Author Topic: (American) College Football (Read 301294 times)

JackBauer · « **Reply #280 on:** September 16, 2008, 05:29:34 pm »

Hang on, you're moving the goalposts now. To the charge that "the Big 10 has no speed" I countered that it sends plenty of players to the NFL, where teams generally don't draft plodding stiffs. That is the same whether we are talking about "skill positions" or not. You have now made the claim that more "skill position players known for their speed" come from other conferences and it's up to you to back that up, not me to disprove it.

The criteria you name are just matters of judgement anyway; how can you quantify whether a player is "known for his speed" or not? Going into the 2005 draft, Troy Williamson was "known for his speed" and Braylon Edwards's 40 time was slower, but who has had the better pro career so far? I know that's only one example, but you can see what I'm getting at.

Frog · « **Reply #281 on:** September 16, 2008, 06:57:51 pm »

Quote from: JackBauer on September 16, 2008, 05:29:34 pm

Hang on, you're moving the goalposts now. To the charge that "the Big 10 has no speed" I countered that it sends plenty of players to the NFL, where teams generally don't draft plodding stiffs. That is the same whether we are talking about "skill positions" or not. You have now made the claim that more "skill position players known for their speed" come from other conferences and it's up to you to back that up, not me to disprove it.

The criteria you name are just matters of judgement anyway; how can you quantify whether a player is "known for his speed" or not? Going into the 2005 draft, Troy Williamson was "known for his speed" and Braylon Edwards's 40 time was slower, but who has had the better pro career so far? I know that's only one example, but you can see what I'm getting at.

The problem with comparing their pro careers is that you can't take that into account when drafting them.

I'd do the leg work, but I'm at work.

Edit:

I know teams don't draft plodding stiffs. When people talk about team speed, it's all about the skill positions (minus the quarterback). Wide outs, running backs, corner backs, safeties, and occasionally line backers.

The over riding stereotype is that the Big Ten doesn't possess this en masse.

All I was saying was let's look at the drafts for a certain time period and compare them.

jerseyhoya · « **Reply #282 on:** September 16, 2008, 11:11:59 pm »

I think so many people have decided the Big Ten is overrated that it's almost underrated now. It's not the best conference in college football, obviously, but it gets taken down too many levels due to OSU getting drubbed by Florida and LSU in those title games.

Penn State is a pretty damn good team this year. Wisconsin just went on the road this weekend and beat Fresno. Ohio State will be alright once they get Beanie Wells back.

They can't hold a candle to the SEC because no one can, but I don't think it's really any worse than any of the other conferences. Maybe this year the Big XII is better because Missouri and Kansas are good, but that's more random than anything. Once Rich Rod gets a year or two under his belt at Michigan, they'll be back to their old selves. The Big XII, ACC, and Pac 10 all have their fair share of patsies. Honest, if you take USC out of the Pac 10, that conference pretty much blows. Didn't they go 0-4 this weekend against the Mountain West schools they played?

Frog · « **Reply #283 on:** September 17, 2008, 02:49:36 am »

I actually have a high regard for the Big Ten (eleven), but I know that part way down the league teams turn to jelly. The same could be said for most leagues, but for each league the point where teams turn to jelly is different.

The Pac 10, I'll use this as an example most often because I went to a Pac 10 school, is so top heavy with USC now that the other teams are kinda suffering because of it. Players want to either play at USC or another conference because they don't want to play against USC every year. Oregon is good, but they are ranked where they should be. ASU might be good. Arizona is on the way up, but they have a long way to go. Cal may be a little higher than ASU, but should be just outside the rankings. UW, WSU, Stanford, OSU, and UCLA are all bad in varying degrees, which sucks for me because I graduated from the UW.

JackBauer · « **Reply #284 on:** September 17, 2008, 09:10:47 am »

Quote from: jerseyhoya on September 16, 2008, 11:11:59 pm

I think so many people have decided the Big Ten is overrated that it's almost underrated now. It's not the best conference in college football, obviously, but it gets taken down too many levels due to OSU getting drubbed by Florida and LSU in those title games.

And that, plus the USC debacle, is what it comes down to. We've let the conference down.

It's never mentioned that in the 2006 season, Big Ten teams won the other two bowl games against SEC opponents. TSUN's win over Florida last year in Lloyd Carr's farewell game gets forgotten too.

Quote from: jerseyhoya on September 16, 2008, 11:11:59 pm

They can't hold a candle to the SEC because no one can, but I don't think it's really any worse than any of the other conferences. Maybe this year the Big XII is better because Missouri and Kansas are good, but that's more random than anything. Once Rich Rod gets a year or two under his belt at Michigan, they'll be back to their old selves. The Big XII, ACC, and Pac 10 all have their fair share of patsies. Honest, if you take USC out of the Pac 10, that conference pretty much blows. Didn't they go 0-4 this weekend against the Mountain West schools they played?

