Author Topic: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.  (Read 284338 times)

Offline gamble

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #480 on: June 11, 2007, 04:42:22 pm »
Spoiler

something i got from somewhere else...

Just about the last scene....


All the people who were in the diner were past characters....if you look at the final credits...

--The guy who went to the bathroom was actually Phil's Nephew
--The black guys in the diner were the guys who shot Tony before
--The couple in the corner were involved with Christopher over some video stuff

Also, if you remember how Tony's Dad dies....with his dad getting gunned down in a restaurant with his family but Tony just arriving late (like Meadow) ...

Plus ...notice how they were eating the Onion Rings...none of them bit into them, just put them in thier mouth like 'communion'...however unlike communion the middle is empty .. very symbolic..

anyways...tony prob. does die there...

When he was in a coma, Light was the sign of LIFE...the end is nothing but darkness...
Bobby told tony on the boat that he thought death was just 'darkness'
blah blah blah ..

[close]

Spoiler
johnny boy died from empheseyma (sp) i think, he wasn't gunned down? no way...??  ???
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Offline johnybarnes

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #481 on: June 11, 2007, 04:43:42 pm »
dont shoot the messenger ;D

i just copy pasted

Offline courty61

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #482 on: June 11, 2007, 04:51:15 pm »
For people who didn't like the ending...

This was taken from a HBO forum

Spoiler

OK, at first I was really angry. I mean really, really angry. I can't believe though that no-one has posted by now what happened. The only thing I saw that was right, was that in the last scene we are seeing through Tony's eyes. Remember when he was speaking with Bobby...basically saying that you don't see it happening?

So here is what I found out. The guy at the bar is also credited as Nikki Leotardo. The same actor played him in the first part of season 6 during a brief sit down concerning the future of Vito. That wasn't that long ago. Apparently, he is the nephew of Phil. Phil's brother Nikki Senior was killed in 1976 in a car accident. Absolutely Genius!!!! David Chase is truly rewarding the true fans who pay attention to detail.

So the point would have been that life continues and we may never know the end of the Sopranos. But if you pay attention to the history, you will find that all the answers lie in the characters in the restaurant. The trucker was the brother of the guy who was robbed by Christopher in Season 2. Remember the DVD players? The trucker had to identify the body. The boy scouts were in the train store and the black guys at the end were the ones who tried to kill Tony and only clipped him in the ear (was that season 2 or 3?).

Absolutely incredible!!!! There were three people in the restaurant who had reason to kill Tony and then it just ends. This was Chase's way of proving that he will not escape his past. It will not go on forever despite that he would like it to "don't stop". Not the fans!!! Tony would like it to keep going but just as we have to say goodbye, so does he. No more Tony and I guess we are supposed to be happy that Meadow didn't get clipped as well (she would have been between the shooter and Tony) since she is the only one worth a crap in that family.

Thank you David Chase for making it so obscure that I feel bad for hating you at first. Absolutely amazing!!!!"

I just started watching this show, so I don't know how right he is, but for those of you who have........well?
[close]

Here's something which kinda disrupts this theory somewhat:

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/111-06092007-1360360.html

Spoiler
plus the two black guys are defo not the same ones in season 1, one of them gets killed there
[close]
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Offline realtarragona

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #483 on: June 11, 2007, 05:09:56 pm »
Spoiler
Some of these details are bollocks I think but either way, it's still a brilliant ending. So many different interpretations of what's just happened, people will be talking about it for years. After Tony's conversation to Bobby about never seeing or hearing the one that gets you, and that guy having just been to the bathroom behind Tony like in the Godfather, then blackness, can't help but wonder if that was it. Who knows.
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Offline courty61

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #484 on: June 11, 2007, 05:48:46 pm »
Spoiler
Maybe as Meadow was rushing she was telling her Dad to flee as she found out the FBI were coming to get him- but she gets there too late as the shady guy by the bar and some other people in there were with the feds and took Tony away.

Pure just guessing now though- think thats why Chase ended it this way.

Everyone is sayin he was Phil cousin this guy- which episode was he in?
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Offline hooded claw

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #485 on: June 11, 2007, 05:52:38 pm »
The strength of will I am showing in not clicking any of the spoilers above is impressive, if I say so myself.  :D

I'd lost track of the weeks and thought this was the penultimate... d/l it from Demonoid now, can't wait for this.


Offline realtarragona

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #486 on: June 11, 2007, 06:26:04 pm »
Spoiler
Maybe as Meadow was rushing she was telling her Dad to flee as she found out the FBI were coming to get him- but she gets there too late as the shady guy by the bar and some other people in there were with the feds and took Tony away.

Pure just guessing now though- think thats why Chase ended it this way.

Everyone is sayin he was Phil cousin this guy- which episode was he in?
[close]

Spoiler
She wouldn't have spent five minutes parking her car if that was the reason.

