Author Topic: Dani Pacheco  (Read 81560 times)

Offline Aido LFC

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #240 on: July 14, 2013, 04:34:15 PM »
Didn't really follow him whenever he went on loan the last few seasons, was he getting regular game time when he was out on loan?
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Offline hugoboss

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #241 on: July 14, 2013, 04:34:45 PM »
He went to a team at the bottom all season who got relegated. He did well there, but it wouldn't have been the right club for him. If he'd gone to Watford under Zola playing good football then he'd have flourished.

But you can't say we couldn't have sorted him a loan move to a decent Championship club when you look at some of the shite United get millions of pounds for off these clubs.
No decent team wanted him, if they'd come for him we'd have made it happen. You don't get tired of making excuses for Pacheco, players have to take responsibility for their futures and their careers when you get the chance show what you can do. He's been to Spain twice now on loan and hasn't made any meaningful contribution at either spell.

Ngoo went to hearts and played well then a better team came in for him. How many loans Pacheco been on now? If he was so good at Norwich another team in similar League or better would have asked to take him.
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Offline hugoboss

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #242 on: July 14, 2013, 04:38:09 PM »
Barca and Real's B teams are stocked full of excellent talent. Luis Alberto was playing in Segunda last season and wasn't even the best player in it.
Then why do you think he would be the best player in the Championship, when he can't even compare to his peers in Segunda
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Offline aggerdid

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #243 on: July 14, 2013, 04:38:34 PM »
I'd just like to know why, though. He seems like a Rodgers-type player and exactly the type of player who fits into his style, but he's barely had a chance.
who knows. but as everyones said hes had enough managers and only rafa rated him
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Offline GrkStav

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #244 on: July 14, 2013, 04:43:48 PM »
No decent team wanted him, if they'd come for him we'd have made it happen. You don't get tired of making excuses for Pacheco, players have to take responsibility for their futures and their careers when you get the chance show what you can do. He's been to Spain twice now on loan and hasn't made any meaningful contribution at either spell.

Ngoo went to hearts and played well then a better team came in for him. How many loans Pacheco been on now? If he was so good at Norwich another team in similar League or better would have asked to take him.

Why make inferences based on second- and third-hand information, as well as engage in massive post hoc 'explanations' when one can rely on one's own first-hand information?

Have you or have you not observed him on the pitch with LFC, at u21 and senior level, to know that he's at least as good/useful as others who've been given almost countless more chances to cement a place in our squad? If you have but disagree, then fair enough.

All this arguing backwards from what other clubs have or have not done re Pacheco is beginning to do my head in.
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Offline TheGOAT

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #245 on: July 14, 2013, 04:45:05 PM »
No decent team wanted him, if they'd come for him we'd have made it happen. You don't get tired of making excuses for Pacheco, players have to take responsibility for their futures and their careers when you get the chance show what you can do. He's been to Spain twice now on loan and hasn't made any meaningful contribution at either spell.

Ngoo went to hearts and played well then a better team came in for him. How many loans Pacheco been on now? If he was so good at Norwich another team in similar League or better would have asked to take him.

Yep. He's average. Hopefully he can make a decent career somewhere for himself and theres still plenty of time for him to improve yet but he's clearly not good enough for us despite the weird worship of him from loads on here.

Offline GrkStav

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #246 on: July 14, 2013, 04:48:36 PM »
who knows. but as everyones said hes had enough managers and only rafa rated him

Hodgson not rating him  is neither here nor there.

KD not rating him must be tempered by the fact that he 'rated' Downing enough to bring on the pitch after taking Carroll out, and 'rating' Carroll enough to agree to us paying 35 million quid for him.

