Author Topic: Fury as the hostages sell stories  (Read 8956 times)

Offline claRED

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #40 on: April 9, 2007, 10:53:53 AM »
They are basically being used:
option 1: release official report that no-one believes anyway
option 2: let our brave boys n' girl tell they own story directly to the masses who gobble up the tabloid spin.  How awful the Iranians were to them, how they weren't in forbidden waters etc etc.

Except it will backfire as it usually does - bends the rules for political purposes, and makes a misery of the lives of the soldiers who decide to sell. I would guess they will lose more respect from colleague by selling than just going back to their posts?

Offline xavidub

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #41 on: April 9, 2007, 11:04:41 AM »
I don't think it will be long before we have the 'Faye Turney ate my hamster/cock/cocaine' stories coming out. The wonderful men and women of the tabloid press are probably rooting through her garbage at this very moment.
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Offline DannyD

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #42 on: April 9, 2007, 11:59:24 AM »
Which ships, where and when?

What national boundaries have been redrawn?

You were with them were you?

Reporters reporting from a warzone should have their copy checked - I can't see the problem with that.

They read from a statement - a lot of people do that in press conferences, particularly those not used to being in that situation

The USS Frigate Stark hit by two Iraq missiles fired from a Mirage F1 fighter on May 17th 1987 at 21.07 local time. 37 sailors died and 21 injured. Iraq claimed the ship had been 10 nautical miles inside the exclusion zone it had set up around Kharg Island (with US assistance) The US claimed they were 20 nautical miles out side the zone. After this the US controlled the seaways and anything going in or out was their baby, they changed the boundaries sea lanes and anything else they wished to do on the pretext of defending world shipping. Later they re-flagged any vessel they wished again to “ keep the sea lanes safe” not one Iranian ship or a ship with Iranian cargo was ever escorted by the US or British navy, not one Iranian vessel offered the chance to sail through the straights under the protection of the neutral Stars and Stripes.

In spite of the USA not being at war with either Iraq or Iran the USS Stark was on full alert but never fired a shot or got close to doing so. Strange then that after the Naval Inquiry the medals were tossed about like candy.
1 Navy Cross, ( Posthumously) 1 Silver Cross ( Posthumously), 11 Purple Hearts, 2 Meritorious Service Medals, 16 Navy Commendation Medals and an amazing 29 Navy Achievement Medals.


As Frisk says no problem with the security but the Army wanted to tell their story before it took place. it wasn't even Hearts and Minds, censorship no other name for it after Vietnam and a host of other fiascos the USA wanted to keep the lid on what was going back home to the folks. In the UK D notices were flying around Fleet Street like litter caught in a whirlwind

But who prepared the statement and wasn’t the confusion over answers given from the platform. Didn’t the brave Captain say there was a mock execution when they were first captured, but another sailor dismissed this and later the Captain withdrew the remarks. Was he reading from the script there I wonder, or did he make it up on his own?
« Last Edit: April 9, 2007, 12:39:11 PM by DannyD »
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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #43 on: April 9, 2007, 12:10:57 PM »
Quote
"The MoD understands that the story will come out eventually. By giving permission to sell their stories, the MoD has an element of control of what comes out." - Andy McNab of Bravo Two Zero

He'll advise them to write a book say they murdered 200 Iranians and ate their nuclear bombs and then gave themselves up so they could enter their base and shit plutonium into Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's office

Offline BIGdavalad

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #44 on: April 9, 2007, 12:23:18 PM »
The USS Frigate Stark hit by two Iraq missiles fired from a Mirage F1 fighter on May 17th 1987 at 21.07 local time. 37 sailors died and 21 injured. Iraq claimed the ship had been 10 nautical miles inside the exclusion zone it had set up around Kharg Island (with US assistance) The US claimed they were 20 nautical miles out side the zone. After this the US controlled the seaways and anything going in or out was their baby, they changed the boundaries sea lanes and anything else they wished to do on the pretext of defending world shipping. Later they re-flagged any vessel they wished again to “ keep the seal lanes safe” not one Iranian ship or a ship with Iranian cargo was ever escorted by the US or British navy, not one Iranian vessel offered the chance to sail through the straights under the protection of the neutral Stars and Stripes.

Since Saddam Hussein quickly apologised for the incident and promised to pay compensation to the families of the dead crewman and reperations to the US for the damage to the USS Stark, I'd have a shrewd guess on who was really at fault. I haven't ben able to find a single mention of an 'exclusion zone' in the Gulf - why on earth would the US ban sea traffic from one of the busiest stretches of water in the world?

Why would the US protect ships from a country who referred to them as the Great Satan and would have liked to see them all dead?

As Frisk says no problem with the security but the Army wanted to tell their story before it took place. it wasn't even Hearts and Minds, censorship no other name for it after Vietnam and a host of other fiascos the USA wanted to keep the lid on what was going back home to the folks. In the UK D notices were flying around Fleet Street like litter caught in a whirlwind

Really when you deploy with the Army censorship is tough. Considering how much of a major pain in the arse journalists are, they should be grateful to be there at all.

But who prepared the statement and wasn’t the confusion over answers given from the platform. Didn’t the brave Captain say there was a mock execution when they were first captured, but another sailor dismissed this and later the Captain withdrew the remarks. Was he reading from the script there I wonder, or did he make it up on his own?

I don't know, I wasn't there either.
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Offline BIGdavalad

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #45 on: April 9, 2007, 12:45:38 PM »
Quote
ARTHUR: FAYE SAVED ME
BRAVE COLLEAGUE GOT ME THROUGH MY KIDNAP HORROR
EXCLUSIVE: By Chris Hughes, Security Correspondent And Robert Stansfield 09/04/2007

FELLOW captive Faye Turney was instrumental in getting Arthur Batchelor through their terrifying 13-day kidnap ordeal, the 20-year-old said yesterday.

Arthur said his brave colleague, nicknamed Topsy, risked beatings from their cynical guards for whispering reassurances to him as he sat scared stiff and blindfolded on a boat after they were snatched at sea.