As for Phil's cousin, supposedly he was at some sit down re Vito in season 6. Can't remember myself though.
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Offline mikek1984

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #487 on: June 11, 2007, 06:36:22 pm »
when is this episode being aired in the us

or was it shown on the weekend?
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Offline courty61

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #488 on: June 11, 2007, 06:38:36 pm »
when is this episode being aired in the us

or was it shown on the weekend?

last night in the US
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Offline mikek1984

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #489 on: June 11, 2007, 06:40:37 pm »
so i can download now

yesssssssssssssssss
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Offline mikek1984

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #490 on: June 11, 2007, 06:46:12 pm »
which one the new ones have been shown?

episode 84: the second coming
episode 85: the blue comet
episode 86: made in america

or all 3?
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Offline courty61

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #491 on: June 11, 2007, 06:51:33 pm »
which one the new ones have been shown?

episode 84: the second coming
episode 85: the blue comet
episode 86: made in america

or all 3?

Made in america was on last night- which is the LAST ever one!

the other 2 where on during the past few weeks.
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Offline Fiend

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #492 on: June 11, 2007, 06:52:03 pm »
Spoiler
It was a bit of a 'what the fuck?' ending. I was very disappointed with it but have been mollified a bit reading some of these interpretations
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Offline mikek1984

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #493 on: June 11, 2007, 06:53:32 pm »
Made in america was on last night- which is the LAST ever one!

the other 2 where on during the past few weeks.

taa

im downloading all 3 now
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Offline courty61

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #494 on: June 11, 2007, 06:58:07 pm »
Spoiler
Summed up quite perfectly here- from http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/06/11/SOPRANO.TMP

No, your cable -- or satellite -- didn't go out. The ending of "The Sopranos" was both perfect and annoying as creator David Chase chose, once again, to upend the conventions of television by cutting (not fading) to black at an unpredictable, tension-filled moment.

Just like that, it was over.

No doubt millions of people around the country leapt to their feet, thinking that the worst possible technical glitch had occurred at the worst possible time. But this was no "gotcha" moment from Chase, who created and nurtured one of the greatest series in television history; it was a director's choice that was something close to perfect. He gave a gift to critics who wished that "The Sopranos" would just end, without melodrama or crisply tied-up storylines, but more like a camera shutting off. And it did.

That it was a pivotal scene, replete with a tense tease worthy of repeated viewings, will only ratchet up some people's annoyance. In an episode that opened like so many "Sopranos" episodes in this final season -- with Tony waking up in bed -- there was an ever-so-slight release of pressure at first. Tony Soprano, hiding out in a safe house after the New York family led by Phil Leotardo waged war on Tony's New Jersey family, woke up alive. A lot of "Sopranos" fans thought an all-out assault on the safe house would kick off the episode, perhaps led by a tip from a rat in Tony's crew.

Wrong.

But just because Tony woke up alive didn't mean he'd survive. And the final "Sopranos" episode never had much in the way of taut, agitating moments. A peace was brokered with New York, Phil was killed (an ordinary whacking followed by a brutal scene where his head is crushed under a car tire), and all that is eventually left is the almost predictable news that the feds had flipped a member of Tony's crew and were typing up subpoenas at a furious pace.

Chase had always let Tony talk freely of what happens to mobsters -- most end up in jail, the others dead. Period. But that didn't stop fans from thinking up elaborate, often far-fetched endings.

Though Tony was fearful of what the feds had and what a member of his crew -- Carlo -- could supply them, his attorney said flatly that trials are made to be won. So viewers were left with a major unanswered question -- does Tony go to jail or get off?

But that's nothing at all like the question all viewers had on their minds as they entered this last hour -- will Tony live or die? Jail? Who cares? This was a matter of life and death.

And that, precisely, is what Chase preyed on in the finale (which he wrote and directed). As Tony met his family -- each one driving separately -- at a diner, there was an ominous sense of doom. Tony, alone at a booth, flipped through the counter jukebox and selected, appropriately enough, Journey's "Don't Stop Believin'." (Music and the lyrics of the songs chosen by Chase have been an integral part of "The Sopranos," and this was no different.) But viewers, wary that something could still happen to Tony -- and no doubt moved to the edge of their seats by the dramatic score that preceded Journey -- had to bear witness to Tony looking up, vulnerable, every time the door to the diner slammed open.

It was maddening. First, Carmela (though there was a glimpse of a woman who looked like Tony's sister Janice, and a large number of fans thought she'd be the one to off Tony), then, later, son A.J. Except when A.J. arrived, he was slightly behind a man who looked for all the world like he was there to hit Tony. The man sat at the counter and periodically eyed Tony and his family. The tension rose -- highlighted by a beautifully choreographed scene where daughter Meadow arrives but has all kinds of trouble double-parking out front, which prolongs the scene. Is she going to walk in just as the guy at the counter kills her father or slaughters her family? Will Meadow be the one to survive?

