, Kuyt, Carragher

Much bigger difference there. We have moer players with more experience.
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Offline Ron

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #138 on: August 25, 2008, 03:29:12 PM »
( this is my interpretation of each teams' 1st choice 11s)
No it isn't. It's just a list of 11 random picked Liverpool players.

Quote
I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
It's not so hard to do actually, underestimate Arsenal.
Even when they are having a great season, like the last one, you always know they will fuck it up.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2008, 03:33:54 PM by Ron »

Offline WelshMike

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #139 on: August 25, 2008, 03:29:27 PM »
Boro apparently have the youngest first eleven in the league anyway.
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Offline Juan Loco

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #140 on: August 25, 2008, 03:30:03 PM »
Were you watching the same game as me? Huge divide on Walcott's performance among Arsenal fans. 

Those who thought he was anything but shit on saturday are fucking dim then.

I know I have a go at you lot from the Myopia Nursery alot, but being a 100% genuine and not said for the sake of gloating, your wide players were fucking awful on Saturday and your centre of midfield no better.

If I was going on Saturday´s games alone then Dirk Kuyt would look like the most natural wide player at either club.


Thought fulham looked good though. A far more attractive team to watch than yourselves. If Zamora could keep his Adriano impression going when he´s actually inside the box they´ll do quite well.
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Offline rowan_d

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #141 on: August 25, 2008, 03:33:38 PM »
No it isn't. It's just a list of 11 random picked Liverpool players.

When I typed that part I was intending to put the Arsenal team as well. I did the back 5, but then got confused when it came to the midfield, as I couldn't choose a DM ;D

Offline Ron

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #142 on: August 25, 2008, 03:35:23 PM »
When I typed that part I was intending to put the Arsenal team as well. I did the back 5, but then got confused when it came to the midfield, as I couldn't choose a DM ;D
Ah ! Well, take your time. There soooo young we don't have to hurry !

Offline The Manhattan Project

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #143 on: August 25, 2008, 03:36:45 PM »
Really? I would have said a bit of a grope at best.

OK, groped.

 ;D
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Offline rowan_d

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #144 on: August 25, 2008, 03:37:08 PM »
By the time I've finished, a few of them might have hit puberty. (Unlike Joe Cole)

Offline Ron

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #145 on: August 25, 2008, 03:51:28 PM »
By the time I've finished, a few of them might have hit puberty. (Unlike Joe Cole)
;D ;D ;D

Offline GoonerD

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #146 on: August 25, 2008, 06:41:18 PM »
Let me ask you, and all the gooners here, aty wehat point do you think Arsene is in last chance saloon? If you didn't do well in the cups and came 4th, would you want him gone? How about 5th?

I know he's built up a lot of good faith, and rightfully so, but that has to end at some point, surely.

I am not sure whether Arsène's philosophy of developing nobodies/hardly known players has gone overboard, or whether it is serious financial constraints, not allowing him to keep up with the "market".

I remember when we were trying to sign Essien and Sean Wrigh-Philips the other season, and got completely outbid by Chelsea. Today, our finances are much tighter and Wenger seems to have decided that the players, who would actually improve our squad are not available/unaffordable. Instead, he is chosing to develop the current squad which requires:

a. total commitment of the young players (questionable after having seen them perform on Saturday

b. a loyal "spine" in crucial positions (very much in question with Flamini/Hleb gone - and Adebayor almost gone)

Furthermore, I believe he overestimated the desire of players to be part of a longer team development. Take Hleb for instance - perfect player for our system, but very quick to move once offered more money.  Same goes for Adebayor.

I am still a Wenger-loyalist and believe that given our finances, any new coach would be a massive setback. So I would hate to see him gone.

But looking at our current mifield - and comparing it of LFC, ManU and particularly Chelsea - us Gooners have to be prepared for not winning any title again this season. 

Offline MagicHat

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #147 on: August 25, 2008, 09:42:09 PM »
Quote
I don't know how Arsenal's first choice midfield is likely to line up this season, so I'll need a bit of help with that.

Your assuming anyone under then Arsene knows it. :butt I think it will be Nasri-Mozart-Cesc plus one other, my guess will be Diaby or a buy. Less sure about centreback, think it is still Toure-Gallas but Silvestre addition has thrown things a little there

Those who thought he was anything but shit on saturday are fucking dim then.

I know I have a go at you lot from the Myopia Nursery alot, but being a 100% genuine and not said for the sake of gloating, your wide players were fucking awful on Saturday and your centre of midfield no better.


Thought fulham looked good though. A far more attractive team to watch than yourselves. If Zamora could keep his Adriano impression going when he´s actually inside the box they´ll do quite well.

to even suggest our wide players were anywhere near as bad as our centremidfielders... come on, Denilson was lucky to get 1/10.  At least Walcott and Nasri set up one chance. I did think Walcott did quite well first half but again, a lot of people split on that

Fulham did play well, lacked something in the final third but they have AJ to come back and I'm sure Gera will adjust to the Prem. Certainly an attractive team to watch, I do like Fulham and think Hodgson will be a big success there.

