Topic: Bollocks to the new stadium

[Jimmy Conway]

You gotta remember though, Arsenal is in London. One of the most expensive for land in the world!

[Rushian]

Liverpool Picks Laing for 200 Million-Pound Stadium

By Sophie Kernon and Brian McGee from bloomberg.com

Dec. 12 -- Liverpool Football Club, in takeover talks with Dubai-based investors, chose Laing O'Rourke Plc to build a new 200 million-pound ($390 million) stadium, three people familiar with the situation said.

Laing, site manager for the 2012 Olympics and builder of Cardiff's Millennium Stadium, won the order without an official round of bidding, said the people, who asked not to be identified before the contract is made public. Dartford-based Laing is Britain's biggest closely held construction company.

Carillion Plc, named preferred bidder on an initial stadium contract with Liverpool in March 2003, was not invited to price the job when the plan was revived, the people said. Sir Robert McAlpine, builder of the Emirates Stadium and a planned 80,000- seat arena for the London Olympics, declined to bid, they said.

Mark Way, an external spokesman for Laing, would neither confirm nor deny that the builder had won the Liverpool contract.

Amy Horsley in the club's press office said she wasn't authorized to speak and declined to put calls through to Chief Executive Officer Rick Parry. Official spokesman Ian Cotton didn't return calls.

It's Laing O'Rourke.

Laing built the Millennium Stadium, built the Man City Commonwealth Stadium and and when bought out by O'Rourke the new Ascot Racecourse Redevelopment, Coventry's new stadium etc. Think they're also part of the London Olympic build.

[GibletII]

Laing O'Rourke have got a monopoly on big stuff in Liverpool at the moment.

Good stuff though, they do a proper job. Thank fuck McLeans never got the work.

[kopite 1]

the company i work for supplies all of the concrete and flooring to them we worked with them on  ascot,cardiff and many more so we should get anfield we also supplied wembley(not our fault for the delay) and are preparing for 2012 games which will be huge

[Alan_X]

New pics of the proposed stadium as it will look when completed...

Not sure myself - that main stand looks like everyone elses - Fulham, Boro even Chelsea... rumour is the same architect is working on Everton's ground.

Leave it as it is Mr McKenna! next thing they'll be putting a roof on the Kop or fucks sake!

[todda]

New pics of the proposed stadium as it will look when completed...

Not sure myself - that main stand looks like everyone elses - Fulham, Boro even Chelsea... rumour is the same architect is working on Everton's ground.

Leave it as it is Mr McKenna! next thing they'll be putting a roof on the Kop or fucks sake!

Yeah this design looks very attractive!!! LOL take it they've only just been released by the new owners?? teeee heeee!!!!!

[Red Lust]

Whats that new fangled reinforced concrete stuff?

[red73]

Does anyone remember that the 2 sisters who refused to sell their house to enable building of the centenary stand put a curse on the club when the compulsory purchase order was carried out? The curse was that we'd never win the league at that stadium again :/ Luckily for us they didnt include cup games

[jimbo147]

its new,we need to move on with the times,bigger capacity......etc etc....

bollocks.

just my view,but i don't feel its right-and i dont think we've exhausted all avenues of staying put.

whats wrong with knocking down the main stand & the row of houses behind,relocating the tenants in the streets (fully refurb of course) that are derelict,turn and lower the pitch 90 degrees and increase the capacity that way?

surely it would at least match the 55,000 of the proposed stadium?

i look at arsenals stadium & although it looks nice-its got as much atmosphere as a fucking ghost-town,ok-their fans aint exactly the greatest,but even at their best,its shite.

this way,i'm pretty sure it would cost half of that new stadium & regenerating those dreadful streets at the same time.

also,a few quid spare for transfer funds.

i expect a pasting off a few on this,but hey-its my opinion & i dont think its outrageous neither.

Where do you propose we play when all this work is being carried out - certainly aint going anywhere near that shit hole across the park!

[Liver Bird]

http://www.soccer24-7.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128476

some city fan surely talking a load of bollocks?

[Emlyn18]

http://www.soccer24-7.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128476

some city fan surely talking a load of bollocks?

I would say so.

[anfieldanfield]

http://www.soccer24-7.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128476

some city fan surely talking a load of bollocks?

Maybe not.

Different versions of this rumour have crept onto a couple of LFC forums now...