I think that's a fair assessment. The SEC probably has more depth than the other conferences right now and the top teams in the SEC are arguably better than anyone in the country other than USC. I also agree that the Pac 10 without USC is just awful. I am amazed, actually, that UCLA's walloping at the hands of BYU hasn't received more attention.

Vinay · « **Reply #285 on:** September 21, 2008, 12:20:49 am »

Tennessee and Arkansas got turned over very easily today.

nyctex · « **Reply #286 on:** September 21, 2008, 05:29:49 am »

And Texas rolled.

Got to play the Arkansas piggys next week, cause the game was postponed due to hurricane Ike last weekend

Hook'em

jason42 · « **Reply #287 on:** September 21, 2008, 06:10:35 pm »

Just saw the LSU / Auburn game.

When number 84 Amen roughed the quarter back and got penalised 15 yards I thought that it would cost LSU but the very next player he explodes of the line and sacks the quarter back. He probably figured that Les Miles was gonna burn his ass so he decided to sort it out himself.

teganyavo · « **Reply #288 on:** September 21, 2008, 08:20:00 pm »

Quote from: jason23 on September 21, 2008, 06:10:35 pm

Just saw the LSU / Auburn game.

When number 84 Amen roughed the quarter back and got penalised 15 yards I thought that it would cost LSU but the very next player he explodes of the line and sacks the quarter back. He probably figured that Les Miles was gonna burn his ass so he decided to sort it out himself.

I go to Auburn. Sad days

JoeTwerp · « **Reply #289 on:** September 22, 2008, 03:56:40 pm »

cheer up, its just the spread offense growing pains. At least you still have a strong defense.

jerseyhoya · « **Reply #290 on:** September 26, 2008, 05:23:55 am »

Penn State won 45-14 over Oregon State.

Oregon State wins 27-21 over mighty USC.

zeropdd · « **Reply #291 on:** September 26, 2008, 07:28:35 am »

Quote from: jerseyhoya on September 26, 2008, 05:23:55 am

Penn State won 45-14 over Oregon State.

Oregon State wins 27-21 over mighty USC.

What are you going to say when tOSU romps PSU in a few weeks?

Frog · « **Reply #292 on:** September 26, 2008, 04:53:33 pm »

Quote from: zeropdd on September 26, 2008, 07:28:35 am

What are you going to say when OSU romps PSU in a few weeks?

By your reasoning:

Penn State crushed Oregon State
Oregon State beats USC
USC crushed Ohio State

Who will crush who when Penn State plays Ohio State?

jason42 · « **Reply #293 on:** September 26, 2008, 10:40:26 pm »

Big shock loss for USC. Will this affect them going for the National Championship game?

teganyavo · « **Reply #294 on:** September 26, 2008, 11:36:03 pm »

Quote from: JackBauer on September 16, 2008, 11:15:16 am

1. USC are seriously fucking good. If they don't run the table and go to Miami I will want to know why.

No they aren't. USC aren't that good. They're like Florida State in the 90's, they're the only halfway decent team in a TERRIBLE conference. Every year they play two, maybe three significant games, and usually manage to lose one or two of those in spite of their retarded schedule.

At least FSU in the 90's beat the teams from their pathetic conference. USC can't even manage that. USC's superiority is a myth and a joke.

teganyavo · « **Reply #295 on:** September 26, 2008, 11:38:22 pm »

Quote from: jason23 on September 26, 2008, 10:40:26 pm

Big shock loss for USC. Will this affect them going for the National Championship game?

I seriously doubt that team will make the national title game. My bet is that the national title will be either

Penn State vs. SEC champion

or

Big XII champion vs. SEC champion

Brigor Cheyaore · « **Reply #296 on:** September 27, 2008, 05:48:53 am »

Quote from: teganyavo on September 26, 2008, 11:36:03 pm

No they aren't. USC aren't that good. They're like Florida State in the 90's, they're the only halfway decent team in a TERRIBLE conference. Every year they play two, maybe three significant games, and usually manage to lose one or two of those in spite of their retarded schedule.

At least FSU in the 90's beat the teams from their pathetic conference. USC can't even manage that. USC's superiority is a myth and a joke.

