Topic: Texas Hold 'Em Poker Tips

[Dermot]

Ok guys I have a question.

You'd only play a stupid hand like that if you were on the big blind and nobody raises. Your man got shit lucky tho after making a stupid call.

[AdamL]

so he won the hand with a pair of twos? was he ever challenged with a good sized raise? surely he wouldn't have stood up to a raise of any size whatsoever with 4 overcards on the table? at any point did anyone act like they had him beat? it was terrible play from him, but it was dreadful play from the other players who stayed in till the end with nothing else but high cards.

[COR]

I think you're too quick to judge the guy, maybe he is an idiot but this is only one hand, and it's either an idiot who just lucky or he's a manipulative genius. By the looks of it, with a K and Q and no one really pushing the hand, he could've sensed a bit of weakness. In that circumstance, by playing it right he could have scared anyone off as long as no one has trips or a King with a high kicker (an opinion he could've gained quite easily from detecting weakness earlier on in the hand and also from previous hands, maybe he knows the players he's left with aren't likely to slow play or lay a trap).

Sometimes you can tell when a bet or raise is just for show, if that was the very first hand of the game then the guy is a total and lucky idiot, if it wasn't, fair fucks to him, sometimes you have to take risks.

By the way, it's the other players who were stupid. They could have got him out of the hand if they'd represented the King properly, no point bluffing if you aren't willing to bluff properly, give your opponent something to think about. If they just raised ever so slightly, then they're either slow playing or bluffing, by calling their bet he was testing to see which. No doubt he figured out which it was next time the bets came round.

Or he was just one lucky son of a bitch

[bradigor]

Right enough of coaching Phil on how to play poker.

I am getting back in the game on Betfair. Online isn't really my game but I am confident I can come away with decent profits over the course of the next month.

[PaulF]

Would love to see Rafa play poker.

[Throxenby]

Would love to see Rafa play poker.

well he, got the midget to put a winning hand down.

[Dermot]

Would love to see Rafa play poker.

Ohh for sure the poshibilities.

[bradigor]

Anyone fancy making me a present

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Build-your-own-Poker-table-Step-by-step-illustrated_W0QQitemZ170007304833QQihZ007QQcategoryZ35749QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Dermot]

Anyone fancy making me a present

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Build-your-own-Poker-table-Step-by-step-illustrated_W0QQitemZ170007304833QQihZ007QQcategoryZ35749QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 . For a good carpenter there is money to be made there.

[bradigor]

Serious question here.

How many Harringtons are there on RAWK now? Seems to be the book of choice for most people.

[PaulF]

Half way through volume one. On holiday next week so I expect to have read them both. Although I am quite disciplined at working through the sample hands, so I may spend ages on those.

His general points seem to be the most useful bit though, and I think I mentioned it before, but I played one tourney not long ago that followed the book to the letter.

Have you read it Brad?

[bradigor]

Have you read it Brad?

Nope and I don't intend to either. Not being snobbish but I am self taught and I don't want my game style clouded by another persons strategy.
Playing live and watching Late Night Poker as much as possible a few years back helped me understand the game. The strategy I have, I taught myself

[Hightown Phil]

In all honesty mate, you need all the help you can get.

[Mivi]

Nope and I don't intend to either. Not being snobbish but I am self taught and I don't want my game style clouded by another persons strategy.

The fella has 2 WSOP bracelets and the book is the one the Pro's swear by.
I suggest you think again and try it out....

[PaulF]

As I said to COR, understanding your own system is almost certainly better than learning someone else's.

[bradigor]

The fella has 2 WSOP bracelets and the book is the one the Pro's swear by.
I suggest you think again and try it out....

However I don't want to play like everyone else. I ave taught myself and i am happy with that

[bradigor]

Just picked up a nice 2nd place finish, played it steady had no choice but to play a pair of 10's heads up, lost to JJ on the turn

[PaulF]

However I don't want to play like everyone else. I ave taught myself and i am happy with that

The books probably tell us little you haven't figured out for yourself.

[COR]

Finally got pokerroom working! Are we getting a mid week game this week? I'm up for it whenever.

