Topic: PL: Liverpool 1 vs 1 Arsenal Gabriel 4’ Mo 29’

[MD1990]

We dont look like champions, no, but neither do Arsenal or City.
Its not a vintage PL season in terms of quality, but it could be an epic title race

Arsenal away form not great but they done decent against us yesterday. Far better than last April. Saliba is massive for them & Rice.

They do look bettter equiped. We looked to have a better attack at one stage but thats gone now with the for of our forward line.

[Wghennessy]

Arsenal away form not great but they done decent against us yesterday. Far better than last April. Saliba is massive for them & Rice.

They do look bettter equiped. We looked to have a better attack at one stage but thats gone now with the for of our forward line.

They relied on the officials to once again bail them out. We should have won and it should have been comfortable.

[Eeyore]

Over the long term yes but I’d much rather have Endo as a 6 than Curt, who is much better when he’s free to roam about the pitch.

The issue for me is that both Endo and MacAllister lack athleticism. You can just about get away with starting one of them if you get legs around them. Endo/Mac with Jones and Szobozslai is a decent blend of technical ability and athleticism.

Starting both Endo and Mac in the same midfield especially both nominally on the left of midfield in possession would be far too slow and immobile especially on transitions. It would also mean Szobozslai having to work even harder.

Personally I think we function much better with Jones in the team. He is very good in possession and covers huge amounts of ground.

[newterp]

Arsenal away form not great but they done decent against us yesterday. Far better than last April. Saliba is massive for them & Rice.

They do look bettter equiped. We looked to have a better attack at one stage but thats gone now with the for of our forward line.

They didn't do much of anything against us on Saturday. It was pretty even - and I can't recall any big Arsenal chances where Alisson had to bail us out.

Last April - we struggled until Xakha got the crowd riled up with a fight with Trent.

[ScouserAtHeart]

we've gotten 4 points from 15 against others in the "Big 6". We need to improve on that 2nd half, given that 3 of the 5 games will be at home and Man Utd away isn't exactly difficult anymore

[The G in Gerrard]

The player who hasn't been picked is Endo.

When Jones has been fit he has been a regular first-team starter. Endo hasn't.

Thought Endo has made more appearances than Jones so far this season (starting or sub)?

How many games has Endo been on the bench and Jones has started?

[Mighty_Red]

Arsenal away form not great but they done decent against us yesterday. Far better than last April. Saliba is massive for them & Rice.

They do look bettter equiped. We looked to have a better attack at one stage but thats gone now with the for of our forward line.

Agreed that they look better than last season overall (Rice is an obbious upgrade) but I'm not sure a 1-1 was necessarily better than the 2-2 they got in April. Less boom and bust perhaps, but the game still had them having the lead, bring pegged back then being suffocated for a period when we should've scored and won the game.

For me the McNulty BBC article was written with Arsenal winning in mind. If they were already 3-4 points ahead then you could say they had passed a test. As it is, it's still wide open, 1st place will change hands on a weekly basis until someone goes on a long winning run. No reason why it can't be us if we can resolve the injury issues but City are still the favourites to do this.

Also remember that teams can mature and get better over the season, just think 2017/18 (albeit VVD played a big part). Certainly think that side would've had a chance of a league title had we only been a point off the top at Xmas.

[Eeyore]

How many games has Endo been on the bench and Jones has started?

They play different positions. For League games Endo is backup to MacAllister. Endo only really becomes a viable starting option if we have injuries or suspensions.

If everyone is fit and we have a League game then Jones is a viable starting option. In September he started all 5 domestic games.

Endo is a backup who plays the early rounds of the Europa and the domestic cups.

[Fromola]

Agreed that they look better than last season overall (Rice is an obbious upgrade) but I'm not sure a 1-1 was necessarily better than the 2-2 they got in April. Less boom and bust perhaps, but the game still had them having the lead, bring pegged back then being suffocated for a period when we should've scored and won the game.

For me the McNulty BBC article was written with Arsenal winning in mind. If they were already 3-4 points ahead then you could say they had passed a test. As it is, it's still wide open, 1st place will change hands on a weekly basis until someone goes on a long winning run. No reason why it can't be us if we can resolve the injury issues but City are still the favourites to do this.

Also remember that teams can mature and get better over the season, just think 2017/18 (albeit VVD played a big part). Certainly think that side would've had a chance of a league title had we only been a point off the top at Xmas.