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/Orman1006/2008/07/25/PAC10_vs_SEC_since

bney7 · « **Reply #297 on:** September 27, 2008, 06:57:37 am »

Quote from: teganyavo on September 26, 2008, 11:38:22 pm

I seriously doubt that team will make the national title game. My bet is that the national title will be either

Penn State vs. SEC champion

or

Big XII champion vs. SEC champion

Penn State hahahahahahahahahahhahahaah get out of here.

jason42 · « **Reply #298 on:** October 11, 2008, 09:18:17 pm »

I thought the Sooners would beat the Longhorns.

Will other results from today see Texas, Missouri or LSU go No. 1?

Frog · « **Reply #299 on:** October 12, 2008, 06:54:51 am »

Well, it won't be Mizzou or LSU because both have been beaten today. LSU was crushed by Florida. 'Bama or Texas will be #1 with Penn State #3.

kizzak · « **Reply #300 on:** October 12, 2008, 10:28:50 am »

Quote from: JackBauer on September 16, 2008, 05:29:34 pm

Hang on, you're moving the goalposts now. To the charge that "the Big 10 has no speed" I countered that it sends plenty of players to the NFL, where teams generally don't draft plodding stiffs. That is the same whether we are talking about "skill positions" or not. You have now made the claim that more "skill position players known for their speed" come from other conferences and it's up to you to back that up, not me to disprove it.

The ACC has had the most players drafted in the first round over the last 3 years (SEC #2, Big 10 #3), the most players drafted overall in that period (SEC #2), and has become the first conference to have two players selected in the top 4 picks for three consecutive years.

That doesn't mean the conference has been competitive for a national championship in that period.

jason42 · « **Reply #301 on:** November 30, 2008, 01:44:10 pm »

The Big 12 south has seen a 3 way tie for the top spot. Texas, Texas Tech and Oklahoma all have 1 loss (to each other) and the tie will be broken by the BCS standings.
I think that Texas should be the winners. They beat the Sooners on a neutral field and only lost on the very last play to Texas Tech. Tech were steamrollered by Oklahoma and they only just beat Baylor yesterday so I think they should be 3rd.

Vinay · « **Reply #302 on:** December 1, 2008, 09:47:37 am »

How can Oklahoma be ahead of Texas? Can someone please explain that to me in simple terms?

jason42 · « **Reply #303 on:** December 1, 2008, 10:33:50 am »

Quote from: Vinay on December 1, 2008, 09:47:37 am

How can Oklahoma be ahead of Texas? Can someone please explain that to me in simple terms?

It seems to me that because they beat Texas Tech and lost early in the season and had a win over a ranked team this week that that counts for more than Texas beating them on a neutral field.
The BCS system is a minefield of opinion polls and computers and there is always controversy when the best teams do not make the National Championship game. As it stands now Texas could still go to the NC game if the Tide win against Florida and other things go their way.

I think they should have a playoff between the top 4 ranked BCS teams 1V4 and 2V3 with the winners meeting for the Title game.

Here are the current rankings...
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/rankingsindex
and an article that explains things a bit more...
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?page=roadtobcs/0807

jason42 · « **Reply #304 on:** January 6, 2009, 10:08:58 pm »

Well that's it for the Bowls now except for the Big One - The BCS National Championship Game on Thursday.

I enjoyed the Boise/TCU and ND/Hawaii bowls. Nice to finally see ND win a Bowl.

Good to see LSU actually play to potential in their stuffing of Georgia Tech.

USC flexed their muscles in battering Penn State - that was some 2nd quarter and Texas Tech flopped badly against Ole Miss.

Alabama were disappointing in the Sugar Bowl although credit to Utah for their phenomenal first quarter and it was just too much for Saban to claw back. Andre Smith was a big loss for the Tide...

What a Fiesta Bowl with the Buckeyes actually showing they can play in a BCS Bowl game and the Longhorns not firing on all cylinders. The result was in the bag at the end of the 3rd quarter until successive scoring drives so Ohio take the lead. Colt McCoy finished a fine drive to hit Quan Cosby with 16 seconds left to go 23-21 ahead before the PAT.
You have to question the defence there. It was an obvious passing situation but there was not enough cover deep and the rest is history. Still won't be enough for Texas to be ranked No.1 in the final polls.

Tebow V Bradford is a fascinating match up. If the Sooners win, it will add to Texas' claims that having already beaten them they should be National Champs.
Can't wait for that game....

bryanod · « **Reply #305 on:** January 6, 2009, 10:47:02 pm »

No way can Texas be #1 with only sneaking the win, maybe a blowout and a tight sooners win would've caused controversy, but not now.

And perhaps they can count themselves very fortunate wells missed most of the second half or they may not have been in the frame to win it.

