Topic: Struggling with depression

[Swift417]

Amazing replies SoS, thank you.

I think with regards to self harm it still sits inside that “taboo” section of societies collective mind. It only seems in the past 20 years, if that long, that mental health has become a conversation that can even be had. One of my overriding feelings when I first started to suffer was shame. I grew up in the age where it was weakness, not illness. I remember when I first started working that anyone off with “stress” were derided and maligned. Often you would then see them ultimately managed out as managers didn’t want to deal with it. I never spoke ill of people or joined in with that sort of thing, but I do remember being quietly frustrated that they were always off work and having to cover for them. I didn’t understand or appreciate it at the time that the fact I was able to was such a gift. With that conditioning though how was someone supposed to feel safe in admitting things? I was so lucky that when I had to be honest with my bosses at the time that they were so supportive. They were sales guys at heart so would definitely have been in the weakness camp I thought. That was my first lesson that you are not alone and there are people who will surprise you and step up if you let them. That first step though… man that is hard.

I’m so sorry you did not have the support you deserved SoS. You have done amazingly to not only position yourself to cope with it but to help others. That is a monumental achievement and I hope you feel pride in that.

[Swift417]

I realise that I'm depressed before I actually feel it, if you see what I mean, by the way I'm picking fights with idiots on Twitter. Sometimes until MrF comes through and says '*why* do you keep arguing with racists??"

I understand this. For me it’s if I start drinking and I want to kick on and act like a 20 year I know I have something going on. It’s like I’m looking for trouble to avoid things and even today can catch me unawares.

[Son of Spion]

Amazing replies SoS, thank you.

I think with regards to self harm it still sits inside that “taboo” section of societies collective mind. It only seems in the past 20 years, if that long, that mental health has become a conversation that can even be had. One of my overriding feelings when I first started to suffer was shame. I grew up in the age where it was weakness, not illness. I remember when I first started working that anyone off with “stress” were derided and maligned. Often you would then see them ultimately managed out as managers didn’t want to deal with it. I never spoke ill of people or joined in with that sort of thing, but I do remember being quietly frustrated that they were always off work and having to cover for them. I didn’t understand or appreciate it at the time that the fact I was able to was such a gift. With that conditioning though how was someone supposed to feel safe in admitting things? I was so lucky that when I had to be honest with my bosses at the time that they were so supportive. They were sales guys at heart so would definitely have been in the weakness camp I thought. That was my first lesson that you are not alone and there are people who will surprise you and step up if you let them. That first step though… man that is hard.

I’m so sorry you did not have the support you deserved SoS. You have done amazingly to not only position yourself to cope with it but to help others. That is a monumental achievement and I hope you feel pride in that.

Cheers Swifty. One thing that does make my past feel worthwhile is the fact I've been able to use it to help others at times. I'd not change anything about my past now, even if given a magic wand.

I know what you mean regarding the taboo of self-harm. It's always been vastly misunderstood. I remember it being called attention seeking behaviour, but I always hid mine. It only got uncovered by accident. It's something most do in secret. Their thing. Their coping strategy.

Another thing often believed is that it is an attempt at suicide. Now whilst I've always had suicidal ideation, self-harm was my attempt to help keep me alive, not kill myself. I've had a suicide kit for decades. I still have it now. And if I ever used it it won't involve cutting. There would be no messing about. So yes, SH is more about trying to stay alive than it is about suicide. So many people don't understand that, though.

I hope the mods are ok with me talking like this? I know it can be heavy going for other readers. It's just daily life for me, so I sometimes forget that it's not comfortable reading for others. I do hope in some way it's useful to someone out there though. Even if they aren't posters, but just read on here.

There is more understanding of mental health issues these days, thankfully. People generally can be more open about it. It's great that your bosses were supportive. Sometimes it's the most unlikely people who step up, understand and support.

Those tough first steps you mentioned. Always the hardest, aren't they. Worth it though. Addressing things is always hard, but I remember a day a long, long time ago when it dawned on me that not addressing them means your life is ultimately harder. Often in these circumstances, staying the same is ultimately more painful than grasping the nettle and making difficult changes.