[Fairytale of 2005]

so he won the hand with a pair of twos? was he ever challenged with a good sized raise? surely he wouldn't have stood up to a raise of any size whatsoever with 4 overcards on the table? at any point did anyone act like they had him beat? it was terrible play from him, but it was dreadful play from the other players who stayed in till the end with nothing else but high cards.

Yeah someone raised on the turn, which would indicate a higher pair than he had. All 3 of the guys who played kept betting & calling with shaft all. Then when I decided to point out the fact that they were tools, they took offence & said I didn't know how to play. I could kinda understand someone staying in with nothing against one hand, but against 2, seemed foolish to me, but thought I'd ask.

[SM Online]

Hi ,how do you spot weak and strong players online? What constitutes a weak or a strong play?

Usually when I'm playing online I won't pay attention untill it's my turn to act, usually I'll do something else at the same time and untill now playing tournaments with small buy ins I've been doing alright making a small profit but now I want to start playing in ring games stealing chips off the weak players, avoiding the strong players etc.

[COR]

Hi ,how do you spot weak and strong players online? What constitutes a weak or a strong play?

Usually when I'm playing online I won't pay attention untill it's my turn to act, usually I'll do something else at the same time and untill now playing tournaments with small buy ins I've been doing alright making a small profit but now I want to start playing in ring games stealing chips off the weak players, avoiding the strong players etc.

It's the same as in a tournement, the weaker players generally play too many hands and usually have a very rigid playing style, which if you watch for long enough you can pick up their patterns and learn when to call and when to fold. Playing ring games you have to be very tight, because you're likely to always be playing up against 10. Only raise pre flop if you have an Ace and a good kicker, or an ace with another card suited, or obviously a pocket pair. You can limp in specuatively with worse hands by calling the bet but don't lose your game. If you have a K 9 and you're first to call the blind, fold. If someone raises the blind after you called it earlier, you don't want to get suckered into continuing just because you've already made som committment tot he pot.

You can win a lot on ring games if you're happy to be a boring bastard and use position and pot odds to influence your decisions. Reading the opponent is a bonus, but as it's online and because they'll be ever changing, it isn't that essential as it's as useless for everyone else as it is for you.

[PaulF]

you don't want to get suckered into continuing just because you've already made som committment tot he pot.

I've just read this bit in Harrington, The trick is not to get yourself into a corner of playing a position with a crap hand. If the pot odds support you staying, despite your bad move , apparently you should stay in.  Although if you've raised with something poor and a bunch of other hands have come in, you can only assume they are strong. It then seems very unlikely you'll beat them. I suppose this is how the pot odds work, if you played crap, you'll need very long odds to stay in.

Just finished 6th, then first in a couple of tourneys. I reckon I played about 15 hands. It took ages to get rid of the fifth player. By the time we were down to the last 3, I had 8000 chips !!!! The other two had to go all in just to call
The key is definitely to sit tight, although it is boring as hell, you can liven it up with some chat at the table, filing your bills and other stuff.

Bridagor, how do you play against people who will only play premium hands? ie ultra tight ones? The books recommend loosening up a bit and stealing blinds. But this depends on you having decent cards and position and can take ages. Have you found a better way to build your chip stack once in the last 5?

[SM Online]

It's the same as in a tournement, the weaker players generally play too many hands and usually have a very rigid playing style, which if you watch for long enough you can pick up their patterns and learn when to call and when to fold. Playing ring games you have to be very tight, because you're likely to always be playing up against 10. Only raise pre flop if you have an Ace and a good kicker, or an ace with another card suited, or obviously a pocket pair. You can limp in specuatively with worse hands by calling the bet but don't lose your game. If you have a K 9 and you're first to call the blind, fold. If someone raises the blind after you called it earlier, you don't want to get suckered into continuing just because you've already made som committment tot he pot.

You can win a lot on ring games if you're happy to be a boring bastard and use position and pot odds to influence your decisions. Reading the opponent is a bonus, but as it's online and because they'll be ever changing, it isn't that essential as it's as useless for everyone else as it is for you.