They went into the game in an advantage with no midweek game plus Liverpool off form and with a lot of injuries. Then they get an early goal. They didn't press home the advantage as they didn't when we were really a mess and 2-0 down last season.

What they did was look noticeably more comfortable on the ball, but then our ball playing midfielders are injured

[Kashinoda]

we've gotten 4 points from 15 against others in the "Big 6". We need to improve on that 2nd half, given that 3 of the 5 games will be at home and Man Utd away isn't exactly difficult anymore

That 'Big 6' doesn't include Aston Villa (3 pts, Home) and Newcastle (3 pts, away, with 10 men). And also includes the farcical Spurs game.

The biggest thing that has come from these Arsenal and United draws is how everyone now has a stupid hot-take as to why we aren't challenging this year.

Pretty much every god damn reason you can use for Liverpool not challenging can be levied at anyone else who's still in the mix.

[Red Beret]

As far as I'm concerned, the draws against the big teams, show how they're desperate not to lose against us. They know how dangerous we are. Klopp's 2.0 isn't quite there yet, so unlocking some teams is proving difficult, but it's more a mark of how scared they are.

[The G in Gerrard]

They play different positions. For League games Endo is backup to MacAllister. Endo only really becomes a viable starting option if we have injuries or suspensions.

If everyone is fit and we have a League game then Jones is a viable starting option. In September he started all 5 domestic games.

Endo is a backup who plays the early rounds of the Europa and the domestic cups.

That's not what you originally said and secondly you are changing the goalposts. Not surprised. Carry on

[Pistolero]

Christmas day ..and still this 😂

[the_red_pill]

Never mind Trent’s chance going begging, if the sodding refs had done the job they are paid to do and given this:



The game could have taken a whole different trajectory.

Robbed!

AGAIN!

we've gotten 4 points from 15 against others in the "Big 6". We need to improve on that 2nd half, given that 3 of the 5 games will be at home and Man Utd away isn't exactly difficult anymore

That, is an alarming stat.

[Caps4444]

That 'Big 6' doesn't include Aston Villa (3 pts, Home) and Newcastle (3 pts, away, with 10 men). And also includes the farcical Spurs game.

The biggest thing that has come from these Arsenal and United draws is how everyone now has a stupid hot-take as to why we aren't challenging this year.

Pretty much every god damn reason you can use for Liverpool not challenging can be levied at anyone else who's still in the mix.

The traditional big six I assume was meant.

Nevertheless…stats don’t lie….these are the games where we can damage a rival.

I agree, we were robbed v Chelsea, Spurs.

[Red Giant]

We were obviously the better team and should have won.
Arsenal had only one good chance after they scored and I am convinced Saka was offside.
We still have some very good players to come back which will help for the second part of the season - Jota, Robbo, McAllister, Thiago, Bajcetic.
Anyone writing us off for the title need a reality check because we are not going away and every team is dropping points and I believe that will continue throughout the season.
With that said, Nunez and Diaz should wake up as we cant rely only on Salah to score the important goals.
Up the Reds!

[diegoLFC7]

Robbed!

AGAIN!That, is an alarming stat.

Got to be objective, looks similar to Trents against City back in our title winning season.

[stoa]

AGAIN!That, is an alarming stat.

Is it really though? 4 out of 15 points sounds bad, but at the end of the day, that's 4 draws and one loss (that shouldn't have been). It also means that in those games, all the other teams except Spurs only got 1 point. And still we're very much in the title picture. None of this means anything about our chances of actually winning the title. Not when the other contendors are having a difficult time as well. I think we can all see with our eyes, that this team is far from the finished article, but this panicking about stuff that's actually not really that bad, if you look at the bigger picture, is exactly what Klopp was talking about in his comment about the 0-0 against Man Utd. It was a bad result, but we're still in a great position overall and that's what we should be focussing on.

[Kashinoda]

The traditional big six I assume was meant.

Nevertheless…stats don’t lie….these are the games where we can damage a rival.

I agree, we were robbed v Chelsea, Spurs.

The only games in which we could damage a rival are City and Arsenal, both draws.

The historical 'top 6' is a bit of a weird metric to compare performance on. That's why we have the APTL thread.

[the_red_pill]

The traditional big six I assume was meant.

Nevertheless…stats don’t lie….these are the games where we can damage a rival.

I agree, we were robbed v Chelsea, Spurs.

And Arsenal... its almost a pattern.