And he revealed that the hardest part of his nightmare in Tehran was when he was separated from mum-of-one Faye - who he said was like a big sister to him - and chucked into solitary confinement. Speaking of the day they were captured, able seaman Arthur said: "We were blindfolded on the long journey back to land and my whole body was tense...not knowing whether to expect a kick or a punch. It was horribly quiet.

"Topsy kept on whispering to make sure I was okay, she just reassured me that we were all together.

"It didn't matter to me if we lived or died, as long as we did it as a team.

"The guards got really aggressive whenever they heard us communicating. Topsy really put her neck on the line to make sure I was holding up."

That was the last time Arthur saw Faye for six days as they were both put in solitary. Guards tried to make Faye crack by cruelly telling her she was the last of the 15 being held captive.

But, speaking of the moment they were reunited, he told how he wept and begged the 26-year-old for a hug. Arthur said: "I missed Topsy most of all. I really love her, as a mum and a big sister. Not seeing her and not knowing if she was safe was one of the hardest parts of the whole thing.

"Then on the sixth day, when I was just about giving up hope, I was pulled from my bed in the early hours of the morning.

"They led me down a corridor and into a room, where I saw Topsy in a corner.

"I can't describe how that felt...just every emotion rolled into one. I ran up to her, threw my arms round her and cried like a baby.

"When I'd calmed down, she asked, 'Do you need another hug, a mother hug?' and I said, 'damn right'. She was just as pleased to see me because they'd told her I'd been sent home.

"Topsy said she'd always be there for me, to protect me and look after me.

"We asked to be put together in a cell, but the guards wouldn't have it. She had to stay on her own with a female minder." Arthur, of Plymouth, told how the group were given a stark choice - seven years in jail or seven days' captivity if they co-operated with Iran.

He said: "All I wanted was to get back to my family but I didn't want to let the side down by agreeing with the Iranians.

"I talked it through with Topsy and she wanted to get back to her husband Adam and daughter Molly. As the only woman, she'd been treated very badly and feared for her life as much as the rest of us. The thought of seeing her family again kept her going.

"And being with her gave me the boost that I needed." Arthur told of the moment he and his comrades were paraded on TV and forced to confess they had strayed into Iranian waters.

He said: "A guard was saying, 'smile, smile, smile for camera'. We felt it would help if we obliged.

"We were happy to see each other for the first time. But the genuine smiles lasted just minutes."

Arthur met Faye when he joined HMS Cornwall in January last year.

He said: "I look young, so I guess she wanted to look after me. She's a great woman, kind, generous, funny. She'd do anything for anyone. I've loads of respect for her as she's my senior but also a massive amount of love for her as my friend.

"She would always talk to us about her husband, who she also called Topsy, and Molly.

"She'd been interviewed by the BBC the day before our capture and was desperate to phone home to tell Molly mum was going to be on the telly."

Arthur is now planning a wild night out with his best friend Kate Wills. The 19-year-old is on holiday and missed his emotional return.

He said: "I was gutted to find out she was away, but it means it will be even more special when we do get together. I'm embarrassed to admit that drinking's what we do best."

In last week's Mirror, Kate described Arthur as her "Tarzan". But the modest sailor said: "I'm not quite king of the jungle. There are lots more braver people. We had a giggle about it. I suppose she'll expect me to live up to the nickname now."

IN a bizarre move Iran last night released more video footage of the captured British sailors. It showed them in tracksuits playing chess and table tennis and watching a football game on televison.



From today's Mirror - what a fucking whining little tart.
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Offline BIGdavalad

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #46 on: April 9, 2007, 12:51:24 PM »
Criticism of this from the Chief of the General Staff too:

The head of the Army, General Sir Richard Dannat, is understood to have banned all soldiers from selling their stories to the media.

It comes as criticism mounts over the decision to allow the 15 Royal Navy personnel held in Iran to sell stories.

Former Army commander Major General Patrick Cordingley told the BBC of the alleged ban, which the Ministry of Defence is yet to comment on.

The Royal Navy said it felt it was "appropriate" for stories to be sold.

Maj Gen Cordingley, commander of the Desert Rats during the 1991 Gulf War, said it was "unfortunate" that the MoD was "using" the Royal Navy personnel as "a propaganda tool".

He said he had been encouraged to hear that the head of the Army had sent out an order to say he would not allow Army personnel to do the same.

"Clearly he disapproved and was making clear this was not going to happen in his force," said the former Army commander.

Lord Heseltine, the former deputy prime minister and defence secretary, has called for an inquiry into the decision to allow the sale of stories.

However, the Royal Navy has defended its actions.

Royal Navy spokesman Captain Mark Windsor said a great deal of thought had gone into the decision, adding that after "all the factors" had been considered "we decided it was the appropriate thing to do".

Right to reply

Lieutenant Felix Carmen, who was among those held, has said he finds it "unsavoury" that his fellow captives are being paid to tell their story.

However, he said the public should not begrudge "anything that clarified any issues for the public and shows exactly how bad the ordeal was".

Similarly, Douglas Young, the chairman of the British Armed Forces Federation, told the BBC he also felt some unease about the payments involved, but stressed that it was fair to allow them a right to reply.

"There has been a lot of criticism of the MoD for there having been a prepared statement and so on, propaganda, and the only way of making clear its not propaganda is allow people just to tell their own story their own way," he said.

BBC
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Offline Armin

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #47 on: April 9, 2007, 12:56:33 PM »
It's a very bad move by the RN. Not only does it damage the reputation of the services it potentially endangers any personnel who find themselves captured in the future.
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Offline DannyD

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #48 on: April 9, 2007, 01:13:22 PM »
Since Saddam Hussein quickly apologised for the incident and promised to pay compensation to the families of the dead crewman and reperations to the US for the damage to the USS Stark, I'd have a shrewd guess on who was really at fault. I haven't ben able to find a single mention of an 'exclusion zone' in the Gulf - why on earth would the US ban sea traffic from one of the busiest stretches of water in the world?

Why would the US protect ships from a country who referred to them as the Great Satan and would have liked to see them all dead?

Really when you deploy with the Army censorship is tough. Considering how much of a major pain in the arse journalists are, they should be grateful to be there at all.

I don't know, I wasn't there either.

