Author Topic: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©  (Read 53420 times)

Offline Ciara (with a capital "C")

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #440 on: March 12, 2014, 09:46:51 AM »
My fiancée took me on one of those Jack the Ripper tours of East London, around Shoreditch and Spitalfields - very interesting! The lady who took the tour works for the MET, and the BBC, researching Jack the Ripper. It was very interesting, she was incredibly knowledgeable on the subject but I got the impression that 'Jack The Ripper' was someone people were almost in awe of, rather than the fact he was a serial killer.

I can't wait to go back and read this thread!

EDIT: I haven't read this thread yet, but my initial reaction from being on the tour was 'Why weren't police officers under suspicion?' I don't know if it has been raised in this thread, but she didn't mention that possibility it could have been someone from the police force.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2014, 09:49:39 AM by Ciara (with a capital "C") »
JFT96.

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #441 on: March 12, 2014, 10:38:40 AM »
My fiancée took me on one of those Jack the Ripper tours of East London, around Shoreditch and Spitalfields - very interesting! The lady who took the tour works for the MET, and the BBC, researching Jack the Ripper. It was very interesting, she was incredibly knowledgeable on the subject but I got the impression that 'Jack The Ripper' was someone people were almost in awe of, rather than the fact he was a serial killer.

I can't wait to go back and read this thread!

EDIT: I haven't read this thread yet, but my initial reaction from being on the tour was 'Why weren't police officers under suspicion?' I don't know if it has been raised in this thread, but she didn't mention that possibility it could have been someone from the police force.

Worth looking at...  ;)

Scotland Yard are refusing to release 100+ year old files that would name 4 more suspects in case 'relatives are attacked'.

I find that very odd as the names of current suspects in a crime are released when there is MUCH more possibility of the relatives being targetted.

At the time of the Murders, there was a frenzy to catch the murderer - real panic on the streets.  The very worst possibility would be that the murderer was a Policeman.  Worse if Scotland Yard then conspired to keep that information from the public.  That would make sense as to why they would still be unwilling to release the files.

A beat copper would not only know the area, but also they could have approached any of the victims without suspicion.  They would know the locals and know the routine of the locals.

And, quite uniquely amongst suspects, if they were caught over the body holding the knife - they could say they had just discovered the body and knife.

Also, a Policeman with blood on his tunic can easily explain that away by having been involved in an altercation with a suspect.

Are there any in depth discussions into that possibility?

It's especially interesting because some of the murders were in the middle of a coppers 'beat', in one case I'm sure I read the frequency of hiim passing that spot (next to a warehouse, I think?) was 15 minutes.  Easy enough to murder the victim and then 'discover' her on the next 'round'.  He'd also know the routine of other beat coppers in the area.

No one would search a Policeman for a weapon, no one would really look too closely at the Police themselves.  The PC would then either have been sent back to the station (to clean up - he's got blood on his uniform because he discovered the body) or sent on house-to-house inquiries.  In the confusion following the discovery of the body, it would be very easy for him to slip away and come back if needed.

If the Police did suspect one of their own and put them on desk duties, or transferred them elsewhere (where other murders continued?) it would be extremely embarrassing, no matter the length of time that has passed.

There's certainly no harm in having a few theories knocking around, is there?  :)

IF one of the letters to the Central News Agency was genuine, presumably a Policeman would know about them and their reporters, and know the letter would be distributed more widely than just to one newspaper.

Certainly it's not beyond the realms of possibility that at least one Policeman at the time would hate the world he was working in and wanted to draw attention to it?

Reading the forums is fascinating, but highlights why the mystery will never be definitively solved.  There could be incontravertable evidence and some of the 'bigwigs' would tear it to shreds!

The problem is that people (like you say) are looking for the cleverest answer, rather than a simple explanation.

Anyway, moving on to the Policeman theory again, it's interesting from the Catherine Eddowes inquest testimony of PC Edward Watkins and Kearley & Tonge Nightwatchman George Morris:

Watkins - I ran across the road to Messers Kearley & Tonge, the door was ajar, I pushed it open.

Morris - The door was knocked or pushed. I was about 2 yards from the door. I turned around and opened the door wide and saw Constable Watkins. He said "For Gods sake mate, come to my assistance". I said "Stop till I get my lamp".

Whilst Morris looked for his lamp, Watkins noted the time as 1.45am by his own watch. Inquest testimony continues: -

Morris - I immediately went outside. I said "What's the matter?". "Oh dear" he said "there's another woman cut to pieces". I said "Where is she?". He said "In the corner". I went over to the corner and shewed my light on the body.

