Author Topic: Anxiety  (Read 39300 times)

Online Red Berry

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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #440 on: January 14, 2020, 04:41:41 PM »
My chest is so tight I feel it's going to crush my heart into something the size of a walnut.

Spent the morning curled up under my art desk refusing to take a valium, as I only took one on Sunday.  But I fear it's either that or alcohol.  Neither option is exactly lighting my fire.
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Offline Crimson

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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #441 on: January 19, 2020, 08:26:21 PM »
Hi mate. I feel your pain on this. I'm a lifelong sufferer of Social Anxiety Disorder which has also gone on to cause other issues such as depression, self-injury*, excessive drinking*, vastly limited life/job opportunities, very poor educational attainment, suicidal ideation, relationship issues etc...

<snip>


Hi mate, sorry for the late response. I really appreciate the sentiments and advice. I've never done professional counseling and never touched meds to deal with my stuff (although I have people close to me urging me to talk to someone..). While I feel truly crap about my situation, I realize it's a very common issue among the population. I'm happy you've found ways to deal with your issues and greatly appreciate your wise words in this thread.

The last week or so I've been working on accepting and making room for the anxiety. I almost welcome it, so I can "test" myself. When I feel it coming, I don't fight it, but try and just go about as normal. The reasoning is that if I accept it, it wont fill my head and will pass faster than if I obsess over it. It is true, what you've said in one of these posts, SoP, that by thinking about it and dreading it happening, is fueling the fire. The more I think about it, the more likely it is to happen.

Due to some unfortunate events the last decade, one of my biggest issues has become going somewhere without any knowledge of the place. I play loads of scenarios in my head where I will have an attack, what I will feel and the consequences of said attack. For example now, when I'm going to Anfield at the end of the month. As it's my first time here, I know nothing of the place. Is there a long que to get in? Will I be "stuck" in the que without any way to escape? Am I allowed to bring f.ex. bottled water? Is it allowed to stay in the stair area, or do I have to remain seated in my seat during the match? Is there room between the rows, so it's easy for me to get to the lavatory if I need it? Does it take a long time to exit the stadium after the match?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 08:29:17 PM by Crimson »
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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #442 on: January 22, 2020, 02:35:38 AM »
Hi mate, sorry for the late response. I really appreciate the sentiments and advice. I've never done professional counseling and never touched meds to deal with my stuff (although I have people close to me urging me to talk to someone..). While I feel truly crap about my situation, I realize it's a very common issue among the population. I'm happy you've found ways to deal with your issues and greatly appreciate your wise words in this thread.

The last week or so I've been working on accepting and making room for the anxiety. I almost welcome it, so I can "test" myself. When I feel it coming, I don't fight it, but try and just go about as normal. The reasoning is that if I accept it, it wont fill my head and will pass faster than if I obsess over it. It is true, what you've said in one of these posts, SoP, that by thinking about it and dreading it happening, is fueling the fire. The more I think about it, the more likely it is to happen.

Due to some unfortunate events the last decade, one of my biggest issues has become going somewhere without any knowledge of the place. I play loads of scenarios in my head where I will have an attack, what I will feel and the consequences of said attack. For example now, when I'm going to Anfield at the end of the month. As it's my first time here, I know nothing of the place. Is there a long que to get in? Will I be "stuck" in the que without any way to escape? Am I allowed to bring f.ex. bottled water? Is it allowed to stay in the stair area, or do I have to remain seated in my seat during the match? Is there room between the rows, so it's easy for me to get to the lavatory if I need it? Does it take a long time to exit the stadium after the match?

Hi mate,

You mentioned never having counselling for your issues and also that some unfortunate events over the last decade have led you to now have a fear of going to places you don't know. I wonder if you might benefit from talking it through with a professional? Doing so can often help a person to make sense of why they feel as they do. I don't know your circumstances, but if you do have the opportunity to talk it through with a counsellor it might be beneficial in some way. I'd definitely suggest that route before medication. Meds can be helpful, and they have made a difference to me, but my anxiety issues were so extreme I could barely leave the house without getting drunk first. In my case, meds were a better alternative to getting hammered in order to go to the shops. They have their downside too, so I'd definitely suggest you talk things through with someone if you can.

Yes, anxiety is extremely common. It's normal and natural. Thing is though, disordered levels of anxiety can be crippling, and go way beyond the normal anxieties life throws at us all from time to time. When it's at levels where it dictates how you live your life, then it's disordered and could do with addressing.

You mention how you've taken a more mindful approach to your anxiety over the last week or so. Hopefully this has proven beneficial in some way. The crucial thing with doing that is that you do it genuinely. By that I mean really do be willing to have and make room for anxiety if it shows up. If we only employ the technique to suppress anxiety, we are still fighting it, and we've already noticed how fighting it fuels it. We really do have to make friends with it if we can. The goal is not to get it to go away, but a by-product of accepting it often does mean it dissipates quicker and shows up less.

I can personally empathise with you with regards to going to places you don't have prior knowledge of. I'll be honest, that used to terrify me too. I'd run through the whole thing long before the event and I'd scare myself to death with all sorts of potential scenarios that might unfold. Thing is, I'm in my fifties, so I have a lot of experience to look back on now. I have plenty of hindsight. One thing that really strikes me now is how none of the things I dreaded ever panned out the way I'd predicted they would in my head. All that wasted time and energy, eh.

I think it's also quite normal and natural to need a level of certainty in things. We like to know where we stand, what we will encounter, how it will go etc... We also want to feel that we will know how to handle any eventuality. The problem there is life doesn't work like that. We can plan the practical stuff, as in our transport plans, accomodation etc, but so much of the rest cannot be predicted beforehand, so we have to go with the flow as it happens. Thing is, if we are open to experience then going with the flow is a lot easier. If we make peace with the fact that not everything is predictable and certain, then we can be more willing to let things flow and deal with them as they come up.