Cheers, so basically the weak players are the ones playing a lot of hands and calling with shit cards etc. I'm a bastard for calling a raise pre-flop when I've already invested in the pot, it's my mates fault when I first learned he was always like you may as well as call it's only another 15? chips, next thing I know I'm calling bets of 100+ 

PaulF whats your name on Betfair, the other day I was on a table with someone called PaulLFC or something like that he was from MK which I presume stands for Milton Keynes (that's where you're from right? according to your profile anyway)

[PaulF]

I'm from Milton Keynes, yes. But my betfair tag is paulypaul.
You are unlikely to find me at a ring table these days. At least with tourney's my loss per hour is reasonably limited!

[PaulF]

Good idea blur, this is a great way to look at things.

Here is my stab at it, feel free to pick it to bits!

My guess is Player A has J6, while Player B has AJ.



Reasoning.

PreFlop

AJ is fine to raise with in mid position.
J6 is probably a bit dodgy to call in an early position, but not a freak call. Possibly they were suited?

Player A could have stayed in after the raise if the pot was big enough. I personally would have got out. (more due to my personality,  I don't know if it's recommended). If the pot odds were there I might have stayed, presumably this only would have happened if they were suited?


Flop
Player A sees his two pair and rightly goes for the kill. Player B can probably put Player A on J6 at this point (JJ is unlikely as he'd see a pre flop raise, using the 5,6 to hit a straight should have seen a pre-flop fold). Player B I guess has pot odds to make his Ace (although in my head he wouldn't have, but then I've become too reliant on poker-spy).

Turn
Player A hits full house and rightly goes for the kill.(at this point he can probably put player B on AJ or KJ).
Player B, well I guess the odds are stacked against him here. Although he knows if he hits that Ace he's on a winner. His preflop raise suggests he might have JJ and so there is the possibilty that Player A will run away (unlikely give the size of the pot, the trouble with ring games is that at this stage it's hard to intimidate someone with a decent hand).

River
Player B whoops and thanks the poker gods.
Player A has probably put B on AJ by now and checks, so he can at least see B without spending too much more money. Player B has no choice really but to bet the £2. Player A should have folded here.


That's made me really think hard. Unfortunately, I went from the end result and deduced my cards from there, then went searching for supporting evidence.  Play from A seems a bit risky (but I am quite conservative) and I could well have got that wrong.

This though is a really good way of thinking about our poker, would anyone have been able to put people on hands sooner, or do we have techniques for doing that? Admittedly in online poker you'd have to think VERY fast to get there.

ps. Not sure Harrington would be so good at ring games. He pays a lot of attention to stack sizes and they aren't relevant here.

pps if anyone else is using poker spy, it'd be good to 'save' a few hands from there for RAWK analysis

ppps I put you on B, if you'd lost that hand, you'd not want to relieve it 
pppps . I was going to play a tourney before anyone else got into the office, but doing all that has saved me an entry fee.

[bradigor]

Best fold I have ever done - £50 buy in 10 man table. Won't go into the betting but at the start I had 7000 in chips and was chip leader, I folder on the river betting after an all in call on 3000

Me - Ah Ac

Flop - Ad As Jd - I raise then call
Turn - 5c - I check the reraise
River - 10d - I fold after other bloke raises all in

Bearing in mind this was a table full of friends when I was living down south, I show what i folded, everyone ripping me for folding 4 of a Kind Aces. Except the winner of the hand

He decides to show his hand - Kd Qd

He wins a relatrively small pot i am left with a gleaming smile.

Hardest decision i have ever made in poker to date was folding 4 of a Kind Aces. However it paid off. Especially when everything was telling me to call.

PS. Should also point out that the lad i was playing was calling straight away everytime, so an all in move at the flop or the turn would of been called by the way he was playing, he had gone from chip leader to short stack and back again on 3 occasions.

[PaulF]

And that is why you should ignore book play. I'm pretty sure all the 'experts' would have played your hand

--EDIT Come to think of it Harrington at least would have more knowledge about his opponent than we can glean from that. Given you are mates and presumably have played a few times together, you've got a better feel for whether he'd bluff that hand --

£50 at stake though, that's some serious wonga mate.

[bradigor]

And that is why you should ignore book play. I'm pretty sure all the 'experts' would have played your hand

£50 at stake though, that's some serious wonga mate.

It was a case of everyone was boasting at how good they were at poker so we decided to test it out, one of game never to be repeated (through fear of fall outs) £50 buy in.

