Topic: Pro Cycling 2023

[Knight]

Todays stage played out as expected.Which was a good thing as the route the final 5 km took was as moody as it gets.

A great win, from a great rider.

He must be hugely relieved. Been a long time in the wilderness for someone of his calibre.

[De La Goal]

My concern is people building up this double, Giro-Tour double is rare, iirc, only seven riders have managed it. Too lazy to search.

As to a triple...it's never been done simply because asking any rider to have form for 60 plus days over the course of a season isn't doable.

The last one was a ripped off his tits Pantani, was it not?

The double... It's being built up because (a) Pogi is an exceptional rider who has clealy managed his race diary with the double in mind, and (b) the issues attached to the other probable GC contenders.

Maybe Pogi will have a jours (or Tour) sans, Roglic will fall off, Remco will Remco, Vingo will face post-crash struggles - and Simon Yates will win the whole shebang. Or Adam. But I would make Pogi a strong favourite at this point - as do the bookies for that matter.

The triple - I'm being somewhat facetious. But hey, Sepp Kuss rode all three GTs last year, winning the third... 

Spoiler

Yeah, I *know* he wasn't riding for GC in any of 'em, but hey.

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[SouthDerryLaggo]

Pogacar seems to be able to keep himself at at least 90% all year which not many riders can do. Jonas goes 100% for the tour and does little else all year, similar to Lance. If Jonas is t fully fit at the tour then pogacar at 90% has a good chance

[De La Goal]

To be fair to Vingo, he looked very strong in winning Tirreno Adriatico. And he clearly fancied his chances at last year's Vuelta before Jumbo belatedly told him to stop attacking his teammates. But he just doesn't go for the classics - which is why he's less fun than, say, the Slovenian twosome, Pidcock, even S. Yates.

Pre-cancer, Armstrong was a pretty formidable one-day racer. It's only after he "got with the program" that the Tour became the sole focus. He'd still pop up in other races - I saw him at Circuit de la Sarthe back in 2001, for example.

[Baby Huey]

To be fair to Vingo, he looked very strong in winning Tirreno Adriatico. And he clearly fancied his chances at last year's Vuelta before Jumbo belatedly told him to stop attacking his teammates. But he just doesn't go for the classics - which is why he's less fun than, say, the Slovenian twosome, Pidcock, even S. Yates.

Pre-cancer, Armstrong was a pretty formidable one-day racer. It's only after he "got with the program" that the Tour became the sole focus. He'd still pop up in other races - I saw him at Circuit de la Sarthe back in 2001, for example.

Really? Museeuw was pretty formidable, you know, 6 monuments, amongst a plethora of other one day wins.

Armstrong won a Klasikoa and F-W, not much else. The Worlds he won was more to do with the attritional nature of that day, the weather and course were treacherous and  the favourites, along with lots of riders packed. But he stuck at it and won, so he can have that. Formidable, no.

As to his doping, he was on a full programme prior to his 1998 transformation.

[Baby Huey]

Pogacar seems to be able to keep himself at at least 90% all year which not many riders can do. Jonas goes 100% for the tour and does little else all year, similar to Lance. If Jonas is t fully fit at the tour then pogacar at 90% has a good chance

Vinegaard's programme is quite good. One race a month from Camino thru the start of the Tdf, for the past two seasons. The one month he doesn't race is spent at altitude. Same last year too. He did ride LBL and other races in the past, not well though.

[Baby Huey]

Just caught up with the finish at the Giro. Decent lead-out from Gaviria. Seriously, Milan is so like Kittel. Pure brutal speed. A better rider over the lumpy bits than Kittel was too. A nice break out race this.

[De La Goal]

Armstrong might not have been right at the top level of classics riders - but he was well on his way pre-cancer. Have a gander at his 1996 palmares - his last before illness. He was just 24 then.

And sure, he was already doping (like most of the pros), but the "program" I have in mind is the one for the Tour - and everything that implied. If nothing else, cancer seems to have triggered a realisation that he could win a dozen monuments, but that wouldn't impress the US audience as much as a single yellow jersey.