Mindfulness is a really good way to go on this. There are hundreds of books on Mindfulness and tons of stuff on the internet, but I don't even need all that myself. In a nutshell I just implement it by simply living in the moment as much as possible. Agonising over past events and/or worrying about future potential events is both draining and pointless. I spent most of my life worrying over scenarios that never even materialised. It's fine planning practical things for future events. That's just good, efficient planning. But as far as everything else goes we just have to be open to experience and willing to react to the moment as it happens. Of course, easier said than done, but true never the less.

It's good to try to be curious about how our experiences might go rather than fearful. You know, treat your trips as an adventure. Ups and downs are all part of the journey. So long as you are doing the things in life you value doing, making room for some anxiety and discomfort along the way is well worth it. Anfield? Who knows how that will pan out? It will be fun finding out though, eh? Plan what you can plan, but go with the flow after that. The more you do that, the more flexible and adaptable you become. The more confident too. Trust in yourself.  :)



« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 02:40:34 AM by Sons of pioneerS »
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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #443 on: January 22, 2020, 03:55:53 PM »
Hi again, Crimson.

In the early hours of the morning I tried to post a number of ACT videos, but RAWK was down for quite a while so I gave up.

Anyway, the following is just one of those. Acceptance and Commitment Therapy uses metaphors quite a lot to explain its principles. The 'Struggle Switch' metaphor is one of them, and highlights how struggling against unwanted feelings and thoughts just fuels them further, and how dropping the struggle can be beneficial.

The guy who makes many of these short metaphor videos is Dr. Russ Harris. Although he resides in Australia now, he's actually from Liverpool. Although not the founder of the ACT model (that was Steven C. Hayes) he is one of its pioneers.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/rCp1l16GCXI" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/rCp1l16GCXI</a>
« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 03:58:51 PM by Sons of pioneerS »
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Offline Kuytinho

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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #444 on: May 14, 2020, 02:12:39 PM »
I started a new job early last year in a much better position than I've had previously, with the best company culture I've experienced, and by far the best pay. My manager trusts me to get on with everything independently where possible, but is very supportive and available when needed. All feedback I've received from management and colleagues has been almost completely positive.

But I'm struggling. I feel like a fraud every single day. I feel like I will be found out at any moment, or I'll make a mistake which will prove my incompetence. I'm surrounded by intelligent, eloquent and confident engineers with years of experience, whereas I have a non-technical background and am supporting on technical projects in an industry that is new to me. I go from being overwhelmed by keeping on top of several difficult unfamiliar projects simultaneously, to feeling guilty when things slow down, as if I'm not contributing enough to justify my wage. I'm about 15 months in and telling myself I'll feel more comfortable with time is becoming less and less convincing.

I feel embarrassed that I do not seem to have the resilience to cope with this. I look at people in jobs that are actually stressful and just cannot understand why I find my situation so difficult. There are people out there performing brain surgery or going to war, yet my arse goes at the thought of having to say one sentence in a meeting of 15 people. I know comparisons to other people aren't helpful, but I can't seem to help it.

Late last year the pains in my chest, which usually only appeared before meetings, became constant. I was also having headaches every day. I visited the doctor on my way to work after my girlfriend insisting, but didn't raise the idea of my symptoms perhaps being stress related with my GP. She thought I might have been having a heart attack there and then (I wasn't), but I ended up being signed off for two weeks. Combined with the Christmas break I had about a month off and my symptoms became a lot more manageable, but I can feel myself going the same way now.

I don't really know what I want to achieve by writing this down. I usually try to keep myself occupied with different things to stop getting stuck in my head so much, but I just can't concentrate today.

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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #445 on: May 14, 2020, 06:27:07 PM »
I started a new job early last year in a much better position than I've had previously, with the best company culture I've experienced, and by far the best pay. My manager trusts me to get on with everything independently where possible, but is very supportive and available when needed. All feedback I've received from management and colleagues has been almost completely positive.

But I'm struggling. I feel like a fraud every single day. I feel like I will be found out at any moment, or I'll make a mistake which will prove my incompetence. I'm surrounded by intelligent, eloquent and confident engineers with years of experience, whereas I have a non-technical background and am supporting on technical projects in an industry that is new to me. I go from being overwhelmed by keeping on top of several difficult unfamiliar projects simultaneously, to feeling guilty when things slow down, as if I'm not contributing enough to justify my wage. I'm about 15 months in and telling myself I'll feel more comfortable with time is becoming less and less convincing.

I feel embarrassed that I do not seem to have the resilience to cope with this. I look at people in jobs that are actually stressful and just cannot understand why I find my situation so difficult. There are people out there performing brain surgery or going to war, yet my arse goes at the thought of having to say one sentence in a meeting of 15 people. I know comparisons to other people aren't helpful, but I can't seem to help it.

Late last year the pains in my chest, which usually only appeared before meetings, became constant. I was also having headaches every day. I visited the doctor on my way to work after my girlfriend insisting, but didn't raise the idea of my symptoms perhaps being stress related with my GP. She thought I might have been having a heart attack there and then (I wasn't), but I ended up being signed off for two weeks. Combined with the Christmas break I had about a month off and my symptoms became a lot more manageable, but I can feel myself going the same way now.

I don't really know what I want to achieve by writing this down. I usually try to keep myself occupied with different things to stop getting stuck in my head so much, but I just can't concentrate today.