All the best, Swifty.

[Black Bull Nova]

I definitely agree on the distraction you mention, although I don't even call it that these days. I frame it simply as doing things you value doing with your time. I don't do other things in order to distract me, but by doing things I value doing, distraction happens naturally. The difference being that doing something with the specific aim of distraction is an avoidance strategy. But doing what you value isn't. It's proactive, values-based living, and more fulfilling as a result.

They used to call it keeping yourself busy didn't they, more the better if it's something you  enjoy or is useful

I noticed something last week that made me grin to myself though. I got up about 4am to go to the toilet. Straight away those thoughts were there. But I just said "oh, you again" in my mind, had a piss then got back into bed and went to sleep. Mindful Awareness in a nutshell. Acknowledge it, make room for it, don't fight it. Get on with something more productive. In that case, getting back to sleep.

For quite a long time I've found making endless and pointless lists very useful as a way of dealing with thoughts in the darkness, I never get them finished as I usually drop off before I finish them, then I can try again and again and again.


Try listing every football club in the country, or all those clubs with two consecutive letters, the possibilities are endless.


At the moment I'm trying to remember every kid in our year at school, there's probably 120 ish, I've reached 80ish, that will get me to sleep another 50-60 times at the least before I get bored and you can have a laugh with yourself as well on that one. It's amazing what stays in your brain, waiting to be re-called, just don't necessarily poke around in the wrong corner.


They used to call that one 'counting sheep'

[Black Bull Nova]

Whilst I started a thread on other MH issues it probably makes sense to keep them all together as they don't necessarily belong in separate pots, maybe rename this thread subtly Struggling with depression (and other things)


People under-estimate anxiety, melancholia has been around for 1000's of years but anxiety is only starting to be seen for the damage it causes, it underlies psychosis, paranoia, physical health problems and many more issues. Whilst depression feels like a a dark stormy, cloudy day anxiety is much more like the lightning that accompanies that sometimes and it bounces around your head unpredictably, it is a sort of loss of control but don't under-estimate it's corrosive nature when it gets too much.




While I'm talking about history, the lunacy act 1890 formed the basis of all MH legislation until 1959 and, believe it or not that defined Mental Health by four types (I kid you not, 1959)

a)   Idiots, that is to say, persons in whose case there exists mental defectiveness of such a degree that they are unable to guard themselves against common physical dangers
b)    Imbeciles, that is to say, persons in whose case there exists mental defectiveness which, though not amounting to idiocy, is yet so pronounced that they are incapable of managing themselves or their affairs or, in the case of children, of being taught to do so.
c)    Feeble minded persons, that is to say, persons in whose case there exists mental defectiveness which, though not amounting to imbecility, is yet so pronounced that they require care, supervision and control for their own protection or for the protection of other or, in the case of children….make them…incapable of receiving education at school.
d)    Moral Defectives, that is to say, persons in whose case there exists mental defectiveness coupled with strongly vicious or criminal propensities and who require care, supervision and control for the protection of others.
We truly have moved on since Shankly took over Liverpool

[damomad]

Thought that was a list of the types who post in the player threads on the main forum.

[Black Bull Nova]

Thought that was a list of the types who post in the player threads on the main forum.

 


It was quite like that last night

[Peabee]

Whilst I started a thread on other MH issues it probably makes sense to keep them all together as they don't necessarily belong in separate pots, maybe rename this thread subtly Struggling with depression (and other things)


People under-estimate anxiety, melancholia has been around for 1000's of years but anxiety is only starting to be seen for the damage it causes, it underlies psychosis, paranoia, physical health problems and many more issues. Whilst depression feels like a a dark stormy, cloudy day anxiety is much more like the lightning that accompanies that sometimes and it bounces around your head unpredictably, it is a sort of loss of control but don't under-estimate it's corrosive nature when it gets too much.