Alabama were destroyed early and never recovered, poor saban

Utah will have a great chance to get to the BCS game next year with a repeat year.

jason42 · « **Reply #306 on:** January 7, 2009, 06:48:11 am »

Quote from: bryanod on January 6, 2009, 10:47:02 pm

No way can Texas be #1 with only sneaking the win, maybe a blowout and a tight sooners win would've caused controversy, but not now.

And perhaps they can count themselves very fortunate wells missed most of the second half or they may not have been in the frame to win it.

Alabama were destroyed early and never recovered, poor saban Utah will have a great chance to get to the BCS game next year with a repeat year.

Who do you like for Thursday's game?

bryanod · « **Reply #307 on:** January 7, 2009, 11:32:03 pm »

Quote from: jason23 on January 7, 2009, 06:48:11 am

Who do you like for Thursday's game?

Gators win, tebow does it. gets drafted int he 1st round

jason42 · « **Reply #308 on:** January 7, 2009, 11:39:39 pm »

Quote from: bryanod on January 7, 2009, 11:32:03 pm

Gators win, tebow does it. gets drafted int he 1st round

Has he confirmed if he is going for the draft? I'd have thought that with Stafford and Bradford going as well as guys like Pat White he might prefer to wait a year unless of course the scouts say otherwise. It would have a be a predicted first round though for him to go I think....

JackBauer · « **Reply #309 on:** January 8, 2009, 09:18:15 am »

Quote from: bryanod on January 7, 2009, 11:32:03 pm

Gators win, tebow does it. gets drafted int he 1st round

Yep, and it won't even be close. From the Big XII games I have seen this season, it appears that no one can play defense in that conference.

jason42 · « **Reply #310 on:** January 8, 2009, 09:54:28 am »

Quote from: JackBauer on January 8, 2009, 09:18:15 am

Yep, and it won't even be close. From the Big XII games I have seen this season, it appears that no one can play defense in that conference.

Were you pleased with the Buckeyes performance against Texas?

JackBauer · « **Reply #311 on:** January 8, 2009, 10:07:03 am »

I didn't see it because I was stranded in Paris (cancellations at CDG) on my way back from Ohio. I am told by my future father in law that they were at least competitive, a refreshing change from the last two years, and there's no shame in losing narrowly against a team who had a good claim of deserving a shot in the national championship game.

jason42 · « **Reply #312 on:** January 8, 2009, 12:11:16 pm »

Quote from: JackBauer on January 8, 2009, 10:07:03 am

I didn't see it because I was stranded in Paris (cancellations at CDG) on my way back from Ohio. I am told by my future father in law that they were at least competitive, a refreshing change from the last two years, and there's no shame in losing narrowly against a team who had a good claim of deserving a shot in the national championship game.

It was nice to see a competitive Bucks in a BCS Bowl game..

and they were still in it until the last seconds although Texas did not play particularly well and Ohio were very good.

bryanod · « **Reply #313 on:** January 9, 2009, 04:50:48 am »

Tebow downs his cape in the second half.

Gators win 24-14 cracking game of football!

JackBauer · « **Reply #314 on:** January 9, 2009, 10:34:03 am »

5 BCS Bowl defeats in a row now for the Sooners. No doubt this will all be forgotten at the start of next season and Stoops will be crowned some sort of super-coach, whereas the ESPN talking heads will continually remind us that Ohio State lost a BCS game for the third year in a row.

JoeTwerp · « **Reply #315 on:** January 9, 2009, 10:45:51 am »

coming from someone who hates Both Ohio State and Oklahoma, I would say that yes OSU has gotten more jokes in the last couple years, but I think that might switch now, at least for stoops. The big problem is, is that the Big 10 sucks, and that you had two BIG losses in a row in the national championship game and didn't really looked like you belonged. Ou's last two losses could have been put on lack of motivation due to playing a perceived weaker opponent. I think there will still be jokes about how bad the Big 10 is, but Stoops should be called out for being a terrible motivator as well as a terrible big game coach, and a choker.

jason42 · « **Reply #316 on:** January 9, 2009, 11:10:24 am »

What an enthralling game of football. Those 4 quarters flew by in a blur. Whilst the result never seemed in doubt, I think it was closer than most people thought it would be but in the end big Tim made the difference backed up by Harvin and Dunlap.

I really want to see a Florida V Texas game....

JoeTwerp · « **Reply #317 on:** January 9, 2009, 11:44:25 am »

I think Florida v. USC would be better

bryanod · « **Reply #318 on:** January 9, 2009, 01:22:51 pm »

Florida vs Utah!

jason42 · « **Reply #319 on:** January 9, 2009, 02:14:25 pm »

Nah...
Utah V USC
Florida V Texas
with the winners of both matches going head to head for the TRUE National Champions.