NB: I am absolutely *not* a Lance fan - more than anything, I despise the way he went well beyond the "patron" role and became an outright bully of the likes of Bassons and Simeone.

[De La Goal]

More importantly - today's Giro stage... Blimey.

Spoiler

Does anyone seriously see Pogi losing it from here? He's not very crashy, rarely gets sick, doesn't need to take risks... And how does the final week of the Giro take shape now?

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[SouthDerryLaggo]

final week is surely breaks winning every day. Ive never seen a mountain stage so dominant since..... landis and Froome really.

[San Diego Red]

final week is surely breaks winning every day. Ive never seen a mountain stage so dominant since..... landis and Froome really.

Pog didnt have to do that today if he didn't want to. He is hungry to win stages etc. He was under no threat from the rest of the GC peeps (and lets be honest there is no one in that group who can touch him). So he will probably try and win a stage or 2 before the end.....he probably shouldn't and save some energy for the TDF

[Knight]

final week is surely breaks winning every day. Ive never seen a mountain stage so dominant since..... landis and Froome really.

Landis' thing wasn't a thing really given he was immediately busted for it. Don't think Froome ever took so much time in such a relative short amount of time although he did have that epic getaway in the Giro which was probably the single most impressive GT stage I've ever watched.

[Rosario]

Vingegaard up Col du Granon in 2022 was more impressive given how quickly he put minutes into all his rivals. But 3 minutes in 15-20km is still mighty impressive even if the field is relatively weak compared to Pogacar.

[SouthDerryLaggo]

Landis' thing wasn't a thing really given he was immediately busted for it. Don't think Froome ever took so much time in such a relative short amount of time although he did have that epic getaway in the Giro which was probably the single most impressive GT stage I've ever watched.

Yeah I’m talking about the Froome giro thing. He should probably take it easy this last week now and prepare for the tour.

[De La Goal]

Not to disrespect Pogi - he's clearly a supreme rider - but I think yesterday may have been as much about the other GC "contenders" being resigned to their collective fate as Pogi crushing 'em. They all knew chasing him down would be a hopeless endeavour, so left him.to it and conserved energy for the final week of podium-battling.

The 2018 Froome triple peak escape was another thing altogether - and one of the most audacious moves I've ever seen in a GT.

[SouthDerryLaggo]

cluster fuck of a stage again today. The Stelvio replacement has now been removed, the riders don't know where they are starting. Probably a sprint up the final climb

[De La Goal]

Could be fun!

[Knight]

Pog didnt have to do that today if he didn't want to. He is hungry to win stages etc. He was under no threat from the rest of the GC peeps (and lets be honest there is no one in that group who can touch him). So he will probably try and win a stage or 2 before the end.....he probably shouldn't and save some energy for the TDF

Pogacar busy being quite the ‘cannibal’. Those, ‘allows others to win shouts’ haven’t aged well so far. I suspect he’ll do so a little from now on though.

[De La Goal]

Pogi slipping today. Is this the beginning of the end?

Spoiler

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[Knight]

2023 Giro and 2024 Giro offer 2 very different ways for a GC competition to be incredibly boring!

[De La Goal]

Pogi was just too good. No-one was anywhere close to his level. At least he honoured the race by going for the stage wins rather than sitting back and playing it safe.

It might not have been a gripping competition - but it was quite something to watch a rider like that at the absolute height of his powers. If it hadn't been for those flapping thumb-loops, he might even have beaten Ganna in the second ITT and taken a seventh stage.

Now we'll have to see if Remco and Rogla are ready for Le Tour. Because if they're not, that'll be another procession.

[San Diego Red]

Pogi was just too good. No-one was anywhere close to his level. At least he honoured the race by going for the stage wins rather than sitting back and playing it safe.

It might not have been a gripping competition - but it was quite something to watch a rider like that at the absolute height of his powers. If it hadn't been for those flapping thumb-loops, he might even have beaten Ganna in the second ITT and taken a seventh stage.

Now we'll have to see if Remco and Rogla are ready for Le Tour. Because if they're not, that'll be another procession.

