Topic: The Impossible Job

[RJH]

Good article.

We've got stuck in a loop at the moment. We're short of confidence so we play badly. We play badly, and this affects our confidence. We need one really good performance to snap us out of it. I'm hoping that against Chelsea we'll relly raise our game, and start getting our season back on track.
City, Everton and Villa have an advantage in that they're doing better than many expected, so they can play without pressure. But I feel that, generally speaking, those teams are playing about as well as they're going to, while Liverpool are very much underachieving.
 We've fallen too far behind to catch the top three - we'd have to be averaging almost a point more per game just to catch Chelsea. But I'm confident we can take 4th. We're also still in the FA cup, with a fairly easy tie, and know that one of Arsenal/Man U are going to go out. And we've shown over the past three seasons that shouldn't be scared of anyone in Europe.
 It has not been the best of seasons, but there's a good chance of it finishing on a (slightly) bright note. I'll admit there 's a chance it won't, but quite frankly it's only February, and I'm not going to start giving up hope just yet.

And it's nice to see people having a polite and reasonable debate about things, without falling into the abuse matches that have been happening on other threads.

[djork]

great article PT
why doesnt anyone make a big point of the injuries
its all about rotation and dissent in the ranks
how the hell does anyone know how the players feel
surely u cant trust printed text
look at chelsea last year they had terry missing and it
made a big difference and thats just one player
agger is a big loss and so is alonso, pennant missing changes
alot more than u think.its never a simple swap all players have different
abilities and offer different options.take this into account and
rafa's game plan or plans get very limited.
anyways my point is simple-i dont think we would be in this mess
if we hadnt sustained the injuries and we didnt expect to win it this year
i wouldnt expect any manager to be able to rebuild a squad in 4 years
that would be able to complete a season almost unbeaten.
given rafa's budget he has to pull it off the slow and hard way
and thats praying that his youngsters(cheaper buys) turn out to be top buys
and no one can predict that.this is a long term plan not a quick fix

[Rafas legends]

excellent article and the only thing that you failed to include has been the loss of agger

agreed

[Vulmea]

Think the article is excellent at spelling out what our expactations should currently  be.

However it should also be possible in any given season with the run of the ball and some extra confidence to over come the odds and take the title. The very act of succeeeding would kick us on an extra notch but it will require luck and the belief that such luck creates to over come the advantages of the other teams.

Think what is often missed  this season is the slow realisation for the players that the title was beyond them this season - think as that became clear their confidence and belief in Benitez disapeared  - I dont think its coincidence that our worst perfromances came around the period that the dispointment of no league title this season was finally made clear. The players and the media built us up this year which is why we have come crashing down.

You can argue that Rafa was unsettled by Hicks, that this translated to results but against Chelsea we outplayed them, same with City, even against Reading we should have been 2- 0 up before they scored. The performances may not have been exiting but they were enough to win and if wins had been achieved confidence and belief would have been that much higher and stood is good stead as the season progressed.

With Kuyt I believe Rafa is just doing exactly as he did with Crouch - he kept playing the big man until he scored - he did exactly the same with Morientes - he shows faith in his players when they need it, he backs his own judgement  - Kuyt is getting the support he needs if he is to turn around his form - He is unquestionably a better player than he is currently showing.

In terms of judgements on players - Hleb and Adebayor were laughing stocks at Arsenal last year - some players need time - anybody making judgements on players in the current set up is an opinionated fool.

I don't think its an impossible job but its not one that can be done without support and that is something which needs to be factored in by the manager, a number 2 to help him with the players is essential, he appears lacking in that respect. He also needs better PR both to the fans and the media - many of his ideas are sound but just not explained or rather not understood.

At the moment he's trying to do it all and failing, he needs help but he looks like the last person who recognises it.

 

[redscotch]

Good article that.

[Tactically Naive]

There are 96 points to play for if we exclude the big 3 home and away.

[Emo Phillips]

There are 96 points to play for if we exclude the big 3 home and away.

Are you joking? There are 42 points left to play for, which makes 84 the max.

[Soggy sausage rolls]

Superb article. I agree with everything other than the fact that Manchester United's point of difference is their manager's experience. They and Chelsea share a point of difference over the rest of the league (and Europe) since 2000 (MU) and 2004 (Chelsea) - an unlimited pile of money spent / to spend in order to buy success for their respective organisations (sorry, football clubs). 

[vicgill]

Great article Paul, really enjoyed reading that

[Libero]

I'm sorry but compared to Everton, Villa and Man City over those 4 years we have. If you'd said at the start of Benitez's reign that 4 years down the line we'd still be scrapping it out with Everton for the last Champions League spot I doubt anyone would have found that acceptable.

Well, that's a good point.  But if you ask Arsenal Fans at the start of last season (some 2 years after they won the PREMIERSHIP) that they'd be fighting it out with Spurs till the last day of the season for FOURTH place, then I doubt that they'd find that acceptable too.

Truth is, there's no right or wrong, everyone is responsible, and yes I agree that players should be picked on form, and some players didn't work out and others did.  Football isn't a precise science.

[Libero]

Great article Paul, really enjoyed reading that

In my haste, I forgot to echo these thoughts...