[Alan_X]

Hard to believe - we could be looking at a two or three year delay at best. Everything would need to be re-done including Section 106 agreements and the European money would be down the swanney.

It's quite possible that AFL have been dumped after getting planning permission (RIBA Stage D) - happens all the time. Could be that Gillet's preferred architects will finalise the designs with a London firm acting as executive architects.

Like I say, I'd be amazed if it's really "back to the drawing board" Gillett and Hicks would be risking a hell of a lot of goodwill in the council if they did.

[Rushian]

Maybe not.

Different versions of this rumour have crept onto a couple of LFC forums now...

any links?

[Liver Bird]

It's quite possible that AFL have been dumped after getting planning permission (RIBA Stage D) - happens all the time. Could be that Gillet's preferred architects will finalise the designs with a London firm acting as executive architects.

If theres any truth in it then that seems  most likely , are AFL based in Manchester I think I remember someone saying they were?

[anfieldanfield]

any links?

A poster on 'Est'...

"Apparently Statler and Waldorf (Hicks and Gillett) have sacked the Manchester-based architects Atherden Fuller Leng (AFL) and appointed another firm from London. And just to please all those of you out there that don't think 60,000 is enough, the new architects have been given a specific brief - increase the capacity to 70,000.

I've no idea how they will do that as I've always said the planning permission granted was based on 60,000 (or 61,000 to be more precise) being the maximum limit set after considering the infrastructure and the effect on the roads, etc, of an extra 16,000 fans at each game."

[¡Basta Ya!]

I'll believe that when I see it.

Thanks for the info though.

[Chindits]

it was started before est got hold of it by a manc i believe.

[Rushian]

A poster on 'Est'...

"Apparently Statler and Waldorf (Hicks and Gillett) have sacked the Manchester-based architects Atherden Fuller Leng (AFL) and appointed another firm from London. And just to please all those of you out there that don't think 60,000 is enough, the new architects have been given a specific brief - increase the capacity to 70,000.

I've no idea how they will do that as I've always said the planning permission granted was based on 60,000 (or 61,000 to be more precise) being the maximum limit set after considering the infrastructure and the effect on the roads, etc, of an extra 16,000 fans at each game."

cheers mate. Can't see there's a hope in hell of an increase in capacity on Stanley Park, and it would introduce  further 2 or 3 year delay looking to build elsewhere.

[¡Basta Ya!]

cheers mate. Can't see there's a hope in hell of an increase in capacity on Stanley Park, and it would introduce  further 2 or 3 year delay looking to build elsewhere.

Yeah, at least.

What I think this might have started from is the fact that they have bought in their own guys to work with AFL to share any expertise

[¡Basta Ya!]

So, the latest "rumour" is that it's 90k.

Starting to snowball, or does it have some reality behind it?

[Alan_X]

I may be wrong - haven't read through the documents recently - but the planning approval actually limits the size of the stadium to 45,000 (current capacity) and any additional capacity has to be accompanied by a travel plan. The current plans are for 61,000 with associated travel and parking arrangements.

It may be possible to amend the current plans if there is a minimal impact on the external appearance (unlikely) and a new travel plan was prepared and approved but it is more likely that a new planning application would need to be submitted.

[¡Basta Ya!]

getting an extra 30k people in and out would be a nightmare - an extra 10 might not be so bad though.

[Liver Bird]

something has been a bit odd lately anyway especially people talking to the architects of AFL they seemed to be changing their tune on the spot depending on what people were asking them particularly about the kop stand ,it seemed ridiculous at the time to suggest they were out of the loop.

Even the viewing plans seemed weird ,you would expect a great fanfare ,maybe a lot of the top brass there ,great PR  and a big show out of showing the fans and consulting the public but it was almost as if the club were keeping a distance from it all as well.

[Paul Gardner]

something has been a bit odd lately anyway especially people talking to the architects of AFL they seemed to be changing their tune on the spot depending on what people were asking them particularly about the kop stand ,it seemed ridiculous at the time to suggest they were out of the loop.

Even the viewing plans seemed weird ,you would expect a great fanfare ,maybe a lot of the top brass there ,great PR  and a big show out of showing the fans and consulting the public but it was almost as if the club were keeping a distance from it all as well.

Good point. I'm not one for believing some of these rumours but that definately explains the poor showing when displaying the plans.