Before she enters the diner -- still parking, in an excruciating but now somehow funny scene -- the man at the counter walks toward Tony and then ... passes. He heads to the bathroom. Next in the door -- another two characters who could be hired thugs. But no. Then, finally, the camera slowed as Meadow marches across the street to the diner, and we see Tony looking down, the sound of the door pushed open is heard, he raises his head (apparently seeing Meadow) then touches the top of the counter jukebox just as Journey singer Steve Perry says, "Don't stop ..." -- and the screen goes shockingly to black, with no sound whatsoever.

The end.

It was like Tony hit the snooze button on an alarm clock. And in some way, he did. Our glimpse into the lives of the Soprano family ended in that instant. But the implication is that life for Tony Soprano goes on, and we'll all just have to guess at the end. Conviction or innocence? Mistrial? He gets hit by a bus or has a heart attack? Who knows? We'll never know. And it's better that way. If you're thinking there's a movie in the works, think again. It was supposed to end like this. Sunday night was not a cliffhanger waiting for a movie.

The perfect element to the final scene -- other than scaring the bejesus out of most of the country and prompting calls to local cable companies -- is that we don't know what happens. There is no answer. But at the same time, Tony has his family around him -- and "The Sopranos" has always been a show about families.

Carmela is there, slightly agitated, slightly distant. You'd be hard pressed to say there was anything different about her in that moment than any we'd seen in the previous seasons. A.J. was there, having survived his SUV igniting a patch of leaves in the forest just as he was going to have sex (so perfectly random and perfectly A.J. as to need no more discussion). He had temporarily thought of joining the Army to fight the war on terror (a thematic backdrop to the recent "Sopranos" season) but was talked, or lured, out of it by his coddling parents, who set him up with a cush film job and the promise that they might front the money for him to open his own club. Again, perfectly A.J., perfectly Soprano family parenting.

Then Meadow arrived, the last of the brood, having finally and maddeningly double-parked the car. She appears headed to marriage with Patrick Parisi, son of one of Tony's crew, with a high-paying job in criminal law up ahead of her. It's not the doctor job Tony had envisioned for her, but he's indirectly responsible for that, as Meadow told him over dinner that she wanted to defend minorities mistreated by the justice system: "If I hadn't seen you dragged away all those times by the FBI, then I'd probably be a boring suburban doctor."

And so, we get more or less what was expected, besides the oddly edited ending. Tony's family is around him. Life, such as it is for a mobster facing possible criminal indictment, goes on.

Chase managed, with this ending, to be true to reality (Tony's lawyer said earlier in the episode, "It's not like we haven't envisioned this day") while also steering clear of trite TV conventions. Tony wasn't killed in a blaze of gunfire. Multiple plotlines were left unresolved (like life). There was no hugging, no moral lesson, no pat ending.

It just ended. Before a lot of people wanted it to, but with a clever Chase-like nod to the unknown.
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Offline gamble

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #495 on: June 11, 2007, 07:04:22 pm »
Spoiler


am I the only one who actually really really hates the ending?? I thought at least when it ended, I would be able to enjoy watching re-runs of the series, watching it from the beginning again. but it just feels like a lousy cop out. Sod this genius chase business, they left it open ended in case they need to pick up their careers again in three years time, for one last payday.

8 years of emotional investment for this?? I've been screwed.

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Offline courty61

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #496 on: June 11, 2007, 07:05:11 pm »
Spoiler


am I the only one who actually really really hates the ending?? I thought at least when it ended, I would be able to enjoy watching re-runs of the series, watching it from the beginning again. but it just feels like a lousy cop out. Sod this genius chase business, they left it open ended in case they need to pick up their careers again in three years time, for one last payday.

8 years of emotional investment for this?? I've been screwed.

[close]


Couldn't disagree more.
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Offline Cusamano

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #497 on: June 11, 2007, 07:06:05 pm »
Here's something which kinda disrupts this theory somewhat:

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/111-06092007-1360360.html

Spoiler
plus the two black guys are defo not the same ones in season 1, one of them gets killed there
[close]

Who the fuck knows what happened then. Think we might be looking too deep into this whole thing.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2007, 07:08:01 pm by Cusamano »
Wake up, will ya pal? If you're not inside, you're outside, OK? And I'm not talking a $400,000 a year working Wall Street stiff flying first class and being comfortable, I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars buddy. A player. - Gordon Gekko

Offline Cusamano

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #498 on: June 11, 2007, 07:07:40 pm »
Wake up, will ya pal? If you're not inside, you're outside, OK? And I'm not talking a $400,000 a year working Wall Street stiff flying first class and being comfortable, I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars buddy. A player. - Gordon Gekko

Offline gamble

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #499 on: June 11, 2007, 07:11:00 pm »

Spoiler
was that frank vincent himself (as opposed to a stuntman) when it rolled over? must be a foam tyres job! lol best scene yesterday.
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Offline courty61

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #500 on: June 11, 2007, 07:11:41 pm »
Spoiler
there could be clues maybe in the song? Chase has always said that music has a major play in the story.