What a legend Paul is.

[fudge]

Hard to see how you can disagree with any of that.

And that just makes it all the more depressing, still on the plus side we're definitely going to win in Moscow

[Emo Phillips]

Well, that's a good point.  But if you ask Arsenal Fans at the start of last season (some 2 years after they won the Premier League) that they'd be fighting it out with Spurs till the last day of the season for FOURTH place, then I doubt that they'd find that acceptable too.

Truth is, there's no right or wrong, everyone is responsible, and yes I agree that players should be picked on form, and some players didn't work out and others did.  Football isn't a precise science.

Well said. The Arsenal transformation is the perfect example of how quickly your fortunes can turn, and how supposedly average players can suddenly look the best around.

[walshys_mullet]

Well said. The Arsenal transformation is the perfect example of how quickly your fortunes can turn, and how supposedly average players can suddenly look the best around.

Except your fortunes can only turn when you are consistently performing.

Arsenals trouble last year was that they overplayed in situations - however the basis in pass and move has already been rooted there. Whats our basis? Does anybody know? One week we can be sublime, the next week disjointed, the week after unlucky, the week after below par. etc etc.

We dont play very well week to week.

[Emo Phillips]

Except your fortunes can only turn when you are consistently performing.

Arsenals trouble last year was that they overplayed in situations - however the basis in pass and move has already been rooted there. Whats our basis? Does anybody know? One week we can be sublime, the next week disjointed, the week after unlucky, the week after below par. etc etc.

We dont play very well week to week.

That's a very, very simplistic view of Arsenal's season. I don't recall too many people saying they were virtually the finished deal, just overplaying.

Like us this year, they could be sparkling some weeks, woeful the next. Also, their away record was pretty poor as they were limp on the road. There is NO WAY Arsenal were playing well week to week last season; far from it.

[walshys_mullet]

That's a very, very simplistic view of Arsenal's season. I don't recall too many people saying they were virtually the finished deal, just overplaying.

Like us this year, they could be sparkling some weeks, woeful the next. Also, their away record was pretty poor as they were limp on the road. There is NO WAY Arsenal were playing well week to week last season; far from it.

Nah they wernt that bad. They have always been a better footballing side. you can always see what Wengers trying to do, even if it doesnt work all the time.

Rafa? Does anybody know what direction he's going in? I know the Valencia template gets mentioned but i dont see much evidence in that.

[lookieman]

Nah they wernt that bad. They have always been a better footballing side. you can always see what Wengers trying to do, even if it doesnt work all the time.

Rafa? Does anybody know what direction he's going in? I know the Valencia template gets mentioned but i dont see much evidence in that.

On the contrary, you see lots of similarities with it.

Intelligent Ball playing centre-back. Pellegrino and Ayala were not hoofers, neither had plenty of pace to burn but  both were intelligent.

Full-backs who do not necessarily have to run up and down the flanks the whole 90 min, and provide solidity to the backline.

2 defensive midfielders in Baraja and Albelda. A serviceable winger with Rufete and a hell of a player with Vicente.

The key here is Aimar. Even in Valencia, Rafa does not play his top 2 strikers together but will always be a combination of a support striker and a target man, Aimar/Illie ( though I recall he was not really that good) and Carew/Salva and then Aimar and Mista/Salva.

His philosophy is to control posession while pressuring and containing when losing posession.

If you look at the above which I try and cull as best as I can from the 2001/2002 and 2002/03 season, imho it is pretty clear that there are similarities. I admit I do not follow all the Valencia games at that point in time but from what I did watch, while it was not free flowing, one touch total football, it was effective and it was consistently good.

We do have good defenders in Hyypia, Carra, Agger and Skrtel. We don't have the best fullbacks but they are defensively solid. We have the best midfield pairings from Alonso, Gerrard, Lucas and Masch. In my mind, Rafa hoped that Kewell would be his Vicente and has given him every chance to get his form back while Pennant is our Rufete, a serviceable and alright right-midfield. Torres is our
target man but unlike Valencia we do not have a second striker. We do not have an Angulo or an Aimar or even Ilie. In fact the Liverpool team we have is better in quality than what Rafa had in Spain. We have Benni and Babel as well as Crouch and Kuyt was ok in his first season.

What the team needs is to buy into Rafa's philosophy. We are nearly there, the team needs to build that mental edge and they need belief. It will help if all the bollocks with the uncertainties surrounding the club stop and everyone focuses on building a winning team.

[Flight]

Original Article

© Paul Tomkins 2008

www.paultomkins.com

Fantastic stuff.


/applaud

[Flight]

Why do i like to be the centre of attraction? Ive been shot down in the past, called every name under the sun and sent insulting pm's and been banned, all because i just based my comments on, not on adoring adulation, but on what i could see going on the pitch.

