Author Topic: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez  (Read 7552 times)

Offline DonkeyWan

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One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« on: September 1, 2007, 06:10:43 PM »
This might sound churlish on the back of our best start for umpteen years (decieving though this may be by the standard of two of the opposition teams) and a 6-0 thumping of Derby. However, today provides a prime example of what I am irritated by.

Yes our squad is strong and yes we need to give our new players important playing minutes. However, there should still be scope to blood younger players. There is little point in shipping in dozens of exciting prospects if they never get even a substitutes run on the pitch. I understand the argument that players who are good enough will make the step-up, but I can't help feel that players need first team time to improve their all round game. Gerrard when he first came on the scene looked an indifferent prospect and it was only Houllier's continued faith in him that eventually brought him through.

Without this continuous influx of young players eventually we will discourage the best young talent from coming to the club. Today, at 4 or 5-0 was the correct time to see a youngster blooded and it is to the ultimate detriment of the club as awhole that it did not occur. Hopefully as the season continues we will see chances for younger players to play first team (other than the coke can cup or FA cup).
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Offline RedTerry

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #1 on: September 1, 2007, 06:12:18 PM »
You can't please some people!
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Offline Mimi

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #2 on: September 1, 2007, 06:14:18 PM »
So what's he doing with Babel again? The rest of the youngsters can take their chance in the league and FA cup runs. We needed an emphatic win to get over this week, Pako's departure and get us into the international break in the right frame of mind.

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #3 on: September 1, 2007, 06:15:16 PM »
Serial pessimist or serial complainer?
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Offline svennis

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #4 on: September 1, 2007, 06:15:30 PM »
So Rafa should have knew that we'll beat Derby 6-0 and put some youngsters on the bench instead of experienced internationals like Benayoun, Riise, Sissoko and Voronin?

Offline MBE

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #5 on: September 1, 2007, 06:16:37 PM »
So what's he doing with Babel again? The rest of the youngsters can take their chance in the league and FA cup runs. We needed an emphatic win to get over this week, Pako's departure and get us into the international break in the right frame of mind.

Well said.  Good answer to that moaning mingebag. 
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Offline mjgill85

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #6 on: September 1, 2007, 06:17:26 PM »
This would be helped if the FA/Premier League got up to speed and allowed teams to name a 7 man bench like much of the rest of Europe (still with a maximum of 3 to come on).

This would allow managers to name a youngster or two on the bench who could come on should the game situation be right.

Hell, they could it so that two players must be under 21 or under 21 and have come through the club's academy or under 21 and British or under 18 etc. Would also have the possible effect of helping the national side in the long term which seems to be the current media 'hot spot'.

Can't see a reason for the 5 sub rule considering the current climate of clubs with large squads, particularly in the top flight.
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Offline StormyDog

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #7 on: September 1, 2007, 06:19:19 PM »
In reality we blood our players in European competition.
Rafa has stated that he can not put kids on the bench in the prem as he only has 4 outfield slots. In the CL he has 6.
In almost every CL game we have at least 1 kid on the bench so that if things are going well he can get some playing time.

The pressure to win every game n the prem with the title winners scoring 90+ points is too much to risk weakening the bench by filling it with kids.

This is why RB wanted to play LFC-reserves in the Championship, in effect he's getting his way by loaning many of the kids to local sides while still allowing the staff at Liverpool to keep an eye on them.
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Offline Angelius

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #8 on: September 1, 2007, 06:21:33 PM »
what if we weren't winning 4-0, 5-0 and we needed an impact sub like voronin or benayoun. the other three subs are more of a necessity with a cover for a goalkeeper, defender, and a central midfielder. you can't go into a match assuming that you're going to win it 6-0. that's impossible. you go into a match with a plan a, plan b, plan c, plan d etc. etc.

i have always supported the idea of 7 substitute bench with two compulsory academy players. so when the match gets tough, it is not necessary for the gaffer to use these players. however, in situations like this, he can introduce these players for some precious minutes because like the original poster, i believe that playing in the first team improves a players all round game.

Offline 11 friends

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #9 on: September 1, 2007, 06:21:55 PM »
Surely Rafa has to try and integrate the new players that he deems close to the first team first-no?