Offline BazC

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #148 on: August 25, 2008, 11:39:34 PM »
How are you guys low on finances? You get the biggest stadium revenue in the Premier League, have a wage bill that's miniscule compared to the other top teams I think and haven't bought many expensive players in...

“This place will become a bastion of invincibility and you are very lucky young man to be here. They will all come here and be beaten son”

Offline TheRedBull

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #149 on: August 25, 2008, 11:51:50 PM »
How are you guys low on finances? You get the biggest stadium revenue in the Premier League, have a wage bill that's miniscule compared to the other top teams I think and haven't bought many expensive players in...


... Have u ever known the word Loan & Interest? :P

Offline BazC

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #150 on: August 25, 2008, 11:56:11 PM »
... Have u ever known the word Loan & Interest? :P

You'd love the irony if you knew me  ;)

Seriously though- I thought the ways they financed their stadium (issued a lot of bonds I think) left them with a decent financial position to spend some money on transfers. I think they refinanced as well- and all this at a good time (ie, before the credit problems).

If they're that fucked financially that they can't even buy a few £10-15m players over the last few years, then I hope our new stadium doesn't get built yet.
“This place will become a bastion of invincibility and you are very lucky young man to be here. They will all come here and be beaten son”

Offline TheRedBull

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #151 on: August 26, 2008, 12:00:08 AM »
If they're that fucked financially that they can't even buy a few £10-15m players over the last few years, then I hope our new stadium doesn't get built yet.
If I remember correctly, their stadium is much more expensive than us because of the price of land in London. I remember their total project cost is almost 1 Billion compares to us 400M...

Offline BazC

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #152 on: August 26, 2008, 12:01:51 AM »
If I remember correctly, their stadium is much more expensive than us because of the price of land in London. I remember their total project cost is almost 1 Billion compares to us 400M...

You're getting confused with Wembley there. There's wasn't even half a billion quid. It was around the £400m mark actually.
“This place will become a bastion of invincibility and you are very lucky young man to be here. They will all come here and be beaten son”

Offline Classycara

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #153 on: August 26, 2008, 01:40:13 AM »
How are you guys low on finances? You get the biggest stadium revenue in the Premier League, have a wage bill that's miniscule compared to the other top teams I think and haven't bought many expensive players in...


MYTH

Offline BazC

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #154 on: August 26, 2008, 01:57:12 AM »
MYTH

May be so. Hence the "I THINK" right after it. But even still, the other points still stand  :wave

“This place will become a bastion of invincibility and you are very lucky young man to be here. They will all come here and be beaten son”

Offline Fletchinho

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #155 on: August 26, 2008, 01:58:50 AM »
hehehehe, Did he login after the defeat yet?

Offline Classycara

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #156 on: August 26, 2008, 03:05:53 AM »
May be so. Hence the "I THINK" right after it. But even still, the other points still stand  :wave



i wasn't having a go at you. you said you thought, and i said that it was wrong.

i agree with the other points. wenger himself continually claims to have a lot of money available for transfers should he wish. he even mentioned £80 million at one point last season, in what looks like an attempt to draw praise for not spending big. if they dont sign an experienced player to replace flamini, i think these claims will come back and bite him on the arse, with fans becoming fed up of his lack of ambition/financial prude, depending on how you see it

Offline MagicHat

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #157 on: August 26, 2008, 07:23:37 AM »
How are you guys low on finances? You get the biggest stadium revenue in the Premier League, have a wage bill that's miniscule compared to the other top teams I think and haven't bought many expensive players in...

the new stadium costs a lot of money and until the property deals (we already have most of them sold, obviously need them completed first before we get all the money) are completed, transfer budget is going to be limited. Yet we do have £25 million or so, why Arsene hasn't spent it... We need someone who can actually work on marketing in the board. Also Pr but that is less a financial side of things

We need a tall centreback since we are losing Senderos, a ball winner in the midfield is vital while a new keeper and a replacement for Hleb's brilliance wouldn't go down badly either. Unless we get the first two (or Silvestere turns into a fit player and a world class centreback) by the end of the week, I'm just settling for 4th this season :butt

Offline blert596

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #158 on: August 26, 2008, 10:05:42 AM »
I'm just settling for 4th this season :butt

I like the fact that you overestimate Arsenal this year!!
All the badge kissing in the world don't make up for the fact that they are, frankly, not Liverpool Football Club. It's not their fault. Its just how it is.

Offline RigBon1892

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #159 on: August 26, 2008, 11:44:51 AM »
I'm sure Gera will adjust to the Prem. Certainly an attractive team to watch, I do like Fulham and think Hodgson will be a big success there.

Oh cos a player who played in the Premiership for two seasons needs time to adjust ::)

I wouldnt mind Arsenal as much if Arsene wasnt their manager, dont get me wrong, hes done a fantastic job but he just whines and whines when things go wrong...
I'll always keep in my heart the good times I've had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool. I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager.

"Thank you so much once more and always remember: You'll never walk alone
YNWA Rafa.