Morris then blew upon his whistle and immediately left the Square to look for help via Mitre Street, heading towards Aldgate. Watkins stayed with the body, conducting a brief inspection best he could under the poor lighting conditions. He noted that her clothing was filthy and, upon her chemise, he also noted bloody fingermarks.

PC Edward Watkins remained with Eddowes until the arrival of City PCs James Harvey (964), Holland (814) and latterly Dr George Sequeira

By 1896 PC Watkins had retired. In 1901 he was living at Rush Green, Beacontree Heath Road, Romford, Essex with his wife and a servant, 54 year old Jessie Fowler of Hull.


I find it odd that he 'ran' across the road to check a door that was ajar when he knew the Warehouse had a nightwatchman.  Watkins did state that it was not unusual for the door to be ajar at that time of night

I find it extremely odd that he only asked for help AFTER Morris, the nightwatchman found him (there's no idea there how long PC Watkins was with the body - although Morris' movements were apparently very well known)

I also find it very odd that it was Morris (according to testimony) blew his whistle and raised the alarm, rather than PC Watkins.  Watkins was left with the body, and had plenty of time to set the scene or hide evidence.

Also, it appears Watkins had previous for having naughty-goings-on whilst on duty (many years before - but how often would these women come forward to complain?)

Watkins appears to be very much dismissed as a suspect, but doesn't the testimony seem very odd?

I suppose that's the thing; if it had been a Policeman and that information had been released, there would have been a riot.  Police would have been attacked - I imagine they would have feared anarchy on the streets.   The East End at that time was often described as a Powder Keg waiting to blow.  In a way trying to cover it up could have been an understandable decision.

It would explain why, even after 100+ years Scotland Yard would not still want to release files that show they weren't above a cover up.  I think the fact they won't release the files is indicative of something they would want to keep quiet.  If it was also about informants names (as they also claim) then they could easily redact the names from the files.

Lord Roger - your arguments are based on the idea PC Watkins wouldn't know the routine of his fellow officers - of course he would.  Killing in general is a risky business, so why should it be any more risky for PC Watkins?  He may not have shut the door as that would have been more suspicious to Eddowes perhaps?

I still think it's odd he didn't raise the alarm right away - for every moment he delayed, the real killer was disappearing into the night... unless...

Not saying Watkins IS the killer by the way (I'm sure there are other possibilities), just trying to open up some other avenues of thought and enquiry.  :)

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Offline ollyfrom.tv

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #442 on: September 7, 2014, 12:43:36 PM »

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #443 on: September 7, 2014, 01:21:06 PM »
He would do, he has a book to sell for £16.99 a pop.
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Offline jed the red

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #444 on: September 7, 2014, 01:31:28 PM »
So. He has found an un-washed shawl, which is 126 years old. That has never been washed. Which, and let's be brutally honest here, probably wasn't of the highest calibre clothing range for the time (These girls weren't brasses 'cos they were minted!) and suddenly we have the identity of one of the most notorious killers in history who has remained unknown, despite any number of investigations from various quarters.

Hmmmmmm, dubious.  ;)

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #445 on: September 9, 2014, 12:02:59 PM »

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #446 on: September 12, 2015, 09:33:42 PM »
Suspect not named in the thread is Charles Allen Lechmere

http://www.thejacktherippertour.com/blog/a-new-jack-the-ripper-suspect/


https://unsolvedwhitechapel.wordpress.com/tag/charles-allen-lechmere/


Watched a programme on it today made a very good case
« Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 09:35:14 PM by WEST HAM PAUL »
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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #447 on: September 12, 2015, 10:17:51 PM »
Was it Queen Victoria's doctor?


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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #448 on: September 14, 2015, 12:09:53 AM »
Suspect not named in the thread is Charles Allen Lechmere

http://www.thejacktherippertour.com/blog/a-new-jack-the-ripper-suspect/


https://unsolvedwhitechapel.wordpress.com/tag/charles-allen-lechmere/


Watched a programme on it today made a very good case
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Offline John C

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #449 on: September 14, 2015, 10:56:48 PM »
Was it Queen Victoria's doctor?

Dr. William Gull? He was an accomplice with painter Walter Sickert & Prince Eddy according to Stephen Knight in his 80's book.

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #450 on: September 14, 2015, 11:22:42 PM »
Dr. William Gull? He was an accomplice with painter Walter Sickert & Prince Eddy according to Stephen Knight in his 80's book.

He was named in a TV series years ago.