I still wouldn't rule out Jonas......feel like he will be at the Tour even though his team are being very coy about it. If he is there I feel like he will be in decent shape....he isn't going to show up if he knows he has no chance of winning

[De La Goal]

I can't see Vingegaard starting Le Tour if he hasn't had any racing beforehand. His team are giving it the old "training is better preparation" line. But even Pogi was short of the required level last year when he came in undercooked after a wrist fracture.

Vingo's injuries were far more serious. Would Visma really let him race Le Tour as rehab?

It would be great to see those two duke it out (notwithstanding Rogla and Remco) - but unless Jonas suddenly pops up at, say, the Tour of Slovenia, it seems decreasingly likely.

[Knight]

I can't see Vingegaard starting Le Tour if he hasn't had any racing beforehand. His team are giving it the old "training is better preparation" line. But even Pogi was short of the required level last year when he came in undercooked after a wrist fracture.

Vingo's injuries were far more serious. Would Visma really let him race Le Tour as rehab?

It would be great to see those two duke it out (notwithstanding Rogla and Remco) - but unless Jonas suddenly pops up at, say, the Tour of Slovenia, it seems decreasingly likely.

They're not going to let him race it as rehab. But if his injuries are healed and it's just his athletic level which is unclear, he could certainly ride. That is, if he's at the cycling equivalent of 'returned to 1st team training' in football terms, he can ride. If he's still in the 'on his own programme' in football terms, he won't. It'd probably function as good prep for the Vuelta if it became clear he didn't have the level to compete at the top end.

[Rosario]

If Vingegaard is on the TDF start line I think it’s safe to assume he’s hitting training numbers that the team think are good enough to win the race. I just can’t see them sending the two time defending champ unless they think he can truely compete with the likes of Pogacar and Roglic.

If he does line up it’ll be interesting to see how much time Pogacar looks to take on him in the first week or two of the race as you would think he’ll suffer a bit in the last week with the Giro already in his legs. Whereas Jonas should only get stronger the more kilometres he racks up.

[SouthDerryLaggo]

I can't seen Jonas entering the tour unless he's in the shape to win it. Could be unbelievable if remco and roglic are in good shape too.

[De La Goal]

Dauphine starts on Sunday, so should get a good idea of Remco and Rogla's form from that.

I'm sticking to my guns on Vingo - if he's in Florence for Le Grand Depart and hasn't raced beforehand, there's no way he's winning it.

Seems weird not to be mentioning any Ineos riders ahead of a Tour de France - but it doesn't seem likely, does it?

Geoghegan-Hart now at Lidl-Trek, but has done nowt much this season. He's going in the Dauphine as well - but sounds like rehab from last year's crash/broken femur was long, painful and not necessarily fully successful.

[SouthDerryLaggo]

Is the Ineos dauphine team the team they will bring to the tour do we reckon? Cos if it is… fuck there’s no threat there at all. Actually trying to think here who they have. Would Bernal go?

[De La Goal]

That team in full:

91    Rodriguez Carlos    
92    Castroviejo Jonathan    
93    De Plus Laurens    
94    Fraile Omar    
95    Kwiatkowski Michal    
96    Tarling Joshua    
97    Turner Ben

Rodriguez was 5th on GC in Le Tour last year, winning a stage. He would have won the white jersey but for Pogacar, right? Some have been talking him up as the big Ineos GC hope, but he's not really shown he's at that level - yet. Having said that, this season he's won Romandie (ahead of Vlasov, Ayuso, Mas, Carapaz, G-Hart and Bernal, among others) and was second to Ayuso in the Basque Tour.

All the talk has been that Bernal, Pidcock and Thomas will ride Le Tour. The latter, definitely not for GC - Pidcock, you'd have thought not either.

Compare and contrast to the Bora line-up for the Dauphine:

31    Roglic Primoz    
32    Denz Nico    
33    Haller Marco    
34    Hindley Jai    
35    Jungels Bob    
36    Sobrero Matteo    
37    Vlasov Aleksandr

Looks a bit tasty that, doesn't it?

[SouthDerryLaggo]

That bora team is class. Just wait to they get the red bull money. Ineos will
Be dropping out of the champions league positions