So there was a ship blown up by the Iraq's then, glad to see you acknowledge the point. Blame was on both sides but the crew of the Stark have to take the blame for not responding to alerts from AWAK’s and their own radar, but then they had seen so many “ friendly” Iraqi fighters another one didn’t create any fuss.

It was an EXCLUSION zone not a banned zone and I think you should read my post again the reason given by Regan was they were protecting the sea lanes. You may have to go into the CIA or another intelligence data base to get the facts on the USA helping the Iraq Navy, it was one of the now you see it now you don’t operations the USA is so good at, but while you are looking for a mention of an exclusion zone check out how much tonnage was lost by Iranian or ships carrying Iranian cargo  against the Iraqi figures and how many were turned back if they got through the Iraq shells the first time.

In effect, Mr Reagan was restating the 1980 Carter doctrine to defend the oil passage in the Gulf. Mr Carter's under-taking came after the Iranian capture of US diplomats in Iran and the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. In recent weeks, the US has stepped up its naval presence in the Gulf and offered escorting and other facilities to Gulf states in response to the acquisition by Iran of advanced Chinese surface-to-surface missiles
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1485812,00.html


But the great defender of democracy was neutral not part of it or so they told the world. Yet they armed Iraq and we now know through Oliver North the Iranians as well. They gave Iraq top draw intelligence material from their satellites hovering over the Gulf. It’s the hypocrisy of it all and the way the press lap it up and spit it out that should worry anyone who still holds to the desire for a free press.

Pain in the arss???? Well maybe Richard Dimbleby or Edward R Murrow would argue with that if they were still alive. Never have the press been so used and abused since before the Gulf Wars. A Fox News reporter of all people filed copy of interviews with US Marines waiting to go into action,, she told Frisk that all her stuff was segregated as positive and negative innocuous quotes like if its all about oil give them the extra dollars was blacked out, yet the gung ho! We are going to clean up this town was left in.

It got to a point that the favoured journalist were unrecognisable from the Army Staff reporters. He tells of several coming back from a routine yet deadly for the people of Iraq bombing exercise, where as usual no enemy fire was encountered, but on arrival back at base the base commander issues each and every one with a miniature Stars and Stripes saying “ you are warriors too”

More to the point was Captain courageous there?
« Last Edit: April 9, 2007, 01:39:09 PM by DannyD »
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Offline charlie farley

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #49 on: April 9, 2007, 01:13:34 PM »
I myself served in the RN, and in HMS Cornwall 92-94 (in the gulf).

Glad they come to no harm, but fear selling their stories will not go down to well with ship their mates (still out there), and the rest of the fleet? Could cause some animosity.

I can see most of them leaving the service in the near future tho'....

Just glad everyones OK ;)
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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #50 on: April 9, 2007, 01:17:05 PM »
Quote
In a free state there should be freedom of speech and thought.
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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #51 on: April 9, 2007, 01:22:00 PM »
I don't think it will be long before we have the 'Faye Turney ate my hamster/cock/cocaine' stories coming out. The wonderful men and women of the tabloid press are probably rooting through her garbage at this very moment.

I am waiting for the "I WAS BORN FRANK TURNEY" sex change stories.
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In a free state there should be freedom of speech and thought.
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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #52 on: April 9, 2007, 01:23:59 PM »
Absolutely disgusted. Obviously money means more to them than integrity.

Its one of those things that are in the "national interest".

I dont think they have done anything wrong, particularly as they have been given the green light by the government to completely disregard the Official Secrets act they signed.

Just seems to be the UK's response to Iran parading them on TV, the next shot in the propaganda war going on between the two if you like. Ahmadinejad made Blairs government look like utter pricks with his stage managed release. Face has to be saved somewhere....

Offline TipTopKop

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #53 on: April 9, 2007, 01:26:25 PM »
Yes, but is the information they are disclosing jeaporidising their colleagues in any way ? (operational/tactical/classified), or is the information critical of the UK's political stance or contrary to the objectives of the Royal Navy ? (i.e. does it contain "we have no right to be there, we're meddling too much in the region etc") ? if so, then sure, it's quite unacceptable.

However, if what is being said is mostly along the lines of 'I was terrified/petrified ' and 'I wasn't sure what's going to happen to us', then really, who cares ?.

(I'll happily admit I don't know much about any military code of conduct etc, so if I am missing something really obvious please feel free to point it out !)

Offline DannyD

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #54 on: April 9, 2007, 01:36:37 PM »
Its one of those things that are in the "national interest".

I dont think they have done anything wrong, particularly as they have been given the green light by the government to completely disregard the Official Secrets act they signed.

Just seems to be the UK's response to Iran parading them on TV, the next shot in the propaganda war going on between the two if you like. Ahmadinejad made Blairs government look like utter pricks with his stage managed release. Face has to be saved somewhere....

Insread of letting the whole thing drop off the front pages the powers that be keep shooting themselves in the foot, they look more and more desperate as the days go by, while Iran are having a right good laugh about it all.
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Offline BIGdavalad

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #55 on: April 9, 2007, 02:04:09 PM »
So there was a ship blown up by the Iraq's then, glad to see you acknowledge the point.

Who ever said there wasn't?

Blame was on both sides but the crew of the Stark have to take the blame for not responding to alerts from AWAK’s and their own radar, but then they had seen so many “ friendly” Iraqi fighters another one didn’t create any fuss.

The aircraft was seen by both the AWACs and by the crew of the Stark (on radar at least) and the aircraft was challenged by the Stark (challenge issued at 2209: "Unknown aircraft, this is U.S. Navy warship on your 078 for twelve miles. Request you identify yourself."). For some reason the radars on either the AWAC or the USS Stark didn't pick up the launch of the Exocets and so the Phalanx CIWS couldnn't be used to defend the ship from the missiles. I fail to see how the US can be to blame for anything?

It was an EXCLUSION zone not a banned zone and I think you should read my post again the reason given by Regan was they were protecting the sea lanes. You may have to go into the CIA or another intelligence data base to get the facts on the USA helping the Iraq Navy, it was one of the now you see it now you don’t operations the USA is so good at, but while you are looking for a mention of an exclusion zone check out how much tonnage was lost by Iranian or ships carrying Iranian cargo  against the Iraqi figures and how many were turned back if they got through the Iraq shells the first time.