It doesnt take a genius to see does it? Shed the adoration and you might just see it. Rafas a nice dignified feller but a feller with handicaps to his philosophy domestically i may add - nowt wrong with him in europe where he is by far more comfortable with the state of play.

i) Rafas rebuilt the club on a shoestring budget;

ii) he has consistently missed out on first choice targets -  imagine the difference this season if we had Alves, Vidic, Simao, Malouda and Heinze, to name but five;

iii) we had a good start to the season domestically, totally ruined by Hicks spending the last few months destroying Rafa. Fergusons Manc side went to pieces playing abominable football, the seaon he was supposed to be leaving them. he was far less undermined than Rafa has been.

The owner spends months destroying our manager - how can anyone be surprised if we go to pieces on the pitch ?



My biggest disappointment is Stevie hasn't come out in support of Rafa. If he was the captain we need he would show some spine, commit himself fully to the manager, and throw some bollockings around on the pitch, instead of acting like a Jessie, waiting for a comforting arm around his shoulder.

[Emo Phillips]

ii) he has consistently missed out on first choice targets -  imagine the difference this season if we had Alves, Vidic, Simao, Malouda and Heinze, to name but five;

It's an interesting point. If Rafa had been given Mourinho's spending power, he could easily have those players, and yet Mourinho is seen as some kind of genius.

A right side of Alves at right-back and Simao at right wing would have possibly been one to marvel at, and if Rafa could have stretched to pay any price like Mourinho could, he'd have had a totally different side right now. 

Ferguson missed out on targets at times, too, but he could also go straight back and pay £20m or £30m on someone else. Rafa's only spent in that price bracket once, and in Torres he got a player who can make a difference over the next few years.

[walshys_mullet]

It's an interesting point. If Rafa had been given Mourinho's spending power, he could easily have those players, and yet Mourinho is seen as some kind of genius.

A right side of Alves at right-back and Simao at right wing would have possibly been one to marvel at, and if Rafa could have stretched to pay any price like Mourinho could, he'd have had a totally different side right now. 

Ferguson missed out on targets at times, too, but he could also go straight back and pay £20m or £30m on someone else. Rafa's only spent in that price bracket once, and in Torres he got a player who can make a difference over the next few years.

so is that all it takes to be a world class manager these days? an endless bank account?

[djork]

u cant buy teamwork or success
just look at shevchenko and tottenham

[cornelius]

Well, that's a good point.  But if you ask Arsenal Fans at the start of last season (some 2 years after they won the Premier League) that they'd be fighting it out with Spurs till the last day of the season for FOURTH place, then I doubt that they'd find that acceptable too.

Arsenal are not really comparable with my point because like you say they had won the league two years before. If we'd won the league two years ago or even four years ago then I could accept what you are saying but the fact is in the premier league we've made miniscule progress. Arsenal can put their two seasons in 4th place down to having a couple of off seasons and going through a period of transition. What excuse can we offer up for still being at the stage where we are worrying about missing out on the Champions League?

Well said. The Arsenal transformation is the perfect example of how quickly your fortunes can turn, and how supposedly average players can suddenly look the best around.

Trouble is we've been waiting 18 years for ours to turn and at the moment there are no signs they're about to now.

His philosophy is to control posession while pressuring and containing when losing posession.

If you look at the above which I try and cull as best as I can from the 2001/2002 and 2002/03 season, imho it is pretty clear that there are similarities. I admit I do not follow all the Valencia games at that point in time but from what I did watch, while it was not free flowing, one touch total football, it was effective and it was consistently good.


What the team needs is to buy into Rafa's philosophy. We are nearly there, the team needs to build that mental edge and they need belief. It will help if all the bollocks with the uncertainties surrounding the club stop and everyone focuses on building a winning team.

A while back I believed it would happen but I fear his philosophy just won't work in England. In Europe caution is exercised more than here, even by attacking teams like Barca and Real. But look at Chelsea, United and Arsenal - are any of those teams frightened to concede a goal? No. They always look like they believe they will score the goals that will win them the match and 9 times out of 10 they do. We, on the other hand, implode if an opponent has the cheek or temerity to score a goal against us. More often than not, conceding a goal completely ruins our gameplan and totally takes the wind out of our sails. We go into blind panic about it sometimes because we are so obsessed with keeping clean sheets.

Our way of playing is perfectly suited to the Champions League but the bottom line is this - we will not win the Premier League until we have a more positive approach. I just don't know how anyone can picture us winning the league playing the way we do. I'd dearly love to be proved wrong.

[mercury]

Except your fortunes can only turn when you are consistently performing.

Arsenals trouble last year was that they overplayed in situations - however the basis in pass and move has already been rooted there. Whats our basis? Does anybody know? One week we can be sublime, the next week disjointed, the week after unlucky, the week after below par. etc etc.

We dont play very well week to week.

Until the fiasco unfolded, we had a lot of very good games and a handful of atrocious ones, notably in CL.  To imply we have been bad all season long is wrong.

There was real progress on the pitch - the number of teams being roasted by us this season testified that.  We now have lost confidence and this loss isn't just due to what happens on the pitch, which is the sad part really.

[Emo Phillips]

so is that all it takes to be a world class manager these days? an endless bank account?

Unless you have time to bring your young players through, who are likely to be cheaper if they're found early enough, then these days, yes.

Arsene Wenger has had time to bring through the likes of Fabregas, while Ferguson and Mourinho won the league with loads of £20m-£30m players.