Topic: Capturing the Prem...

[Gojedo]

What will be needed to make a serious tilt at winning it? has anybody got any thoughts to what the team needs to change or improve if we are to mount a serious challange.
I think G.H has done a pretty good job on building a team that has depth and strength, which will be called upon now that Liverpool have nearly both feet in the Champ League door.

I also think that Le Bosses trust in the current batch(aye, he is the Chef of a mouth watering spread ) of players in doing the job sends out the right message to his players, it's a vote of confidance that they are the players who CAN DO IT.

I did'nt get to see many games but I got the impression, through interviews and other fans comments that the team spirit is high, which can only bode well for a team effort that will be needed to wrench the title off Man Utd and head off other teams challanges.

I do know that the consistancy level will have to pick up. It was frustrating to see them pick off some difficult teams in the Prem as well as Europe but then lose the plot against teams lower down the pecking order. If we can maintain a higher level of concentration and composure against teams that we should be beating then more prem points can be there for the taking.

Some people have said that next year might be more realistic but I think the Reds can mount a serious challange for it this year. Either way, can't wait for kick-off...

Any thoughts?

[mercury]

i do believe after last season we should be over the mental/consistency hurdle and able to grind out results now (that's what they described the Mancs, more often we are called lucky).  

we are well balance, no major weakness in any position with enough depth, versatlilty and quality.  interesting to see how our full attacking force fare this season now that Redders and Litmanen are back - better distribution, better movement should be possible.  Plus a little bit more ruthlessness - that will be easier when we blend in - we can be abosulutely terrifying (sorry guys, last season was only a prelude).

other top teams have also made major improvements (at least on paper).  if we can stay healthy overall, a serious challenge for us this year but give the Mancs still have the upper hand - if only for the way lesser teams fall for them.

[misho]

I think that we have so many positions for strenghtening. It's not something that we could do just for one summer but the sad thing for me is that we didn't bought at least one quality player... and we need much more than one.
1. SW - I know that Buffon and Toldo are untouchable but probably we would be able to beat Arsenal for Wright because he will be #2 choice for Gunners.
2. Caragher - Don't get me wrong, Carra is one of my favorite players. He is good defencive midfielder and as a left back he would expirience a lot of problems against a quality right midfielder as Mendieta, Figo, Becham... I think that playing with Caragher as a left back we not only create a possible weakness in defence but we also lost a good midfielder - in my opinion Carra is much better than Hamman. And Ian Harte is my preferred player for the left back position.
3. Henchoz/Traore - Campbell could be the ideal partner for Sami.
4. Midfield - our biggest problem. Gerard is a good prospect for the future - he could become real star in next couple of years. Berger, Smicer, Diomede, Hamman, Redknapp - they are not that good to bring us glory. They can't play week in and wek out at their best. I think that the signing of at least one very quality midfielder was a must that summer and failing to do that was our biggest mistake. Mendieta, Veron, Riquelme, Nedved... someone of their kind is a must if we want the title.
I read what GH thinks about the crazy transfer market but it sounds like: "Sorry, Man U are untouchable and CL is too tough for us." I don't think this is the way for the massive club as Liverpool.
5. Attacking force - fortunately we are happy to have Robbie and Michael and with heskey we are strong enough and nobody could say that Man U or Arsenal have better forwards than us. Imagine how poor we would be if we should spend money for a quality payers as Michael and Robbie.
6. Manager - I know a lot of people have a full fate in GH but I don't think he's a right man for us. His first 2 years were so poor and even last season we were lucky so many times: not only lucky because the oponents couldn't score but also because there were penalties for Arsenal and Roma that could leave us with the Worthless Cup only.

[Cardie]

OH good, the GH isn't the right man for the job brigade is back. At the start of each season Houllier has told us what he is going to achieve, now correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't he achieved every target he has set himself? How can the guy be a weak link when he will go down in history!!!

[Millsee]

Misho? Sounds suspishuslee like MS to me? Anyone been on ShanklyGates (spit) lately?

