Author Topic: Youth and Under 23 Thread  (Read 9482831 times)

Offline Robbo1980

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #160 on: January 9, 2008, 05:47:03 PM »
Sunderland would have very little interest in Hobbs IMO for a few reasons.

A) they need premiership experience in the players they buy in Jan.
B) he plays for Liverpool and Keane only signs ex mancs

and i dont think it would be a good move for him, better to learn under slightly less pressure than a relegation fight that could cost Sunderland tens of millions of £, if those fans turned on him it could destroy his confidence.

Offline ouestlereferee

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #161 on: January 9, 2008, 05:47:14 PM »
well they've only got £20m to spend and they really need to improve everywhere.  So loans may be of interest to them.  Unless Keane can sell 6 or 7 players in the transfer window and add 3m of quality in each position then the bulk of their team is still not good enough.  As you say it's a gamble, but Keane has to gamble - his "safe option" does not work.  That's why Hobbs is more likely to get game time with them than with us, where Arbeloa is not as big a gamble - he's alot more used to working with Carragher, Riise & Finnan so you're only asking him to move position, wheras you're asking Hobbs to work with a new defence, at a far far higher standard.

forgot to add.  neither Keane nor Niall Quinn are old hands at running a club.  And i would doubt either of them have the contact network to find the likes of Arbeloa...  In fact, if he did, he coudl probably build a back 4 akin to:
Arbeloa-Vidic-Agger-Evra  - which cost around £20m!  That would be some business in the transfer market if you did it.....

Offline ouestlereferee

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #162 on: January 9, 2008, 05:49:21 PM »

Everyone should also remember that Arsenal's young team has taken a long time to get together, getting Carling Cup games here and there.

Very very very good point.  And there also not as young as people think they are either...  of their first XI only Fabregas & Clichy are less than 23....

Offline Robbo1980

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #163 on: January 9, 2008, 05:49:24 PM »
Quote
forgot to add.  neither Keane nor Niall Quinn are old hands at running a club.  And i would doubt either of them have the contact network to find the likes of Arbeloa...  In fact, if he did, he coudl probably build a back 4 akin to:
Arbeloa-Vidic-Agger-Evra  - which cost around £20m!  That would be some business in the transfer market if you did it.....

Hey??, your just rambling now  ;)

Offline Crazyhorse7778

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #164 on: January 9, 2008, 05:50:13 PM »
Very very very good point.  And there also not as young as people think they are either...  of their first XI only Fabregas & Clichy are less than 23....

the arsenal kids mantra that the media love is really annoying.
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #165 on: January 9, 2008, 05:54:47 PM »
Sunderland would have very little interest in Hobbs IMO for a few reasons.

A) they need Premier League experience in the players they buy in Jan.
B) he plays for Liverpool and Keane only signs ex mancs

and i dont think it would be a good move for him, better to learn under slightly less pressure than a relegation fight that could cost Sunderland tens of millions of £, if those fans turned on him it could destroy his confidence.

A) Agreed.  The question is will they get them
B) Basically everyone signed

 has either played with Keane at Utd, Celtic, or ROI.  This has been a big mistake.  He needs, and is probably prepared to look around elsewhere.

I'm not sure whether it's a better idea to give Hobbs experience in the Championship or PL.  Championship is more likely to build his confidence in the short term.  But the PL he'll probably learn more that'll be useful for him at Liverpool.  Just not sure about this one.

Offline Robbo1980

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #166 on: January 9, 2008, 05:56:02 PM »
The good thing about Arsenals set up is that Wenger does not rush them at all, Clichy has only really made the break through this year after making his debut years ago, instead of throwing him in Wenger played Flamini left back or even Cygan, a lot of Arsenals kids show very little when they 1st go into the team but they then get 5 years to develope and look how they benefit from it.

Denilson is one to watch, hasnt done much but has a lofty rep, but there is no pressure on Wenger to play him so he can be allowed to develope, IMO he wont be a regular for atleast 3/4 years.

Alex Song looked shit when i saw him 2 or 3 years ago in midfield but now looks a promising centre half having not been sighted for the last 2 years.

Offline ouestlereferee

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #167 on: January 9, 2008, 05:56:53 PM »
Hey??, your just rambling now  ;)

I just wanted to point out that it's not likely they'll find the salvation they want from taking players out of the Macedonina 2nd division....   They don't have a big pool of available players so they have to be more open to the likes of Hobbs....

Offline Robbo1980

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #168 on: January 9, 2008, 06:01:12 PM »
Quote
I just wanted to point out that it's not likely they'll find the salvation they want from taking players out of the Macedonina 2nd division....   They don't have a big pool of available players so they have to be more open to the likes of Hobbs....

