Author Topic: Survivors: Talk about it, share it, we'll try to help  (Read 139885 times)

Offline Glorious Future

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Survivors: Talk about it, share it, we'll try to help
« on: April 14, 2006, 07:17:43 PM »
Ive been thinking about this for a long time now, and this is my first attempt to make something of my thoughts.

Tomorrow marks what is, for many of us, the darkest day on the calendar, not excepting any other possible bad days that life can deal for some. It turns my stomach for weeks before, and I know there are others like this. The thing is, Im not sure theres really a place for us. Survivors that is (or people who feel the same way).

Now I KNOW the HJC is here and Ive been in there many times and Ive spoken with Pete C. I'll be meeting there tomorrow at 1-15, as Id like to say hello to some relatives that I know if at all possible. They at HJC do a fantastic job, most of which Im not even probably aware of and I know they have a chat every now and then. But..

I want to get something going for survivors, and people affected by Hillsborough in a way that allows them to ease their suffering. Its got NOTHING to do with fundraising (although if ever there was any it would be handed to the appropriate places) or even justice (and as I say, anything that can be positively put the families way would always be)... but I think theres a need for a 'place' where people can share something that, lets be honest, most people wouldnt want it sharing with.

I think this is important, and Ive felt strongly about it for a long time. I dont think the survivors have a place to go, a place to help them, except what we've always done: pour it into the match, or, more worryingly for many, in the bottom of a glass.

Now once again, this is NOTHING contrary to the HJC, at all. I know there have been problems recently, and this is totally unrelated. LET ME MAKE THAT CLEAR.

Im thinking along the lines of a web site, and or social things, places to go, things to talk about. I think theres a need. Maybe it could be part of this website.

Now if theres already something like this, let me know. And I dont mean the Hillsborough forum. The needs of people affected by H'Borough are complex, imo. I dont think theyve ever really been met, and that is what Id like to help to do.

Let me know what you think, either here, or by PM.

Cheers. Glo.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 12:54:51 PM by Veinticinco de Mayo »
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Offline cowlos

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2006, 07:42:17 PM »
Good idea Glofut. I have always felt that I can't discuss with others and there is a feeling of safety needed to bring out feelings and thougts, that let's face it cause upset, pain and guilt.
I think a web site may be the way forward. My thinking behind this is-
A lot of survivors have now scattered to the four corners and although I'm home for most matches I spend most of my time in London.
Although I have been into the HJC and been with others, I find it difficult to break into conversation about it.
I am now and have always been better third party. Face to face I'm terrible and choke up, cry and basically don't get my point across.
I do think regular meets would be good and I would gladly travel to do this wherever was thought appropriate. I don't think ale would be a good idea, just a personal point!

Offline Glorious Future

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2006, 07:54:06 PM »
Lol, the ale, cowlos. No, I did think about this, and realised it could well deteriorate into a coke fuelled (NOT my preference btw), booze flooded disaster zone if things werent thought out properly, but I think there are millions of things people could do. Its about marking what we know to be, without fear of ridicule, scepticism, disrespect, clumsiness.

I know some would wonder what could remain after 17 years. Im sure many can agree, much, much remains after 17 years. Much will reman after 77, if we're still here.

There is something very deep inside many that has never really been allowed to vent itself. It pisses me off that so many have suffered for this and I know about the possibilities this world can present for people who, basically, have been fkd over.

Im no hardliner, and Im not a 'stand up and tell the group' type either. Respect is what these things are all about, with release, and as you say, cowlos, safety.

Cheers for your reply. We'll see what others think too.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2006, 09:41:59 PM by Glofut »
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Offline Glorious Future

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2006, 10:37:13 PM »
For now, its time for reflection for me. Thanks for PMs and Ill reply if anyone wants one, up and until Im psd and in bed.

Speak soon.

YNWA.
JFT96.
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Offline Branno

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2006, 01:51:32 AM »
Great idea! Its now 10.24am and I have woken up with a lovely hangover ;)

Yet last night I was a mess....went to a friends place and had a lovely dinner, chat and a few drinks. Then headed off to catch a taxi......I knew what was building up inside! I had no intenetion of getting a taxi straight away. So off to the pub where I took two sips of a pint then its was straight outside.....balling my eyes out!  :'(

Its 17 years and Im 12,000 miles away now! You would think its would get easier.....but its the opposite! The last few years have gotten harder and harder to deal with this day....the reason is the internet. You see up until about 4 years ago I never 'surfed' the web........after Hillsborough I moved to London.....April 15 meant nothing to anyone.......then I moved to Oz 8 years later....again April 15 meant nothing to anyone. So in effect I had 'blocked' the day from my mind!

Then i got access to the net....all of a sudden I was reading accounts of that day from people who where probably just 10-20 feet away from me in that pen. It was amazing....for about 14 years I had bottled it all up, had nobody to speak who would understand and yet here before my eyes where stories that I could have literally wrote myself!

When I say its getting harder I probably just mean I get more emotional! Im doing now what I should have been doing 15 years ago....letting it all out! It feels better but I still think I have some way to go.....fuck I just wish I was in Liverpool and could speak face to face and give someone a hug who understands! But this will pass and I will get on with my life until the same time next year  :-\

I feel so much better for having a good cry last night! Does all this make sense to anyone or do I need some professional help ?  :)

************************************************************

Here is a post of mine from last year.......


THE FLAG !

This was going to be my best season as a Liverpool supporter. I was 18 years old, just got my 3rd season ticket in a row and had just started my first ‘proper’ job. So for the first time ever I had some extra cash to spend on following the Reds. The year…….1988!