[¡Basta Ya!]

Conspiracy theorists, start your engines.

[Paul Gardner]

There would be no need for conspiracy theories if LFC just told us what was happening

[¡Basta Ya!]

There would be no need for conspiracy theories if LFC just told us what was happening

And so say all of us.

[Alan_X]

I think they would have the decency to tell the design team and others involved before they told the rest of us.  There are potential claims for loss of profit and abortive fees etc from everyone involved so they will be fairly careful before making any official statement.

I've e-mailed a friend (Reds fan working on Liverpool town centre redevelopment) who is ex-Laing O-Rourke and he's digging around with the QS for the project to see if he can find out what's happening.

I'll post anything I hear.

[¡Basta Ya!]

Thanks Alan.

[nidgemo]

I may be wrong - haven't read through the documents recently - but the planning approval actually limits the size of the stadium to 45,000 (current capacity) and any additional capacity has to be accompanied by a travel plan. The current plans are for 61,000 with associated travel and parking arrangements.

It may be possible to amend the current plans if there is a minimal impact on the external appearance (unlikely) and a new travel plan was prepared and approved but it is more likely that a new planning application would need to be submitted.

Alan

In your professional opinion - how much capacity could be added by going further underground to pitch level, decreasing the pitch of the stands (and increasing the pitch of a single tier kop) and overlapping tiers on 3 sides, while keeping within the current footprint?

or example

This is one of the stands currently

[PaulF]

Alan

In your professional opinion - how much capacity could be added by going further underground to pitch level, decreasing the pitch of the stands (and increasing the pitch of a single tier kop) and overlapping tiers on 3 sides, while keeping within the current footprint?

Make sure you quote him for you professional estimate 

[¡Basta Ya!]

FIlling the top of the corners in would add between 6300-7500 people for a start (rough estimate, judging by the cornerless 55k design being pushed to 61k for the lower/small half being filled)

[Alan_X]

Alan

In your professional opinion - how much capacity could be added by going further underground to pitch level, decreasing the pitch of the stands (and increasing the pitch of a single tier kop) and overlapping tiers on 3 sides, while keeping within the current footprint?

Hard to say (opinions cost money  and stadia aren't my speciailty) - I played around with the drawings that were posted on the other thread but they aren'y really accurate enough. The pitch is already below ground level but could go down a bit further. The big gain would be changing the roof and filling in the corners which would be a shame in my opinion - the "four stands" fell is vital. So the two ends could be extended - possibly cantilevered beyond the ground line. There could be more of the "less-than-optimum" seats at the edges of the stands. I can see 70,000 being squeezed on to the current site - 90,000 seems unlikely given the traffic problems.

Everything depends on how keen everyone is to get this done.

[nidgemo]

Hard to say (opinions cost money  and stadia aren't my speciailty) - I played around with the drawings that were posted on the other thread but they aren'y really accurate enough. The pitch is already below ground level but could go down a bit further. The big gain would be changing the roof and filling in the corners which would be a shame in my opinion - the "four stands" fell is vital. So the two ends could be extended - possibly cantilevered beyond the ground line. There could be more of the "less-than-optimum" seats at the edges of the stands. I can see 70,000 being squeezed on to the current site - 90,000 seems unlikely given the traffic problems.

Everything depends on how keen everyone is to get this done.

example

This is one of the stands currently

[nidgemo]

And this is a completely unbuildable (and with fairly serious sight line problems for any ball above head height on the far side of the pitch) version with reduced "backroom" areas, but 2 teirs, twice the capacity, and, vitally, the exact same height and ground appearance outside...

Just by lowering the pitch a few (well, 10) metres and slightly decreasing the pitch of the stand.

[¡Basta Ya!]

Blimey Nidge, that's some overhang. Would take some nice pillars to hold the bastard thing too

If 90k is anything like real I would bet my bollocks to a barndance that it would be a complete redesign and relocation

[Alan_X]

Get it built.

I just realised what he's done - just a 120,000 I'm afraid... Stadio da Luz not Maracana!

[¡Basta Ya!]

digging down would just reduce the pitch size surely - unless it was a tier build directly beneath or a vertical stand of course - not likely though.

[¡Basta Ya!]

I just realised what he's done - just a 120,000 I'm afraid... Stadio da Luz not Maracana!

You having fun with that delete button, Alan?