I was joking with you mate, i get where you are coming from but if they have £20 million to spend they wont be after Hobbs, they will sign 4 or 5 players max, they will bring in a bit of experience (hence they were after Robbie savage).

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #169 on: January 9, 2008, 06:05:08 PM »
The good thing about Arsenals set up is that Wenger does not rush them at all, Clichy has only really made the break through this year after making his debut years ago, instead of throwing him in Wenger played Flamini left back or even Cygan, a lot of Arsenals kids show very little when they 1st go into the team but they then get 5 years to develope and look how they benefit from it.

Denilson is one to watch, hasnt done much but has a lofty rep, but there is no pressure on Wenger to play him so he can be allowed to develope, IMO he wont be a regular for atleast 3/4 years.

Alex Song looked shit when i saw him 2 or 3 years ago in midfield but now looks a promising centre half having not been sighted for the last 2 years.


True enough.  I would say that Wenger is happier to use the youngsters as subs etc than Rafa tho, who tends to be overly conservative...(in general)  For example, he could have easily given gametime to Insua & Nemeth during the Luton game by starting Insua at LB, Riise at LM, Babel up front.  Then after 60 mins, bring on Nemeth for Insua, shuffle Babel to LM, Riise to LB.   That kind of thing.  And I don't think that, in this situation, he would have got any slack for doing so and getting the result we got.  If anything it's more trouble when the likes of Voronin, Kuyt, and Crouch can't do too much between them!  The media then have more of a basis than normal with which to attack Rafa...

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #170 on: January 9, 2008, 06:06:45 PM »
I was joking with you mate, i get where you are coming from but if they have £20 million to spend they wont be after Hobbs, they will sign 4 or 5 players max, they will bring in a bit of experience (hence they were after Robbie savage).

As I said, given their circumstances, I wouldn't say Keane & Quinn are in a position to dismiss these possibilities - even if they are not their first choice....

Offline Pr0n

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #171 on: January 9, 2008, 06:09:24 PM »
All said, I do think Hobbs would benefit tremendously from playing in the championship until the end of this season.. (If not in the PL)
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #172 on: January 9, 2008, 08:33:59 PM »
All said, I do think Hobbs would benefit tremendously from playing in the championship until the end of this season.. (If not in the PL)

Again first team football cannot do any harn not matter where just look at Anderson & Guthrie.
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Offline Fordy

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #173 on: January 9, 2008, 08:42:18 PM »
Again first team football cannot do any harn not matter where just look at Anderson & Guthrie.

It can do harm because it can give then a taste a good taste but a taste they want week in week out, but a taste they wont get at Liverpool the season after. So liverpool then leaves a bad taste and the player leaves for a good taste.

Just got stuck on the taste.

Seriously though can you understand where i am going from. Sometimes sending players out on loan doesnt keep their feet on the ground and we lose out as we have to sell them and buy a more expensive player to replace them.

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #174 on: January 9, 2008, 08:43:34 PM »
- Nikolay Mihaylov
This guy looks class in the academy games

Offline Sarge

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #175 on: January 9, 2008, 08:50:45 PM »
It can do harm because it can give then a taste a good taste but a taste they want week in week out, but a taste they wont get at Liverpool the season after. So liverpool then leaves a bad taste and the player leaves for a good taste.

Just got stuck on the taste.

Seriously though can you understand where i am going from. Sometimes sending players out on loan doesnt keep their feet on the ground and we lose out as we have to sell them and buy a more expensive player to replace them.

Do not agree.
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Offline Fordy

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #176 on: January 9, 2008, 08:53:33 PM »
Do not agree.

Why?

I am not saying it happens to every player but I am sure it happens to most.

Offline Sarge

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #177 on: January 9, 2008, 09:00:24 PM »
Why?

I am not saying it happens to every player but I am sure it happens to most.

Maybe some but not most. I personnally feel if the Younger players are out playing first team footbal that they cannot get at present until they mature it can only benefit us in the long run.
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Offline Fordy

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #178 on: January 9, 2008, 09:21:04 PM »
Maybe some but not most. I personnally feel if the Younger players are out playing first team footbal that they cannot get at present until they mature it can only benefit us in the long run.

Ok lets use Anderson and Guthrie for example who are both out on loan. Both in my eyes players with a bright future.However are they going to be here next season? We dont know. why as Rafa hasnt come out and said so. All the players Wenger let out on loan last season have come back and played matches in the 1st team. See Rafa has to say what plans he has for these players to boast confinance etc. Not that these players are going to these clubs for to be in the shop window. See we say on here that if you go on loan then your not coming back and thats wrong and thats why we dont move forward in terms of youth development because its giving these players false hope and not giving them them chance to be at centre stage at Livepool FC.