You could also look at 200 ships in the region being attacked in three years. I can't find any mention of US ships or aircraft engaging either Iraqi or Iranian aircraft in the region to protect ships from the other side.

In effect, Mr Reagan was restating the 1980 Carter doctrine to defend the oil passage in the Gulf. Mr Carter's under-taking came after the Iranian capture of US diplomats in Iran and the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. In recent weeks, the US has stepped up its naval presence in the Gulf and offered escorting and other facilities to Gulf states in response to the acquisition by Iran of advanced Chinese surface-to-surface missiles
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1485812,00.html

So the US acted in their interests to defend their allies and trading partners in the Gulf. So what?

But the great defender of democracy was neutral not part of it or so they told the world. Yet they armed Iraq and we now know through Oliver North the Iranians as well. They gave Iraq top draw intelligence material from their satellites hovering over the Gulf. It’s the hypocrisy of it all and the way the press lap it up and spit it out that should worry anyone who still holds to the desire for a free press.

France and USSR armed Iraq far more than the US ever did (French missiles launched from French aircraft damaged the USS Stark). The US stopped selling arms to Iran after the Shah was overthrown in the 1970s.

Pain in the arss???? Well maybe Richard Dimbleby or Edward R Murrow would argue with that if they were still alive.

They can argue all they like - journos are a pain in the arse. They expect to be escorted everywhere by soldiers and then spend most of the time whinging.

Never have the press been so used and abused since before the Gulf Wars. A Fox News reporter of all people filed copy of interviews with US Marines waiting to go into action,, she told Frisk that all her stuff was segregated as positive and negative innocuous quotes like if its all about oil give them the extra dollars was blacked out, yet the gung ho! We are going to clean up this town was left in.

So what? No country on earth doesn't use the press for their own purposes.

It got to a point that the favoured journalist were unrecognisable from the Army Staff reporters. He tells of several coming back from a routine yet deadly for the people of Iraq bombing exercise, where as usual no enemy fire was encountered, but on arrival back at base the base commander issues each and every one with a miniature Stars and Stripes saying “ you are warriors too”

So the Yanks do very gay things, that's not exactly shocking.
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Offline volga_arnold

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #56 on: April 9, 2007, 03:19:31 PM »
All the tools of propaganda are being mobilised. It has now boiled down to one person's(or should that be country's) word over another's.

What I do know is we should not be anywhere remotely close to the borders - leave alone the possibility of us being in the region in the first place.

Incidentally, someone I know from church who's a professional soldier is being shipped off to Iraq. I thought Tony announced a troop withdrawl some weeks ago. Anyone care to explain ?
« Last Edit: April 9, 2007, 03:22:45 PM by volga_arnold »

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #57 on: April 9, 2007, 03:21:39 PM »
Quote
No country on earth doesn't use the press for their own purposes.


So what ? That doesn't make it right.

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #58 on: April 9, 2007, 03:43:48 PM »
Incidentally, someone I know from church who's a professional soldier is being shipped off to Iraq. I thought Tony announced a troop withdrawl some weeks ago. Anyone care to explain ?

1 Mech Bde is replacing 19 Lt Bde in Iraq, plus all the other troops finishing their six months who are being replaced (staff officers at MND(SE), Joint Helicopter Force, Force Protection units, Royal Navy (if they're not all crying in the Mirror about missing their fat mate) and RAF personnel). We're not taking everyone out of Iraq yet.
« Last Edit: April 9, 2007, 03:50:46 PM by BIGdavalad »
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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #59 on: April 9, 2007, 04:36:16 PM »

Whatever happened to The Official Secrets Act?
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Offline volga_arnold

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #60 on: April 9, 2007, 06:22:48 PM »
The Ministry of Defence has issued the following statement regarding the decision by the Royal Navy to allow the personnel who were seized by the Iranian authorities on 23 March 2007 to be allowed to receive payment for media interviews.

MoD

Service personnel must seek permission from the Chain of Command before speaking to the media. Queen’s Regulations for the Royal Navy allow personnel to retain fees paid to them for broadcasting, lecturing or writing for publication under certain circumstances and the Navy’s judgement was that in this particular instance this was such a case.

This decision has been taken as a result of exceptional media interest. It is a fact that the media have been making direct contact with the families and offering them significant sums of money – this is not something that the Navy and the MOD have any control over.

Quite aside from the ‘human interest story’ surrounding these individuals, there are also sensitive strategic issues in play. It was clear that the stories they had to tell were likely to have emerged via family and friends regardless of any decision the Navy took.

It was therefore decided to grant permission to speak to the media to those personnel that sought it, in order to ensure that the Navy and the MOD had sight of what they were going to say – as well as providing proper media support to the sailors and Marines in the same way as would have been the case in more ordinary circumstances.

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #61 on: April 9, 2007, 06:28:06 PM »
The Ministry of Defence has issued the following statement regarding the decision by the Royal Navy to allow the personnel who were seized by the Iranian authorities on 23 March 2007 to be allowed to receive payment for media interviews.

MoD

Service personnel must seek permission from the Chain of Command before speaking to the media. Queen’s Regulations for the Royal Navy allow personnel to retain fees paid to them for broadcasting, lecturing or writing for publication under certain circumstances and the Navy’s judgement was that in this particular instance this was such a case.

This decision has been taken as a result of exceptional media interest. It is a fact that the media have been making direct contact with the families and offering them significant sums of money – this is not something that the Navy and the MOD have any control over.

Quite aside from the ‘human interest story’ surrounding these individuals, there are also sensitive strategic issues in play. It was clear that the stories they had to tell were likely to have emerged via family and friends regardless of any decision the Navy took.

It was therefore decided to grant permission to speak to the media to those personnel that sought it, in order to ensure that the Navy and the MOD had sight of what they were going to say – as well as providing proper media support to the sailors and Marines in the same way as would have been the case in more ordinary circumstances.

I bet the pilot and co pilot of the Tornado that went down in Iraq during the Gulf War are kicking themselves over that. Or maybe in the interests of dignity and professionalism they declined the offer...
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Offline BIGdavalad

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #62 on: April 9, 2007, 06:48:46 PM »
The Ministry of Defence has banned personnel from selling their stories to the media until a review of the rules governing the issue is completed.