What you describe is called Imposter Syndrome, and it's far more common than most people realise. I've always been highly prone to it myself. I left school as a written-off no-hoper with no qualifications. I was too full of anxiety to do anything at school, and was basically paralysed and stuck in a depressive malaise. I always felt a failure, and this followed on into my adult life too. Whatever I did, I felt a fraud. I eventually studied and gained a Diploma in Counselling and Psychotherapy ... but I still felt a fraud. Before that I worked as an outreach care worker, and felt a fraud there too. Every day I thought I'd get found out, and every night I feared the next day.

It's funny though, because in counselling people tell you things they normally keep to themselves, and by that I mean fellow professionals, not just clients. You would be absolutely staggered by the amount of people in positions of responsibility, people high up in workplaces, people who others look up to, who also feel a fraud too. Even my highly respected, highly professional and heavily qualified supervisor admitted to me of having the very same Imposter Syndrome I described to her. In all honesty, I think half the population are worried about being 'found out' every day. It's not just you, that's for sure.

I don't know about you, but many people who experience IS are perfectionists. Even if they get things 99% right, they will still beat themselves up over the other 1%. I used to be like that myself. These days, though, I accept that no one is perfect and should not pressure themselves to be be something that's impossible anyway. We can only do our best, and be willing to learn from our mistakes along the way. Do you expect people in your life to be perfect? I bet you don't. So why demand it of yourself?

As an outsider reading your post, it's pretty clear that you are no fraud. Just look at the evidence. You talk like your colleagues are all top notch. They may well be too, but you are in an industry new to you and, despite you inner fears, you are more than holding your own. Your manager trusts you to work independently and virtually all feedback on you has been good. This speaks for itself really. If you really were the fraud you fear you are, these people would have sussed you long ago, yet here you are, still holding your own after 15 months. I'd say it's time to give yourself some credit now.

I certainly understand your anxiety. It can be horribly debilitating. I know because I have an anxiety disorder myself. Pains in the chest always need checking out, of course, but they can also be signs of stress and potential panic attack. I've had a lot of them, and the first major one was horrific. I felt like I was dying and leaving my body. All that in public view too. Absolutely horrible. Anticipatory anxiety (the type we get when gearing up for something we are dreading) can bring all sorts of physical symptoms on, such as the headaches before meetings. I used to be so bad that my body created physical symptoms in order to get me out of stressful situations. Once away from the triggering situation, the physical symptoms subsided.

Personally, I'd probably talk to the GP if I were in your position, and be honest about what is bringing your anxiety on. Maybe even talk it through with a counsellor if you feel like. The problem with this type of thing is the pressure that comes with trying to keep it all hidden away and bottled up. Trying to hide it all can actually leave us with a situation where we have anxiety about getting anxiety. This is like trying to put a small fire out with petrol. Suddenly, you have a large fire to contend with.

Anxiety is one of those things that grow when we put our focus onto it. As counter intuitive as it sounds, making room for the anxiety whilst getting on with the things we value doing in our lives can actually see levels fall away. With anxiety, the more you don't want it, the more you have it. So, we often just have to carry it around with us while we get on with our lives. Funny thing is, when we are willing to have it, it shows up far less.

What I would say is allow yourself to be imperfect. It's normal, and it's human. Give your best and let any mistakes be valuable lessons and not only will you be a fantastic employee, but a very well-adjusted and more content person in every aspect of your life too.

None of us have it all sussed. All of us are a work in progress. The only frauds are the ones who do think they have it all sussed and have nothing more to learn.  :)

« Last Edit: May 14, 2020, 06:33:23 PM by Son of Spion* »
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Offline Macphisto80

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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #446 on: May 20, 2020, 07:01:05 PM »
Today I was out in a butcher picking up food. Grabbed a 5k bag of potatoes and a big box of chicken breasts. The girl working there asked me did I want to leave some stuff as it seemed heavy. I checked the weight on things, and myself being used to lifting weights to keep fit, I felt absolutely fine with it. As I walked outside, I suddenly felt weird and my equilibrium shifted. I suddenly lurched to the side, and the chicken went flying. Smashed and spilled all over the asphalt. As I stood up, I felt my balance off and started walking like a crab sideways to try to right myself. Couldn't stand up straight for about 10 seconds or so. Fucking weird, but I've read that anxiety could potentially trigger things like this? Anyone else with a similar experience.

Offline Crimson

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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #447 on: May 20, 2020, 08:39:48 PM »
Doesn't sound like anxiety, but like some lack of vitamins, hydration or the like. Yes, you can have these when having an anxiety attack, but it's mostly prompted by sweaty palms, racing pulse etc. Sounds like you might have had some sort of Orthostatic hypotension (typically appears when you stand up quickly after sitting for a while).
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Offline Macphisto80

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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #448 on: May 20, 2020, 09:28:38 PM »
Doesn't sound like anxiety, but like some lack of vitamins, hydration or the like. Yes, you can have these when having an anxiety attack, but it's mostly prompted by sweaty palms, racing pulse etc. Sounds like you might have had some sort of Orthostatic hypotension (typically appears when you stand up quickly after sitting for a while).
Yeah, could be a lack of vitamins or something. Definitely wasn't the weight of the stuff I was carrying. It was just really strange. It was like being clipped in boxing on one side of the head and my legs went a bit funny and had to stagger sideways. Felt a bit odd for a bit after, like a similar type of feeling of anxiety. Could be just a physiological toll of stress.