GH not good enough? We might beat Arsenal to the signature of Wright, and Ian Harte is your favourite left back?

Gerrard is a hope for thfuture and Berger and Redknapp are not quality players.

Fucking hell man. If you're not going to talk sense......

Ps- oh aye. We were lucky all right!!

[Cardie]

Milsee,

It's not MS there no talk of Cappello and Misho rates Fowler. He is from the official site and is fond of making these weird posts.  

[misho]

2 years ago he said: champions league and then we failed to win our last 5 games, remember?
Now is it clear that he said: "We are going for the title"?
Really, I don't want to offence nobody. I know many people like GH. It's just a discusion.
Cardie, what if he failed to win the title? Man U are so strong. They did the treble and they were lucky so many times that year. But they had some great games - against Juve away and against Inter Milan.
Last year we had some great wins but what about good games? I was pleased by the way we played against Man U at Anfield but it was just a few days before their game against Bayern  and they were already Champs so I guess they didn't even try to give their best.
That's why I don't think GH is the right man.

[Cardie]

He said europe, Champs league was a bonus.

[Millsee]

Tell you something. You're right.

That game against alaves was poor, as was the one against Everton, West Ham and Southampton.

We played poorly against Chelsea (twice), Leicester, Derby and Leeds (once). Have you watched the treble video, because I'm damn sure you didn't see any live games.

And as for the scum not giving their best. Oh, please!

Like we didn't try aginst Everton.

It's their fucking cup final, you knob.

[misho]

I live in Bulgaria so you are right - I've never been at Anfield or in England. But I've watched so many games live on Sky or on Eurosport, or even on one of our cable-TV's -1 live game each Saturday. This summer I watched us against Bayer Leverkusen and Valencia and tonoght I'm going to watch Liverpool-Ajax game live on Sky. So don't be so damn sure cause you're not right.
Let's calm down because we are all LFC supporters and I bet you don't want to see Man U making 4 on a row and 8 out of 10, right?
I just can't see how GH is going to prevent this happening?!

[misho]

Against Alaves? They finished 10 in La Liga it was quite dramatic win after a great start. Twice we failed to keep 2 goal lead. This game against Alaves reminds of our defeat against Leeds almost 10 years ago - nice game, dramatic come back from Leeds but not very quality game at all.
I watched all 3 of our games against Leeds last season and we lost twice for the League  (second one at Anfield could cost us CL) and our Cup win was important but I don't think we were better that Leeds.
Everton - you mean our 3-2 win, when Gary Macca scored an amazing goal from a free kick, right? Well, if it was SW to receive a goal like this - all of us would like to kill him, right? And Everton are close to relegation at that moment so it woulfd be shame to not beat them.
All our games against Chelsea are tough especially that one in London.

[Gnurglan]

Two things, for anyone in doubt.

Before last season kicked off, we thought "Hey, a trophy would be nice! It was quite a long time since the last one." GH said something about us qualifying for the CL and perhaps winning one trophy. That was the target. We got 3! Let's give the man and the team some credit! Lucky or not, we still got 3 trophies.

Mancs. So, they played us and were not up to the task, because they were thinking of Bayern? (I'm sure they would have loved to beat us after 0-1 at OT...) Let's imagine that would be true, because it tells you something about them. They don't have the option of fielding a different team! They have to play Giggs, Keane, Scholes and Beckham week in, week out. Play Chadwick, Fortune, Butt... no way! They are not good enough. Instead, Fergie had to put the same line up out. If they are so great, they should be able to get a decent team together for every game.
They lost to Bayern, by the way.    

[Millsee]

Of course, Everton's position in the league is the only factor in determining how they play against us.
And GH will keep doing what he was doing last season. That was what brought us three trophies - was it only Christmas that we really started playing as a unit? What did Sky say? Because they are gospel after all.