September came and all the lads from our estate met up at The Gate (our local in St Helens).  There where about 20 of us. Fifteen reds and five bitters! The pre season banter was always good and this year was no exception! In fact we had all just come back from holiday together in Ibiza , so looking tanned and cash in pocket the reds headed off to Anfield for the first home game of the season……..Liverpool 1-0 Manchester United !!! “I told you this was gonna be a good season” I joked with the lads as we left the Kop

That season was great! Barnes, Beardsley and Aldridge setting the league alight and with my new found income I had been to several away games as well! Come April it was time for our next big away game. For the second year running we had drawn Forest in the semi final of the cup. Now after the humiliation of the previous years FA cup final loss to Wimbledon I was really up for us in the FA Cup this year. (As the European ban was still in place!)

So to make the game a bit more special I decided I was going make a flag for the first time. Off to the market, where I bought two big pieces of red and white material. My mum got the sewing out and produced this massive red/white/red tricolor. In the centre was a ‘LIVERPOOL – THE MIGHTY REDS’ flag that I had bought from one of the scallies at a previous game outside the Kop. It was my pride and joy!

So the Saturday morning came and all the boys head down to where the coach was picking us up. Butties and a six pack each for the journey !!. I had a problem though, all my mates had Leppings Lane terrace tickets but I had a ticket for the seats in the Leppings Lane stand. “There’s no way I’m sitting down for a semi…….I have never sat down for any match” I told my mate Alan. Problem solved halfway there when I managed to swap my ticket (plus 6 quid!) for a Leppings Lane terrace ticket……..YES!!!!!!  “This is gonna be a great day” I remember thinking. Cashed up, Lynxed up, team on top of the league, heading of to a FA cup semi final, brand new massive flag to make my presence felt and I have just swapped  tickets to be by the side of all my mates. “Nothing can go wrong…..3-1 I reckon”

We arrive about 1km from the ground and started our walk to the turnstiles. Got there about 2.30pm and it was a bit chockers outside. The fifteen of us tried to stay together but it was a waste of time. “Lets go inside and we’ll catch up with them in there” I said to my only remaining mate Nick. “We have arranged to meet up behind the goal and I wanna get my flag up on the fence”.

In we go and through the central tunnel that lead underneath the stand. “How come it’s so packed in here Branno and the other two sections are empty” asked Nick. “Dunno mate! There’s a fence at the tunnel entrance so they’ll close that soon and send everyone round the other sides” I told Nick. I had been to the semi the year before at Hillsborough and this had happened.

I tried to make my way to the fence but it was useless. “Oh forget it mate this is too much hassle, we cant get through” I shouted to Nick whilst trying to worm my way back to the tunnel. “If we go back out the tunnel and turn right. There is another entrance by the corner flag. That way we can make our way sort of back to the middle. Hopefully it won’t be as packed”. I distinctly remember the time we finally got out of the pen…..2.49pm!

Off we went and sure enough the pen to the left as you look from behind the goal was pretty empty. We looked out for the other lads behind the goal but couldn’t make any of them out, it was just a sea of heads. Finally 3pm comes around at the atmosphere is fever pitch as the game kicks off. Nick and I are stood on some railings trying to get a better view.

This also gave us a better view of the middle pen. Now, I started to really suspect something wasn’t right when it was noticeable that most of the crowd in the middle where more concerned about ‘getting a bit more space’ than actually following the game. This was very evident when Beardsley hit the cross bar at the Kop end. Normally in unison all the supporters would jump up in the air, heads in hands at such a close effort……not this time!  They couldn’t !

“It must be packed Branno, some of them at the front are trying to get out” Nick said to me. Then we noticed fans climbing up into the stand behind. “Let’s get up there” I said to Nick. At the time this was purely to get a better view of the game. What I got was a ‘better’ view of what was happening below on the terraces.

It has been well documented as to what happened in that next hour. One memory that sticks in my mind is the sight of two legs standing up in the air…..in the middle of the pen. It was like the guy was doing a handstand. “God help him” is all I could think. At the time you couldn’t really take in what was happening. Rumors filled the stand of ‘3 have died…..ten have died…..fifteen have died.’  “Yeah right!” I kept in thinking. “It’s a bloody football match, they have probably just passed out or something”.

Then you start to believe what you are hearing and then the panic sets in ‘Where are the lads Nick?.......they said they where gonna meet us behind the goal didn’t they”. The look on Nicks face is something I had never seen before, his eyes where filling up and that of course set me off! After the game had been ‘officially’ cancelled we left the stand. The atmosphere behind the stand was surreal. Anger, disbelief, confusion and frustration. We headed up to the “Currys’ store down the road where we joined the queue for a telephone. It was only when we got inside the store that it finally hit home. They had rows of televisions showing ‘Grandstand’.

Its weird, you can witness 96 people die in front of you and then have a load of fellow supporters tell you people have died and you don’t really believe them. Yet I was bloody there went it happened and yet I still only really believed it when I saw it on television !!!

I finally got to make a call. My mum’s line was constantly engaged so I thought I would ring Alan’s mum so she could pass the word around. As the phone was ringing the thought came into my head “Sht! I don’t even know if Alans is alright. What the feck do I say to his mother”. Thankfully Alan had already called her and told her all the group was OK but they couldn’t find Nick and I !!!!

Back to the coach and we gratefully caught up with lads! Hugs where exchanged and we boarded. Then came the next bit of reality, we waited and waited on the coach. Finally some 2 hours later the coach driver reluctantly headed back for St Helens……minus 8 passengers ! Halfway back Nick tapped me on the shoulder “Do you still want this” he asked. Stuffed inside jacket was the flag I had made. “Nothing can wrong” are the words that I remembered !