Here are the lyrics for that "Don't Stop Believin'" song: (even the title suggests that maybe Tony doesn't wanna stop believing that he's goin to live til he's old and not be arrested etc and be able to have dinner with his family all the time)

Just a small town girl, livin in a lonely world
She took the midnight train goin anywhere
Just a city boy, born and raised in south detroit
He took the midnight train goin anywhere

A singer in a smokey room
A smell of wine and cheap perfume
For a smile they can share the night
It goes on and on and on and on

Strangers waiting, up and down the boulevard
Their shadows searching in the night
Streetlight people, living just to find emotion
Hiding, somewhere in the night

Working hard to get my fill,
Everybody wants a thrill
Payin anything to roll the dice,
Just one more time
Some will win, some will lose
Some were born to sing the blues
Oh, the movie never ends
It goes on and on and on and on

(chorus)

Dont stop believin
Hold on to the feelin
Streetlight people
[close]
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Offline Canada Loves Anfield

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #501 on: June 11, 2007, 07:12:05 pm »

Spoiler
Summed up quite perfectly here- from http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/06/11/SOPRANO.TMP

No, your cable -- or satellite -- didn't go out. The ending of "The Sopranos" was both perfect and annoying as creator David Chase chose, once again, to upend the conventions of television by cutting (not fading) to black at an unpredictable, tension-filled moment.

Just like that, it was over.

No doubt millions of people around the country leapt to their feet, thinking that the worst possible technical glitch had occurred at the worst possible time. But this was no "gotcha" moment from Chase, who created and nurtured one of the greatest series in television history; it was a director's choice that was something close to perfect. He gave a gift to critics who wished that "The Sopranos" would just end, without melodrama or crisply tied-up storylines, but more like a camera shutting off. And it did.

That it was a pivotal scene, replete with a tense tease worthy of repeated viewings, will only ratchet up some people's annoyance. In an episode that opened like so many "Sopranos" episodes in this final season -- with Tony waking up in bed -- there was an ever-so-slight release of pressure at first. Tony Soprano, hiding out in a safe house after the New York family led by Phil Leotardo waged war on Tony's New Jersey family, woke up alive. A lot of "Sopranos" fans thought an all-out assault on the safe house would kick off the episode, perhaps led by a tip from a rat in Tony's crew.

Wrong.

But just because Tony woke up alive didn't mean he'd survive. And the final "Sopranos" episode never had much in the way of taut, agitating moments. A peace was brokered with New York, Phil was killed (an ordinary whacking followed by a brutal scene where his head is crushed under a car tire), and all that is eventually left is the almost predictable news that the feds had flipped a member of Tony's crew and were typing up subpoenas at a furious pace.

Chase had always let Tony talk freely of what happens to mobsters -- most end up in jail, the others dead. Period. But that didn't stop fans from thinking up elaborate, often far-fetched endings.

Though Tony was fearful of what the feds had and what a member of his crew -- Carlo -- could supply them, his attorney said flatly that trials are made to be won. So viewers were left with a major unanswered question -- does Tony go to jail or get off?

But that's nothing at all like the question all viewers had on their minds as they entered this last hour -- will Tony live or die? Jail? Who cares? This was a matter of life and death.

And that, precisely, is what Chase preyed on in the finale (which he wrote and directed). As Tony met his family -- each one driving separately -- at a diner, there was an ominous sense of doom. Tony, alone at a booth, flipped through the counter jukebox and selected, appropriately enough, Journey's "Don't Stop Believin'." (Music and the lyrics of the songs chosen by Chase have been an integral part of "The Sopranos," and this was no different.) But viewers, wary that something could still happen to Tony -- and no doubt moved to the edge of their seats by the dramatic score that preceded Journey -- had to bear witness to Tony looking up, vulnerable, every time the door to the diner slammed open.

It was maddening. First, Carmela (though there was a glimpse of a woman who looked like Tony's sister Janice, and a large number of fans thought she'd be the one to off Tony), then, later, son A.J. Except when A.J. arrived, he was slightly behind a man who looked for all the world like he was there to hit Tony. The man sat at the counter and periodically eyed Tony and his family. The tension rose -- highlighted by a beautifully choreographed scene where daughter Meadow arrives but has all kinds of trouble double-parking out front, which prolongs the scene. Is she going to walk in just as the guy at the counter kills her father or slaughters her family? Will Meadow be the one to survive?

Before she enters the diner -- still parking, in an excruciating but now somehow funny scene -- the man at the counter walks toward Tony and then ... passes. He heads to the bathroom. Next in the door -- another two characters who could be hired thugs. But no. Then, finally, the camera slowed as Meadow marches across the street to the diner, and we see Tony looking down, the sound of the door pushed open is heard, he raises his head (apparently seeing Meadow) then touches the top of the counter jukebox just as Journey singer Steve Perry says, "Don't stop ..." -- and the screen goes shockingly to black, with no sound whatsoever.