Defence Secretary Des Browne said the review was aimed at making rules consistent across the armed forces.

It follows a row after two Navy crew members held in Iran sold stories.

Leading Seaman Faye Turney sold her story to ITV1's Trevor Macdonald and the Sun newspaper - reportedly for a six-figure sum.

Some of the money received for the interview with Leading Seaman Turney will go to navy families.

Meanwhile Arthur Batchelor, 20, the youngest of the British sailors to be held captive, told the Daily Mirror about his "nightmare" at the hands of his captors and how he "cried like a baby" in his cell.

Politicians, former soldiers and some relatives of soldiers killed in Iraq last week have questioned the decision by the Royal Navy to allow the crew to sell their stories.

The mother of Eleanor Dlugosz - the 19-year-old army medic from Hampshire killed near Basra last week - did not criticise the crew, but said her daughter "wouldn't have wanted any monetary gain for herself" for serving in Iraq, "only perhaps donations to Royal British Legion".

Mr Browne said he recognised the dilemma faced by the Royal Navy.

"Should they refuse to give them permission to accept payment, recognising that some of them would find ways to tell their experiences anyway, without the support and advice of their service, and therefore with greater risk to themselves and crucially also at risk to operational security?

"Or should the navy accept that in this particular and exceptional case, and in the modern media environment, they should give permission for these young people to tell their story precisely in order to stay close to them but accepting the consequence of the potential payment involved?"

He said he hoped people would understand it had been "a very tough call" for the navy, but "all of those involved over the last few days recognised we have not reached a satisfactory outcome".

Until there was clear guidance for the future, no further service personnel would be allowed to talk to the media about their experiences in return for payment, he added.

Second Sea Lord Vice Admiral Adrian Johns defended the decision to allow the sale of stories.

"We thought it was very important indeed to let these people tell the story in their own words and through the media," he said.

'Unsavoury' sale

The crew returned to the UK on Thursday after 13 days in captivity

Both of the officers among the captives have said they do not plan to profit from the story.

Lieutenant Felix Carman, who was among those held, defended Leading Seaman Turney's decision to sell her story.

But he added that he found it "slightly unsavoury" that his fellow captives are being paid to tell their story.

He later told Sky News that it was a "shame" that the release of the sailors had coincided with the deaths of four UK service personnel in Iraq.

But, of Leading Seaman Turney, he said: "She has taken the money, she is safeguarding her daughter's future. I would like to see what the critics would do in a similar position."

The Sun newspaper has defended its decision to pay Leading Seaman Turney.

The paper's defence editor, Tom Newton-Dunn, who refused to reveal how much she was being paid, said: "She has a right to do this.

We are a free country. Faye has been through the most extraordinary ordeal, which is clearly graphically illustrated."

Two-week ordeal

In the Trevor Macdonald programme, to be broadcast at 2000 BST on Monday, she defends her decision to sell her story and says a percentage of the money will help the crew and families of HMS Cornwall.

"I was offered a hell of a lot of money for my story. I've not taken the biggest offer, I've gone down...because I wanted to speak to yourself and the Sun because I knew my point would be put across.

"I want everyone out there to know my story from my side, see what I went through," she told the programme.

She also said that there were times during her two-week ordeal when she cried herself to sleep.

Arthur Batchelor, 20, the youngest of the British sailors to be held captive, told the Daily Mirror: "A guard kept flicking my neck with his index finger and thumb. I thought the worst, we've all seen the videos. I was frozen in terror and just stared into the darkness of my blindfold."

BBC

Is someone actively thinking up ways of making us look like cocks now? This is a complete fucking joke.
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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #63 on: April 9, 2007, 07:11:47 PM »
Mr Browne said he recognised the dilemma faced by the Royal Navy.
He said he hoped people would understand it had been "a very tough call" for the navy, but "all of those involved over the last few days recognised we have not reached a satisfactory outcome".

Not much gets past our Des eh?  ::)

Arthur Batchelor, 20, the youngest of the British sailors to be held captive, told the Daily Mirror: "A guard kept flicking my neck with his index finger and thumb. I thought the worst, we've all seen the videos. I was frozen in terror and just stared into the darkness of my blindfold."

They flicked his neck  :o  Never!!!!!!!  The dirty, dirty, inhuman bastards.   No wonder he cwied and cwied, poor ickle lamb.  Those fellas on the Burma Railway never had to suffer brutality like that.   
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Offline BIGdavalad

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #64 on: April 9, 2007, 07:17:29 PM »
Not much gets past our Des eh?  ::)

Well you know Maggie, being Secretary of State for Defence is very much like making love to a beautiful woman. Firstly you have to save as much money as possible. Some toys may be introduced but you should always buy them as cheaply as possible. There should always be the smallest number of men involved as possible. Then you should penetrate them roughly from behind while convincing them you really care about them.

« Last Edit: April 9, 2007, 07:20:05 PM by BIGdavalad »
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Offline Harry_Wong

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #65 on: April 9, 2007, 07:23:32 PM »
The Ministry of Defence has banned personnel from selling their stories to the media until a review of the rules governing the issue is completed.

Defence Secretary Des Browne said the review was aimed at making rules consistent across the armed forces.

It follows a row after two Navy crew members held in Iran sold stories.
...
...and Iran releasing further video footage.

Did the MoD realise the risk of tall stories getting blown out of the water, or seperate accounts creating contradictions?

Seeking personal profit from being captured on duty and playing along with their captors is demoralising to their comrades, who would be expected to do everything in their power to avoid what the 15 'tea-drinking surrender-monkeys' have done.

A wiser move would have been to keep them out of the UK, allow their next of kin brief supervised access, release a holding statement from the senior officer and then seal them up in a de-brief for a week.

That should establish whether the active co-operation should be followed up as a disciplinary issue.

The MoD stepping from one rake to another, driven by 'exceptional media interest' and 'the modern media environment'.
« Last Edit: April 9, 2007, 07:27:29 PM by Harry_Wong »
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Offline El Campeador

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #66 on: April 9, 2007, 07:53:23 PM »
I am waiting for the "I WAS BORN FRANK TURNEY" sex change stories.

