Author Topic: Youth and Under 23 Thread  (Read 9862503 times)

Offline KingKolo

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98920 on: February 5, 2019, 12:11:24 AM »
I don't know anyone who assumes Woodburn is destined for success at Liverpool. His lack of pace will be a problem for the forward positions so I think he will end up central but it hasn't really happened for him so far. He is still very young though.

Yeah, if it's going to happen for him at Liverpool, it'll surely be in midfield.

Offline dakid

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98921 on: February 6, 2019, 10:31:38 AM »

Offline KingKolo

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98922 on: February 6, 2019, 10:37:30 AM »
Surely the end of his Liverpool career if this happens.
 https://www.thisisanfield.com/2019/02/latest-transfer-move-suggests-liverpool-are-giving-up-on-young-midfielder/
Good luck to the lad. Must've been a nightmare few years.

Online Boaty McBoatface

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98923 on: February 6, 2019, 03:36:43 PM »
Although it's turned out that he's likely not good enough for us now, it's a shame we haven't been able to train him in-house. Because he does have talent.

Offline dakid

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98924 on: February 6, 2019, 05:04:26 PM »
Brewster ruled out for the rest of the season after a setback that required additional knee surgery. That is an awful long time out injured. His first knee surgery was only meant to keep him out until last pre season.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6607683/Jurgen-Klopp-reveals-Liverpool-youngster-Rhian-Brewster-rest-season.html
And now Brewster says he is fit. You have got to wonder what is going on with out medical department. From the initial diagnosis of this injury. To TAA playing vs Brighton being ruled out for a month then being declared available if needed by klopp for Palace then rules out again, the Gomez fiasco to Brewster being ruled out for the season and suddenly fit again.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rhian-brewster-amazing-liverpool-prospect-15787368

Online DelTrotter

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98925 on: February 6, 2019, 05:08:07 PM »
While we are very, very weird regarding injuries I dont think there's much contradiction on the Brewster stuff. I just took him to mean he's fit as in healthy so is doing work. Klopp did say he's doing some work, running etc and Brewster said "they can’t wait for me to be back in training and hopefully make my debut this year, if not next.” which pretty much matches what Jurgen said.

Online FlashGordon

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98926 on: February 6, 2019, 06:07:03 PM »
And now Brewster says he is fit. You have got to wonder what is going on with out medical department. From the initial diagnosis of this injury. To TAA playing vs Brighton being ruled out for a month then being declared available if needed by klopp for Palace then rules out again, the Gomez fiasco to Brewster being ruled out for the season and suddenly fit again.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rhian-brewster-amazing-liverpool-prospect-15787368

How is Gomez a fiasco for fuck sake. We didn't think he needed surgery, something happened in his recovery that led to a need for surgery. Brewster was never ruled out for the season, it's however you want to read the comments that were made that would lead you to that conclusion.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline istvan kozma

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98927 on: February 6, 2019, 06:33:44 PM »
And now Brewster says he is fit. You have got to wonder what is going on with out medical department. From the initial diagnosis of this injury. To TAA playing vs Brighton being ruled out for a month then being declared available if needed by klopp for Palace then rules out again, the Gomez fiasco to Brewster being ruled out for the season and suddenly fit again.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rhian-brewster-amazing-liverpool-prospect-15787368
Lol totally ignorant and clueless from start to finish, surely you're not being serious?

Offline dakid

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98928 on: February 6, 2019, 06:44:26 PM »
While we are very, very weird regarding injuries I dont think there's much contradiction on the Brewster stuff. I just took him to mean he's fit as in healthy so is doing work. Klopp did say he's doing some work, running etc and Brewster said "they can’t wait for me to be back in training and hopefully make my debut this year, if not next.” which pretty much matches what Jurgen said.
I took that as comments players were previously making to him when he was injured and these as to what's happening now “I’m finally back fit and doing what I love and pushing to get back in the team."

Offline dakid

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98929 on: February 6, 2019, 06:44:58 PM »
How is Gomez a fiasco for fuck sake. We didn't think he needed surgery, something happened in his recovery that led to a need for surgery. Brewster was never ruled out for the season, it's however you want to read the comments that were made that would lead you to that conclusion.
Jurgen Klopps exact quote was "He's in a good way but it will take time. But it's no problem, he has the time. We don't have to think about him before the pre-season, I would say."

Online FlashGordon

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98930 on: February 6, 2019, 06:49:29 PM »
Jurgen Klopps exact quote was "He's in a good way but it will take time. But it's no problem, he has the time. We don't have to think about him before the pre-season, I would say."