Offline kennedy81

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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #449 on: May 20, 2020, 11:04:07 PM »
Today I was out in a butcher picking up food. Grabbed a 5k bag of potatoes and a big box of chicken breasts. The girl working there asked me did I want to leave some stuff as it seemed heavy. I checked the weight on things, and myself being used to lifting weights to keep fit, I felt absolutely fine with it. As I walked outside, I suddenly felt weird and my equilibrium shifted. I suddenly lurched to the side, and the chicken went flying. Smashed and spilled all over the asphalt. As I stood up, I felt my balance off and started walking like a crab sideways to try to right myself. Couldn't stand up straight for about 10 seconds or so. Fucking weird, but I've read that anxiety could potentially trigger things like this? Anyone else with a similar experience.
I had a very similar experience when I was 18, but I was living in a squat in Peckham and had been literally only surviving on a pack of lemon bon-bons for a week as I was utterly broke. My mam had sent me over a few quid so I went to the chippy. As I was handed the food I staggered out the door with everything spinning and my balance gone. I presume it was the lack of nutrition, and it was a very warm day too.

I've been having anxiety issues lately too though. Brought on by the pandemic but most likely rooted in other issues going on in my life. I had my first anxiety attack around mid March, when I had to get out of bed at 3 in the morning as I was struggling to breath and my heart was going ninety. My stomach was in knots and I had the runs. It was a horrendous 10 minutes or so, I thought the house was falling in on my head.
I had been around people who had panic attacks before, and I think the knowledge of what was happening helped me through it, but it was rough. I had another about a month later but not as bad, though the depression that followed was worse this time.
So I decided to start researching it online and trying to get some help and advice. There's some brilliant resources online. For what it's worth I found this youtube channel very helpful, especially with just putting things in context and giving me a feeling of some control over it.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpuqYFKLkcEryEieomiAv3Q

I've also been learning about 'mindfulness' which I've found to be very useful too. Just taking 5 minutes a day to sit still and focus on my breathing really helps. Also just being more aware of what thought patterns are forming in my mind, helps me to cut them off at the pass before they lead me down dark alleys.
I've had spells of depression through my life but thankfully nothing too serious and nothing I couldn't get through, but the last two months have been very tough, as I live alone and I'm creeping up on 50. Lately I'm finding I have to work at it every day, even when I'm feeling fine (which is most days) or I fear the anxiety will ramp back up.
So I make sure I get out for a walk every day and have been watching my diet, trying to cut down on sugar etc. I'm also making sure my sleep is as good as it can be, as it's so important, and something I had never really taken seriously before, going to bed at all hours at times.
I'm always feeling like it's touch and go though, like the anxiety is ready to spring as soon as I take my eye off the ball. After the first attack, I couldn't bring myself to sleep in my bedroom for about a month and I just slept on the couch, because I was fearful being in the same bed might bring it on again. I've learned that was the wrong thing to do though, and I'm back in the bed now and sleeping well thankfully.
I hope everyone's been doing ok. I should drop into these threads more often but I've been avoiding soclal media lately and not been on RAWK much. Sorry for the long post!

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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #450 on: May 20, 2020, 11:42:16 PM »
Today I was out in a butcher picking up food. Grabbed a 5k bag of potatoes and a big box of chicken breasts. The girl working there asked me did I want to leave some stuff as it seemed heavy. I checked the weight on things, and myself being used to lifting weights to keep fit, I felt absolutely fine with it. As I walked outside, I suddenly felt weird and my equilibrium shifted. I suddenly lurched to the side, and the chicken went flying. Smashed and spilled all over the asphalt. As I stood up, I felt my balance off and started walking like a crab sideways to try to right myself. Couldn't stand up straight for about 10 seconds or so. Fucking weird, but I've read that anxiety could potentially trigger things like this? Anyone else with a similar experience.
I've had panic attacks linked to my anxiety disorder many times, but what you describe doesn't sound like them to me. It possibly sounds like either low blood pressure, as Crimson suggested, or maybe low blood sugar.

It's difficult to say though, and if it happens again it might be worth running it past your GP for an opinion.

I recently had a low blood sugar episode while I was out walking. I felt really faint and as though I was going to collapse at any minute. I managed to make it home and wolfed down some cereal to get my sugar levels up again and I was fine after that.
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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #451 on: May 21, 2020, 12:28:24 AM »
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Offline kennedy81

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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #452 on: July 12, 2020, 09:50:29 PM »
Hope everyone is doing well lately. I had a rough March/April then things started to pick up. I had been learning more abut anxiety and depression and using mindfulness and occasional short meditations, which worked surprisingly well, along with daily walks and better eating/sleeping habits.
But as things got better, I got lazy and fell into old routines. With the shitty weather I hadn't been taking my daily walks for example and my sleeping habits became very erratic again which is never good. I think a lot of it is just wanting everything to be 'normal' again and not have to work constantly at dealing with my anxiety and depression. But I'm finding that even when things are seemingly ok, it's still wise to keep tabs on it and stick to the habits that were helping.
A few days ago I got worried about my cat being ill, and it triggered some bad anxiety which I hadn't had for a couple of months. Some meditating this evening has been helping just getting things in perspective again but I suppose it's an ongoing process. I know it will pass, and trying to understand how anxiety works I find helps a lot, as it gives me a sense of some control over it. It can be a right bastard though, the way it can creep up on you like that.

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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #453 on: July 12, 2020, 10:17:08 PM »
Today I was out in a butcher picking up food. Grabbed a 5k bag of potatoes and a big box of chicken breasts. The girl working there asked me did I want to leave some stuff as it seemed heavy. I checked the weight on things, and myself being used to lifting weights to keep fit, I felt absolutely fine with it. As I walked outside, I suddenly felt weird and my equilibrium shifted. I suddenly lurched to the side, and the chicken went flying. Smashed and spilled all over the asphalt. As I stood up, I felt my balance off and started walking like a crab sideways to try to right myself. Couldn't stand up straight for about 10 seconds or so. Fucking weird, but I've read that anxiety could potentially trigger things like this? Anyone else with a similar experience.
You might have needed hydration, or it could be low blood pressure. These can cause someone to feel light-headed or dizzy.