ROFL.  :lmao

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #67 on: April 9, 2007, 07:58:19 PM »
The Ministry of Defence has banned personnel from selling their stories to the media until a review of the rules governing the issue is completed.


this cock story is getting so big that will make Rocco proud of it!  How the hell they didnt review the consequences before issuing the go ahead on letting the chubby woman and her wimp friends selling their stories?  I think those kids in the pre school down the road would have handle this situation far better!
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Offline BCCC

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #68 on: April 9, 2007, 08:04:34 PM »
They flicked his neck  :o  Never!!!!!!!  The dirty, dirty, inhuman bastards.   No wonder he cwied and cwied, poor ickle lamb.  Those fellas on the Burma Railway never had to suffer brutality like that.   

Like Chinese water toture...

you drip... you drip.... you drip... you drip.... you drip....
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Offline DannyD

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #69 on: April 9, 2007, 08:29:35 PM »
BiIGDavalad ......

The aircraft was seen by both the AWACs and by the crew of the Stark (on radar at least) and the aircraft was challenged by the Stark (challenge issued at 2209: "Unknown aircraft, this is U.S. Navy warship on your 078 for twelve miles. Request you identify yourself."). For some reason the radars on either the AWAC or the USS Stark didn't pick up the launch of the Exocets and so the Phalanx CIWS couldnn't be used to defend the ship from the missiles. I fail to see how the US can be to blame for anything?


The loss of live for a start, the three Naval Inquiries were a collective whitewash and tell me which country doesn’t whitewash its mistakes especially when there are fatalities on their own side, but only America dishes out medals to the idiots and blames the innocent. Regan tore into Iran as if it was to blame for blocking the sea routes with convoys made up of flags of convenience and flotillas of warships. I could use your defence of the USA for Iran …… All Iran wanted to do was sell its oil what was wrong with that.eh?.


You could also look at 200 ships in the region being attacked in three years. I can't find any mention of US ships or aircraft engaging either Iraqi or Iranian aircraft in the region to protect ships from the other side.

227 attacks on merchant shipping between April 1984 and May 1987 137 by Iraq 90 by Iran
Shooting down doesn’t come much worse than  Iran Airbus IR635 shot out of the sky over the Gulf on the 3rd July 1988 by the USS Vincente using two heat seeking ship to air missiles killing 290 men woman and children. Of course like the Stark the good old USA tried to shift the blame onto Iran, this time they put it about that the pilot may have been on a suicide mission the US papers picked this up and so to its discredit did the Times of London, now owned by Murdoch. This wouldn’t wash as an Italian ship had stated the airliner was climbing not diving so the story changes again The Pentagon claimed the aircrafts commercial transponder was giving out the wrong signals the media then did a poor job at trying to make the Americans look like the victims inventing stories of suicide ships in the Gulf attacking the US Navy and a preposterous claim that a threat to assassinate the Captain of the USS Vincennes was made by Iran.

So the US acted in their interests to defend their allies and trading partners in the Gulf. So what?

But they were not at war with Iran so why did they disrupt this nations shipping? Against international maritime law the boarded ship after ship and in some cases turned it back around.

France and USSR armed Iraq far more than the US ever did (French missiles launched from French aircraft damaged the USS Stark). The US stopped selling arms to Iran after the Shah was overthrown in the 1970s.

Sorry but as Irangate clearly shows the US of A were selling arms to both sides, in the case of Iran using drug money from the Contra rebels in Columbia to do so. Once Saddam gave the order to invade Iran Regan used diverse methods to supply the Iraqi’s with top of the rage armoury. Before that the best intelligence was given to its partner in crime it even had high ranking intelligence agents teaching the Iraq army how to use the sophisticated software used on the tracker satellites.

They can argue all they like - journos are a pain in the arse. They expect to be escorted everywhere by soldiers and then spend most of the time whinging.

Oh! dear they get in the way do they like Frisk and John Snow of ITN who tried to tell the world what carnage was being committed in the name of freedom, and the top brass wanting to make it all look like a kids computer game.

So what? No country on earth doesn't use the press for their own purposes.

But it the ones who won’t bend the true journalists that the army couldn’t use and tried might and main to get them sent home. It is the shit ones who got the breaks and that was the news that hit our breakfast tables. If you don’t mind being lied to in the National Interest that’s your problem, me I want to know what’s going on in my name thank you.
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Offline MHLC

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #70 on: April 9, 2007, 08:33:12 PM »
Think you mean Robert Fisk? The again its quite possible the self publicising Anders Frisk could have passed comment on this international affair ;D

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #71 on: April 9, 2007, 08:43:11 PM »
They were taken hostage whilst serving their country and feared they would be excecuted.  If they can get £150,000 to tell the press what happened, then fair play to them.

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #72 on: April 9, 2007, 08:46:06 PM »
The loss of live for a start, the three Naval Inquiries were a collective whitewash and tell me which country doesn’t whitewash its mistakes especially when there are fatalities on their own side, but only America dishes out medals to the idiots and blames the innocent. Regan tore into Iran as if it was to blame for blocking the sea routes with convoys made up of flags of convenience and flotillas of warships. I could use your defence of the USA for Iran …… All Iran wanted to do was sell its oil what was wrong with that.eh?.

I still don't understand how an Iraqi aircraft launching a missile at a USN ship is the US' fault though?

227 attacks on merchant shipping between April 1984 and May 1987 137 by Iraq 90 by Iran
Shooting down doesn’t come much worse than  Iran Airbus IR635 shot out of the sky over the Gulf on the 3rd July 1988 by the USS Vincente using two heat seeking ship to air missiles killing 290 men woman and children. Of course like the Stark the good old USA tried to shift the blame onto Iran, this time they put it about that the pilot may have been on a suicide mission the US papers picked this up and so to its discredit did the Times of London, now owned by Murdoch. This wouldn’t wash as an Italian ship had stated the airliner was climbing not diving so the story changes again The Pentagon claimed the aircrafts commercial transponder was giving out the wrong signals the media then did a poor job at trying to make the Americans look like the victims inventing stories of suicide ships in the Gulf attacking the US Navy and a preposterous claim that a threat to assassinate the Captain of the USS Vincennes was made by Iran.