The end.

It was like Tony hit the snooze button on an alarm clock. And in some way, he did. Our glimpse into the lives of the Soprano family ended in that instant. But the implication is that life for Tony Soprano goes on, and we'll all just have to guess at the end. Conviction or innocence? Mistrial? He gets hit by a bus or has a heart attack? Who knows? We'll never know. And it's better that way. If you're thinking there's a movie in the works, think again. It was supposed to end like this. Sunday night was not a cliffhanger waiting for a movie.

The perfect element to the final scene -- other than scaring the bejesus out of most of the country and prompting calls to local cable companies -- is that we don't know what happens. There is no answer. But at the same time, Tony has his family around him -- and "The Sopranos" has always been a show about families.

Carmela is there, slightly agitated, slightly distant. You'd be hard pressed to say there was anything different about her in that moment than any we'd seen in the previous seasons. A.J. was there, having survived his SUV igniting a patch of leaves in the forest just as he was going to have sex (so perfectly random and perfectly A.J. as to need no more discussion). He had temporarily thought of joining the Army to fight the war on terror (a thematic backdrop to the recent "Sopranos" season) but was talked, or lured, out of it by his coddling parents, who set him up with a cush film job and the promise that they might front the money for him to open his own club. Again, perfectly A.J., perfectly Soprano family parenting.

Then Meadow arrived, the last of the brood, having finally and maddeningly double-parked the car. She appears headed to marriage with Patrick Parisi, son of one of Tony's crew, with a high-paying job in criminal law up ahead of her. It's not the doctor job Tony had envisioned for her, but he's indirectly responsible for that, as Meadow told him over dinner that she wanted to defend minorities mistreated by the justice system: "If I hadn't seen you dragged away all those times by the FBI, then I'd probably be a boring suburban doctor."

And so, we get more or less what was expected, besides the oddly edited ending. Tony's family is around him. Life, such as it is for a mobster facing possible criminal indictment, goes on.

Chase managed, with this ending, to be true to reality (Tony's lawyer said earlier in the episode, "It's not like we haven't envisioned this day") while also steering clear of trite TV conventions. Tony wasn't killed in a blaze of gunfire. Multiple plotlines were left unresolved (like life). There was no hugging, no moral lesson, no pat ending.

It just ended. Before a lot of people wanted it to, but with a clever Chase-like nod to the unknown.
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Quite like that article. I was fucking pissed when it ended but now I am a little more accepting
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Offline courty61

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #502 on: June 11, 2007, 07:13:14 pm »
Spoiler
was that frank vincent himself (as opposed to a stuntman) when it rolled over? must be a foam tyres job! lol best scene yesterday.
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Spoiler
a stuntMAN?! Jesus! You mean a stuntDUMMY!

I thought Paulie going to hit the cat with the broom was the best scene yesterday- then sweeping when Tony comes in!
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Offline realtarragona

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #503 on: June 11, 2007, 07:27:09 pm »
Spoiler
Good article. So was that guy at the bar Phil's cousin then or not? I can't see the credits on my download.
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Offline Consigliere

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #504 on: June 11, 2007, 07:51:52 pm »
Re: the final episode

Spoiler
For fuck sakes, that ending was about as ridiculous as that episode of Dallas when Bobby wakes up and we learn that the whole of the last series had been a dream. Absolute fucking cop out. If you ask me, David Chase really didn't know how to end the Sopranos properly so he went for some bullshit David Lynch 'doesn't make any proper sense to anyone' ending. Good last episode but absolute cack ending
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Offline courty61

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #505 on: June 11, 2007, 07:55:08 pm »
Re: the final episode

Spoiler
For fuck sakes, that ending was about as ridiculous as that episode of Dallas when Bobby wakes up and we learn that the who of the last series had been a dream. Absolutely fucking cop out. If if you ask me, David Chase really didn't know how to end the Sopranos properly so he went for some bullshit David Lynch 'doesn't make any fucking sense' to anyone ending. Good last episode but absolute cack ending
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Spoiler
what would have you prefered then? Have you read any of the articles written on it? I was pissed at first, but the more you think about it the better it gets.

I think a big shoot out where we see everyone get killed or the FBI taking Tony away would have been the cop-out cliched ending
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Offline Consigliere

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #506 on: June 11, 2007, 08:07:04 pm »
Spoiler
what would have you prefered then? Have you read any of the articles written on it? I was pissed at first, but the more you think about it the better it gets.

I think a big shoot out where we see everyone get killed or the FBI taking Tony away would have been the cop-out cliched ending
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Spoiler
The explanation that was given in your link explained it the best, but I still think Chase's ending is just bloody contrived and a big departure from the style of rest of the series. Fair enough, he has to end it, he wants to give something to the fans of the series, and he's getting sentimental after so long working on the series, but fucking hell, I was waiting for Chris, Pussy, Ralph, Patrick Swayze from Ghost and the dwarf from Twin Peaks to also turn up at that pizza parlour.
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Offline TheRedBaron

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #507 on: June 11, 2007, 08:08:08 pm »
Spoiler
Ive calmed down now and after reading a few articles and watching the episode again i think its a good ending, id hate a big gun scene or tony going to jail, as some people have said that would be a real cliche. 