And had you heard of CD Alaves before the UEFA Cup. Did you know that half the time they play for no wages because they come from one of the poorest regions in Europe? Did you know that they are renowned through Spain as a club that everyone respects because they carry on regardless, wages or no, even though no-one likes them - "like your Leeds United"!!!

YNWA (That means You'll Never Walk Alone - some fans sign it now and again. The words will be on the web somewhere)

[Gnurglan]

Perhaps we should have beaten Alaves 3-1, 4-2 or at least stayed away from extra time. Perhaps. But perhaps doesn't count.  

The thing is, this team played in their first European Final. We were expected to win. Alaves had surprised everyone, but who were they, really? We were the Big team. Alaves had nothing to lose and they gave their all. Credit to them. We had everything to lose!

Here were the boys, who had just won the FA Cup, knowing that they SHOULD bring the UEFA Cup to Anfield too. They really should. And, they managed to win. They performed when the pressure was on. That's what makes champions!

Everton, Roma, etc. and all our 'lucky' games. Not again, please. We took our chances! How many times did we dictate game in the 90s and won nothing? It's always the same with great teams. Luck comes to the prepared.  

I do think beating the lesser teams is what we need to do to win the PL. The last 10 games in 2000/01 suggest that we are on track.

(Just bring in Pep Guardiola...)

[Gojedo]

Yeah, I agree that the run down the 'home straight' from Liverpool was a vast improvement, composure wise, to the beginning, middle and probably the majority of the season where hiccups here and there cost us some points. Hopefully they can transfer that end of season run consistancy to this season.

The pressure that was on them during the last part of last season was immense and for sure, they delivered. A sign of the team maturing perhaps. That experience of pressure must have gone a long way to instilling some confidence in the team.

Personally, I think G.H has the team to make a fist of it this season. Guess we'll know for sure in a few months.

[mercury]

Dear Misho

Most of the points you raised have in fact been so well discussed in this and other forums that I am beginning to feel a bit weary to go over all of them again.  It is suffice to say that with due respect to your opinion  I must disagree with most of what you said.

It seems Liverpool fans are split into two groups right now.  One, like your goodself, is most positively pessimistic about GH and the team except for a couple of players and generally feel the need to buy big or buy all over.  The other, like me, is happy with the team in general, feel the need for some fine tuning only and is hopeful of a new successful era under GH.  

A big reason for the split is that, while all of us target EPL title and CL title (in that order), the expectation of the team's pace and quality of progress is vastly different between us.  To you, it has been disappointing  under GH; to me, the progress has been very good, to put it mildly.

Maybe we agree to disagree and let the team do the talking.  

[misho]

I agree with you, mercury.
We also agree that winning the title is the most important thing this season, right? Dead or Glory! Being 3-rd and in CL would only be success if Man U are 2-nd? Don't let them win 4 on a row and 8 out of 10!
Do you think we could beat Man U for the title this year? I think we can and that's why I'm criticising GH and his decisions. I don't think his policy will lead us to the title.
So tell me about Y2002 - Title?

[Millsee]

See, it sufficient to say that the team is progressing and progressing well.

GH had a 5-year plan when he took sole charge - he now has Crevoisier in place; the two of them built France from nothing to the force they are now. Who had heard of Zidane and co before GH came along?

Try not to measure against other clubs - that can only lead to disappointment. Are we better now than scum of 95, 96, 97? Are we better than Liverpool of 90, 95? Are we better than Arsenal of 88?

There are no answers. Head to head, we can do the scum every time. No sweat.

A lot of people want immediate results. I've been waiting 12 or 13 years for this squad and this manager (Shankly in Disguise? Even He had His defectors at the start!)

If we don't win anything this season, it's no great shake and not a failure as long as the squad develops. And that doesn't mean whopping out the chequebook and paying over the odds for every player linked with the club.

King Kenny bought the championship with Blackburn - look where they are now!!

Its only pre-season; you couldnt have predicted three trophies this time last year. That not good enough for you?