Doesn't say he's not playing any football this season though, it's not a clear ruling him out for the rest of the season.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline KingKolo

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98931 on: February 6, 2019, 06:59:44 PM »
And now Brewster says he is fit. You have got to wonder what is going on with out medical department. From the initial diagnosis of this injury. To TAA playing vs Brighton being ruled out for a month then being declared available if needed by klopp for Palace then rules out again, the Gomez fiasco to Brewster being ruled out for the season and suddenly fit again.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rhian-brewster-amazing-liverpool-prospect-15787368

Trent playing the full game against Brighton was fucking stupid. Couldn't believe it at the time, was so obvious he was carrying an issue.

Gomez... fuck knows what's going on there. Nothing concrete to criticise the medical department about there.

I know what you mean with Brewster's comments. They do suggest he's essentially fit again, which goes against what Klopp said. Then again, he'll probably need a good number of games at U23 level to regain match sharpness, which may well mean he's not an option for Klopp to consider until pre-season. So he might've just been appropriately cautious with his prediction, especially given the player's age.

You could throw in Wijnaldum. Sore knee, then plays a game, then has a sore knee again... not ideal.

All in all though mate, it's not an exact science. These things happen.

Offline farawayred

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98932 on: February 6, 2019, 07:35:33 PM »
Trent playing the full game against Brighton was fucking stupid. Couldn't believe it at the time, was so obvious he was carrying an issue.

Gomez... fuck knows what's going on there. Nothing concrete to criticise the medical department about there.

I know what you mean with Brewster's comments. They do suggest he's essentially fit again, which goes against what Klopp said. Then again, he'll probably need a good number of games at U23 level to regain match sharpness, which may well mean he's not an option for Klopp to consider until pre-season. So he might've just been appropriately cautious with his prediction, especially given the player's age.

You could throw in Wijnaldum. Sore knee, then plays a game, then has a sore knee again... not ideal.

All in all though mate, it's not an exact science. These things happen.
And you know the bit in bold, because?...

His troubled period was right at the start of the game. He recovered from that and seemed fine apparently to the Liverpool doctors. His injury was already in the making in the first few minutes. Whether he finished the game or not does not appear to had any effect on the aggravation.
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Offline KingKolo

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98933 on: February 6, 2019, 07:39:14 PM »
And you know the bit in bold, because?...

His troubled period was right at the start of the game. He recovered from that and seemed fine apparently to the Liverpool doctors. His injury was already in the making in the first few minutes. Whether he finished the game or not does not appear to had any effect on the aggravation.
Haha, I think you should be answering how you know the bit in bold.

Usually playing on an injury aggravates it.

Offline farawayred

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98934 on: February 6, 2019, 07:51:52 PM »
Haha, I think you should be answering how you know the bit in bold.

Usually playing on an injury aggravates it.
Well, that's what was in the reports. yes, playing on an injury aggravates it, but I give the medical personnel on the bench more credit to know what they are doing.
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Online BrandoLFC

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98935 on: February 6, 2019, 11:09:12 PM »
TAA picked up a knock in the warm up right before kick off and said he could still play.  Where they supposed to wheel him in to the not available MRI machine in those few minutes?  What other options were there at that point?  It's not like he was injured the whole week and we started him when he said he couldn't play.  There's plenty of medical things to be concerned about, mainly concussions, but this one for TAA seems a pretty petty thing to whine about.

Offline dazzamcc

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98936 on: February 7, 2019, 01:15:28 PM »
Bright Amoateng is on trial at Bury at the moment.

https://football-wonderkids.co.uk/player/bright-amoateng

Online FlashGordon

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98937 on: February 7, 2019, 01:27:48 PM »
Dal Varesanovic and Eddie Tagseth lads, where have they disappeared to?
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline KingKolo

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98938 on: February 7, 2019, 05:21:16 PM »
TAA picked up a knock in the warm up right before kick off and said he could still play.  Where they supposed to wheel him in to the not available MRI machine in those few minutes?  What other options were there at that point?  It's not like he was injured the whole week and we started him when he said he couldn't play.  There's plenty of medical things to be concerned about, mainly concussions, but this one for TAA seems a pretty petty thing to whine about.
You don't need an MRI machine. He was clearly injured.

Anyway, it's done. No point 'whining'.

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98939 on: February 7, 2019, 07:42:52 PM »
Dal Varesanovic and Eddie Tagseth lads, where have they disappeared to?
Dal hasnt played a game for us, imagine we're having issue with a work permit or hoping he doesnt catch the attention of fifa. Tagseth is injured again i believe.