[xbugawugax]

we've gotten 4 points from 15 against others in the "Big 6". We need to improve on that 2nd half, given that 3 of the 5 games will be at home and Man Utd away isn't exactly difficult anymore

partly due to VAR. i know its an excuse but the decisions the men in the middle make were unexcusable. The handball vs arsenal. The diaz phantom goal. we were lucky that we beat newcastle with 10 men. Reminder that we basically were playing with 10 men in almost every game during the start of the season when we got players sent off for even the smallest of fouls. how is that possible when we had the best disciplinary record for almost every year under klopp. fucking c*nts in black deserve a one way trip to gaza.

[zero zero]

That 'Big 6' doesn't include Aston Villa (3 pts, Home) and Newcastle (3 pts, away, with 10 men). And also includes the farcical Spurs game.

The biggest thing that has come from these Arsenal and United draws is how everyone now has a stupid hot-take as to why we aren't challenging this year.

Pretty much every god damn reason you can use for Liverpool not challenging can be levied at anyone else who's still in the mix.

Thank you for this.

People take a metric like "the traditional top six" and run with it. We drop points against teams that park the bus. But we must be pick up points somewhere as we're second.

On Saturday we saw our respective attacks against the two best defences in the league. Apparently our attack is mis-firing and we should look to strengthen. Yet I saw Mo waltz passed their left back (imagine that happened to Trent. We'd never hear the end of it) and then bang it in passed their mediocre keeper. They scored off a set piece and created next to nothing.

Your last line is spot on. No team is perfect. We're doing okay and will get better as our players return from injury.

[lobsterboy]

we've gotten 4 points from 15 against others in the "Big 6". We need to improve on that 2nd half, given that 3 of the 5 games will be at home and Man Utd away isn't exactly difficult anymore

Man Utd will be on EPO, inhalers and blood from spanish/italian doctors by then

[the_red_pill]

Thank you for this.

People take a metric like "the traditional top six" and run with it. We drop points against teams that park the bus. But we must be pick up points somewhere as we're second.

On Saturday we saw our respective attacks against the two best defences in the league. Apparently our attack is mis-firing and we should look to strengthen. Yet I saw Mo waltz passed their left back (imagine that happened to Trent. We'd never hear the end of it) and then bang it in passed their mediocre keeper. They scored off a set piece and created next to nothing.

Your last line is spot on. No team is perfect. We're doing okay and will get better as our players return from injury.

We dropped points against Arsenal, United, Chelsea, City, lost at Spurs...
The big six are capable of lifting their games against us and they have good players.I don't care about Villa cause they're still building.

Our problem isn't that they supposedly defended well. No, they were all shit defensively. Our problem is that our attack is blunt against anything decent. Jota can't come back soon enough.
One part of that venerable attack that would've walked the league this season. Arsenal are shit. An attack with one or two of Mane,  prime Mo,  Firmino, Jota in there would've ripped this Arsenal team a new arsehole. I hope we get back to those standards.

WE dropped points. It's not City or United or Arsenal's so-called "brilliant" defense. I watched us have no clue about what to do in front of goal, and move the ball around like a bunch of snails in midfield... Avoiding the box like the plague.

Fair enough, we're rebuilding, but our attack is ineffective against the top teams. We need a rebuild there. We're lying on Mo to do everything, but he can't. Virgil keeps lumping the ball to him.. the midfield keeps passing to him and ignoring everyone else up front. We're not running and/or passing into the box enough. Devoid of any guile, something we had in abundance.
Instead- to everyone's frustration, we keep playing and passing the ball around in front of their back 4s and 5s. Rinse... Repeat.
Elliot comes on late all the time... It's a mess.

I've decided fuckit! I usually don't moan, but this season I want to. I want to have my day in court and my place in the sun. I  also want to let my frustrations fly. Tis the season to be salty!
Tired of being  one of the voices of reason and calm. Fuck dat!
For now.

[Zimagic]

We dropped points against Arsenal, United, Chelsea, City, lost at Spurs...
The big six are capable of lifting their games against us and they have good players.I don't care about Villa cause they're still building.

Our problem isn't that they supposedly defended well. No, they were all shit defensively. Our problem is that our attack is blunt. Jota can't come back soon enough.

I agree with you that we should be scoring more but you could also argue:
Arsenal: Baffling non-penalty decision, Saka should have been sent off.
United: Baffling non-penalty decision (Shaw hand-ball)
Chelsea: A draw was fair.
City: A draw was fair
Spurs: Lost in the last second to an own goal after 1 clear goal chalked off and 2 players unfairly sent off.