BR, notwithstanding his other qualities which I appreciate and support, is a bit of a mystery when it comes to player selection and rotation. He obviously rated Shelvey enough to give him plenty of encouragement and playing time (his use of him as a false nine in the absence of Suarez was, for me, both telling and a total eff-up). He also managed to marginalize Skrtel, in favor of Carragher, and to continue using Johnson at RB even when he was mediocre at best, both going forward and defensively.
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Offline GrkStav

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #247 on: July 14, 2013, 04:52:41 PM »
Yep. He's average. Hopefully he can make a decent career somewhere for himself and there's still plenty of time for him to improve yet but he's clearly not good enough for us despite the weird worship of him from loads on here.

What "weird worship of him"?

And how is he "clearly not good enough for us"? More backwards reasoning, I reckon.

He's better than average. Of that there can be no doubt. He's not outstanding, not a world-class or even European top-class level. But he's skillful player, understands and can play the system BR prefers, he's a team-oriented player, he tracks back, etc. He's a good squad member to have/
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Offline Melbred

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #248 on: July 14, 2013, 05:02:59 PM »
I don't really know how anyone can have a conclusive opinion of him one way or another.

If he was good enough for us, you'd think he'd have shown a little more than just a few glimpses by now. He's 22 and it seems like he won't make it here. He's a decent enough player, but apparently just not for us.

It's not like Rodgers hasn't shown a tendency to give younger players a run out if they warrant it. I think I'll go with his judgement on this one.

Offline TheGOAT

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #249 on: July 14, 2013, 05:04:12 PM »
What "weird worship of him"?


The shit you're writing in here, putting down heroes like Kenny Dalglish to big up Danny Pacheco.

And how is he "clearly not good enough for us"?


He's shown nothing in his games for the first team. He wasn't deemed good enough to even start one league game for Vallecano. Do we need to go on? It's funny all the stick Joe Cole got, he wasn't good enough and that was obviously highlighted more because of his wage but he still contributed more than Pacheco in the Europa League who is apparently miles better yet stunk the joint out in both his performances. He's just an average player and fawning over one pass or one turn in 45 minutes of play wont change that.

He's a good squad member to have/

Great. Then we'll have no trouble selling him for a few mill like we did with Shelvey right? With all due respect if you can see how good this lad is I'm sure a few others manager could so the offers will roll in I'm sure. Lets see.

Offline Fromola

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #250 on: July 14, 2013, 05:22:18 PM »
Then why do you think he would be the best player in the Championship, when he can't even compare to his peers in Segunda

He'd comfortably be one of the best players in that league. People say why don't someone take him then? but maybe it's because of wages, or a lack of first team games, but they probably still should. If Spearing can get a move to Bolton, and be one of the better players in that league, then a far more talented player like Pacheco would star in it, as he did briefly at Norwich for a team who won the division.

Spain are unique in that Barca and Real's B teams play there and produce a very high standard of talent, as do many Spanish clubs. You only need to look at the under 21 Euros and the under 20 World Cup to see how the best of the Championship fare on the international stage compared to the likes of Deulofeu and Jese starring in that league last season.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 05:25:54 PM by Fromola »

Offline GrkStav

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #251 on: July 14, 2013, 07:50:30 PM »
[1] The shit you're writing in here, putting down heroes like Kenny Dalglish to big up Danny Pacheco.

[2] He's shown nothing in his games for the first team. He wasn't deemed good enough to even start one league game for Vallecano. Do we need to go on? It's funny all the stick Joe Cole got, he wasn't good enough and that was obviously highlighted more because of his wage but he still contributed more than Pacheco in the Europa League who is apparently miles better yet stunk the joint out in both his performances. He's just an average player and fawning over one pass or one turn in 45 minutes of play wont change that.

Great. Then we'll have no trouble selling him for a few mill like we did with Shelvey right? With all due respect if you can see how good this lad is I'm sure a few others manager could so the offers will roll in I'm sure. Lets see.

Re [1]: Give it a rest. Alternatively, bite me.

Re [2]: So, any idea what kind of system the Rayo Vallecano manager used while Pacheco was there? I do. Look into it. You'll see why he wasn't picked. The rest is just bullshit. He showed nothing, blah, blah, blah and Joe Cole was better than him. One of us is blind. It could be me, of course.