Only a handful of us went to the replay at Old Trafford, 3-1 after all! I was stood in the Stretford End and thought about leaving my flag there! But decided better of it “I’ll take it to the Cup Final”

On the day I actually forgot to take my flag but nevertheless we won a very emotional Cup final. I carried on going to games but minus the flag. Until the last game of the season against Arsenal and ‘that’ goal scored by Michael Thomas. In the film Fever Pitch you see some real footage of the Kop that night. In this you can clearly see ‘my flag’ waiving proudly! After the game I threw the flag into my wardrobe in disgust!

The year later we where all on holiday again in Tenerife. We rarely talked about Hillsborough but the holiday was a good opportunity to get a lot off our chests, and we did! At the end of the holiday I declared to my mates “I’m going move to London and try and get a better job, after last year I reckon we are all lucky sods, so why not?”. Alan stood up “but what about your season ticket Branno?” I just turned around and said “Mate, football used to be a matter of life and death! Now I have seen the death the life looks a much better option “

I spent 7 years in London going to the odd game and then had the opportunity to move to Australia which I took. Then last year one of my best friends with whom I shared a house with in London rang and told me he was going to move to Melbourne. He arrived a few weeks later week and we headed off for a beer. “Hey mate! I’ve got a present for you” Lyndon said all excited. I looked down to his bag “It’s either a carton of B&H  or a bottle of Jamesons” I thought. “Get a load of this!
 Bet you thought you’d never see this again!” he smiled and passed me a carrier bag.

Lyndon had taken over my room when I had left London for Australia some seven years previously. When clearing his room out he noticed this ‘red and white’ thing hiding on the wardrobe floor. “Sorry mate! It’s got a few foot prints on it” he laughed. “I thought I’d bring it with me as a reminder of back home”………the flag had found me again some 15 years and 12,000 miles later!!!!

I then proceeded to tell Lyndon the story of this flag and its history as I have just told you!  “Jesus mate I’m so sorry! I bet you never wanted to see that flag again” he muttered in embarrassment. “It’s never brought you any luck”. I put my pint down, smiled and leant across “Oh yes it did mate! I’m still here aren’t I?”

The flag now has pride of place in the spare room of my house, reunited along with the ticket stub of that day. When I have kids they will be told this story too and the flag/ticket will be passed on to them. Another generation of reds who will be able to educate their mates on what happened that day. Let’s hope Justice doesn’t take that long!   


The subject of Hillsborough is a powerful topic held close to the hearts of all fellow Reds. It’s a subject that rarely goes away and why should it? In light of recent provocation by certain opposition supporters, its ironic to point who we played our last game against before Hillsborough?........MILLWALL AWAY!   

I dedicate this to all our fallen reds, who like me headed of to Sheffield that day with all their hopes and dreams still ahead of them. May they RIP in the knowledge that that they will never be forgotten and the battle for JUSTICE continues.

« Last Edit: April 15, 2006, 02:09:15 AM by Branno »
"I know this is a sad occasion but I think that Dixie would be amazed to know that even in death he could draw a bigger crowd than Everton can on a Saturday afternoon"......Bill Shankly

Offline cowlos

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2006, 02:58:02 AM »
Just read your account mate. I'm up and about at work and struggling if truth be known. I was in pen 3 and went through a lot of what you did. Bottled it up for years following an initial bad time and then it all caught me 3 years ago. I moved to Londonas well, but you can't run away. Birth of my first lad was the turning point for me. Although the nightmares and panic attacks were there it was the birth of my lad that made me think I don't deserve this and I hit the ale in a big way. Nearly finished myself off and if truth be known still just about getting by. I'm about all night. If you want  to post or PM me you are welcome to lad

Offline 2dogs in LA

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2006, 04:35:04 AM »
The survivors are all of us that were there. All the families at home watching all unfold on live TV not knowing, as my mother, if their son, husband, daughter, wife, cousin or friend was one of those being carried on an advertising hording with a coat on their head with a bare arm bouncing in the sunshine are survivors. The heroes that fought the police just to try to allow the faces in front of them turning blue a saving breath of air are survivors. The police that defied orders to beat us back into that cage of death and tried to drag stiffening bodies from the hell are survivors.
Survivors of a tragedy that did not need to happen. Survivors of an event that changed our view of life forever.
We are the survivors. Remember us, everybody, because without the dead and survivors we may all still watch "the beautiful game" from behind electrified barbed-wire fences and have no respect greater than an animal being herded without care into "PENS".
Today is an emotional day. This time it is also Easter. A time to remember and grow has never been so relevent to me personally.
I hope those that laid down their scarves in respect (for there but for the grace of God...) although they did not wear our colours remember too.
My prayers go out to the SURVIVORS.
We still sing and we still shout and we still wave our flags high in the air. Just like we always did because we are survivors and those that didn't survive with us would do the same for us if we were not the survivors.
 :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf
« Last Edit: April 15, 2006, 04:49:45 AM by 2dogs in LA »
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Offline Oddbod

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2006, 10:00:48 AM »
I was one of the lucky ones. Went to the 1988 & 1990 semis, but couldn't get a ticket for the 1989 one cos my season ticket ended in a 9 and 8 & 9 werent given tickets that year.

May they all Rest In Peace.

Offline Arthurs Bar

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2006, 04:36:32 AM »
Sometimes it's comforting to hear people give their account which mirrors your own. To be fair to this board I couldn't talk about it in to much detail. I talk a bit but not about what deeply effects me. Why? I don't know. I have bottled this up ever since. Every year I go thru the same grief and keep it well hidden from my family and friends. They all know, my wife will ask, but the old scouse mentality of I can handle it and just get on with it, comes from within and refuses help.