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #10 on: September 1, 2007, 06:24:41 PM »
Rafa bloods youngsters like everyone else, in the league cup where it doesn't matter but he has given youngsters time on the pitch, to the likes of Darren Potter, John Otsemebor, Danny Guthrie, Lee Peltier, Emiliano Insua and he'll continue to do so, but his main way of getting our youngsters first team action is through loan deals. We've got too many youngsters and too many great players in our first team squad to give youngsters. How would Crouchie feel for instance if he lost his bench place to Nemeth for instance. That would feel like a bad snub. They're all still young and this is the reason why I'm really looking forward to the league cup this season.
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Offline redman1977

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #11 on: September 1, 2007, 06:25:20 PM »
This would be helped if the FA/Premier League got up to speed and allowed teams to name a 7 man bench like much of the rest of Europe (still with a maximum of 3 to come on).

This would allow managers to name a youngster or two on the bench who could come on should the game situation be right.

Hell, they could it so that two players must be under 21 or under 21 and have come through the club's academy or under 21 and British or under 18 etc. Would also have the possible effect of helping the national side in the long term which seems to be the current media 'hot spot'.

Can't see a reason for the 5 sub rule considering the current climate of clubs with large squads, particularly in the top flight.


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Offline catinthebag

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #12 on: September 1, 2007, 06:26:12 PM »
This is simply the problem of not having 7 subs to choose from. for 5 subs, you need: gk, df, mid, maybe striker, and wide player, be it fullback or winger.

With 7 subs you can be sure one of the kids will be sitting there just in case he can be blooded. With only 5 there simply isn't the space for that or we might get caught out on unlucky injury sequences, like Sunderland last week.

*sorry mjgill. didn't see your post before i posted.
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Offline toshi

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #13 on: September 1, 2007, 06:26:28 PM »
Surely Rafa has to try and integrate the new players that he deems close to the first team first-no?

for sure, and League Cup / FA Cup are the best place to do that, don't you agree?
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Offline Benitez

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #14 on: September 1, 2007, 06:26:57 PM »
fecin hell!

We had a starting 11 today, with 6 players that where 25 years or younger, if that where Arsenal, people would be going on about it.

Rafa doesn't have a problem trusting young players and giving them a chance IF they are good enough. And that is all that matters.

Talk about critisising for the hell of it.
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Offline JohnSullie

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #15 on: September 1, 2007, 06:29:53 PM »
This might sound churlish on the back of our best start for umpteen years (decieving though this may be by the standard of two of the opposition teams) and a 6-0 thumping of Derby. However, today provides a prime example of what I am irritated by.

Yes our squad is strong and yes we need to give our new players important playing minutes. However, there should still be scope to blood younger players. There is little point in shipping in dozens of exciting prospects if they never get even a substitutes run on the pitch. I understand the argument that players who are good enough will make the step-up, but I can't help feel that players need first team time to improve their all round game. Gerrard when he first came on the scene looked an indifferent prospect and it was only Houllier's continued faith in him that eventually brought him through.

Without this continuous influx of young players eventually we will discourage the best young talent from coming to the club. Today, at 4 or 5-0 was the correct time to see a youngster blooded and it is to the ultimate detriment of the club as awhole that it did not occur. Hopefully as the season continues we will see chances for younger players to play first team (other than the coke can cup or FA cup).
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Offline Wewonit6times

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #16 on: September 1, 2007, 06:30:45 PM »
This might sound churlish on the back of our best start for umpteen years (decieving though this may be by the standard of two of the opposition teams) and a 6-0 thumping of Derby. However, today provides a prime example of what I am irritated by.

Yes our squad is strong and yes we need to give our new players important playing minutes. However, there should still be scope to blood younger players. There is little point in shipping in dozens of exciting prospects if they never get even a substitutes run on the pitch. I understand the argument that players who are good enough will make the step-up, but I can't help feel that players need first team time to improve their all round game. Gerrard when he first came on the scene looked an indifferent prospect and it was only Houllier's continued faith in him that eventually brought him through.

Without this continuous influx of young players eventually we will discourage the best young talent from coming to the club. Today, at 4 or 5-0 was the correct time to see a youngster blooded and it is to the ultimate detriment of the club as awhole that it did not occur. Hopefully as the season continues we will see chances for younger players to play first team (other than the coke can cup or FA cup).

The funny thing is, if the match was 0-0 after 60mins and we had Insua and co on the bench you'd be ripping Rafa apart for being "unprofessional and disrespectful"

I like giving youth a go and the fact is if they're good enough they'll get a chance.

Offline TheRedBull

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #17 on: September 1, 2007, 06:34:17 PM »
Super stupid... No more comment needed.