Your last point is well-taken and irrefragable. Touche'.
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Offline john_mac

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #252 on: July 14, 2013, 08:00:15 PM »
I'd just like to know why, though. He seems like a Rodgers-type player and exactly the type of player who fits into his style, but he's barely had a chance.

If a player that isn't good enough for just about anywhere he's ever been is a Rodger's type player.

I'd love him to be the player that most on here appear to believe he is, and I've seen an awful lot of him, I'd hazard more than anyone else on here, sadly he just is not that player.
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Offline john_mac

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #253 on: July 14, 2013, 08:06:29 PM »
Hodgson not rating him  is neither here nor there.

KD not rating him must be tempered by the fact that he 'rated' Downing enough to bring on the pitch after taking Carroll out, and 'rating' Carroll enough to agree to us paying 35 million quid for him.

BR, notwithstanding his other qualities which I appreciate and support, is a bit of a mystery when it comes to player selection and rotation. He obviously rated Shelvey enough to give him plenty of encouragement and playing time (his use of him as a false nine in the absence of Suarez was, for me, both telling and a total eff-up). He also managed to marginalize Skrtel, in favor of Carragher, and to continue using Johnson at RB even when he was mediocre at best, both going forward and defensively.

Are you really that much of an obnoxious prick?
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Offline Sir Afghan

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #254 on: July 14, 2013, 08:14:23 PM »
Are you really that much of an obnoxious prick?

It would appear so. Not sure what the fuss is in is here to be honest. Might turn out to be a decent player for someone but looks like it won't be for us, probably best he moves on and we get as much money (if any) as we can.

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #255 on: July 14, 2013, 08:22:05 PM »
It would appear so. Not sure what the fuss is in is here to be honest. Might turn out to be a decent player for someone but looks like it won't be for us, probably best he moves on and we get as much money (if any) as we can.

He might be, I hope he is. I just can't stand c*nts who think that they are some sort footy manager, have never been near L4 and think they can come onto Liverpool sites and leather Kenny Dalglish. I'd fucken love to lock them in the yankee for half an hour and see them saying the same.
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Offline hugoboss

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #256 on: July 14, 2013, 08:27:47 PM »
Why make inferences based on second- and third-hand information, as well as engage in massive post hoc 'explanations' when one can rely on one's own first-hand information?

Have you or have you not observed him on the pitch with LFC, at u21 and senior level, to know that he's at least as good/useful as others who've been given almost countless more chances to cement a place in our squad? If you have but disagree, then fair enough.

All this arguing backwards from what other clubs have or have not done re Pacheco is beginning to do my head in.
WTF are you talking about. He has played more games for other clubs than he has for us at senior level which is the only thing that counts at his age not what he has done at U21 level playing against kids he was older than.

I don't know if he is "useful" mainly because no coach has thought he was valuable enough to keep in their squad long term, what I do know is that he can show flashes of brilliance but that is clearly not enough to be a professional footballer at the top level.

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Offline hugoboss

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #257 on: July 14, 2013, 08:31:19 PM »
Hodgson not rating him  is neither here nor there.

KD not rating him must be tempered by the fact that he 'rated' Downing enough to bring on the pitch after taking Carroll out, and 'rating' Carroll enough to agree to us paying 35 million quid for him.

BR, notwithstanding his other qualities which I appreciate and support, is a bit of a mystery when it comes to player selection and rotation. He obviously rated Shelvey enough to give him plenty of encouragement and playing time (his use of him as a false nine in the absence of Suarez was, for me, both telling and a total eff-up). He also managed to marginalize Skrtel, in favor of Carragher, and to continue using Johnson at RB even when he was mediocre at best, both going forward and defensively.
You have the sound of a man who knows nothing. The entire universe has conspired to deny Pacheco his chance in the spot light and even have the audacity to place blame on the Liverpool managers for not rating a player who has done nothing of note
Prandelli: "I prefer to concede a goal on the counter-attack rather than sit, wait and suffer for 20 minutes."