Anyway i have a question, did anyone get what the cat symbolised and why Paulie was so afraid of it?
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'Jimmy, I get home, I shut the curtains and I sleep'.

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Offline Consigliere

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #508 on: June 11, 2007, 08:20:09 pm »
Spoiler
Anyway i have a question, did anyone get what the cat symbolised and why Paulie was so afraid of it?
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Spoiler
David Lynch.
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Offline nyctex

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #509 on: June 11, 2007, 08:55:25 pm »
Spoiler
Ive calmed down now and after reading a few articles and watching the episode again i think its a good ending, id hate a big gun scene or tony going to jail, as some people have said that would be a real cliche. 

Anyway i have a question, did anyone get what the cat symbolised and why Paulie was so afraid of it?
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Spoiler

I read someone hypothesize it is Adrianna.  I kind of like that thought

As a committed cat-hater, I know why Paulie despised the vile creature - I don't think he was afraid of it
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Offline TheRedBaron

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #510 on: June 11, 2007, 09:00:58 pm »
Spoiler
he kept saying it made him nervous when all it did was just sit there and then there was that scene when Tony puts Paulie incharge of Carlo's crew and walks off, as Paulie is sitting outside the pork store on his own the cat calmly walks into shot.  I just got a feeling there was some sort of connection between the cat and paulie.
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'Jimmy, I get home, I shut the curtains and I sleep'.

- Mascherano after running out of petrol, forgetting his money then being hit in his car on his way home

Offline ConnieLFC

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #511 on: June 11, 2007, 09:07:37 pm »
Spoiler
David Lynch.   
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Spoiler
  ???  Am curious as I don't get the reference....   

Also, agree with your post above - I mean, I think everyone "got" why he (Chase) wanted to make the ending ambiguous but I still think *that's* the cop-out.  Just because people are talking about it today doesn't automatically mean it's genius...  I still think there're could've been a more satisfying way to do it without making it obvious or pat.  It now just feels like everyone's clutching at straws a bit.
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Offline Consigliere

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #512 on: June 11, 2007, 09:22:17 pm »
Spoiler
  ???  Am curious as I don't get the reference....   
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Spoiler
In those David Lynch films - Blue Velvet, Twin Peaks, Mulholland Drive etc - there are always weird references to obscure things which people debate again and again, and try and offer explanations for but I don't think even David Lynch knows what they're about. I think he just throws them in to get people confused / debating / maintain interest etc.
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Offline ConnieLFC

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #513 on: June 11, 2007, 09:23:01 pm »
Spoiler
he kept saying it made him nervous when all it did was just sit there and then there was that scene when Tony puts Paulie incharge of Carlo's crew and walks off, as Paulie is sitting outside the pork store on his own the cat calmly walks into shot.  I just got a feeling there was some sort of connection between the cat and paulie.
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Spoiler
Well, I'm taking the cat (and its affinity with the picture of Christopher) as a reminder to Paulie of his own mortality.  How many times did he bring up his cancer scare last night?  He also mentioned earlier he didn't live this long by willingly putting himself in the middle of turf battles (or something to that effect).

Christopher's sudden death (and didn't we see Paulie have suspicions re: Tony's involvement?) and the fact that Tony still never got payback for Paulie's flirtation with NY (and Paulie thinking this new "job opportunity" might be how Tony gets it?) is just a reminder that Paulie doesn't in fact have "nine lives" despite his having already escaped death on several occasions.   

My $.02 worth anyway...!

And Consigliere:  a big high-five on your mention of the Bobby nonsense from "Dallas".  That was first thing I thought of too and was going to mention it my initial post.  B*ll*cks - I'll certainly gain more appreciation of last night's episode as I re-watch it (and as I already said, there were some fantastic scenes in the episode) but I'll never be convinced that the last scene made for the "perfect" series ending everyone's now saying it was.
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« Last Edit: June 11, 2007, 09:54:42 pm by ConnieLFC »

Offline TheRedBaron

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #514 on: June 11, 2007, 09:44:48 pm »
Spoiler
what about the bit where the walks into the restaurant at the end and he looks about and suddenly is he looking at another Tony Soprano sitting down or is that just a really wierd edit and hes sat down already? At first glance i thought his tops change but maybe im wrong
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'Jimmy, I get home, I shut the curtains and I sleep'.