Online FlashGordon

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98940 on: February 7, 2019, 08:18:44 PM »
Dal hasnt played a game for us, imagine we're having issue with a work permit or hoping he doesnt catch the attention of fifa. Tagseth is injured again i believe.

Hadn't realised that, how long ago did we sign him?
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98941 on: February 7, 2019, 08:32:47 PM »
He's been around the club since he was like 12, would only have been allowed to sign after turning 16. Dont think he had the right clearence though as he didnt appear in the site until much later from what i remember, which is what they usually wait for. But yeah no idea really whats happening. Its a bit like when we had Hodzic(?) But he didnt even make the academy page on the site.

Online FlashGordon

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98942 on: February 7, 2019, 08:34:37 PM »
Yeah very strange one indeed. Maybe he's just not any good or hasn't developed enough physically.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline lamonti

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98943 on: February 8, 2019, 08:48:45 AM »
Signing players with absolutely no chance of getting a work permit like Allan and that Colombian fella is an absolute waste of everyone's time.

Offline lamonti

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98944 on: February 8, 2019, 08:54:36 AM »
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/feb/07/bundesliga-michael-zorc-borussia-dortmund-jadon-sancho

Feels pertinent to the discussion regarding English academies and lack of chances for players a few pages back.

Taking Sancho and City's academy obviously doesn't paint the full picture, but it's clear that since Borrell and latterly Inglethorpe, the quality of player we have start producing has risen, even if the opportunities for them in their own club are getting fewer and fewer.

Quote from: Michael Zorc
"But, in the meantime we have the feeling that, yes, the education and development of youth players in the English academies is quite good, to be honest. The teams don’t only spend much money on transfers or salaries but also on infrastructure. When you see these youth academies – for example Man City – you can’t compare it with the German standard. It’s much higher, much higher.”

Offline HopefulRed

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98945 on: February 8, 2019, 02:58:06 PM »
Interesting that our U23s playing v Burnley right now in the Premier League 2 Cup are facing Anthony Glennon (Bunley’s captain) and Marley Blair, both once of Lfc academy although Marley wasn’t with us for long.  No updates anywhere that I can see

Offline HopefulRed

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98946 on: February 8, 2019, 03:59:41 PM »
Interesting that our U23s playing v Burnley right now in the Premier League 2 Cup are facing Anthony Glennon (Bunley’s captain) and Marley Blair, both once of Lfc academy although Marley wasn’t with us for long.  No updates anywhere that I can see

Ended 0-0 which doesn’t help us as we remain on the bottom our our table. 

Offline KingKolo

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98947 on: February 8, 2019, 05:30:59 PM »
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/feb/07/bundesliga-michael-zorc-borussia-dortmund-jadon-sancho

Feels pertinent to the discussion regarding English academies and lack of chances for players a few pages back.

Taking Sancho and City's academy obviously doesn't paint the full picture, but it's clear that since Borrell and latterly Inglethorpe, the quality of player we have start producing has risen, even if the opportunities for them in their own club are getting fewer and fewer.

I think this is the general issue. The standard of coaching at youth level has been improving, especially with regard to the technical aspects of the game. The problem is, many of these young lads are getting to the age of 18/19 and then finding no place in the first team squad. From there, most of them tend to stagnate at a crucial stage in their development.

I think the more we see the likes of Sancho, Lookman and so on getting first team football in the Bundesliga, the better it will be for the England team.

But personally I couldn't give a fuck about the England team, I care about the Liverpool team. Is there a way to make sure that more youngsters make it through into the Liverpool first team? For me, it's to take the gamble and throw them in.

Offline blacksun

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98948 on: February 8, 2019, 06:58:45 PM »
I think this is the general issue. The standard of coaching at youth level has been improving, especially with regard to the technical aspects of the game. The problem is, many of these young lads are getting to the age of 18/19 and then finding no place in the first team squad. From there, most of them tend to stagnate at a crucial stage in their development.

I think the more we see the likes of Sancho, Lookman and so on getting first team football in the Bundesliga, the better it will be for the England team.

But personally I couldn't give a fuck about the England team, I care about the Liverpool team. Is there a way to make sure that more youngsters make it through into the Liverpool first team? For me, it's to take the gamble and throw them in.