Offline hugoboss

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #258 on: July 14, 2013, 08:36:54 PM »
He'd comfortably be one of the best players in that league. People say why don't someone take him then? but maybe it's because of wages, or a lack of first team games, but they probably still should. If Spearing can get a move to Bolton, and be one of the better players in that league, then a far more talented player like Pacheco would star in it, as he did briefly at Norwich for a team who won the division.

More excuses, if he was good enough you'd at be aware a team was interested in him and then it would be down to the club to work out a deal (just like Aquilani). It's funny you think he would be the best player in the Championship when he has already been there an no teams came back for him, plus Ngoo and Adrojan have been taken on loan don't you think those scouts saw Pacheco tearing up the U21 league while scouting Ngoo and Adrojan
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Offline leivapool

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #259 on: July 14, 2013, 08:37:15 PM »
My main observation regarding Pacheco is that he hasn't looked out of place for us during the limited amount of time he has played under Rodgers,   and he didn't yesterday.  Compare that to Adam or Carroll say who always looked out of place under Rodgers, regardless of their individual qualities.

Rossiter absolutely bossed it tonight. Really believe he'll end up playing more games this season than Lucas.


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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #260 on: July 14, 2013, 08:38:29 PM »
This, is, his, year! I can feel it. You watch, last year mightn’t of happened and we/he had a tough year before that and a slight false dawn before then, but this year - this year, he's gonna do it man, I can feel it in my Asspiss.


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Offline LiverpoolForever

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #261 on: July 14, 2013, 08:40:20 PM »
If it was one manager who didn't fancy him then you might feel he would still have a chance , but all the managers who he has played under haven't really given him a run of games..

That should tell people something really.

Offline hugoboss

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #262 on: July 14, 2013, 08:44:41 PM »
If it was one manager who didn't fancy him then you might feel he would still have a chance , but all the managers who he has played under haven't really given him a run of games..

That should tell people something really.
Unfortunately its not what they want to hear, so blame everyone who hasn't given Pacheco a free pass because he is so skillful. I like the lad but like someone else said earlier why is he still here when its clear he has no future. He should be on his agents as to find him a permanent move to any league for whatever they're offering.

I respect players like Ince who understand that they need to be good players first before they can be liverpool players
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Offline Fordy

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #263 on: July 14, 2013, 08:45:14 PM »
Hodgson not rating him  is neither here nor there.

KD not rating him must be tempered by the fact that he 'rated' Downing enough to bring on the pitch after taking Carroll out, and 'rating' Carroll enough to agree to us paying 35 million quid for him.

BR, notwithstanding his other qualities which I appreciate and support, is a bit of a mystery when it comes to player selection and rotation. He obviously rated Shelvey enough to give him plenty of encouragement and playing time (his use of him as a false nine in the absence of Suarez was, for me, both telling and a total eff-up). He also managed to marginalize Skrtel, in favor of Carragher, and to continue using Johnson at RB even when he was mediocre at best, both going forward and defensively.

So you're want to hammer Kenny and our current manager!

Why don't you become manager?

How you don't get a warning from mods amazes me at times. Credit to you for getting away with it mate

Offline Juan Loco

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #264 on: July 14, 2013, 08:48:05 PM »
This again.
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Offline Fromola

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #265 on: July 14, 2013, 08:48:09 PM »
who knows. but as everyones said hes had enough managers and only rafa rated him

That means little. Hodgson likes formulaic, two banks of four, defensive-minded zombies. Dalglish only really wanted British players. This over the period where we 'needed to be more English'. Pacheco was a victim of that. I thought he'd have got his opportunity last season.

Let's face it he's been overlooked for inferior players. He'd have done a better job than Charlie Adam in 11/12. A better job than Jovanavic or Ngog in 10/11. A better job than Shelvey last season.