I have lived away for over a decade and a half in the "land of the psychologist" who would go for treatment if they lost their dinner to the dog but in all that time I am still not swayed to go into it in a lot of detail and I can't do it.

But here's as far as it goes........I was in the pen that day, being crushed not able to move. The barrier that gave way was no more than 4-5 feet away to my right. I knew the people in front of it had no chance due to the shear weight and force, my school mate was in that. I could have been standing there, I wasn't, I lived. How I fought my way to the back to be pulled up I, to this day, will never know.

On the Sunday I got told my friend died, on the Monday I was on the front page of the Daily mirror with thousands of others. My dad gave it to me in the morning with a look I will never forget, my mother, well you know.... but I couldn't see me mate. School let me do whatever I wanted. I failed my A-levels and the summer of 89 wasn't a nice one......one I tried to forget with the influence of alcohol. My 18th at the end of the summer was, well, lets just say one to forget. Mt friends didn't know what to do. I was so easy going before Hillsborough but I no longer wanted to laugh, crack a joke or entertain. I couldn't play footy (my passion) until the P.E. teacher persuaded me to play in the final in June (I believe). I was sh**e. Waste of space..... my life was engrossed in being depressed.

When I've been home at Christmas I go the match and pass the HJC shop and don't go in just in case someone see's me and questions the situation. I pass the memorial but can only glance at it trying not to let my mates or father see me looking in case they start to get on to it. I read the articles of the players and the families and think to myself maybe I should shut the f**k up and help them. They are a lot worse than me. I have to got to get on with it....17 years for Christ's sake!

I've just realized I'm on one right now.....sorry.

Justice for the 96 and sympathy for the ones that live with this every day, week, month and year.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2006, 04:51:04 AM by Arthurs Bar »

Offline Branno

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2006, 05:01:20 AM »
AB...I know where you are coming from mate! This is the first year I have been in a real state......got on the phone to the UK whilst pissed and emotional, dont even remember what I said!

All I know is that I have received a load of calls back since making sure I'm alright....'You should get counselling son' my Mum said today. I should have got it 17 years ago!!!

But letting it all out is the best self counselling I have done for years....at last I didnt bottle it up, at last people around me really got to see what Ive been going through for 17 years. At last Im taking these 'demons' on and know I will be alright!

Sharing accounts with people who where there for me has at last made me realise Im not alone....and neither are you mate  :wave

Its true the older you get the more emotional you get......I think I am finally growing up at the ripe old age of 35 :-\
"I know this is a sad occasion but I think that Dixie would be amazed to know that even in death he could draw a bigger crowd than Everton can on a Saturday afternoon"......Bill Shankly

Offline Glorious Future

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2006, 10:40:17 AM »
Thanks for those posts. You are all brave people to post them, and know that the feelings you have are not 'weird', 'mad', 'screwy' or described by any other derogatory adjective.

Hillsborough IS principally about the 96 souls that were lost that day. We are, however, brothers and sisters in arms for those people that we carry in our thoughts every day of our lives. We have a legacy, and an important message to pass on through generations.

But principally, my concern is, that there are those who, before they can strengthen in heart soul and mind, and carry that message on, must first heal severe wounds. For many this is a process that may only just have started.

I have had some communication from rawk staff who have suggested a way forward about this, and I'll be looking into the possibility of setting up a WEB SITE that will be for survivors and those significantly affected by Hillsborough.

I feel obliged to once again emphasise that this would in no way be contrary to anything done by the HJC, and would very simply be a 'place' for people to go in the safety of knowing their thoughts were respected, valued and treated with sensitivity.

Cheers.
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http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/

Offline cowlos

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2006, 11:25:20 PM »
This post needs more entries. I don't know how Glofut has got on with getting a personal forum but it might be that the amount of responses to this sort of topic will decide it. It's obvious how many of  us there are trawling through here on a daily basis. It's also obvious that most of us are in a position of just keeping it all in unless the right person or time comes up.
I know that I haven't been on the site as long as a lot of you, but it seems there are a lot of us out there all dealing with this day to day and in need of something like this.
I have read so many accounts that I think, bollocks that's me! it's frightening .
Let's try and keep the interest in this up so that we can see if this idea can come to something

Offline Mr Mojo Risin'

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2006, 10:15:34 AM »
Branno,i thought i was pretty young at 20, so it was no doubt worse for you and other younger ones.
It's been a long time,and neither has there been justice for the 96, or any sort of outlet for the 'surviveing ones'
Hope you are well , and seeing things in a bit more clearer light, now you,we,are getting older and hopefully more thoughtful.
God bless you,and everyone else, and R.I.P the never forgotten 96.
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Offline Glorious Future

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2006, 12:11:24 PM »
In case anyone's reading this, and those who have posted, I haven't forgotten this, and I'm reminded, as no doubt you are, of those feelings on occasions you mightn't expect it. I dropped my kids off at the ex's today, and we chatted football (unusually), Michael Owen, etc .. she said she mostly won't watch the football, as she has strong (negative) feelings about it. She also told me months ago that she did watch the CL final last year, and was in bits / tears etc ... like I was in Istanbul. I feel for her, becuase she lived with the sh*t. That's why we split. I'm not doing a splurge about it all, I'm just reminded that it doesn't just go away because of years, or events. And I'm reminded that we should be able to be together in some way when it's needed.

This site and others offer that in some way, but I think others are aware that for those who want to be totally candid about it it requires a bit of privacy of some sort. Not exclusive, just 'dedicated' I suppose.