Offline BrettD

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #18 on: September 1, 2007, 06:35:36 PM »
The funny thing is, if the match was 0-0 after 60mins and we had Insua and co on the bench you'd be ripping Rafa apart for being "unprofessional and disrespectful"

I like giving youth a go and the fact is if they're good enough they'll get a chance.

Exactly, and what was the average age of our team today? Even lower if you take out Sami.

Offline BrettD

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #19 on: September 1, 2007, 06:36:10 PM »

Offline Wewonit6times

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #20 on: September 1, 2007, 06:37:30 PM »

Offline grimreaper

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #21 on: September 1, 2007, 06:37:45 PM »

Offline Tentacles.

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #22 on: September 1, 2007, 06:40:38 PM »
Problem is we have 22 first team players. How exactly do we keep them happy before we worry about kids
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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #23 on: September 1, 2007, 06:41:30 PM »
They're all still young and this is the reason why I'm really looking forward to the league cup this season.

Agree with that completely.
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Offline simmo71

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #24 on: September 1, 2007, 06:48:19 PM »
Could it be that he wants these players to settle down before he wants the young players to settle down?

I thought Stevie Gerrard was the dogs bollocks as soon as he came in btw.

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #25 on: September 1, 2007, 06:49:27 PM »
Perhaps my original post was a bit negative (though the response of some was, I felt, a bit childish) and the point that a bigger number of subs on the benchwould be welcome (perhaps those criticising the bigger clubs for not developing British players might look to the system a bit more. However, I still feel today against a clearly weak Derby side, there was scope to name and sub in a younger player. And those of you saying that if we had been drawing today and had no options on the bench would have seen criticism of Rafa for not having options on the bench are wrong. In that instance the players would have come under scrutiny, not Rafa. It is not pessimism, merely caution and careful assesment.
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Offline Angelius

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #26 on: September 1, 2007, 06:56:29 PM »
Perhaps my original post was a bit negative (though the response of some was, I felt, a bit childish) and the point that a bigger number of subs on the benchwould be welcome (perhaps those criticising the bigger clubs for not developing British players might look to the system a bit more. However, I still feel today against a clearly weak Derby side, there was scope to name and sub in a younger player. And those of you saying that if we had been drawing today and had no options on the bench would have seen criticism of Rafa for not having options on the bench are wrong. In that instance the players would have come under scrutiny, not Rafa. It is not pessimism, merely caution and careful assesment.

you come into a match with several plans. you don't just come in with one plan because you're a stronger team, and if you screw up, you blame the performance of the players and move on. you assess all the situations that can take place, and the players you need to counter it. this is what a subs bench is for.

a simplistic solution to blood young player just on the basis of one good result is what is childish. a bigger subs bench improves the chance of academy players but compulsion guarantees it. however, the english academies have much bigger problems than players not being able to make first team bench. first, they should get into their head that the players need coaching, and not training to play in 4-4-2 system.

but that's for another thread.

Offline 6BigCups

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #27 on: September 1, 2007, 06:58:02 PM »
Babel isnt exactly an OAP is he!

Offline cardrona7

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #28 on: September 1, 2007, 07:00:49 PM »
Ach just accept it you're off the mark on this occasion, and deserve to be shot down for such a negative outlook.

Offline friendlyswift

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #29 on: September 1, 2007, 07:03:44 PM »
Ach just accept it you're off the mark on this occasion, and deserve to be shot down for such a negative outlook.

hahaha the day any established RAWKite does that will be a cold day in hell!
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Offline AJD1986

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #30 on: September 1, 2007, 07:05:45 PM »
This is the worst thread ever. We just win 6-0 we have young players like masch, Arbeloa, Torres, Agger, Babel etc etc all on the pitch and you're worried because Insua et al didnt get a game ? What's the Carling Cup there for ? We need to win every game not worry about blooding youngsters you can have no idea are ready. Rafa does.

Furthermore the best youngster from around the world will come if you are the best. Did Lio Messi think hang on a sec Giuly is in my way at barca maybe I should go to Racing Santander. Did he shite he thought there's a great club i want some of that and if i'm good enough i'll play. Same will happen here.

Offline Barney_Rubble

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Re: One criticism I have of Rafa Benitez
« Reply #31 on: September 1, 2007, 07:25:23 PM »

Fuck me, they'll get a chance when they get a chance. This is the most critical part of the season, i.e. not the time for giving young prospects an opportunity.

A time and a place etc.


worst thread ever.

« Last Edit: September 1, 2007, 07:27:18 PM by Barney_Rubble »
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