- Mascherano after running out of petrol, forgetting his money then being hit in his car on his way home

Offline gamble

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #515 on: June 11, 2007, 10:36:30 pm »
Spoiler
what about the bit where the walks into the restaurant at the end and he looks about and suddenly is he looking at another Tony Soprano sitting down or is that just a really wierd edit and hes sat down already? At first glance i thought his tops change but maybe im wrong
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Spoiler


in my mind i'm hoping it was like a dream sequence, like tony often has, because the ending sucked hard for me.

it was a complete cop out. I say this because if you take the last scene literally, all signs pointed towards tony getting whacked.. his past catching up with him. if this was what chase meant, why didn't he show tony getting killed?? why?? because he wanted to keep it open ended just in case he needs to revive it.

all this make your own ending rubbish doesn't work either, everyone is thinking tony gets killed. no-one is saying how they all live ever after.

if he wanted tony dead, he should have showed it. he's got no balls.
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Offline mikek1984

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #516 on: June 12, 2007, 01:49:08 am »
im gonna start watching the final 3 now


i reckon something happems to AJ
 i reckon he kills himself or something mad like that
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Offline NYkopite

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #517 on: June 12, 2007, 02:09:32 am »
Here's my 2 cents....


Spoiler
I was really stunned by the ending.

My take on it was that Tony was indeed whacked by one of the suspicious characters in the diner.

Everything seemed to be building up to it in that scene. I thought when Tony looked up from the menu he saw his killer (not his daughter, she would have been behind the killer). His expression and the fact that he seemed to be reaching for something under the table (his gun I assume) made me think that.

Then nothing, just darkness and quiet. We've been inside Tony's head many times in the series (his dreams, his coma etc,). This was the final time, at the moment of his death, killed by a bullet in the head.

As was previously mentioned, he and Bobby had a conversation on the boat which described what it must be like to be whacked, and that description pretty much seemed to fit with the ending.

There was so much speculation regarding Tony's outcome that I was really impressed with the originality of it, rather than it being just another mob hit.  We've seen so many killings throughout the series, that to experience Tony's from a completely different perspective was very impressive.

Then again, I could be completely wrong!!!
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Offline mikek1984

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #518 on: June 12, 2007, 02:15:06 am »
fuck me this is some gripping stuff
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Offline courty61

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Re: 'Sopranos' fans- S6 and general gubbins in here. No Spoilers.
« Reply #519 on: June 12, 2007, 12:05:38 pm »
Chase's 1st Interview since episode aired:

Spoiler
What do you do when your TV world ends? You go to dinner, then keep quiet.

"Sopranos" creator David Chase took his wife out for dinner in France Sunday night, where he's fled to avoid "all the Monday morning quarterbacking" about the HBO show's finale. After this exclusive interview with The Star-Ledger of Newark, agreed to before the season began, he intends to let the work -- especially the controversial final scene -- speak for itself.

"I have no interest in explaining, defending, reinterpreting, or adding to what is there," he says of the final scene.

"No one was trying to be audacious, honest to God," he adds. "We did what we thought we had to do. No one was trying to blow people's minds, or thinking, 'Wow, this'll (tick) them off.' People get the impression that you're trying to (mess) with them and it's not true. You're trying to entertain them."


AP photo
David Chase
In Sunday's final scene, mob boss Tony Soprano waited at Holsten's ice cream parlor in Bloomfield, N.J. for his family to arrive, one by one. What was a seemingly benign family outing was shot and cut as the preamble to a tragedy, with Tony suspiciously eyeing one patron after another, the camera dwelling a little too long on Meadow's parallel parking and a man in a Members Only jacket's walk to the men's room. Just as the tension had been ratched up to unbearable levels, the series cut to black in mid-scene (and mid-song) with no resolution.

"Anybody who wants to watch it, it's all there," says Chase, 61, who based the series in general (and Tony's relationship with mother Livia specifically) on his North Caldwell, N.J., childhood.

Some fans have assumed the ambiguous ending was Chase setting up the oft-rumored "Sopranos" movie.

"I don't think about (a movie) much," he says. "I never say never. An idea could pop into my head where I would go, 'Wow, that would make a great movie,' but I doubt it.

"I'm not being coy," he adds. "If something appeared that really made a good 'Sopranos' movie and you could invest in it and everybody else wanted to do it, I would do it. But I think we've kind of said it and done it."

Another problem: over the last season, Chase killed so many key characters. He's toyed with the idea of "going back to a day in 2006 that you didn't see, but then (Tony's children) would be older than they were then and you would know that Tony doesn't get killed. It's got problems."

TWO THEORIES

(Earlier in the interview, he notes his favorite part of the show was often the characters telling stories about the good ol' days of Tony's parents. Just a guess, but if Chase ever does a movie spin-off, it'll be set in Newark in the '60s.)

Since Chase is declining to offer his interpretation of the final scene, let me present two more of my own, which came to me with a good night's sleep and a lot of helpful reader e-mails:

-- Theory No. 1 (and the one I prefer): Chase is using the final scene to place the viewer into Tony's mindset. This is how he sees the world: every open door, every person walking past him could be coming to kill him, or arrest him or otherwise harm him or his family. This is his life, even though the paranoia's rarely justified. We end without knowing what Tony's looking at because he never knows what's coming next.