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #266 on: July 14, 2013, 08:52:06 PM »
That seems like a bit of a push for a player who couldn't actually get ahead of an in-form Simeon Jackson.
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Offline Fordy

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #267 on: July 14, 2013, 08:53:19 PM »
That seems like a bit of a push for a player who couldn't actually get ahead of an in-form Simeon Jackson.

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Offline Jehst1979

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #268 on: July 14, 2013, 08:53:35 PM »
What sort of contract does he have, as in how many years left, surely we can just release him to get rid of him? he can't of signed a new contract in the past 3 years has he? He's Championship level at best, good luck to the lad but he's no where near decent enough.

Offline john_mac

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #269 on: July 14, 2013, 08:53:36 PM »
Let's face it he's been overlooked for inferior players. He'd have done a better job than Charlie Adam in 11/12. A better job than Jovanavic or Ngog in 10/11. A better job than Shelvey last season.

But, sadly, couldn't even do a better job than Grant Holt of Rochdale fame. Says it all really
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Offline Mr_Morosoph

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #270 on: July 14, 2013, 09:08:15 PM »
Mascherano couldn't even do a better job than Hayden Mullins. Say it all really.
"I was pleased also with Peter Crouch. We have been talking to him, before and after his nose operation, to show more confidence with his heading.
 
"Now it seems to have worked. Lets say that if he has a few games without scoring again, maybe we should arrange to break his nose again."

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Offline Fromola

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #271 on: July 14, 2013, 09:08:39 PM »
But, sadly, couldn't even do a better job than Grant Holt of Rochdale fame. Says it all really

He made a few starts at Norwich towards the end of their promotion season and made a good impact. Lambert called his debut the best debut he's ever seen.

Offline hugoboss

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #272 on: July 14, 2013, 09:11:19 PM »
He made a few starts at Norwich towards the end of their promotion season and made a good impact. Lambert called his debut the best debut he's ever seen.
but choose not to keep him, actions speak louder than words
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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #273 on: July 14, 2013, 09:16:21 PM »
This again.
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Offline bigbear

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #274 on: July 14, 2013, 09:16:33 PM »
Pacheco is a bit of a nearly player, you keep thinking he's going to do something good and it keeps nearly coming off. He gets into positions from the edge of the box but doesn't score, he sees nice passes but doesn't quite pull them off where someone like Coutinho will find the bottom corner or the perfect pass.

If he was a full back it wouldn't be such an issue but to play in such a key position there has to be end product. Shame but there it is for me.

Offline john_mac

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #275 on: July 14, 2013, 09:20:49 PM »
He made a few starts at Norwich towards the end of their promotion season and made a good impact. Lambert called his debut the best debut he's ever seen.

Then chose not to sign him when available for buttons & two bob wages and went to the Premier League with Holt instead..... erm says a lot more than a throwaway statement after an important win
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Offline Draex

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #276 on: July 14, 2013, 09:24:57 PM »
Then chose not to sign him when available for buttons & two bob wages and went to the Premier League with Holt instead..... erm says a lot more than a throwaway statement after an important win

Erm what? They wanted to buy him and it was rejected.

Offline john_mac

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #277 on: July 14, 2013, 09:29:11 PM »
Erm what? They wanted to buy him and it was rejected.

erm what? I don't think so
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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #278 on: July 15, 2013, 08:11:41 AM »
He made a few starts at Norwich towards the end of their promotion season and made a good impact. Lambert called his debut the best debut he's ever seen.
And yet Jay Spearing went to Bolton on loan last season, won their player of the year award, but you cannot wait to kick him out of the club.
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Offline Senior Cutinhio

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Re: Dani Pacheco...
« Reply #279 on: July 15, 2013, 08:47:15 AM »
So you're want to hammer Kenny and our current manager!

Why don't you become manager?

How you don't get a warning from mods amazes me at times. Credit to you for getting away with it mate

Criticism is a hard pill to swallow, doesnt mean you go about ganging on someone for it. Every time Kenny gets mentioned - people flock in masses to lynch him (offcourse they cant its internet) but this ban wagon starts rolling just for not liking once opinion