I came 2nd, remember getting fuck all cards while heads up got to about 3000 vs 12000 (approx) got dealt two pic cards off suit, decided it was now or never, ended up being never

still walked away with £175

[bradigor]

--EDIT Come to think of it Harrington at least would have more knowledge about his opponent than we can glean from that. Given you are mates and presumably have played a few times together, you've got a better feel for whether he'd bluff that hand --

Was a hard one, as I said he was so erratic and had earlier made a similar move with 2 pair. There was just something about the look in his eye that told me to fold, I spent 5 mintues staring at the deck and at him trying to work out is he had the Royal Flush or just the Straight.

Also just to add, had it of been an online game I definately would of called. Make of that what you will.

[PaulF]

Good on ya for having the bottle to fold it. Knowing the grief you'd have got is another pressure.
How long have you been playing?

[bradigor]

Good on ya for having the bottle to fold it. Knowing the grief you'd have got is another pressure.
How long have you been playing?

Only showed the hand because it was with mates, not sure if I would of done in a 'pro' game.

I started playing just for fun at 16 while at college after watching late night poker on C4 for the 1st time. Got bored of match sticks so started playing for small stakes about 6 months later. Progressed to weekly poker schools (mainly small stakes) that was Hold Em most of the night mixed with some 3 card Stud.

Played online a fair bit with limited success, however stopped for about a year completely after moving and have started again recently.

In 3 live games against Rawkites I have finished 3rd 2nd 2nd, which will do me as i have gone into the games with limited funds so any win was a win for for me. (Well the last 2 were a win for Lo )

So 7 out of 8 years I have been playing.

[PaulF]

That's quite a lot of experience!!!
You seem to have a pretty good read on people in live games. Make sure you compensate for this lost skill online. I don't know if at the low limits I'm playing at it's worth trying to find a tell in opponents but in a small buy in tournament, there is so much effort involved looking for one that there's far less temptation to play hands because you're bored.

[bradigor]

That's quite a lot of experience!!!
You seem to have a pretty good read on people in live games. Make sure you compensate for this lost skill online. I don't know if at the low limits I'm playing at it's worth trying to find a tell in opponents but in a small buy in tournament, there is so much effort involved looking for one that there's far less temptation to play hands because you're bored.

That for me is one of the major parts of poker right there, as I have mentioned before, the cards are almost irrelavent to me, I play the person 1st then position percentages etc 2nd.

A perfect game of poker involves only showing you hand at all in calls that you knos you have won.

[bradigor]

Was the pot won as follows

Player B - Full House Jacks full of Aces - dealt AJ suited

Player A - 3 of a Kind Jacks - Dealt J (Q K) off suit (10) suited.

Looking at it, player B bet correctly and player A made the mistake at the river and should of got out of there.

Flop he is happy with top pair with a decent kicker above the flopped cards.
Turn - he is commited and has to call the re-raise (especially with a 3 of a Kind)
River - he should have seen a possible Full House with the calling and re-raising.

Player B got it spot on IMHO.

Player A made the mistake at the last get out point

[PaulF]

It's also possible Player A got dealt 66.
The more I look at it, the less I like my original posting. Playing AJ like that goes out on a limb too much.

--  EDIT , leave it a bit longer mate, the regulars on this thread seem to appear later
Feel free to PM me a preview though

--

[PaulF]

I'm liking Brads answer. Would most people feel raising in middle position behinde some callers with AJs is right. Scratch that, of course it is 

[PaulF]

That for me is one of the major parts of poker right there, as I have mentioned before, the cards are almost irrelavent to me, I play the person 1st then position percentages etc 2nd.

A perfect game of poker involves only showing you hand at all in calls that you knos you have won.

That's what I like about poker spy. It's not the players it's got a read on , or has hand info. It's the ones that are all blank and you can tell nothing about them. They are the ones to steer clear of!

[bradigor]

That's what I like about poker spy. It's not the players it's got a read on , or has hand info. It's the ones that are all blank and you can tell nothing about them. They are the ones to steer clear of!

In all honesty I don't get that sort of software one little bit. Surely it is just cheating

[PaulF]

It's in the grey area for sure.
It's no more cheating than keeping a book on players you've seen before though.