Not what you have, but to give you an example...after I had my heart valve repaired I feel great 98% of the time. But if I get up suddenly from a chair, or try to carry something heavy for over approx 10 seconds I get very light-headed and my heart will race. I also can't jog. It's because in those specific types of moments my valve opening isn't big enough anymore to rush enough fresh blood out into my body. No biggie, as I've adjusted to avoid those situations whenever possible.

You don't quite have my issue, but circumstances do point to a lack of blood getting out of your heart quickly enough and to your head. The likely easy solution is to make sure you drink more water every day. Make sure your urine is clear. It will get your blood pressure up to a more stable level. I bet you won't have it happen again.
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Offline Marty 85

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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #454 on: July 14, 2020, 01:07:03 AM »
Today I was out in a butcher picking up food. Grabbed a 5k bag of potatoes and a big box of chicken breasts. The girl working there asked me did I want to leave some stuff as it seemed heavy. I checked the weight on things, and myself being used to lifting weights to keep fit, I felt absolutely fine with it. As I walked outside, I suddenly felt weird and my equilibrium shifted. I suddenly lurched to the side, and the chicken went flying. Smashed and spilled all over the asphalt. As I stood up, I felt my balance off and started walking like a crab sideways to try to right myself. Couldn't stand up straight for about 10 seconds or so. Fucking weird, but I've read that anxiety could potentially trigger things like this? Anyone else with a similar experience.

Maybe vertigo if you're balance went. My da occasionally suffers from it and it takes him off his feet.


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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #455 on: July 14, 2020, 05:31:18 AM »
Hi all, I've rarely posted on this site over the past two years or more as, like many others, I've been going through a bit of a dark patch myself. Oddly enough, it was when talking to the Doc about one of my soldiers (yes, I'm in the Army), that he asked how I was doing and we had a little chat, ten minutes later I'm a gibbering wreck and on my way to the psychologist. Cutting a long story short I ended up going to counselling, something that only happens to other people I thought, and after being identified as depressed, anxious and with a bit of PTSD thrown in for good measure now find myself a true advocate for counselling. After attending about ten counselling sessions I now find myself being fairly proactive in advertising the available mental health services to all. Since that initial step, I have since presented for further counselling after realising I was once again heading to a dark place. The 'so what' out of all that is, for anyone going through any kind of depression, anxiety or other mental health please just make that step to seek assistance, there are a lot of highly trained professional people out there who have dedicated their life to helping you, there is no stigma.

I'd also like to touch on the advice provided by Son of Spion, bloody hell he talks some sense and provides some great advice on this matter, particularly in relation to the anxiety and IR issues. I was really interested in Crimson's post and the response to him, I'm sure there are a lot of people on here who can relate to what he's going through, I know I can. What is also very interesting is, as individuals, how we manage and cope with these anxieties, some accepting it as normal life, others attempting to fight or manage it either formally or informally. I have a method (not really mine but its what I use) that is based on training I have received throughout my career, it concentrates on the Mission Analysis Process (MAP), I'll attempt in trying to explain it, not that it's difficult it's just that I may not articulate it adequately.

In the majority of activities we face, be that large or small scale, we conduct a plan. The finality of this plan will result in you and/or your team choosing a Course of Action (COA) that enables you to successfully achieve your aim. Whilst producing this plan, either in your head or on paper/computer, you will identify and analyse a number of possible COAs, the most likely, the most dangerous and your preferred. By reviewing these COAs you are mentally preparing yourself to address them all, you are also able to think of strategies or mitigation's to counteract the bad things that could prevent you from achieving mission success. Inadvertently this is something we all do in our everyday life, be that going to the shops, going into battle or like Crimson, going to Anfield for the first time. I'm convinced that this MAP malarkey is a natural occurrence, we just sometimes don't realise it and in some cases we get stuck with the most dangerous COA, not being aware that in the majority of cases there is another strategy or option available that will either counteract or avoid it. To think of bad things should not always be perceived as a negative, it should be accepted as the norm and used to our advantage and as Son of Spion alludes to "Make room for it".

I don't really know what I wanted to achieve by submitting this post and as I read back through it I was in half a mind to delete it, I hope it makes sense and is deemed as helpful to others. All I know is that by understanding the MAP and its benefits, I can, in the majority of cases address and mitigate a number of anxieties when they raise their ugly head. When I can't and it starts to get a little too much that's when I step forward and seek assistance through counselling, I can't recommend it highly enough.                   
« Last Edit: July 14, 2020, 05:35:35 AM by BSBW »
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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #456 on: July 14, 2020, 12:23:51 PM »
Hi BSBW,

I'm really glad you didn't delete your post.

It's always good to read about how individual people have learned how to work through things. What gets us through difficulties can be highly individual. Not everyone reacts the same, so the trick is to work out which approach works best for us as individuals then employ it. It doesn't really matter where we draw our inspiration from. It's about being holistic and pragmatic. Looking at different things, identifying what helps, then using it.

Your post also helps dispel the myth that only a 'certain type' of person seeks counselling. Thankfully, that attitude is fading, and the value of good mental health is being recognised more and more now. All counselling does is give a person a non-judgemental space in which to talk through their issues and, hopefully, come to their own conclusions as to how they proceed. It basically helps people get in touch with and recognise their inner resources and strengths. It also helps to normalise the fears, anxieties and difficulties we all face at some point or other.  We often think it's only us who are struggling, but the facts are that everyone struggles at some time or other. Some just mask it better than others.