Anyway, just wanted to let those who are interested that this hasn't gone away, and I'm still going to get something together. With your help!    :wave
Faith is a passionate intuition.

http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/

Offline -HH-

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2006, 09:42:38 PM »
Wrote this a couple of years ago...

Survivor

You were at that game, did what you could,
You tried to help, you understood.
Or you lay there helpless with injuries of your own,
As you watched tears falling from men fully grown.

How did you feel when you couldn't find your mate?
Did you feel guilt that you didn't share his fate?
How did you feel when you couldn't find your bud?
And later, when McKenzie dragged your name through the mud?

For some time you fight on feeling always alone,
Feelings of guilt most will never have known.
You try to tell people of how much you've cried,
But they cast you away, none of your family died.

You were told for so long that you don't understand the pain,
Of the lives that were taken at Leppings Lane.
Deep down you used to feel that you should have died,
Is it any wonder some were driven to suicide?

With the things that you saw, the pain in the eyes
Of the young lad who was next to you, whose mother still cries.
There are ninety-six who are never forgotten,
But how far the cost spreads makes me feel rotten.

So for the families of the dead I always pray,
And for the lives that were lost that day.
And while I do, I offer up another prayer,
Lord please watch over those who were there.

Please watch over the man who was stood in that stand,
Who tried desperately to grab hold of that young lad's hand.
So many people left counting the cost,
And Liverpool cries for the lives that it lost.
Balotelli, Falcao, Cavani...

I'll be shocked if it's anyone other Etoo. Etoo or no-one. Simples.

In fact, I'll do you all a favor and ban myself from the January transfer window forum if we get anyone other than Etoo.

Offline cowlos

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2006, 11:09:35 AM »
Good poem, gave me goose bumps reading it. A lot in there that makes sense to survivors :wellin

Offline the invisible man

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2006, 03:54:05 AM »
 :wave

hi guys, yes it does make sense to some surviors, and there is nothing you write or say or feel that is not good enough to put here.


We are all one and you can say whatever you like and it doesn't matter what it is as. We don't have anyone to appologise to so please tell us your story, please let us all know how you feel, the youth of today need to know how real it was, and not just another story...

Peace, love, honour & respect to you all, and Justice for the 96...


visit this site and leave a comment...

http://uk.blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-gB0tiWA7brXUh8u2MEN1PMKVqVwIBObJUxtYqBvQdGAsgi6kBsFk


johnlemmon... 8)


t.i.m...

Offline Glorious Future

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2006, 04:41:53 PM »
Excellent poem -HH-.

Thanks for posting it.
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Offline In Fowler We Trust

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2006, 10:33:40 AM »
Wrote this a couple of years ago...

Survivor

You were at that game, did what you could,
You tried to help, you understood.
Or you lay there helpless with injuries of your own,
As you watched tears falling from men fully grown.

How did you feel when you couldn't find your mate?
Did you feel guilt that you didn't share his fate?
How did you feel when you couldn't find your bud?
And later, when McKenzie dragged your name through the mud?

For some time you fight on feeling always alone,
Feelings of guilt most will never have known.
You try to tell people of how much you've cried,
But they cast you away, none of your family died.

You were told for so long that you don't understand the pain,
Of the lives that were taken at Leppings Lane.
Deep down you used to feel that you should have died,
Is it any wonder some were driven to suicide?

With the things that you saw, the pain in the eyes
Of the young lad who was next to you, whose mother still cries.
There are ninety-six who are never forgotten,
But how far the cost spreads makes me feel rotten.

So for the families of the dead I always pray,
And for the lives that were lost that day.
And while I do, I offer up another prayer,
Lord please watch over those who were there.

Please watch over the man who was stood in that stand,
Who tried desperately to grab hold of that young lad's hand.
So many people left counting the cost,
And Liverpool cries for the lives that it lost.

Absolutely beautiful and very moving - sums up how those who survived perfectly
"If you can't say anything nice, don't say nothing at all"  Thumper (1942)

Justice for the 96

I'm a Believer

Offline the invisible man

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2006, 09:30:49 AM »
we still love honour & miss our 96 friends...

we must keep up the search for justice...

Lemmo... :(
t.i.m...

Offline Boston-Sox

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2006, 01:06:11 PM »
I know you want me to tell my story lemmo but i still consider im very lucky thousands in the world have no one but i still have friends,God bles the 96

Offline xavidub

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #21 on: September 1, 2006, 05:32:32 PM »
The survivors are all of us that were there. All the families at home watching all unfold on live TV not knowing, as my mother, if their son, husband, daughter, wife, cousin or friend was one of those being carried on an advertising hording with a coat on their head with a bare arm bouncing in the sunshine are survivors. The heroes that fought the police just to try to allow the faces in front of them turning blue a saving breath of air are survivors. The police that defied orders to beat us back into that cage of death and tried to drag stiffening bodies from the hell are survivors.
Survivors of a tragedy that did not need to happen. Survivors of an event that changed our view of life forever.
We are the survivors. Remember us, everybody, because without the dead and survivors we may all still watch "the beautiful game" from behind electrified barbed-wire fences and have no respect greater than an animal being herded without care into "PENS".
Today is an emotional day. This time it is also Easter. A time to remember and grow has never been so relevent to me personally.
I hope those that laid down their scarves in respect (for there but for the grace of God...) although they did not wear our colours remember too.
My prayers go out to the SURVIVORS.
We still sing and we still shout and we still wave our flags high in the air. Just like we always did because we are survivors and those that didn't survive with us would do the same for us if we were not the survivors.
 :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf


Well said mate
You have to try very hard to see what's going on in front of your face

Offline the invisible man

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #22 on: September 5, 2006, 02:00:25 PM »
 :wave

beautiful words...

you are all heroes, there could have been many more...