Do you think Guthrie will not want to play game for the 1st next season if he stays at Liverpool? I think he will want to but due to the fact we dont use the C/C as youth development then he wont get that chance and he will leave.

Offline macmanamanaman

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #179 on: January 9, 2008, 09:25:37 PM »
I actually hope we try out Hamill/Anderson for a few games at the end of the season ( esp If those games are dead rubbers by then  :-X)

Would be a much better option than buying a 'decent' 'will give us possibilities' midlevel AM/Winger. But if can manage to get a really TOP player (aka Mancini, Quaresma) then its another matter altogether.
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Offline Sarge

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #180 on: January 9, 2008, 09:51:02 PM »
Ok lets use Anderson and Guthrie for example who are both out on loan. Both in my eyes players with a bright future.However are they going to be here next season? We dont know. why as Rafa hasnt come out and said so. All the players Wenger let out on loan last season have come back and played matches in the 1st team. See Rafa has to say what plans he has for these players to boast confinance etc. Not that these players are going to these clubs for to be in the shop window. See we say on here that if you go on loan then your not coming back and thats wrong and thats why we dont move forward in terms of youth development because its giving these players false hope and not giving them them chance to be at centre stage at Livepool FC.

Do you think Guthrie will not want to play game for the 1st next season if he stays at Liverpool? I think he will want to but due to the fact we dont use the C/C as youth development then he wont get that chance and he will leave.

Fair point but i feel we will sell more than they want to go, Guthrie for instance.
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Offline Fordy

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #181 on: January 9, 2008, 10:07:38 PM »
Fair point but i feel we will sell more than they want to go, Guthrie for instance.

Carson???

The bottom line is that we have to start think as a club on how to develop these players and I feel that Wenger way is the right way.

Would you give up the Carling Cup for these players to mature in games. Its about creaming players. showing them what is they can achieve. Group together. The major problem we have is that we dont have a settled formation so it will be hard for Youth players to come straight in. This is what Rafa needs to look at. Jose at Chelsea made sure that the reserves and youth team play 4--3-3, Barca reserves and youth 4-3-3, Arsenal and utd both reserves and youth play the same as the 1st team. So as we dont dont what we are counting on is real player to storm through like Gerrard and Owen and thats hard.Its easier for a player to slot in and fill a gap.

Offline Sarge

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #182 on: January 10, 2008, 01:30:48 AM »
Carson???

The bottom line is that we have to start think as a club on how to develop these players and I feel that Wenger way is the right way.

Would you give up the Carling Cup for these players to mature in games. Its about creaming players. showing them what is they can achieve. Group together. The major problem we have is that we dont have a settled formation so it will be hard for Youth players to come straight in. This is what Rafa needs to look at. Jose at Chelsea made sure that the reserves and youth team play 4--3-3, Barca reserves and youth 4-3-3, Arsenal and utd both reserves and youth play the same as the 1st team. So as we dont dont what we are counting on is real player to storm through like Gerrard and Owen and thats hard.Its easier for a player to slot in and fill a gap.

I have not problem with this.
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #183 on: January 10, 2008, 01:34:25 AM »
- Nikolay Mihaylov
This guy looks class in the academy games

I'm fairly sure he's on loan at FC Twente.
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Offline Sarge

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #184 on: January 10, 2008, 02:36:43 PM »
So who is out on loan?
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #185 on: January 12, 2008, 09:13:10 AM »
Caught a reply of the Red in Reserve V Boro at home.

I know you can't judge everything on one game, but you can at least get a gut feeling for a player, at least 4 on show have to ability to be first team regulars IMO;

Nemeth, will know doubt get dubbed the new Owen, but he reminds me of Saviola at his best.
Leto, direct winger with a few tricks up his sleeve.
Insua, looks like he could be club left back for the next ten years.
Damien Plessis, looks like he could be the type of french player Wenger picks up and turns out to be world class, with us thinking, why can't we sign players like that? a Momo who can pass.
Jay Spearing looks like he can play, but unfortunately don't think he can make it a Liverpool in centre mid due to his size, could defiantly end up at a wigan or Fulham though.