I've never worried about stigma as far as mental health is concerned. When I've needed help, I've asked for it. Just as I'd go to a doctor/hospital if I had a physical injury, I'm quite content to access help when I struggle psychologically too. Sadly, a lot of people have denied themselves such help and support in the past due to the perceived stigma but, thankfully, things are getting better in that department these days. People like your good self advocating the benefits of mental health support helps this even further.

Thank you for your kind comments on my posts on this subject. I've struggled with mental health issues all my life. I've never known a time in my life without mental health problems, even as a very young child. My own struggles and my own efforts to deal with them eventually saw me develop an interest in helping others too, if I can. There is a bit of the 'Wounded Healer' in most of us counsellors I think. Knowing what it's like to be wounded ourselves, so wanting to help others who are wounded too.

I like the MAP method you employ. It's different to how I (think I) approach things, but as I said earlier, it's all about finding what resonates with you personally. All approaches are only theories, and no approach suits everyone. We just have to explore and find what helps us individually.

Something I find lovely in your post is the humility. The willingness to acknowledge that we can never know everything, no matter how old we are, and we can always learn. In counselling, we often learn things about ourselves. The counsellor doesn't teach anyone anything about themselves. The client arrives there themselves by being willing to go there. It takes a little humility to accept we don't know everything about ourselves, and it takes courage to look inside ourselves and learn. People willing to look inside and learn are a lot stronger than they think they are.

Anyway, I will stop there before I write yet another essay.  :)

I'll just say that I wish you all the very best in everything you do.

« Last Edit: July 14, 2020, 12:27:33 PM by Son of Spion* »
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Offline kennedy81

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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #457 on: July 15, 2020, 09:20:55 PM »
....                 
Great post and thanks for taking time to write it, much appreciated.

Quote
To think of bad things should not always be perceived as a negative, it should be accepted as the norm and used to our advantage and as Son of Spion alludes to "Make room for it".

This is an interesting point and maybe relates to a couple of things I came across recently. I heard a therapist on youtube suggest that it can be an idea to sort of 'befriend' your depression or anxiety and see it as your body's way of telling you that some changes in your behaviour or thinking might be in order. I heard a Buddhist monk suggest something similar too. To treat your negative emotions with compassion rather than with bitterness and frustration.

I've had issues for many years but they've really came to the fore in recent months, and the last few days have been bad. Today I've been quite weepy and just feeling overwhelmed. I forced myself out for a walk this evening and I feel a bit better now, so I think I can relax for the evening and take it from there.
 
I decided today to see a doctor tomorrow, and hopefully start seeing a therapist or counsellor of some sort. I've been learning a lot about mental health in recent months, but sometimes all that info can just feel overwhelming and I think sitting down with a professional will be helpful, if even just to come up with a practical course of action.
I've no issues with stigma or embarrassment, like Son of Spion says, it's a health issue, and it's best to get help with it and just get some sound advice. I had been playing with the idea of online self help courses, but I'm just not organised enough to get the best out of such methods. I'm sure having a fresh perspective on my situation that a therapist can bring, will be invaluable too.

I tend to be quite up and down, and unfortunately when I start feeling ok, I tend to neglect doing the things that were helping and so I relapse back into it. I'm learning all the time I suppose, so I'm not beating myself up over it. We learn as we go and like Klopp says, we learn more from the bad games.
I'm actually quite looking forward to seeing a therapist. Even though this can be horrible on the bad days, it's strangely fascinating how the mind works too and I feel I'm learning useful things that will benefit me through life, even during the good times. 'Stress related growth' I've heard this described as. I like this idea, it gives me encouragement going forward that some good can come from these negative experiences.

Son of Spion, thanks for your posts also. They're always insightful and very beneficial. Much appreciated.

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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #458 on: July 15, 2020, 10:50:58 PM »


I resonate with a lot of that. I've been thinking a lot over the past few days of doing the same. I think some of it is tied to being stuck in the house too much, working from home, with my own thoughts. But there has been shit I've been pushing back for years and I don't want to end another year in the same position.

I'm no expert but I'm pretty confident I know what my issues are but I'm too lazy to change them, without someone putting a structure in place for me.

I've been reading a book called 'Transcend: The New Science of Self-Actualization' which is full of so much wisdom. It referenced one study that found psycho therapy is 32 times more cost effective at increasing happiness than money. Seems like a no brainer.


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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #459 on: July 15, 2020, 11:54:35 PM »
Thanks for the comments, Kennedy81.
If you do have counselling/therapy I hope you get a lot out of it.

All the best.  :)
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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #460 on: July 18, 2020, 02:28:21 AM »
Maybe vertigo if you're balance went. My da occasionally suffers from it and it takes him off his feet.


I know I left that post ages ago, and forgot about it to be honest, but thanks to everyone who responded with their advice or what they thought it was. I haven't really had a recurrence since. Not with the balance thing, but have had that sensation of rapid descent in my head if that makes sense, followed by what I can only describe as a slight onset of panic, but quickly brought it under heel. I think it could be vertigo, because when I've experienced this, it's been from starting at a TV screen. I actually got a bit of it, and some motion sickness, playing a computer game The Last of Us 2, which was weird, but not unique, as I'd had motion sickness from playing a game on the PS2 a long time ago. The brain is a strange and mad thing at times.

I think I'll say it again, but there's some absolutely fantastic people that post in this thread, and the thread itself (and the depression one) is amazing for those who suffer, or for people like myself, just curious or in need of information about more trivial, but still somewhat potentially serious problems or issues. I think the two threads should be stickied.