Love , honour & respect...for the 96...

Lemmo
t.i.m...

Offline Glorious Future

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2006, 07:13:19 PM »
Well, here we are and it's October. 6 months either side of April. Seems long away, I suppose, and some will be thankful for that. But we know it comes again, and again, and thank God it does really. We can always mark their going, there temporary departure from us.

I believe we'll meet them again.

And at this time, though I feel Ive failed in the idea to raise a web site or something to be a place for people, I havent forgotten the need and the importance as I see it. I have people, some people, who know of what goes on in our heads at times, and they are priceless in this life. But there must be people out there who on that day, in April, in particular, feel alone, and I don't want that to be the case. In fact any time of the year.

At this point, so I dont despair at my inability to sort something out up to now, Im going just put it out there that ANYONE who, at any match, or on the 15th or thereabouts, wants to meet up for a beer and a chat, I'll be there at wherever it is people'd want to meet.

To get this started, I'll hopefully be meeting one of our fellow RAWKites at the Bordeaux match for a beer. It won't be a mad one, cos I have to get home handy and to bed after   :) - it'd be before the match. But as a first thing, it'd be a good start. After that, who knows.

Anyway, as long as our fellow RAWKite agrees and wants to make it (you know who you are  ;) ), I'll suggest the Sandon - more space there than anywhere else, and it was part of the beginnings of our club, so seems appropriate. And I believe Houlding said there that "I'm here on a trial, and a criminal never takes the chair" If you feel anything like me, there'll be no chair at our 'meetings'.  ???

Anyway, again  ::) Im suggesting the Sandon, in the back bar with the big screen - at the bar of course  ;D - and Ill be wearing a red carnation... no I wont. Ill be the tired looking heap with me white trainees and a pint (ok, that could be any 40,000 of us...) - - anyway, Ill be there, and Ill be the dark haired weird fella with a scowl on me face - er not helping here. How do you do anonymous meetings? Anyone?  :D

So as it is, Ill be at the Sandon, at 6.30 say, and Ill be noticeable by either the forlorn withdrawal of a strange one, or manic rantings about footy and life in general, with our fellow RAWKite hopefully. Dont get out much me you know.  8)

Bordeaux - 31st October - 6.30 - Sandon. If you want to PM me, Ill give you me mobile number - saves the ridiculous identification lark.
Faith is a passionate intuition.

http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/

Offline cowlos

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2006, 07:36:28 AM »
Glofut, I'll PM you as well, but I'll meet you in there. Mine's a Guinness in case your first. Anyone else that wants to meet up you're welcome. Either post or PM Glofut or me :wave
« Last Edit: October 11, 2006, 04:45:59 PM by cowlos »

Offline the invisible man

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2006, 02:12:30 PM »
And at this time, though I feel Ive failed in the idea to raise a web site or something to be a place for people, I havent forgotten the need and the importance as I see it. I have people, some people, who know of what goes on in our heads at times, and they are priceless in this life. But there must be people out there who on that day, in April, in particular, feel alone, and I don't want that to be the case. In fact any time of the year.

At this point, so I dont despair at my inability to sort something out up to now, Im going just put it out there that ANYONE who, at any match, or on the 15th or thereabouts, wants to meet up for a beer and a chat, I'll be there at wherever it is people'd want to meet.

To get this started, I'll hopefully be meeting one of our fellow RAWKites at the Bordeaux match for a beer. It won't be a mad one, cos I have to get home handy and to bed after    - it'd be before the match. But as a first thing, it'd be a good start. After that, who knows.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hey Glorious mate, if you look at the book we are compiling for the families of the 96...

I know a few people who feel the same way as you do..

I am currently in Australia but am coming home soon after 15 years OOT...

I am trying to set up a project which would be of some use to you & the others who wanted somewhere to go...

if you are interested in my ideas & plans, give me a PM or email...

walsh9999@hotmail.com   anytime...justice for all...

http://96plus.zoomshare.com/0.html

Lemmo... :wave 
t.i.m...

Offline Glorious Future

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2006, 08:38:13 PM »
Glofut, I'll PM you as well, but I'll meet you in there. Mine's a Guinness in case your first. Anyone else that wants to meet up you're welcome. Either post or PM Glofut or me :wave

Guiness it is then - Ill try to outwit you to who's buying the first one then - Ill be there around your time + 2minutes. Mines an ald Carlsberg mate.

Kiddin - see you there.

And cheers, Invisible, mate - Ill check that out and drop you a line as soon as.

Ta. Keep the faith.  :wave
Faith is a passionate intuition.

http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/

Offline the invisible man

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2006, 08:26:35 AM »
 :wave

we need to keep the faith all right, especially with Fucking shite gob McKenzie shouting his fucking dirty mouth off again.. :no >:(

drop me a line anytime..
 :wave
Lemmo...
t.i.m...

Offline Kav

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2006, 03:25:32 PM »
I don't do too much over the internet. I'm gonna print all of the above posts off and read them on the bus home tonight. Survivor's issues never go away but we can handle them better. Anything that helps anybody who needs it is sound by me. Its nice to know that people care and understand. My story has already been on this site (and others). I'll be back in touch soon.
Walk on...

Offline the invisible man

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2006, 11:30:04 PM »
 :wave

well in there Kav lad...

we are always thinking of our 96 friends and those who were there....

all the best for the New Year for you & yours...

love honour & respect...