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #451 on: September 15, 2015, 08:46:05 AM »
Wasn't Dr William Gull Alan Moore's choice of Ripper in From Hell?

Anyway, there's Jack the Ripper DLC for the new Assassins Creed so I'm sure Ubisoft will be kind enough to enlighten us as to who did it, in among fetch quests, collecting feathers and climbing towers to unlock the map.
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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #452 on: September 15, 2015, 10:23:07 AM »
Wasn't Dr William Gull Alan Moore's choice of Ripper in From Hell?

Anyway, there's Jack the Ripper DLC for the new Assassins Creed so I'm sure Ubisoft will be kind enough to enlighten us as to who did it, in among fetch quests, collecting feathers and climbing towers to unlock the map.

He was also named in the Jack The Ripper TV series starring Michael Caine in 1988.

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #453 on: October 3, 2015, 11:31:33 AM »
In today's Guardian, sounds like a good evening

Bruce Robinson on Jack the Ripper
14 October, St Leonard’s church, Shoreditch, London
Novelist Will Self talks to award-winning film director Bruce Robinson (Withnail & I) about his 12-year search for Jack the Ripper’s identity. He also explores the murky world of late Victorian society, its villains, hypocrites and institutionalised corruption - £15

Great article in the Telegraph.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11899901/jack-the-ripper-mystery-solved.html
« Last Edit: October 3, 2015, 12:23:53 PM by kavah »

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #454 on: October 3, 2015, 04:35:32 PM »
His theory sounds like cobblers to me... Still, things like this are always interesting to read..
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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #455 on: November 12, 2017, 01:16:19 AM »
It was Lechmere.

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #456 on: November 12, 2017, 09:13:56 AM »
It was Lechmere.

Did you just have a weird dream or something?

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #457 on: November 12, 2017, 09:14:41 AM »
Has anyone watched that American Ripper in London on History?
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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #458 on: November 12, 2017, 06:29:03 PM »
Did you just have a weird dream or something?
:D random bump but I've been studying it quite a bit lately. Lechmere is the most compelling case.

Has anyone watched that American Ripper in London on History?
Is that the one about H.H Holmes?

Offline kopite.keith

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #459 on: November 12, 2017, 07:33:08 PM »
:D random bump but I've been studying it quite a bit lately. Lechmere is the most compelling case.
Is that the one about H.H Holmes?

There was a programme on TV recently and the research and investigation by Dr Gareth Norris concluded that Lechmere was "Jack the Ripper," it may still be available on catch up TV.

https://www.aber.ac.uk/en/news/archive/2014/11/title-159995-en.html
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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #460 on: November 12, 2017, 08:24:33 PM »
There was a programme on TV recently and the research and investigation by Dr Gareth Norris concluded that Lechmere was "Jack the Ripper," it may still be available on catch up TV.

https://www.aber.ac.uk/en/news/archive/2014/11/title-159995-en.html
The evidence is overwhelming against Lechmere. I didn't see that particular programme but I'll definitely check it out :), thanks. I'd be interested in that whole series, 9/11 and Monroe also covered.

This was a great thread by the way, I enjoyed following it.

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #461 on: December 8, 2017, 01:41:51 PM »

Is that the one about H.H Holmes?

Yes. Not seen it myself, but was wondering if the make a compelling case.
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Offline Marty 85

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #462 on: April 27, 2018, 10:30:53 PM »
Jack the Ripper: Missing Evidence on 5 now.

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #463 on: July 20, 2018, 11:25:49 AM »
Interesting news here:

BBC One Aims To Find Jack The Ripper In Emilia Fox-Fronted Science Documentary https://deadline.com/2018/07/the-bbc-aims-to-find-jack-the-ripper-in-emilia-fox-fronted-science-documentary-1202430084/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


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BBC One Aims To Find Jack The Ripper In Documentary
« Reply #464 on: July 20, 2018, 11:30:01 AM »
BBC One Aims To Find Jack The Ripper In Emilia Fox-Fronted Science Documentary https://deadline.com/2018/07/the-bbc-aims-to-find-jack-the-ripper-in-emilia-fox-fronted-science-documentary-1202430084/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Quote
The BBC is looking to solve the murders of Jack The Ripper in a new science documentary fronted by The Pianist and Silent Witness star Emilia Fox.

The British public broadcaster has ordered Jack The Ripper (w/t) from BBC Studios to air later this year. The one-hour special will look at how 130 years ago, between August and November 1888, Ripper murdered five women in the East End of London.