The attack on the Airbus is obviously what is known in the trade as a 'Bad Thing'. However, I can still find no reference to the US engaging Iraqi or Iranian aircraft to protect shipping from the other side.

But they were not at war with Iran so why did they disrupt this nations shipping? Against international maritime law the boarded ship after ship and in some cases turned it back around.

It's not against international law if the ship is suspected of breaking laws itself - since I have no idea why (or indeed if) the US was boarding Iranian ships, I can't really comment.

Sorry but as Irangate clearly shows the US of A were selling arms to both sides, in the case of Iran using drug money from the Contra rebels in Columbia to do so. Once Saddam gave the order to invade Iran Regan used diverse methods to supply the Iraqi’s with top of the rage armoury. Before that the best intelligence was given to its partner in crime it even had high ranking intelligence agents teaching the Iraq army how to use the sophisticated software used on the tracker satellites.

Top of the range weapons like T-55 and T-72 tanks (Soviet), Type 54 tanks (Chinese), MiG aircraft (Soviet), Mirage aircraft (French), Sukhoi aircraft (Soviet), Exocet missiles (French), Roland and Crotale SAMs (French), SA-3, -6, -8 and -9 SAMs (Soviet), AK-47/74 assault rifles (Soviet), SCUD SSMs (Soviet), Katyusha MLRS (Soviet) and RPGs (Soviet)? What weapons did the US actually supply to Iraq?

i]Oh! dear they get in the way do they like Frisk and John Snow of ITN who tried to tell the world what carnage was being committed in the name of freedom, and the top brass wanting to make it all look like a kids computer game.

Yes, frankly they get in the way. They have to be escorted everywhere, they put people at risk by not doing what they're told and they're generally whinging pains in the arse.
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Offline DannyD

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #73 on: April 9, 2007, 08:47:30 PM »
Think you mean Robert Fisk? The again its quite possible the self publicising Anders Frisk could have passed comment on this international affair ;D

sorry for the typo but you will find plenty of then from me..
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Offline BIGdavalad

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #74 on: April 9, 2007, 08:48:43 PM »
They were taken hostage whilst serving their country and feared they would be excecuted.  If they can get £150,000 to tell the press what happened, then fair play to them.

They're supposed to be serving personnel and they're supposed to have different standards to keep to. They should never have been allowed to profit from this whole fucking sorry debacle.
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Offline Graeme

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #75 on: April 9, 2007, 09:00:50 PM »
They're supposed to be serving personnel and they're supposed to have different standards to keep to. They should never have been allowed to profit from this whole fucking sorry debacle.

What standards?  They were the victims of an incident which sparked a big interest from the UK public and media, the latter of which have offered good sums of money for their stories.  £150,000 would buy a house so fair play to those who got cash.

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #76 on: April 9, 2007, 09:01:21 PM »
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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #77 on: April 9, 2007, 09:04:01 PM »
September, 1980. Iraq invades Iran. The beginning of the Iraq-Iran war. [8]

February, 1982. Despite objections from congress, President Reagan removes Iraq from its list of known terrorist countries. [1]

December, 1982. Hughes Aircraft ships 60 Defender helicopters to Iraq. [9]

1982-1988. Defense Intelligence Agency provides detailed information for Iraq on Iranian deployments, tactical planning for battles, plans for air strikes and bomb damage assessments. [4]

November, 1983. A National Security Directive states that the U.S would do "whatever was necessary and legal" to prevent Iraq from losing its war with Iran. [1] & [15]

November, 1983. Banca Nazionale del Lavoro of Italy and its Branch in Atlanta begin to funnel $5 billion in unreported loans to Iraq. Iraq, with the blessing and official approval of the US government, purchased computer controlled machine tools, computers, scientific instruments, special alloy steel and aluminum, chemicals, and other industrial goods for Iraq's missile, chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs. [14]

October, 1983. The Reagan Administration begins secretly allowing Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Egypt to transfer United States weapons, including Howitzers, Huey helicopters, and bombs to Iraq. These shipments violated the Arms Export Control Act. [16]

November 1983. George Schultz, the Secretary of State, is given intelligence reports showing that Iraqi troops are daily using chemical weapons against the Iranians. [1]

December 20, 1983. Donald Rumsfeld , then a civilian and now Defense Secretary, meets with Saddam Hussein to assure him of US friendship and materials support. [1] & [15]

July, 1984. CIA begins giving Iraq intelligence necessary to calibrate its mustard gas attacks on Iranian troops. [19]

January 14, 1984. State Department memo acknowledges United States shipment of "dual-use" export hardware and technology. Dual use items are civilian items such as heavy trucks, armored ambulances and communications gear as well as industrial technology that can have a military application. [2]

March, 1986. The United States with Great Britain block all Security Council resolutions condemning Iraq's use of chemical weapons, and on March 21 the US becomes the only country refusing to sign a Security Council statement condemning Iraq's use of these weapons. [10]

May, 1986. The US Department of Commerce licenses 70 biological exports to Iraq between May of 1985 and 1989, including at least 21 batches of lethal strains of anthrax. [3]

May, 1986. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade botulin poison to Iraq. [7]

March, 1987. President Reagan bows to the findings of the Tower Commission admitting the sale of arms to Iran in exchange for hostages. Oliver North uses the profits from the sale to fund an illegal war in Nicaragua. [17]

Late 1987. The Iraqi Air Force begins using chemical agents against Kurdish resistance forces in northern Iraq. [1]

February, 1988. Saddam Hussein begins the "Anfal" campaign against the Kurds of northern Iraq. The Iraq regime used chemical weapons against the Kurds killing over 100,000 civilians and destroying over 1,200 Kurdish villages. [8]

April, 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of chemicals used in manufacture of mustard gas. [7]

August, 1988. Four major battles were fought from April to August 1988, in which the Iraqis massively and effectively used chemical weapons to defeat the Iranians. Nerve gas and blister agents such as mustard gas are used. By this time the US Defense Intelligence Agency is heavily involved with Saddam Hussein in battle plan assistance, intelligence gathering and post battle debriefing. In the last major battle with of the war, 65,000 Iranians are killed, many with poison gas. Use of chemical weapons in war is in violation of the Geneva accords of 1925. [6] & [13]