I have always wondered why the FA don't change the rules so you can have any number of say U21 academy players on the bench in PL games. They changed it from five to seven subs thinking that would help but it just meant clubs could put more of the squad players on the bench but if you could name lets say 1 GK and 5 outfield subs and then any number of the U21 academy players (ie players who had spent 2 years in our youth system) on the bench you may find games where top teams are 3/4/5 goals up and coaches like Klopp might throw a Camacho or Wilson on for 10 or 15 mins knowing there's almost no risk

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98949 on: February 8, 2019, 07:11:09 PM »
I have always wondered why the FA don't change the rules so you can have any number of say U21 academy players on the bench in PL games. They changed it from five to seven subs thinking that would help but it just meant clubs could put more of the squad players on the bench but if you could name lets say 1 GK and 5 outfield subs and then any number of the U21 academy players (ie players who had spent 2 years in our youth system) on the bench you may find games where top teams are 3/4/5 goals up and coaches like Klopp might throw a Camacho or Wilson on for 10 or 15 mins knowing there's almost no risk
The premier league needs to agree to it, fa cant just change the homegrown rules.

Offline blacksun

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98950 on: February 8, 2019, 07:12:52 PM »
The premier league needs to agree to it, fa cant just change the homegrown rules.

True but why wouldn't they? It wouldn't do anything to harm the game from their perspective

Offline KingKolo

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98951 on: February 8, 2019, 07:36:05 PM »
True but why wouldn't they? It wouldn't do anything to harm the game from their perspective
Being really cynical, the PL might regard Mahrez coming on at 3-0 with 15 to play as more marketable than Foden (for example).

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98952 on: February 8, 2019, 07:39:20 PM »
I have always wondered why the FA don't change the rules so you can have any number of say U21 academy players on the bench in PL games. They changed it from five to seven subs thinking that would help but it just meant clubs could put more of the squad players on the bench but if you could name lets say 1 GK and 5 outfield subs and then any number of the U21 academy players (ie players who had spent 2 years in our youth system) on the bench you may find games where top teams are 3/4/5 goals up and coaches like Klopp might throw a Camacho or Wilson on for 10 or 15 mins knowing there's almost no risk

So, like 25 subs on the bench?
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Offline blacksun

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98953 on: February 8, 2019, 08:16:45 PM »
So, like 25 subs on the bench?

Come on POP you're better than that, there's no way Klopp thinks 20 of his academy players are ready for PL football but maybe 4/5 are worth a look and having those players available for the situation I suggested may allow one or two to get 10-15 mins now and again to let the coaches see how they fair against PL players

Don't Serie A do something like this?

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98954 on: February 8, 2019, 08:45:37 PM »
Come on POP you're better than that, there's no way Klopp thinks 20 of his academy players are ready for PL football but maybe 4/5 are worth a look and having those players available for the situation I suggested may allow one or two to get 10-15 mins now and again to let the coaches see how they fair against PL players

Don't Serie A do something like this?

I was intrigued by the "any number" part ;D

Quote
I have always wondered why the FA don't change the rules so you can have any number of say U21 academy players on the bench in PL games

I don't think there's a need to do that. Nobody is being held back. If they look the part, they'll get their chance. If they're not getting their chance, then they aren't looking the part. Unfortunately, it needs 15 or so players to exist in order to create a team around the one player who has a chance to make it.
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Offline KingKolo

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98955 on: February 8, 2019, 08:58:02 PM »
Nobody is being held back. If they look the part, they'll get their chance. If they're not getting their chance, then they aren't looking the part.
I'd  disagree there. Young players at top six clubs definitely aren't getting enough opportunities to play league game, in my humble opinion anyways.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98956 on: February 8, 2019, 09:16:14 PM »
I'd  disagree there. Young players at top six clubs definitely aren't getting enough opportunities to play league game, in my humble opinion anyways.

If they were good enough, they'd start. Every club would prefer to have cut-price youth doing what Hazard, Sterling, Salah, Alli, Martial etc., do. It saves on transfer fees and wages. But most players don't make it to that level of ability, because they don't have that level of ability. It's rare - but not unheard of, obviously - for an academy, home-grown player to slip through the net for a top 6 club. Even if they're not producing right away, they'll show enough to the scouts and first team coaches to say "this lad has it, let's keep him". But most academy players don't have that for senior level play.

Top players will always get a chance.
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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98957 on: February 8, 2019, 09:25:10 PM »
The thing is though, 17/18 yead old sterling also wouldnt have been good enough to start over any of those. He got his chance because his competition was borini/downing/suso/enrique

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98958 on: February 9, 2019, 05:03:02 AM »
The thing is though, 17/18 yead old sterling also wouldnt have been good enough to start over any of those. He got his chance because his competition was borini/downing/suso/enrique

It was actually Kuyt he first replaced, under Kenny. Kenny saw something in him, and Rodgers did too.
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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #98959 on: February 9, 2019, 10:09:21 AM »
He played less than 30 minutes under kenny, if that's the chances they're going to get they're wasting there time here.