Offline lucid-tentacles

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #186 on: January 12, 2008, 09:44:27 AM »
In that middlesbro game the player that impressed me most and not just because he scored a goal was Huth a BIG centre back with a BIG header what does anyone else think
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Offline Sarge

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #187 on: January 12, 2008, 11:47:44 AM »
Its goods to see 4/5 players not including Anderson and Guthrie coming on great.
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Offline Sarge

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #188 on: January 12, 2008, 09:14:33 PM »
So did the youths/reserves play this weekend?
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #189 on: January 12, 2008, 09:25:47 PM »
So did the youths/reserves play this weekend?

don't know about the youth team but the reserves was called off due to waterlogged pitch
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Offline Sarge

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #190 on: January 12, 2008, 09:27:18 PM »
don't know about the youth team but the reserves was called off due to waterlogged pitch

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Offline alanricouk

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #191 on: January 13, 2008, 01:21:18 AM »
The Paul Anderson scored today. Well, it was given as O.G in the end.

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #192 on: January 13, 2008, 07:52:58 AM »
Beside the players that have been already listed as possible first teamers, one player that i am really excited about is Godwin Antwi. He was a reseves captain for a while, than he was loaned to Accrington Stanley for a month which was later extended till the end of the season, was described as a rock at the back by Stanley fans. Now he is at loan to Hartlepool United and has played almost every game for them uptil now.

So basically he is improving gradually, first played for a League 2 team now is a regular first teamer of a League 1 side hopefully will be playing for a Championship side next season and keep in mind that he is a CB who is 19 years old.

PS. Degs i am looking forward to your post regarding him.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2008, 07:55:22 AM by badkhan »

Offline Sarge

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #193 on: January 13, 2008, 09:20:09 PM »
Bump.

Enjoying this thread about the players in waiting.
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Offline Degs

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #194 on: January 13, 2008, 11:27:05 PM »
So basically he is improving gradually, first played for a League 2 team now is a regular first teamer of a League 1 side hopefully will be playing for a Championship side next season and keep in mind that he is a CB who is 19 years old.

PS. Degs i am looking forward to your post regarding him.
Trying like fuck but they're so slow in sending out passwords, replying to messages, etc.

You'd probably get a better response psoting something like "Hartlepool Reds/Blues" in the big 4 forums.

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #195 on: January 13, 2008, 11:30:54 PM »
Trying like fuck but they're so slow in sending out passwords, replying to messages, etc.

You'd probably get a better response psoting something like "Hartlepool Reds/Blues" in the big 4 forums.


Huh?
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Offline Degs

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #196 on: January 13, 2008, 11:41:15 PM »

Huh?
I said I'd go round other boards asking for info on our loanees.

All the accounts I've set up are still in "limbo" and don't look likely to be approved, dead boards everywhere.

Offline Sarge

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #197 on: January 13, 2008, 11:47:35 PM »
I said I'd go round other boards asking for info on our loanees.

All the accounts I've set up are still in "limbo" and don't look likely to be approved, dead boards everywhere.

Sound, have you watched the reserves/youth team?
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Offline Degs

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #198 on: January 13, 2008, 11:58:17 PM »
Sound, have you watched the reserves/youth team?
I try to give the rezzies a watch and used to go the youth cup matches but if often conflicts with my pub activities.

I'm not the oracle that alot of people on here are but I watch enough.
Quick summary:

Insua: Could challenge Riise for a place now, but then who couldn't.  If Rafa was looking at Heinze, then Kaladze, then continuing to play Riise at left-back I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the lad to break into the first team.

Anderson: Starting to tire for Swansea but could step into our first team any day of the week (again this isn't an indication of how good he is, more of how bad we appear to be of late), definatley the bright light on the horizon.

Leto: Plays good for the reserves, looked very over-awed against Marseille.  Rafa may give the lad one more crack at the first team, but I think that'll be it.  The lad could make it somewhere eventually, but to look good in the reserves isn't enough you have to be great (see Neil Mellor).

Plessis: Lad looks good.  Can tackle, can pass, but unfortunatley he's at centre mid.  Centre mid has been "locked" for many years to come.

Nemeth: Looks very good but has only had a few games, lets not get carried away yet.

Like I say though I hardly get to watch them anymore so take my opinions with a pinch of salt.

Offline ouestlereferee

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #199 on: January 14, 2008, 12:12:22 AM »
Insua: Could challenge Riise for a place now, but then who couldn't.  If Rafa was looking at Heinze, then Kaladze, then continuing to play Riise at left-back I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the lad to break into the first team.

That's a way of looking at it.  It's also possible that Rafa just doesn't feel Insua is ready quite yet - hence playing/shop-windowing JAR.  Heinze & Kaladze - Rafa could be trying to get another Pellegrino with better on-field performances.

Leto: Plays good for the reserves, looked very over-awed against Marseille.  Rafa may give the lad one more crack at the first team, but I think that'll be it.  The lad could make it somewhere eventually, but to look good in the reserves isn't enough you have to be great (see Neil Mellor).

I suspect he won't make.   But I agree with you.  There's talk of him being loaned to Racing Santander - which I think would be a good thing.