If it isn't, cop a look at this link.
http://www.krysstal.com/trophies.html

[misho]

I've posted this before about GH - he's not the man who made France. I'm bulgarian and it is strongly connected to my country so believe me - HE WAS THE MAN WHO FAILED TO QUALIFY for USA'94.
France had to play with Israel and Bulgaria at home - their last 2 games. And GH was the manager! They lost 2-3 from Israel, can you imagine?! And then Bulgaria beat them and went to USA. GH was a loser as a France manager.
Then he used to do some work in french FA, and he used to prepare some kind of a plan for the french youngsters - it sounds as a work for a clerc.
That's what he did for France. GH was not the manager who made Zidane, don't say that. And he was not the man who won their cups.
Check his biography if you don't believe me.

[Millsee]

This is just the sort of mentality that we could do without.

FACT - Houllier and Crevoisier put into place the youth systems that brought the likes of Zidane, Vieira, and the rest through.

FACT - Although he was in charge when France failed to qualify for USA94 (remember Ginola - oo so close), that was the start of his tenure. He left as France were qualifying for the 98 tournament.

FACT- It is Houllier who is winning cups with Liverpool

It's you who should get his facts right pal.

IHWT

Oh, and you spelt clerk wrong. Not bad for a bulgarian

[mercury]

Dear Misho,

yeah, winning the title is the ultimate target. but as millsee say, it's no big deal if we can't do it next year as long as the team develop. that's the great divide in terms of expectation that I talk about.

as far as GH is concerned, I don't care how France lost in 1994.  To me, he has already done a great job for Liverpool - another great divide.  There is always a possibility that he would not be not the man who ultimately lift the title trophy; while I can't speak for others, he already has a place in my heart heart for hauling Liverpool back from the abyss and bringing back the right ethos.  

[Gojedo]

I totally agree with you Mercury. The Original Question was to fanthom fans opinions about what would be required if we were to mount and maybe capture the biggest prize of them all but like you I think it's not doom and gloom if we don't.

If G.H and the boys 'fail' to bring it home it is a long way off from panic stations regarding the player make up of the team or G.H's abilities as a manager. Regarding Le Boss, in fact the whole team, there is a popular saying down here which goes 'these things take time you see'.
And Mr Houllier HAS instilled  an incredible amount of character, ability, depth and trust into the side. This is evident in his explanation for not rushing out to buy 'superstars' but trusting in the fact that he HAS the players here and now that can do the job and showing a decent amount of faith.

I still think we can make a right fist of it for the prem and who knows, maybe this is the year but if it's not, there's always the next and it can't be too far off now.

[Millsee]

My dad used to say:

"Slowly, slowly, catchy monkey".

Not that he was Mr Meyagee off Karate Kid you understand!!!

[misho]

It takes time - yes. How many years to bring the title back? Is a decade enough for GH?
Look at Aston Villa? They were great team when they won Europian Cup. And after that they are just great... very good... good enough... now they are absolutely nothing.
The same happens to Everton. If we start thinking that it is not big deal to fail next season because the important thing is to improve... No, it's not about improvement, it's about winning the title.
It's about team work and team movement, especially when you can't afford to spend big money. And these two things are what we missed and these things are still missing - no improvement there! We have an amazing strike force and that help us to score even with our helpless midfield.
An example of good team movement - Ajax yesterday.

GH said that Man U are hard to reach. When Capello came to Rome did he said that Lazio and Juve were hard to reach? If there is a will (and skills), there is a way. Don't say about the big money Capello spent because GH spent about J70.

Millsee, try to specify what exactly GH did:
- he was France head coach to '98 and he left just before the World Cup???
or
- he and Crevoisier were working on french youth sistem?
It's impossible to do both things, right?

Also the improvement of young players is something that the clubs have to do and not the national federation clerks (thanks for the lesson).
As a manager GH in France was a loser. As a clerk - perfect. Do we need a clerk for a manager?

[Millsee]

If having a "clerk" -as you so eloquently put it - as manager means winning three trophies every year, then yes!

This "clerk" is also a member of UEFA and FIFAs techical committees. Presumably you think to take minutes and make tea and stuff.

The "clerk" also coached the French U18s to the European Championship in 96 and the U20s to the quarters of the 97 world championship. So, then, yes.

And also, it is the responsibility of the national coach (with the clubs' support) to bring on new players. Who had heard of Chris Powell until the last England international?!

And finally, when Houllier took sole charge, he said it would take 5 years. One thing realsupporters have going for them is patience. Look at the quotes above to see the minority you are in.

Le Boss has done a sterling job. Now we are reaping the benefits.

[misho]

Millsee, do you remember what Roy Evans said; "I do believe that it takes up to 5 years to win a title from a situation like ours." And when the 5 years gone he said; "Give me one or two more please."
The same will happen with GH, I guess. He is starting the preparation if you can read between the lines. He said the transfer market is going crazy. Then he said it could be that he will spend a lot of money in next couple of years!!!

Probably you forgot what GH said about Robbie and Michael when the treble was far away and the team played bad. He said that Michael and Robbie are not the world class players! Why? Because he's not a good manager but he knows how to keep his place. The next step is to say: "I need more quality players if you want me to win cups."
Fortunately for him we did the treble - and I have to say it's not GH who win the treble but the players like Robbie and Michael with their goals in so many games when we were so poor.
Something about Robbie and Michael - they are amazing because in any other team midfield will crerate a lot more chances for them. In Liverpool they have to create goalscoring chances by themselves - as Robbie did against Ajax, because our midfield failed to create at least a chance for our strikers.

About Chris Powell - do you really mean that the Charlton fans haven't heard nothing about him before his first England cap?
And Zidane was a star long before GH - he was old enough in '96.

I know there are not many Liverpool supporters that didn't believe in GH right now (maybe that Ajaz defeat will bring some new members but seriously - that was just a friendly) but do you think the majority is always right? And what the majority will think if we failed to win the title in next 2 years?

[Pheeny]

An example of good team movement - Ajax yesterday.
Maybe but I was there on Thursday and they where SHIT

[misho]

I watched that game on Sky Sports Extra. Yes, they showed nothing from what they did against us. But their whole team probably costs as much as our Robbie and Michael. So you can't expect them to be perfect in every game. Since their Europian Cup they expirienced a lot of troubles and they are an average europian team.
But we have to be perfect if we want the title, right?
Remember what Shankly said!
Stop Man U or they will make 4 in a row and 8 out of 10 - absolute record!

[Millsee]

This is the Roy Evans that was only in charge for 4 years (including the joint manager bit)? You are now discrediting yourself with false quotes - the last refuge of the defeated!!

And you are telling me that Liverpool's midfield doesn't create goals? Oh, please.

A cross from Diomede......and its LITMANENNNNNN!

As for Chris Powell (well done for knowing he was from Charlton), you understand my reference, that he wasn't well known until he played for England, so less of the literal references please.

And yes, the majority is always right. That is what a democracy is all about. (Do you have one of those yet?)

it's not GH who win the treble

  That comment will be treated with the contempt it deserves.

How come he gets criticised by your sort if the team lose, but no credit if the team wins, hmmm? Answers on a postcard please!

[Millsee]

Just for the record, Fowler and Owen didn't cost anything. They were products of our youth system that Houllier is developing. As he did in France.

I presume you are referring to what they are worth (£60mill or so). An asset that didn't cost anything. Now that's good business.

[misho]

It's a SHAME, Millsee!
Is the GH the one that create the world and the mankind???
Robbie was our GOD long before GH, remember?
In 1998 Michael Owen scored 23 goals, remember? It was also "before-GH era".
So Robbie and Michael are a good business but GH is not involved.
Even Gerard played some games under Evans.
But GH was the man who tried to make a right back from Steve and now he's trying to make a left back from Caragher who made a record in England Under-21 as a captain and a central midfielder. And also Carra did well against Italy in a friendly under Ericson.

Evans took the job in 1994.
1994-5
1995-6
1996-7
1997-8
He was fired in 1998-99 season (his fifth) when he was joint manager with GH and our start was so poor that it was clear we are not going to be champs. And he said: "Give me one or two more" probably a month before he was fired.

[Millsee]

Tut tut bulgaria. False quotes again!!! :-/

I didn't say that Fowler and Owen came on under Houllier. I did say that they came on as a result of the youth system, that Houllier is developing. The intimation is that he doing it right!

And by Gerard, do you mean Gerrard (as in Steven)?

And I'm not going to argue somantics with you over how long Evans was in charge, but if he resigned at the start of his fifth season in charge, surely that means he was in charge for four years?

And you haven't answered my final question (no change there then!)

How come he gets criticised by your sort if the team lose, but no credit if the team wins?

By your own arguement, Shankly, Paisley and Dalglish never won anything either.

[misho]

you wrote: "I did say that they came on as a result of the youth system, that Houllier is developing."
Youth system was developed long before GH was born.
And our Academy of Excelence was built before GH too.
From the official site: "In January 1999 Liverpool proudly unveiled its new Soccer Academy..."
I can't remember exactly when we started to build the Academy. It was probably 2 or 3 years before jan 1999.

You wrote: "How come he gets criticised by your sort if the team lose, but no credit if the team wins?"
That's because of the way the team won the treble. We beat a lot of low division sides, remember? Great exapmle is our semi-final draw for FA Cup - Wicomb. We only beat Leeds away (and it was a game when they had so many injured players, they beat us at Anfield for the League with their full strenght). And against Arsenal we were so poor, also there were 2 penalties that only the referee missed. And the goals Michael scored were not a result of a combinations.
Worthless Cup - no need to say anything. Just that: Birmingham and Crystal Palace were our opponents. Only one massive club - Chelsea, at Anfield, Robbie in extra-time gave us the vital goal.
UEFA - we beat Porto and Olimpiakos - average teams.
We beat Barca at the time they struggle to win even at Now Camp and they were the better side even at Anfield. Thanks to Kluivert' madness we scored.
We beat Roma without Totti and Batti-goal in first leg. And we were beaten at Anfield, also there was a penalty - the referee first said penalty, then said "corner".
We beat Alaves - 10 in La Liga - in extra-time. And we failed to keep 2 goals lead twice against the poor Alaves.

Anyway, your english is very good. The same with GH. Unfortunately, good english is not something that counts in football even if you are just a fan. And unfortunately GH is our manager.

[Millsee]

Hmm. Thinking about it, you're right.

I'm off to support the Mancs.

See ya!

BTW

The more I practice, the luckier I get - Gary Player

(he was a golfer)

[Cardie]

Aww why didn't I realise sooner, I could have been there for there 8 title wins. Milsee wait for me!!!!

Misho, you truly are an arse. Not content with being out thought on the offical site you come here and get a double dose  

[misho]

I'll always support Liverpool but that doesn't means I have no right to criticise the club.

[Millsee]

There's one thing criticising - as a fan for 26 years, I've had plenty to criticise over the past decade - but to have a go at a manager for "only" winning three trophies is not on.

Oh, sorry. He's not a manger, he's a clerk. And he didn't win anything did he?

Circular arguements, I am not interested in.

[C.B Alonso]

All i can say is:

"Gerard, Gerard Houllier!
Gerard, Gerard Houllier!
Gerard, Gerard Houllier!
Gerard, Gerard Houllier..!"

Theres no one better, thats all i can say.

[Gojedo]

Bloody a bloody a...
bloody a bloody a...
fricken a fricken a...
fricken a fricken a...
bugger me bugger me...
bugger me bugger me...
if you ain't right mate....

[Millsee]

He's done my tits in this morning, Misho has.

Imagine this headline:

"Gerard Houllier Sacked Shocker: Misho now in charge at Anfield"