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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #461 on: July 18, 2020, 02:53:52 AM »
I just remembered an old resource I used to use. I know I've said this a few times, but I think it can be useful to sift through any resource you can find just to see if there is anything in there that resonates with you. If so, just adopt it and make it your own. It doesn't matter how big or small, how trivial or profound. Improvements are made by a series of small steps.

Anyway, there may or may not be something useful in this resource on anxiety. https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/anxiety.htm

Links to different issues.  https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/problems.htm

Links to potential solutions.  https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/solutions.htm
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 03:01:20 AM by Son of Spion* »
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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #462 on: July 19, 2020, 09:35:38 PM »
Anyone tried CBD oil to help with general/social anxiety?

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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #463 on: August 1, 2020, 08:21:09 PM »
Anyone tried CBD oil to help with general/social anxiety?
No, but I'd be curious to hear some insights too.

I went to the doc last week, told him about the anxiety and depression problems I've been having. We had a bit of a chat, he didn't really tell me anything I didn't know already (get out more, meet some new people etc).
He gave me a prescription for Lyrica and said I could take one when I feel the anxiety coming on. I went home and looked up the possible side effects.
"may cause suicidal thoughts", among a load of other unpleasantries. I know these are worst case side-effects but fuck that, I won't be taking them.

I have to go back in a couple of weeks to get my bloods taken. I haven't been feeling too bad lately, just a bit fragile at times. Making sure I get my walk in every day and watching my diet. Today I could feel the anxiety creeping up on me again and have been doing my best to just go with the flow and not let it get me down.
I need to start looking at therapists too. I was going to wait until the result from my blood tests come back, but would really like to talk to someone soon.
Does anyone have any advice on what to look for in a therapist, or is it a case of just trying one out and hoping to get a good fit?
Hope everyone's been doing ok.


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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #464 on: August 2, 2020, 07:19:57 PM »
No, but I'd be curious to hear some insights too.

I went to the doc last week, told him about the anxiety and depression problems I've been having. We had a bit of a chat, he didn't really tell me anything I didn't know already (get out more, meet some new people etc).
He gave me a prescription for Lyrica and said I could take one when I feel the anxiety coming on. I went home and looked up the possible side effects.
"may cause suicidal thoughts", among a load of other unpleasantries. I know these are worst case side-effects but fuck that, I won't be taking them.

I have to go back in a couple of weeks to get my bloods taken. I haven't been feeling too bad lately, just a bit fragile at times. Making sure I get my walk in every day and watching my diet. Today I could feel the anxiety creeping up on me again and have been doing my best to just go with the flow and not let it get me down.
I need to start looking at therapists too. I was going to wait until the result from my blood tests come back, but would really like to talk to someone soon.
Does anyone have any advice on what to look for in a therapist, or is it a case of just trying one out and hoping to get a good fit?
Hope everyone's been doing ok.
I'd not heard of Lyrica so had to look it up. Seems it's the marketing name of Pregabalin, which I do know, and can be prescribed for Generalised Anxiety Disorder.

It's absolutely your decision to take them or not, and I can understand your concerns. Drugs do all come with potential side effects, so we have to decide for ourselves if the potential pay off is worth it.

I have lifelong Social Anxiety Disorder and Depression as well as a few other psychological issues to deal with and anti-depressants pretty much saved my life, but yes, there are drawbacks to taking them but, for me, the pay off is worth it. I used to be on Escitalopram and now Sertraline, and it's certainly the case that I felt absolutely horrible on them initially. I felt quite a bit worse before I felt more stable and generally better about things. Once more stable, it was easier to do the work on my issues that was and still is necessary, via therapy.

The potential for increased suicidal thinking is certainly there initially, but it's not inevitable and if it does happen at least now you are aware of the risk and the fact it eases off in the vast majority of cases, you could maybe be willing to ride it out if you did go on the meds?

I always think careful consideration needs to be taken before going on these meds. I was in a desperate situation, so I was prepared to try anything really. Others have to make their own mind up and research the risk factors themselves.

You ask about what to look for in a therapist. First off, I'd suggest you look at what kind of therapy you actually want and feel would suit you the best. There are a number of different approaches to consider. CBT is pushed as the way to go these days, but it doesn't suit everyone. If you want to look at the way you think and ways of changing how you think, then CBT could be for you. It isn't so much interested in feelings though, so if you were looking to talk about your feelings first and foremost, then Person Centred Counselling would be a better option. PCC does not direct you though, so if you are looking to be given strategies, maybe CBT is the way to go afterall.

Bottom line, though, is that regardless of what therapy is the flavour of the month at the moment, no approach has ever been proven superior to the rest by research. The truly important factor has always been found to be the quality of the client/therapist relationship.

I've had PC Counselling, CBT and Solution Focused Brief Therapy, and although they have slightly different approaches, I've been able to take useful bits from all of them to utilise day to day. My own favourite is Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) simply because that approach resonates with me the most.

So anyway, I'd just do a little bit of online research on therapeutic approaches and see which you feel suits your needs best. After that, it's a case of seeing if you gel with the therapist you do eventually see. In the last place I counselled we had a number of counsellors, so I always said to my clients from the start that if they ever felt they couldn't gel wit me personally, just say so and I could out them onto another counsellor. A good therapist/client relationship means everything really, but you only really get a feel for how it's going as the sessions progress.

Right, I wish you all the best. Take care of yourself.
« Last Edit: August 2, 2020, 07:25:30 PM by Son of Spion* »
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Offline kennedy81

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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #465 on: August 2, 2020, 10:22:38 PM »
I'd not heard of Lyrica so had to look it up. Seems it's the marketing name of Pregabalin, which I do know, and can be prescribed for Generalised Anxiety Disorder.