Seems to me that the real reason we're not a 5-7 points out front of everyone else is a dearth of competent and unbiased refereeing, not our goal conversion rate.

[the_red_pill]

I agree with you that we should be scoring more but you could also argue:
Arsenal: Baffling non-penalty decision, Saka should have been sent off.
United: Baffling non-penalty decision (Shaw hand-ball)
Chelsea: A draw was fair.
City: A draw was fair
Spurs: Lost in the last second to an own goal after 1 clear goal chalked off and 2 players unfairly sent off.

Seems to me that the real reason we're not a 5-7 points out front of everyone else is a dearth of competent and unbiased refereeing, not our goal conversion rate.

Spurs are off the table. That was a brilliant performance, but  we should've created more instead of relying on the c in black.

Our defense are writing checks our attack can't cash, and everyone's defenses are piss poor this season,  and it just so happens we're unable to cash in.

[zero zero]

We dropped points against Arsenal, United, Chelsea, City, lost at Spurs...
The big six are capable of lifting their games against us and they have good players.I don't care about Villa cause they're still building.

And other teams aren't? The "big six" is totalyy arbitary when ManU are 8th and Chelsea 10th.

Our problem isn't that they supposedly defended well. No, they were all shit defensively. Our problem is that our attack is blunt. Jota can't come back soon enough.
One part of that venerable attack that would've walked the league this season. Arsenal are shit. An attack with one or two of Mane,  prime Mo,  Firmino, Jota in there would've ripped this Arsenal team a new arsehole. I hope we get back to those standards.

Arsenal are not shit. And they are not shit defensively. They cough up far less chances than ours. But our keeper is immense and theirs it mediocre. It's why we have the joint best defences in the league.

WE dropped points. It's not City or United or Arsenal's so-called "brilliant" defense. I watched us have no clue about what to do in front of goal, and move the ball around like a bunch of snails in midfield... Avoiding the box like the plague.

Against Arsenal? Try watching the game again sober.

Fair enough, we're rebuilding, but our attack is ineffective against the top teams. We need a rebuild there.
It's a mess.

It's just not. We're rebuilding whilst losing key components to our team; Jota, Robertson and Mac Allister. We haven't even seen Thiago.

I've decided fuckit! I usually don't moan, but this season I want to. I want to have my day in court and my place in the sun. I  also want to let my frustrations fly. Tis the season to be salty!
Tired of being  one of the voices of reason and calm. Fuck dat!

You're not  Merry Christmas 

[Eeyore]

That's not what you originally said and secondly you are changing the goalposts. Not surprised. Carry on

Bollocks here are the two posts.

They play different positions. For League games Endo is backup to MacAllister. Endo only really becomes a viable starting option if we have injuries or suspensions.

If everyone is fit and we have a League game then Jones is a viable starting option. In September he started all 5 domestic games.

Endo is a backup who plays the early rounds of the Europa and the domestic cups.

The player who hasn't been picked is Endo.

When Jones has been fit he has been a regular first-team starter. Endo hasn't.

We play the first team in the League games and rotate heavily for the cup games.

When everyone is fit and available for the League games then Jones regularly gets picked to start games. As I said he is a viable option to start the important games.

Endo isn't. If MacAllister is fit and not suspended then he starts the League games.

[the_red_pill]

And other teams aren't? The "big six" is totalyy arbitary when ManU are 8th and Chelsea 10th.Arsenal are not shit. And they are not shit defensively. They cough up far less chances than ours. But our keeper is immense and theirs it mediocre. It's why we have the joint best defences in the league.Against Arsenal? Try watching the game again sober.
It's just not. We're rebuilding whilst losing key components to our team; Jota, Robertson and Mac Allister. We haven't even seen Thiago.You're not  Merry Christmas 

Listen here .. I'm telling you that Arsenal are kak. Go tell em I said so! They're a kak team, man.
They should've ran away with this league by now.

They are dog's piss. City are in their worst campaign in a while and these can't even get it up. We're not doing so great either and they're r leading with what now? 1 POINT!

Don't Tell me about fucking Arsenal. They're a puddle of piss.
The day a Jürgen Klopp team use Arsenal as a standard... We might as well pack it in, go home and disband this team.

* Kak = dung/shit/excrement/ordure/droppings/faeces/manure/caca/
poop/stool/cack/muck/doo-doo

[JP-65]

From Dale Johnson's weekly VAR review: