Author Topic: Javier Mascherano  (Read 404003 times)

Offline theCanadian

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #960 on: December 16, 2007, 07:34:01 am »
Hopefully he puts in a performance tomorrow that will convince the owners he's worth it.
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Offline ouestlereferee

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #961 on: December 16, 2007, 07:36:53 am »
Hopefully he puts in a performance tomorrow that will convince the owners he's worth it.


maybe even score a goal!

Offline Randy Monk

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #962 on: December 16, 2007, 07:40:26 am »
The little chef will cook us a delight tonight!

Offline Neil D

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #963 on: December 22, 2007, 06:50:21 pm »
He is simply outstanding.

Offline cal_liverpoolfc

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #964 on: December 22, 2007, 06:50:55 pm »
just fucking world class again today , love him to bits
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Offline Ibracadabra

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #965 on: December 22, 2007, 06:55:27 pm »
Javier is a great defensive midfielder and has every right to be praised the way he is! He may even be in the list of top 5 defensive midfielders in the world. Good performance today! He showed real confidence in the way he makes his tackles and holds nothing back.

I would also like to comment on his shooting. It's abysmal and he really needs to work on it.

Offline GinKop

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #966 on: December 22, 2007, 06:56:28 pm »
The roof will come off Anfield when he scores. Hope his first is at home and a winner or something special at the Kop end.
JFT97

Offline BazC

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #967 on: December 22, 2007, 06:57:42 pm »
MOTM today, absolute performance. Great tackles, passes and surges forward. All that was missing was a goal, but I think we'll forgive him for that one  :P
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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #968 on: December 22, 2007, 07:00:01 pm »
MOTM today, absolute performance. Great tackles, passes and surges forward. All that was missing was a goal, but I think we'll forgive him for that one  :P

Very true. It was a complete performance. He did get a shot on net...well not exactly...but it was a shot!
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Offline rebel23

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #969 on: December 23, 2007, 01:26:04 am »
sign!!

Offline campioni1984

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #970 on: December 23, 2007, 01:31:42 am »
Yet another marvellous performance.The lad is world class.Buy!!!!!
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Offline MFletcher

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #971 on: December 23, 2007, 01:35:54 am »
how do you guys know so much about this?

also, what's the difference between tevez & masch's situations??

Tevez has signed for the Mancs on a two year contract - presumably with an understanding that they will pay MSI/whoever actually owns him a set fee after that period of time. It's the same with us except Masch came in the middle of the season and was instead given an 18 month deal.

MSI can't force either player to move for the duration of their contracts, but we either have to pay them a fee at the end of it or release the player - meaning that then reassume control of the player's contracts and are free to sell them on to any club willing to meet their asking price - with the money going to them and not us.

And regarding Masch today, he was absolutely brilliant. His tackles led to the first two goals and he was unbelievable.

Not signing him would be scandalous. He's a world class player and he's only 23. An absolutely fantastic acquisition for the club.
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Offline kkhaku

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #972 on: December 23, 2007, 01:47:10 am »
Not signing him would be scandalous.  An absolutely fantastic acquisition for the club.

Agreed. If you asked me a couple of months ago though I would've said 17mill was too much. I still think its a little steep for a strictly defensive midfielder who offers no goal threat - (at least Didi could shoot) but Javier reminds me more and more of Roy Keane every time I watch him. Tenacious, passionate, positionally gifted, and a hell of a tackler. I also appreciate the fact that he doesnt always keep things simple - tries to thread thru passes for the strikers, and gets forward well - and altho he doesn't have Alonso's range or technique, he's still young, and he can only get better.
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Offline torresftw

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #973 on: December 23, 2007, 04:13:23 am »
Every week he reaffirms how much we need him, it would be criminal not to sign him now

Offline the brad

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #974 on: December 23, 2007, 05:37:07 pm »
Absolutely awesome yesterday

Offline LFC on tour

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #975 on: December 23, 2007, 05:37:58 pm »
If we dont sign him because the Yanks are too fucking tight, i will personally hunt them down and torture them.

Offline DAVE36

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #976 on: December 23, 2007, 08:46:19 pm »
Please he was playing against Portsmouth not Real Madrid, Good as what he is it would be madness to spend 17 million on him and not have money later on for more important areas of the team.

Offline BCCC

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #977 on: December 23, 2007, 08:48:18 pm »
Please he was playing against Portsmouth not Real Madrid, Good as what he is it would be madness to spend 17 million on him and not have money later on for more important areas of the team.

Your not even a good wind up merchant.

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Offline cal_liverpoolfc

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #978 on: December 23, 2007, 08:50:45 pm »
Please he was playing against Portsmouth not Real Madrid, Good as what he is it would be madness to spend 17 million on him and not have money later on for more important areas of the team.

do you always come out with poo?
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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #979 on: December 23, 2007, 08:51:18 pm »
Please he was playing against Portsmouth not Real Madrid, Good as what he is it would be madness to spend 17 million on him and not have money later on for more important areas of the team.

Calling you dull is a gross underestimation of just how tedious you are. You have the personality of a damp sponge and the appeal of a moldy sweat sock. Genius does what it must, talent does what it can, and you had best do what you're told, you dyslexic lobotomy patient.
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Offline underscore

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #980 on: December 23, 2007, 09:41:08 pm »
Please he was playing against Portsmouth not Real Madrid, Good as what he is it would be madness to spend 17 million on him and not have money later on for more important areas of the team.
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Offline woof

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #981 on: December 23, 2007, 11:29:18 pm »
Please he was playing against Portsmouth not Real Madrid, Good as what he is it would be madness to spend 17 million on him and not have money later on for more important areas of the team.
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Offline Stussy

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #982 on: December 23, 2007, 11:40:31 pm »
Not signing him would be scandalous. He's a world class player and he's only 23. An absolutely fantastic acquisition for the club.

I'd go as far to say that not signing him would mean forgetting about our club doing anything under this ownership regime. A team that aspires to win the title and compete in Europe that allows a player of Masch's calibre, who has said he wants to stay at Liverpool for many years, and says he is absolutely happy with his life, and has ambitions to win all he can with us, and speaks of his affection for us, if we were to let him slip through our fingers because of lack of funds we will know that they want to turn us into Everton. Masch is the litmus paper test.

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Offline bigbear

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #983 on: December 23, 2007, 11:43:35 pm »
I'd go as far to say that not signing him would mean forgetting about our club doing anything under this ownership regime. A team that aspires to win the title and compete in Europe that allows a player of Masch's calibre, who has said he wants to stay at Liverpool for many years, and says he is absolutely happy with his life, and has ambitions to win all he can with us, and speaks of his affection for us, if we were to let him slip through our fingers because of lack of funds we will know that they want to turn us into Everton. Masch is the litmus paper test.


I agree with that. Especially since we have players to sell to recoup some funds.

If we're serious about challenging for the title then we need to keep our best players and he is most definitely up there.

Offline ouestlereferee

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #984 on: December 24, 2007, 12:02:34 am »
I agree with that. Especially since we have players to sell to recoup some funds.

If we're serious about challenging for the title then we need to keep our best players and he is most definitely up there.

agreed.

it may be a controversial view, but if you were to create a world XI ( a proper one, with real players, rather than 4 attacking midfieders, wingers @ full back ) i think he's at least, if not more, likely than any of our other squad to get picked.  (there are a lot of options for the position gerrard would take, and the same for torres, but masch would really just be up against gattuso & essien for the holding/defensive role)

on a less controversial note, i think that there are actually subtle costs to not signing masch e.g.:
- will we be as attractive to torres-class players?  or will our hands be weaker at negotiations (i.e. less players will want to play for us, we may have to pay them more)
- what happens to morale in the squad?  will we underperform in the PL or CL if there's unhappiness?  we lose prize money from this.
- what happens to our marketability in latin america - one of the world's most important emerging markets?  furthermore, argentine kids will become liverpool fans because of masch - and some of them will be world-class players in the future - and we want them to play for us.  argentine kids are probably, understandably, closer to spanish football, but we all have teams in other countries we follow e.g. barca, milan etc.  there are two top quality argentine players in the PL - masch and tevez.  with the emergence of aguero, alongside messi, of course, it's entirely plausible that tevez may not be a first choice starter for argentina in the coming years (he's good, but he's just not better than messi, and even if he's been good for utd, aguero has been incredible, in, frankly, a weaker team).  us and utd already have a huge advantage in argentina because of having these players, but us having masch starting regularly for arg with tevez on the bench really would help our imagine there (not forgetting insua too - the consensus is he'll be really good, even if opinion on leto is more divided)
- masch does not run around like a headless chicken - be it sissoko or roy keane.  there's no reason to think he can't be a top player til 35 (like makelele).  he's 23 now.  we could get 12 years out of him.  getting this sorted out now will save us in the longer term...

Offline MFletcher

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #985 on: December 24, 2007, 12:06:26 am »
How would it look for the owners if they didn't sign him?

The vast majority of Liverpool fans recognise his quality and contribution to the team. £17M is the going rate for a world class midfielder such as Mascherano. He has made it clear that he wishes to stay and Rafa appears just as desperate to complete the deal as Mascherano.

If the Yanks can't stump up £17M for a proven star - who has already performed magnificently for the club, meaning no real risk - then they will have put the final nail into the coffin they've been fashioning for themselves since they told Rafa to "focus on coaching and training".
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Offline woof

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #986 on: December 24, 2007, 12:12:49 am »
For those who thought Sissoko did "pretty well" in the Carling Cup game against Chelsea, please have your head checked. Masch showed in the weekend how playing "pretty well" is. If he worked on his scoring, he'd be worth 25 million at least, like Essien. He's still not Essien, whom I regard as the best in the world in that position, he's still young and doesn't blow hot & cold during a game

Offline Pr0n

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #987 on: December 24, 2007, 12:13:50 am »
agreed.

it may be a controversial view, but if you were to create a world XI ( a proper one, with real players, rather than 4 attacking midfieders, wingers @ full back ) i think he's at least, if not more, likely than any of our other squad to get picked.  (there are a lot of options for the position gerrard would take, and the same for torres, but masch would really just be up against gattuso & essien for the holding/defensive role)

on a less controversial note, i think that there are actually subtle costs to not signing masch e.g.:
- will we be as attractive to torres-class players?  or will our hands be weaker at negotiations (i.e. less players will want to play for us, we may have to pay them more)
- what happens to morale in the squad?  will we underperform in the PL or CL if there's unhappiness?  we lose prize money from this.
- what happens to our marketability in latin america - one of the world's most important emerging markets?  furthermore, argentine kids will become liverpool fans because of masch - and some of them will be world-class players in the future - and we want them to play for us.  argentine kids are probably, understandably, closer to spanish football, but we all have teams in other countries we follow e.g. barca, milan etc.  there are two top quality argentine players in the PL - masch and tevez.  with the emergence of aguero, alongside messi, of course, it's entirely plausible that tevez may not be a first choice starter for argentina in the coming years (he's good, but he's just not better than messi, and even if he's been good for utd, aguero has been incredible, in, frankly, a weaker team).  us and utd already have a huge advantage in argentina because of having these players, but us having masch starting regularly for arg with tevez on the bench really would help our imagine there (not forgetting insua too - the consensus is he'll be really good, even if opinion on leto is more divided)
- masch does not run around like a headless chicken - be it sissoko or roy keane.  there's no reason to think he can't be a top player til 35 (like makelele).  he's 23 now.  we could get 12 years out of him.  getting this sorted out now will save us in the longer term...

I bit long drawn conclusions.. as if there where not players like alonso and pirlo (holding mids) who'd get the nod before a powerhouse-all-included mid like Masch or Essien. If we let him go it has to be for a good reason (can't think of one), and that reason should'nt be money. If we have to start letting good players go because of money it's quite disastrous, like you say. I think it's pretty obvious Rafa rates the guy and he rarely dissapoints when he's on the field. That's enough for me..
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Offline Stussy

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #988 on: December 24, 2007, 12:15:40 am »
agreed.

it may be a controversial view, but if you were to create a world XI ( a proper one, with real players, rather than 4 attacking midfieders, wingers @ full back ) i think he's at least, if not more, likely than any of our other squad to get picked.  (there are a lot of options for the position gerrard would take, and the same for torres, but masch would really just be up against gattuso & essien for the holding/defensive role)

on a less controversial note, i think that there are actually subtle costs to not signing masch e.g.:
- will we be as attractive to torres-class players?  or will our hands be weaker at negotiations (i.e. less players will want to play for us, we may have to pay them more)
- what happens to morale in the squad?  will we underperform in the PL or CL if there's unhappiness?  we lose prize money from this.
- what happens to our marketability in latin america - one of the world's most important emerging markets?  furthermore, argentine kids will become liverpool fans because of masch - and some of them will be world-class players in the future - and we want them to play for us.  argentine kids are probably, understandably, closer to spanish football, but we all have teams in other countries we follow e.g. barca, milan etc.  there are two top quality argentine players in the PL - masch and tevez.  with the emergence of aguero, alongside messi, of course, it's entirely plausible that tevez may not be a first choice starter for argentina in the coming years (he's good, but he's just not better than messi, and even if he's been good for utd, aguero has been incredible, in, frankly, a weaker team).  us and utd already have a huge advantage in argentina because of having these players, but us having masch starting regularly for arg with tevez on the bench really would help our imagine there (not forgetting insua too - the consensus is he'll be really good, even if opinion on leto is more divided)
- masch does not run around like a headless chicken - be it sissoko or roy keane.  there's no reason to think he can't be a top player til 35 (like makelele).  he's 23 now.  we could get 12 years out of him.  getting this sorted out now will save us in the longer term...

When any mid table team can cough up 10 million quid for absolute blerts, Spurs can pay 16 million for Bent, and loads of other examples (and we're not talking about our main rivals, just mid tablers), if we can't secure one of the worlds best players, who is desperate to stay with us, then we're pea fuckin' soup. We know we've been bought to be neutered and nobody is serious about anything. Then it would be mutiny time. The whole thing stinks. They've treated us with so much disrespect, we who welcomed them with open arms.

Every hour when i think of things in a different light I change my mind though. One minute optimistic, the next pessimistic. The one ray of hope I see is that Rafa is saying that he wants to stay. Rafa knows when he's being played for a fool and disrespected and he's not afraid to walk out as his Valencia experience shows. He's been treated so disrespetfully by these people that he had every right to leave. Rafa is not a sap and he's not anybody's fool. The fact that he's still here and has said he wants to stay so bad makes me hope that things are being ironed out and maybe we shouldn't worry as much as we are. I hope, anyway.






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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #989 on: December 24, 2007, 12:16:45 am »
I bit long drawn conclusions.. as if there where not players like alonso and pirlo (holding mids) who'd get the nod before a powerhouse-all-included mid like Masch or Essien. If we let him go it has to be for a good reason (can't think of one), and that reason should'nt be money. If we have to start letting good players go because of money it's quite disastrous, like you say. I think it's pretty obvious Rafa rates the guy and he rarely dissapoints when he's on the field. That's enough for me..
Mascherano actually solves a problem we have with our midfield in big European games as he has the pace and tackling ability to snuff out a Totti type hole player as he did with Kaka.

Without him, Alonso has to do it and it's not really his strength.

On the basis he makes us more likley to do better in CL knock out games then he will pay for himself !!

Offline Pr0n

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #990 on: December 24, 2007, 12:21:16 am »
Mascherano actually solves a problem we have with our midfield in big European games as he has the pace and tackling ability to snuff out a Totti type hole player as he did with Kaka.

Without him, Alonso has to do it and it's not really his strength.

On the basis he makes us more likley to do better in CL knock out games then he will pay for himself !!

Agree, Im not saying there is'nt a need for a player like Masch. Of our 3 best centremids, each have their strengths.
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Offline Stussy

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #991 on: December 24, 2007, 12:39:07 am »

Just read this and weep. That Liverpool FC are in such a state that we are faced with a pair of Americans constantly briefing against the greatest manager we could have at this moment building a team that is slowly coming to fruition. It makes me want to scream.

+++++

Javier Mascherano proves his value to Rafael Benitez

They appear to have more pressing concerns at a time when their ownership of the club has already reached crisis point, but if Liverpool’s American owners were to cast an eye over the performance on Saturday, they might just start to understand why Rafael BenÍtez wants them to put their growing financial worries to the back of their minds and stump up £17 million to sign Javier Mascherano to a long-term contract.

Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr will not do so, of course – not yet and possibly not ever, given the uncertainty that has raised serious doubts about their troubled regime as the clock ticks down towards a February deadline to refinance the £220 million that they borrowed to fund their initial takeover. Transfer activity is no longer the top priority at Anfield – and nor, for this reason alone, is the future of a manager for whom the American tycoons have little or no time – but even as he struggles to come to terms with the instability of his own position, BenÍtez cannot tolerate the idea of allowing Mascherano to slip through the club’s hands.

Fernando Torres may have stolen the limelight with two late goals, his ninth and tenth in his first 11 appearances at Anfield, but not even he could quite eclipse Mascherano. With Steven Gerrard unusually subdued alongside him, the Argentina player was relentless, terrorising the Portsmouth midfield throughout and having a hand in each of Liverpool’s four goals. In a typically understated way, it was a masterclass from the man known in his homeland as Jefecito, or little chief.

The performance made a mockery of his inability to get a game for West Ham United a year ago, but who at Liverpool can say where he will be in another 12 months, with the club’s unusual lease arrangement with his “owners” due to expire in the summer? Barcelona are lurking with intent, hoping to exploit the continuing uncertainty at Anfield. BenÍtez said on Saturday evening: “It’s always better to get it done as soon as possible, but we just have to wait.” And wait and wait, it seems, while the owners try to get their finances in order.

For Liverpool’s two opening goals, a volley from Yossi Benayoun and a comical own goal from Sylvain Distin, Torres played an important part, but on both occasions it was Mascherano who won possession from Sulley Muntari. Thereafter, with his team 2-0 up in 15 minutes, others simply went through the motions, but from Mascherano there was no let-up.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/article3090341.ece



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Offline BazC

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #992 on: December 24, 2007, 12:47:23 am »
We better sign him. Sell Sissoko, Guthrie or whatever- raise the cash to get him, he's one of our world class players. Like I've said, it'll say a lot about these Americans if they allow this player to slip through the club's hands. Never are we going to find it easier to get such a top, top player...
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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #993 on: December 24, 2007, 12:56:57 am »
G+H will probably rely on Rafa to keep Mascherano sweet until June..

I agree, if we lose Mashie, it will be the sign of things to come, and that isnt good, in any shape or form.

RiH
Los Rojos Conquistadores
"It's good to have a challenge in training. If you play against one of the best strikers in the Premier League almost everyday, that can only help you when the game comes around each weekend."
 
Asked if he had worked out how to stop Torres, Hyypia added: "I'm working on it, I'm working on it.

Offline woof

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #994 on: December 24, 2007, 12:59:21 am »
We better sign him. Sell Sissoko, Guthrie or whatever- raise the cash to get him, he's one of our world class players. Like I've said, it'll say a lot about these Americans if they allow this player to slip through the club's hands. Never are we going to find it easier to get such a top, top player...
I'd sell Sissoko regardless.

If the owners do let this opportunity slip and allow Masch to leave, I'd lose my respect for them

Offline Aldridge 8

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #995 on: December 24, 2007, 12:59:53 am »
G+H will probably rely on Rafa to keep Mascherano sweet until June..

I agree, if we lose Mashie, it will be the sign of things to come, and that isnt good, in any shape or form.

RiH
i have no problem in keeping masch , but to pay 17 million for a player who contributes nothing in attack is madness  , yes masch is good but not 17 million time good .

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #996 on: December 24, 2007, 01:03:31 am »
We better sign him. Sell Sissoko, Guthrie or whatever- raise the cash to get him, he's one of our world class players. Like I've said, it'll say a lot about these Americans if they allow this player to slip through the club's hands. Never are we going to find it easier to get such a top, top player...

nail on head

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #997 on: December 24, 2007, 01:05:00 am »
Hardly surprising that the papers are running full stop on the bandwagon about our doom and total collapse. It's easy to create good news in this situation. It's a fucking problem, and the americans have a hard job to turn their image around and sort everything out.
To new beginnings!

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #998 on: December 24, 2007, 01:05:09 am »
i have no problem in keeping masch , but to pay 17 million for a player who contributes nothing in attack is madness  , yes masch is good but not 17 million time good .
How much did ManU pay for Ferdinand? Spurs for Bent? Chelsea for a whole host of underperforming players? I suppose it's probably better to persist with Sissoko who only cost us 6 million?

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #999 on: December 24, 2007, 01:07:06 am »
i have no problem in keeping masch , but to pay 17 million for a player who contributes nothing in attack is madness  , yes masch is good but not 17 million time good .

1) read my post - there are opportunity costs to not keeping him
2) i'd love to be back in the day where the transfer record is 3-4 million - we were better able to compete
3) masch has peers who contribute less in attack and are weaker in defence who have cost more than him
4) the 17m may include wages
5) he was in some way involved in the build up for all 4 goals yesterday....