August, 1988. Iraq and Iran declare a cease fire. [8]

August, 1988. Five days after the cease fire Saddam Hussein sends his planes and helicopters to northern Iraq to begin massive chemical attacks against the Kurds. [8]

September, 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade anthrax and botulinum to Iraq. [7]

September, 1988. Richard Murphy, Assistant Secretary of State: "The US-Iraqi relationship is... important to our long-term political and economic objectives." [15]

December, 1988. Dow chemical sells $1.5 million in pesticides to Iraq despite knowledge that these would be used in chemical weapons. [1]

July 25, 1990. US Ambassador to Baghdad meets with Hussein to assure him that President Bush "wanted better and deeper relations". Many believe this visit was a trap set for Hussein. A month later Hussein invaded Kuwait thinking the US would not respond. [12]

August, 1990 Iraq invades Kuwait. The precursor to the Gulf War. [8]

July, 1991 The Financial Times of London reveals that a Florida chemical company had produced and shipped cyanide to Iraq during the 80's using a special CIA courier. Cyanide was used extensively against the Iranians. [11]

August, 1991. Christopher Droguol of Atlanta's branch of Banca Nazionale del Lavoro is arrested for his role in supplying loans to Iraq for the purchase of military supplies. He is charged with 347 counts of felony. Droguol is found guilty, but US officials plead innocent of any knowledge of his crime. [14]

June, 1992. Ted Kopple of ABC Nightline reports: "It is becoming increasingly clear that George Bush Sr., operating largely behind the scenes throughout the 1980's, initiated and supported much of the financing, intelligence, and military help that built Saddam's Iraq into [an aggressive power]." [5]

July, 1992. "The Bush administration deliberately, not inadvertently, helped to arm Iraq by allowing U.S. technology to be shipped to Iraqi military and to Iraqi defense factories... Throughout the course of the Bush administration, U.S. and foreign firms were granted export licenses to ship U.S. technology directly to Iraqi weapons facilities despite ample evidence showing that these factories were producing weapons." Representative Henry Gonzalez, Texas, testimony before the House. [18]

February, 1994. Senator Riegle from Michigan, chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, testifies before the senate revealing large US shipments of dual-use biological and chemical agents to Iraq that may have been used against US troops in the Gulf War and probably was the cause of the illness known as Gulf War Syndrome. [7]

August, 2002. "The use of gas [during the Iran-Iraq war] on the battle field by the Iraqis was not a matter of deep strategic concern... We were desperate to make sure that Iraq did not lose". Colonel Walter Lang, former senior US Defense Intelligence officer tells the New York Times. [4]

This chronology of the United States' sordid involvement in the arming of Iraq can be summarized in this way: The United States used methods both legal and illegal to help build Saddam's army into the most powerful army in the Mideast outside of Israel. The US supplied chemical and biological agents and technology to Iraq when it knew Iraq was using chemical weapons against the Iranians. The US supplied the materials and technology for these weapons of mass destruction to Iraq at a time when it was know that Saddam was using this technology to kill his Kurdish citizens. The United States supplied intelligence and battle planning information to Iraq when those battle plans included the use of cyanide, mustard gas and nerve agents. The United States blocked UN censure of Iraq's use of chemical weapons. The United States did not act alone in this effort. The Soviet Union was the largest weapons supplier, but England, France and Germany were also involved in the shipment of arms and technology.
 

References:
1.   Washingtonpost.com. December 30, 2002
2.   Jonathan Broder. Nuclear times, Winter 1990-91
3.   Kurt Nimno. AlterNet. September 23, 2002
4.   Newyorktimes.com. August 29, 2002
5.   ABC Nightline. June9, 1992
6.   Counter Punch, October 10, 2002
7.   Riegle Report: Dual Use Exports. Senate Committee on Banking. May 25, 1994
8.   Timeline: A walk Through Iraq's History. U.S. Department of State
9.   Doing Business: The Arming of Iraq. Daniel Robichear
10.   Glen Rangwala. Labor Left Briefing, 16 September, 2002
11.   Financial Times of London. July 3, 1991
12.   Elson E. Boles. Counter Punch. October 10, 2002
13.   Iran-Iraq War, 1980-1988. Iranchamber.com
14.   Columbia Journalism Review. March/April 1993. Iraqgate
15.   Times Online. December 31, 2002. How U.S. Helped Iraq Build Deadly Arsenal
16.   Bush's Secret Mission. The New Yorker Magazine. November 2, 1992
17.   Grolier Multimedia Encyclopedia: Iran-Contra Affair
18.   Congressional Record. July 27, 1992. Representative Henry B. Gonzalez
19.   Bob Woodward. CIA Aiding Iraq in Gulf War. Washington Post. 15 December, 1986
20.   Case Study: The Anfal Campaign. www.gendercide.com

Selling arms before the war might have counted as fair trade in the disgusting arms race but once Iraq crossed into Iran it was the USA that armed it with everything it asked for, from weapons to intelligence sometimes using Saudi Arabia as a cover sometimes Kuwait, both gave billions of dollars to Iraq to " put and end to the Persians" In a bizarre  rebuff to Saddam, King Fahd detailed the cost to Saudi for backing him against Iran even down to the last 80 cents. The figure was $25,734,469,885- 80cents nearly $26bn US Dollars all for nothing. if you add Kuwaits and the Emirates and USA UK etc whar a waste of money. all they did was kiill millions of Islamist on both sides.
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Offline BIGdavalad

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #78 on: April 9, 2007, 09:06:22 PM »
What standards? 

Signing the Official Secrets Act for a start. Serving personnel aren't supposed to sell stories to the media (and someone has made us all look like cocks with the "yes they can, no they can't" all weekend) and they've made themselves and their service a launghing stock with their stories (I posted the one from the Mirror, apparently the one in the Scum and the interview (couldn't bring myself to watch it) with McDoughnut are just as bad) which can actually be an offence under Queen's Regs too...
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Offline Graeme

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Re: Fury as the hostages sell stories
« Reply #79 on: April 9, 2007, 09:10:19 PM »
Serving personnel aren't supposed to sell stories to the media

They were told they could by the MoD, so why hold it against them?