-- Theory No. 2: In the scene on the boat in "Soprano Home Movies," repeated again last week, Bobby Bacala suggests that when you get killed, you don't see it coming. Certainly, our man in the Members Only jacket could have gone to the men's room to prepare for killing Tony (shades of the first "Godfather"), and the picture and sound cut out because Tony's life just did. (Or because we, as viewers, got whacked from our life with the show.)

Remember that 21-month hiatus between Seasons Five and Six? That was Chase thinking up the ending. HBO's then-chairman Chris Albrecht came to him after Season Five and suggested thinking up a conclusion to the series; Chase agreed, on the condition he get "a long break" to decide on an ending.

Originally, that ending was supposed to occur last year, but midway through production, the number of episodes was increased, and Chase stretched out certain plot elements while saving the major climaxes for this final batch of nine.

"If this had been one season, the Vito storyline would not have been so important," he says.

KILLING FIELDS

Much of this final season has featured Tony bullying, killing or otherwise alienating the members of his inner circle. After all those years viewing him as "the sympathetic mob boss," were we supposed to, like his therapist Dr. Melfi, finally wake up and smell the sociopath?

"From my perspective, there's nothing different about Tony in this season than there ever was," Chase says. "To me, that's Tony."

Chase has had an ambivalent relationship with his fans, particularly the bloodthirsty whacking crowd who seemed to tune in only for the chance to see someone's head get blown off (or run over by an SUV). So was he reluctant to fill last week's penultimate episode, "The Blue Comet," with so many vivid death scenes?

"I'm the Number One fan of gangster movies," he says. "Martin Scorsese has no greater devotee than me. Like everyone else, I get off partly on the betrayals, the retributions, the swift justice. But what you come to realize when you do a series is you could be killing straw men all day long. Those murders only have any meaning when you've invested story in them. Otherwise, you might as well watch 'Cleaver.'"

FINAL THOUGHTS

One detail about the final scene he'll discuss, however tentatively: the selection of Journey's "Don't Stop Believin'" as the song on the jukebox.

"It didn't take much time at all to pick it, but there was a lot of conversation after the fact. I did something I'd never done before: in the location van, with the crew, I was saying, 'What do you think?' When I said, 'Don't Stop Believin' people went, 'What? Oh my god!' I said, 'I know, I know, just give a listen,' and little by little, people started coming around."

Whether viewers will have a similar time-delayed reaction to the finale as a whole, Chase doesn't know. ("I hear some people were very angry, and others were not, which is what I expected.") He's relaxing in France, then he'll try to make movies.

"It's been the greatest career experience of my life," he says. "There's nothing more in TV that I could say or would want to say."

Here's Chase on some other points about the finale and the season:

-- After all the speculation Agent Harris might turn Tony, instead we saw Harris had turned, passing along info on Phil's whereabouts and cheering, "We're going to win this thing!" when learning of Phil's demise.

"This is based on an actual case of an FBI agent who got a little bit too partisan and excited during the Colombo wars of the '70s," Chase says of the story of Lindley DeVecchio, who supplied Harris' line.

-- Speaking of Harris, Chase had no problem with never revealing what -- if anything -- terror suspects Muhammed and Ahmed were up to.

"This, to me, feels very real," he says. "For the majority of these suspects, it's very hard for anybody to know what these people are doing. I don't even think Harris might know where they are. That was sort of the point of it: who knows if they are terrorists or if they're innocent pistachio salesmen? That's the fear that we are living with now."

Also, the apocryphal story -- repeated by me, unfortunately -- that Fox, when "The Sopranos" was in development there, wanted Chase to have Tony help the FBI catch terrorists, wasn't true.

"What I said was, if I had done it at Fox, Tony would have been a gangster by day and helping the FBI by night, but we weren't there long enough for anyone to make that suggestion."

-- I spent the last couple of weeks wrapping my brain around a theory supplied by reader Sam Lorber (and his daughter, Emily) that the nine episodes of this season were each supposed to represent one of the nine circles of Hell from Dante's "The Divine Comedy." Told of the theory, Chase laughed and said, "No."

-- Since Butchie was introduced as a guy who was pushing Phil to take out Tony, why did he turn on Phil and negotiate peace with Tony?

"I think Butch was an intelligent guy, he began to see that there was no need for it, that Phil's feelings were all caught up in what was esentially a convoluted personal grudge."

-- Not from Chase, but I feel the need to debunk the e-mail that's making the rounds about all the Holsten's patrons being characters from earlier in the series. The actor playing Member's Only guy had never been on the show, Tony killed at least one, if not both, of his carjackers, and there are about 17 other things wrong with this popular but incorrect theory.

--- Contributed by Alan Sepinwall, TV critic for The Star-Ledger of Newark
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