Despite a huge manhunt, the murders were never solved. The BBC hopes that using the latest police cold case techniques it will get closer than ever before. It will use original crime scene photographs as well as a virtual reality dissection table to answer the question of who was Jack The Ripper, what motivated him and how did he escape justice. Fox will be joined by Professor David Wilson, Emeritus Professor of Criminology, in the doc.

It will be exec produced by Steve Crabtree and was commissioned by Charlotte Moore, Director, Content and Tom McDonald, Head of Commissioning, Natural History and Specialist Factual. The Commissioning Editor is Craig Hunter.

Fox said, “Having worked on crime drama for many years this project has been a truly fascinating insight into how current real police procedure, forensics and technology can be applied to the most famous of unsolved historical crimes – the Jack the Ripper murders. Working alongside Professor David Wilson, a leading expert in the psychology of criminals, we have approached it as a cold case might be investigated now, and with the help of other leading experts, have taken another look at the mind and actions of this brutal murderer.

“This documentary appealed to me hugely because of my interest in crime, forensics and pathology and also because it looks at the victims – the women Jack the Ripper chose and what left them so vulnerable to his brutality. It’s been an immense privilege to get this behind-the-scenes insight into real crime solving on such a fascinating case.”

Craig Hunter, BBC Commissioning Editor, added, “Jack the Ripper is synonymous with murder and intrigue – even if you don’t know all the details, you will have heard of the case. It is remarkable to think that today’s scientific techniques can be used to help try and tackle unanswered questions which are more than a century old”.


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Re: BBC One Aims To Find Jack The Ripper In Documentary
« Reply #465 on: July 20, 2018, 03:32:06 PM »
It's as regular as clockwork like finding that the Pyramids are some form of star gazers observatory. PS - where is Andy Hunter?

Just realised it's the 130 year anniversary. I'm old enough to remember Barlow and Watts from Z Cars "solving" the mystery.

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Re: BBC One Aims To Find Jack The Ripper In Documentary
« Reply #466 on: July 20, 2018, 04:13:52 PM »
That's why they're doing it. Every few years someone claims they figured it out.

The poster Wooltonian even tempted to do it on here.  :D

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Re: BBC One Aims To Find Jack The Ripper In Documentary
« Reply #467 on: July 20, 2018, 06:34:50 PM »
I remember watching a documentary where a retired detective did an incredible amount of research and travelled to America to find out who the Ripper was. He made a compelling case that it was a German sailor called Carl Fiegenbaum. The guy in question was in London on each of the murder nights according to ship's logs. He ended up in America and was executed after being caught for committing a couple of very similar murders.

In any case, I have always believed that the murders were not committed by one person. Fiegenbaum may have committed one for example but not the others.


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Re: BBC One Aims To Find Jack The Ripper In Documentary
« Reply #468 on: July 20, 2018, 06:47:14 PM »
In any case, I have always believed that the murders were not committed by one person. Fiegenbaum may have committed one for example but not the others.



It was a series of elaborate suicides. Mystery solved... ;)

I'm no expert, but I but I think the Ripper is an interesting topic. At the same time I'm not sure it will ever be solved if they haven't been able so far with all that new technology. Then again the murders happened a long long time ago and there's only so much you can find out now...
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 06:49:34 PM by stoa »

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Re: BBC One Aims To Find Jack The Ripper In Documentary
« Reply #469 on: July 20, 2018, 06:47:28 PM »
It will be an relative of Jeremy then.     ;)
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Re: BBC One Aims To Find Jack The Ripper In Documentary
« Reply #470 on: July 20, 2018, 06:49:15 PM »
It will be an relative of Jeremy then.     ;)

 ;D
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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #471 on: July 21, 2018, 09:27:08 PM »
Fascinating thread, just read the first page. Posting to bookmark it.

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Re: BBC One Aims To Find Jack The Ripper In Documentary
« Reply #472 on: July 22, 2018, 01:36:56 AM »
As with all of these programs about solving something like this or the pyramids or ufo's, it would be on the news first rather then spread over a 6-8 week period via a doco.
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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #473 on: November 16, 2018, 02:14:23 PM »
(I don't follow this thread closely, so this may have come up as the book has been out for three years...)

There is this book called "The All Love Jack: Busting the Ripper I've started reading. It's by Bruce Robinson, screenplay writer of Withnail and I.

I'm not far into it, so far all he's done is spectacularly rip the shit out of Queen Victoria, but here are a few bits from Amazon.

"The iconoclastic writer and director of the revered classic Withnail & I—"The funniest British film of all time" (Esquire)—returns to London in a decade-long examination of the most provocative murder investigation in British history, and finally solves the identity of the killer known as "Jack the Ripper."