It's absolutely your decision to take them or not, and I can understand your concerns. Drugs do all come with potential side effects, so we have to decide for ourselves if the potential pay off is worth it.

I have lifelong Social Anxiety Disorder and Depression as well as a few other psychological issues to deal with and anti-depressants pretty much saved my life, but yes, there are drawbacks to taking them but, for me, the pay off is worth it. I used to be on Escitalopram and now Sertraline, and it's certainly the case that I felt absolutely horrible on them initially. I felt quite a bit worse before I felt more stable and generally better about things. Once more stable, it was easier to do the work on my issues that was and still is necessary, via therapy.

The potential for increased suicidal thinking is certainly there initially, but it's not inevitable and if it does happen at least now you are aware of the risk and the fact it eases off in the vast majority of cases, you could maybe be willing to ride it out if you did go on the meds?

I always think careful consideration needs to be taken before going on these meds. I was in a desperate situation, so I was prepared to try anything really. Others have to make their own mind up and research the risk factors themselves.

You ask about what to look for in a therapist. First off, I'd suggest you look at what kind of therapy you actually want and feel would suit you the best. There are a number of different approaches to consider. CBT is pushed as the way to go these days, but it doesn't suit everyone. If you want to look at the way you think and ways of changing how you think, then CBT could be for you. It isn't so much interested in feelings though, so if you were looking to talk about your feelings first and foremost, then Person Centred Counselling would be a better option. PCC does not direct you though, so if you are looking to be given strategies, maybe CBT is the way to go afterall.

Bottom line, though, is that regardless of what therapy is the flavour of the month at the moment, no approach has ever been proven superior to the rest by research. The truly important factor has always been found to be the quality of the client/therapist relationship.

I've had PC Counselling, CBT and Solution Focused Brief Therapy, and although they have slightly different approaches, I've been able to take useful bits from all of them to utilise day to day. My own favourite is Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) simply because that approach resonates with me the most.

So anyway, I'd just do a little bit of online research on therapeutic approaches and see which you feel suits your needs best. After that, it's a case of seeing if you gel with the therapist you do eventually see. In the last place I counselled we had a number of counsellors, so I always said to my clients from the start that if they ever felt they couldn't gel wit me personally, just say so and I could out them onto another counsellor. A good therapist/client relationship means everything really, but you only really get a feel for how it's going as the sessions progress.

Right, I wish you all the best. Take care of yourself.
Thanks for that mate, really appreciate you taking the time to post.
Yeah, I'd like to try some therapy types first, but I wouldn't rule out medication if I ever feel it's necessary. I know it's helped a lot of people massively and it would be foolish to write off an option that could prove beneficial at some stage.
I had been looking into CBT which I think could help a lot. Having a program and some structure might be really helpful to me I think. Lack of structure and organisation is something I've always struggled with and I think it's just been catching up with me and could be at the root of a lot of my problems.
ACT looks really interesting too. Like you say, there's probably lots I can take from each of these methods. It's encouraging to know there are options out there with people like yourself so willing to help. I'm quite looking forward to seeing someone and making a start on it. I know I'll have to be patient though. There's unlikely to be a quick fix here, but I remain hopeful. Thanks again.

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Re: Anxiety
« Reply #466 on: August 3, 2020, 12:03:40 AM »
Thanks for that mate, really appreciate you taking the time to post.
Yeah, I'd like to try some therapy types first, but I wouldn't rule out medication if I ever feel it's necessary. I know it's helped a lot of people massively and it would be foolish to write off an option that could prove beneficial at some stage.
I had been looking into CBT which I think could help a lot. Having a program and some structure might be really helpful to me I think. Lack of structure and organisation is something I've always struggled with and I think it's just been catching up with me and could be at the root of a lot of my problems.
ACT looks really interesting too. Like you say, there's probably lots I can take from each of these methods. It's encouraging to know there are options out there with people like yourself so willing to help. I'm quite looking forward to seeing someone and making a start on it. I know I'll have to be patient though. There's unlikely to be a quick fix here, but I remain hopeful. Thanks again.
You're welcome.

You sound like you are taking a sensible approach to things. Meds absolutely have their place, but I think it wise to explore other avenues first whenever possible. They all have their side effects and they can also be difficult to get off once you're on them, so meds as a first option is often not the wisest choice.

Personally, I needed the level of stability I gained from them before I could really address my own issues, but that was just me, and I'd tried other avenues long before I eventually went on meds.

I think going straight onto meds can often be like putting the cart before the horse, but they are a potentially helpful back-up if it turns out that more than therapy is needed. Having therapy first certainly puts the horse before the cart, if you see what I mean.

It's good that you have a good idea of your own therapeutic needs, and that will help you work.out the best fit approach-wise. Whatever model you go with there will always be useful things to adopt. I have an holistic, pragmatic approach where I take my inspiration from wherever I can find it. So, if something is useful to me, I adopt it. It doesn't really matter where I got it from. Use what helps and reject what doesn't, is a good way to go.

CBT or ACT both help you with structure. ACT works on helping you identify your values and working with them to restructure your actions. CBT is good for identifying unhelpful perceptions and thinking, restructuring them and moving forward in a practical sense.

I also like your realism. You don't expect quick fixes. That's really good, because so many people have ridiculously unrealistic expectations of therapy, and also meds, for that matter. Just see therapy like life. You learn as you go along. There is ups and downs along the way, and there is no end to getting to understand ourselves and our lives. Basically, we are all a work in progress until the day we pop our clogs. Always learning, always growing, always evolving. There is always something we can take and use from any experience and process.

I wish you all the very best with your therapy when you have it, and also the very best now and for the future.


« Last Edit: August 3, 2020, 12:05:17 AM by Son of Spion* »
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