Lemmo... :wave
t.i.m...

Offline Glorious Future

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #30 on: January 1, 2007, 03:54:13 AM »
I don't do too much over the internet. I'm gonna print all of the above posts off and read them on the bus home tonight. Survivor's issues never go away but we can handle them better. Anything that helps anybody who needs it is sound by me. Its nice to know that people care and understand. My story has already been on this site (and others). I'll be back in touch soon.

Well in Kav mate. You're right, there are people who care and understand. Ive met and/or talked with some off here, and nicer people I could not meet.
Faith is a passionate intuition.

http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/

Offline Kav

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #31 on: January 2, 2007, 02:31:34 PM »
I’ve had chance to have a read of the above posts. Very moving; as it always is to listen to people affected in the way we are. It’s a good idea to give survivors a place to talk to each other. When I was first offered counselling I knocked it back, but it was clear soon after that I needed it. I got home drunk one night in April or May 1989 and called one of the help-lines that had been set up and things went from there. I had already found some solace in knowing that there were so many people who cared so much. It was never a problem talking about things for me. I’m lucky to have a lot of people close enough to me I can turn to on this (or any) subject. I know a lot of people directly affected by Hillsborough and it’s good to know people who really understand the depth of our feelings. I’ve got a lot of sympathy for those who have bottled-up or blocked out things. If you lock it up, it won’t go away. It’ll seep out or one day it’ll explode out of you. I know everybody deals with things in their own way. It isn’t maths so there’s no one right or wrong way of doing it. What I’m certain of is though, that whether you do it early or you do it late you have got to talk about it… and talking about it will help in the long run. Don’t get me wrong, I know that talking about things does stir up emotions. I was encouraged to write about my experiences for the Hillsborough Justice Campaign website www.contrast.org/hillsborough/history/kav.shtm which knocked me on my arse for a bit if I’m honest -  but I’m glad I did it now. I’d encourage any survivor to do the same. The benefits are two-fold; it helps you and it helps others who read what you’ve written. The HJC site is excellent. It tells the story of what happened and pulls no punches. It will be read for many years to come and will give people the truth if they want to know it. I was a mess in the early years. I was a young lad with no responsibilities when it happened… which probably makes it harder to handle as daft as that sounds. Recovery for me was a gradual process. We’ll never get over what happened but we can learn to live with it. As desperate as things get, we can always recover – we just need a little help along the way. The likes of this thread can be the start for some survivors helping each other. It’s taken courage to come up with this idea and then for people to post. Well in.
Walk on...

Offline Glorious Future

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #32 on: January 2, 2007, 04:48:52 PM »
I’ve had chance to have a read of the above posts. Very moving; as it always is to listen to people affected in the way we are. It’s a good idea to give survivors a place to talk to each other. When I was first offered counselling I knocked it back, but it was clear soon after that I needed it. I got home drunk one night in April or May 1989 and called one of the help-lines that had been set up and things went from there. I had already found some solace in knowing that there were so many people who cared so much. It was never a problem talking about things for me. I’m lucky to have a lot of people close enough to me I can turn to on this (or any) subject. I know a lot of people directly affected by Hillsborough and it’s good to know people who really understand the depth of our feelings. I’ve got a lot of sympathy for those who have bottled-up or blocked out things. If you lock it up, it won’t go away. It’ll seep out or one day it’ll explode out of you. I know everybody deals with things in their own way. It isn’t maths so there’s no one right or wrong way of doing it. What I’m certain of is though, that whether you do it early or you do it late you have got to talk about it… and talking about it will help in the long run. Don’t get me wrong, I know that talking about things does stir up emotions. I was encouraged to write about my experiences for the Hillsborough Justice Campaign website www.contrast.org/hillsborough/history/kav.shtm which knocked me on my arse for a bit if I’m honest -  but I’m glad I did it now. I’d encourage any survivor to do the same. The benefits are two-fold; it helps you and it helps others who read what you’ve written. The HJC site is excellent. It tells the story of what happened and pulls no punches. It will be read for many years to come and will give people the truth if they want to know it. I was a mess in the early years. I was a young lad with no responsibilities when it happened… which probably makes it harder to handle as daft as that sounds. Recovery for me was a gradual process. We’ll never get over what happened but we can learn to live with it. As desperate as things get, we can always recover – we just need a little help along the way. The likes of this thread can be the start for some survivors helping each other. It’s taken courage to come up with this idea and then for people to post. Well in.

Thanks for posting Kav. Ive read some of your stuff and was always amazed how accurately you recounted stuff that I had blocked out. I think we're about the same age so I related to what you said even more than some other things. I see what you mean about 'responsibilities' - I wish in a way I'd had more 'responsibilities' at the time - I was at uni and the first few months back in London after the Easter holiday were like a personal horror movie (but that's another story) - it wouldve been nice to have had a wife and kids maybe, I don't know. Someone you're close to, who knows who you were before that day. My family learned more about me after that day than they had in the 19 years before, but unfortunately some of it wasn't what I wanted to be me, and only I knew it hadn't been there before. I still to this day struggle to explain to people what I feel, only to people who I really trust, or (semi-) anonomously like here. And it's hard to be close to people if you don't tell them what's inside. Chicken and Egg. I ended up marrying someone who I hid it all from, like I was ashamed. As you say Kav, the inevitable happened, and it all came out, all wrong, all screwed up. I couldn't explain anything, I was just a nervous mess. I was certain no one would want to be with anyone who had that stuff inside, and who'd had it for so long. Alas, she went; she wasn't my saviour that's for sure!