In a literary high-wire act reminiscent of both Hunter S. Thompson and Errol Morris, Bruce Robinson offers a radical reinterpretation of Jack the Ripper, contending that he was not the madman of common legend, but the vile manifestation of the Victorian Age's moral bankruptcy.

In exploring the case of Jack the Ripper, Robison goes beyond the who that has obsessed countless others and focuses on the why. He asserts that any "gentlemen" that walked above the fetid gutters of London, the nineteenth century's most depraved city, often harbored proclivities both violent and taboo—yearnings that went entirely unpunished, especially if he also bore royal connections. The story of Jack the Ripper hinges on accounts that were printed and distributed throughout history by the same murderous miscreants who frequented the East End of her Majesty's London, wiping the fetid muck from their boots when they once again reached the marble floors of society's finest homes.

Supported by primary sources and illustrated with 75 to 100 black and white photographs, this breathtaking work of cultural history dismisses the theories of previous "Ripperologists." A Robinson persuasively makes clear with his unique brilliance, The Ripper was far from a poor resident of Whitechapel . . . he was a way of life."


Review



“Robinson’s achievement isn’t in revealing the Ripper but in writing the most involving, audacious, and wonderfully bonkers book of the year.” (Irish Times)

“A strange, mind-boggling mixture…. Anyone coming blind to the book might think it a collaboration between Dr. David Starkey and Johnny Rotten.” (Mail on Sunday)

“Rarely has a book on Jack the Ripper been written with such visceral anger: anger at Jack, at ‘Ripperology’, at the establishment, and anger at the police cover-up that allowed one of the world’s most infamous serial killers to remain free…Robinson’s…research is undoubtedly impressive…. A bloody good read.” (The Guardian)



From the Back Cover




For over a hundred years, the mystery of Jack the Ripper has been a source of unparalleled fascination and horror, spawning an army of obsessive theorists and endless volumes purporting to finally reveal the identity of the brutal murderer who terrorized Victorian England.

But what if there was never really any mystery at all? What if the Ripper was always hiding in plain sight, deliberately leaving a trail of clues to his identity for anyone who cared to look, while cynically mocking those who were supposedly attempting to bring him to justice?

In They All Love Jack, the award-winning film director and screenwriter Bruce Robinson exposes the cover-up that enabled one of history's most notorious serial killers to remain at large. More than twelve years in the writing, this is no mere radical reinterpretation of the Jack the Ripper legend and an enthralling hunt for the killer. A literary high-wire act reminiscent of Tom Wolfe or Hunter S. Thompson, it is an expressionistic journey through the cesspools of late-Victorian society, a phantasmagoria of highly placed villains, hypocrites, and institutionalized corruption.

Polemic forensic investigation and panoramic portrait of an age, underpinned by deep scholarship and delivered in Robinson's inimitably vivid and scabrous prose, They All Love Jack is an absolutely riveting and unique book, demolishing the theories of generations of self-appointed experts—the so-called Ripperologists—to make clear, at last, who really did it; and, more important, how he managed to get away with it for so long.




I'm looking forward to seeing how he balances calling ripperologists conspiracy theorists that are full of it, while giving his own theory, if he indeed does name someone.

 

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #474 on: December 10, 2018, 11:39:29 AM »
Ain't reading all this thread again but has anyone read 'They all love jack'? I think it's by the guy who wrote Withnail and I

Just started it, seems like a good one :)

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #475 on: December 10, 2018, 12:54:33 PM »
Ain't reading all this thread again but has anyone read 'They all love jack'? I think it's by the guy who wrote Withnail and I

Just started it, seems like a good one :)

It's two posts above yours
get thee to the library before the c*nts close it down

we are a bunch of twats commenting on a website.

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #476 on: December 10, 2018, 01:26:33 PM »
It's two posts above yours

Safe to say he won't be cracking the case :P

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #477 on: December 10, 2018, 02:33:12 PM »
Safe to say he won't be cracking the case :P

I was just seeing if you were both paying attention......honest :D

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #478 on: December 10, 2018, 02:39:05 PM »
Ain't reading all this thread again but has anyone read 'They all love jack'? I think it's by the guy who wrote Withnail and I

Just started it, seems like a good one :)

It's quite a read but well worth sticking with.

I won't give the ending away but........

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #479 on: December 10, 2018, 03:30:06 PM »
It's quite a read but well worth sticking with.

I won't give the ending away but........

lol yeah especially liking the way he tells it like it is.