Theres so much to say, so little reason sometimes to see why to say it. I told myself for years 'no one wants to know'. 'No one wants to hear this shit'. But it had its own way of showing itself everytime I thought Id 'beaten' it and that was usually when I got any where near where I'd been before that day. So much to say!

Anyway, it seems timely to suggest that anyone who wants to could meet for a beer before the Arsenal FA cup game on Saturday. I did offer to help with the leaflets being handed out, and I know that was at the Arkles (unless its been changed). I'm hoping cowlos is meeting up (I WILL be there this time cowlos) and it seems appropriate given its TRUTH DAY for anyone who wants a beer to meet; just a quiet or quick chat would do it, just to see faces, say hello, and see if meeting for beers at other games etc might be a good idea. ??

Anyway, let me know.     :wave
Faith is a passionate intuition.

http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/

Offline the invisible man

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #33 on: January 2, 2007, 10:56:19 PM »
keep spreading the word lads, well in Kav...

Glorious future mate, keep gpoing, the truth will come out and then justice will be done...


JFT96...

Lemmo...
t.i.m...

Offline Glorious Future

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #34 on: January 3, 2007, 07:44:48 AM »
keep spreading the word lads, well in Kav...

Glorious future mate, keep gpoing, the truth will come out and then justice will be done...


JFT96...

Lemmo...

Thanks Lemmo.   :)
Faith is a passionate intuition.

http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/

Offline Swoop

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #35 on: January 3, 2007, 10:29:03 AM »
Like many I didn’t, still don’t consider myself a survivor, I was in the West Stand and came out to do what I could and look for my family who were in the Leppings lane.  My memories pretty much stop once I crossed the halfway line.

The whole having responsibilities was a bit of a double edged sword for me.  I was married and in the Army at the time. 

I started a course on the 24th so that meant I could lose myself in the job for 3 weeks and with the guys coming from all over the place I was the only Liverpool lad there, so the subject never really came up.

Problem for me was this allowed me to bury it all, push it all aside, get drunk every night and do all the usual stuff the military mindset encourages.  By the time I came back from the course the damage was done.  I had put up a wall which no-one was getting through, especially the wife. So she had to put up with an emotionally unattached husband, that obviously didn’t last, so she pretty soon became the ex. 

I have written elsewhere, briefly.  All I will say here is that if you where there and you have never really dealt with it, even too yourself, be careful.  Brick walls a great at stopping you getting hurt, but they don’t let much else get through either, it’s a lonely place behind your wall.

Its a dogs life for me

Offline Branno

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #36 on: January 3, 2007, 05:06:09 PM »
All I will say here is that if you where there and you have never really dealt with it, even too yourself, be careful.  Brick walls a great at stopping you getting hurt, but they don’t let much else get through either, it’s a lonely place behind your wall.

Oh so true mate! So true !!
"I know this is a sad occasion but I think that Dixie would be amazed to know that even in death he could draw a bigger crowd than Everton can on a Saturday afternoon"......Bill Shankly

Offline cowtownred

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #37 on: January 3, 2007, 11:13:30 PM »
I'd be proud to have a beer with any of you guys on Saturday.

Matter of fact Swoop and I will be together in any case.

And will be at the Arkles for 3pm.

Privilege to get the pints in  :wave

Will PM my moby for ease of contact.

Offline In Fowler We Trust

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #38 on: January 3, 2007, 11:18:30 PM »
Like many I didn’t, still don’t consider myself a survivor, I was in the West Stand and came out to do what I could and look for my family who were in the Leppings lane.  My memories pretty much stop once I crossed the halfway line.

The whole having responsibilities was a bit of a double edged sword for me.  I was married and in the Army at the time. 

I started a course on the 24th so that meant I could lose myself in the job for 3 weeks and with the guys coming from all over the place I was the only Liverpool lad there, so the subject never really came up.

Problem for me was this allowed me to bury it all, push it all aside, get drunk every night and do all the usual stuff the military mindset encourages.  By the time I came back from the course the damage was done.  I had put up a wall which no-one was getting through, especially the wife. So she had to put up with an emotionally unattached husband, that obviously didn’t last, so she pretty soon became the ex. 

I have written elsewhere, briefly.  All I will say here is that if you where there and you have never really dealt with it, even too yourself, be careful.  Brick walls a great at stopping you getting hurt, but they don’t let much else get through either, it’s a lonely place behind your wall.



that moved me to tears that because that's exactly how my husband (now ex but still very much loved) was after Hillsborough - even after loads of counselling he still had the wall up and it has never really come down
« Last Edit: January 3, 2007, 11:26:49 PM by In Fowler we trust »
"If you can't say anything nice, don't say nothing at all"  Thumper (1942)

Justice for the 96

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Offline the invisible man

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #39 on: January 5, 2007, 06:24:54 AM »
time for the wall to come down...

you brave people are just normal regular people who have no need to fear or as some do, feel guilt...

the whole process of grief is hard when there is a disaster or a tragedy... we all feel some sort of guilt and hate ourselves sometimes wondering if we could have done more..

You alll did all you could...

The efforts of the many supporters who were there that day saved many many more lives being lost, so please, please let this be the time for all walls to come down. It was not your fault... those who made this happen will come to justice one day.. till then...

The fight for justice will continue and those who care will always care, so join together in unity and happiness for the bright memory of the 96 and the future of all who walk throught the gates of not only Anfield but any football ground anywhere in the world.

We don't expect tragedy when we just go out for a pint or to the movies or to the match...

be proud that you were there, be proud that you did all you could under those very stressful circumstances. ..

you are all heroes and you are all human... time for the walls to come down...

Lemmo...
t.i.m...