While I'm talking about history, the lunacy act 1890 formed the basis of all MH legislation until 1959 and, believe it or not that defined Mental Health by four types (I kid you not, 1959)

a)   Idiots, that is to say, persons in whose case there exists mental defectiveness of such a degree that they are unable to guard themselves against common physical dangers
b)    Imbeciles, that is to say, persons in whose case there exists mental defectiveness which, though not amounting to idiocy, is yet so pronounced that they are incapable of managing themselves or their affairs or, in the case of children, of being taught to do so.
c)    Feeble minded persons, that is to say, persons in whose case there exists mental defectiveness which, though not amounting to imbecility, is yet so pronounced that they require care, supervision and control for their own protection or for the protection of other or, in the case of children….make them…incapable of receiving education at school.
d)    Moral Defectives, that is to say, persons in whose case there exists mental defectiveness coupled with strongly vicious or criminal propensities and who require care, supervision and control for the protection of others.
We truly have moved on since Shankly took over Liverpool

Sunak is probably trying to bring this back.

[So… Howard Philips]

Sunak is probably trying to bring this back.

Reads like a number of his Cabinet Members and weirdo back benchers.

[fridgepants]

I feel fucking miserable at the moment. Just putting that out there. Not just because of yesterday - that actually made me feel really hopeful for the future in terms of the team, even if I worry that all my faves will go now Jurgen has, this is why I'm so bad at FPL because I just want to hang onto players I like! - but I just feel like everything's massively pointless and when I feel like that I'm just existing, not feeling anything, not doing anything. Don't even leave the house for days, sometimes. I'd really benefit from going out for a swim or something but a) I haven't been for so long that starting again feels intimidating, even if I stick to 20mins b) I'm still taking medication for a stomach thing and they advise not swimming when you've got something like that going on, which is fair enough. Wonder if the medication is similar to antibiotics in the sense of making me feel really shite for no reason at all. It's completely fucked up my skin which, shallow as it is, is making me feel a bit crap about myself as well, I look like I have measles or something.

Coming up to Liverpool in a couple of weeks and maybe a break from home and work will be something that shakes my brain up a bit. Maybe we can head over to New Brighton for a walk or something, last time we were there it was November and raining and we couldn't get chips so just had a pint in The Ferry.

[Peabee]

Medication can knock you about, especially if it's making you feel like that with the skin problems from it. Don't be too hard on yourself, just get through the course of meds (or speak with your GP about the side effects if it's a long term med?).

Re the swimming and intimidation. Think about how you feel about anyone else you see swimming or out doing some exercise no matter what shape they're in. I bet you don't think anything about them really, and, if anything, it will be something positive if you see someone making an effort to exercise or get back in shape. I was majorly self conscious when I first started running - and again when returning to running after a while - but when I was in great shape, I used to see this guy every week for quite a while in a park in Wandsworth. He was only walking up a bit of ramp, holding on to the railings each time and then walking back down holding on to the railings. I didn't know what his issue was, maybe he'd had an accident or operation or just out of shape. He was sweating profusely, really struggling, but over the weeks and months, he was getting fitter and more able and doing more, then going for walks around the park. I bet he felt self conscious the first time he went on the park to do that, but he never needed to be. I'd often think of him if I was struggling on a long run or workout. He was an inspiration really.

Look forward to your break too!

[fridgepants]

It's not the reaction of others that bothers me - I'm so short sighted that I can't see them anyway - it's more that I've lost the stamina and when it's a struggle it's easier to give up. I was regularly doing 45mins of laps non-stop three times a week, and struggling to manage 20 or less feels really dispiriting. I know I'm going to feel better for just going and doing it no matter how much actual exercise is done but it begins to feel like such a long journey back to where I was. (It doesn't help that both my work schedule changed a bit and the pool that I could go to on the way to the office first thing in the morning closed, so threw me off in terms of keeping a routine. Much easier to talk yourself out of it if it's 20mins by bus each way.) Just feels like another thing I want to be good at but am not, or plan to stick to but don't. We're all our own worst enemy sometimes, aren't we?

I had a motivation last year as I wanted to get fit and get practice in in the hope of going snorkelling on holiday - in the end I hurt my foot and couldn't do more than paddle, but I know sticking to it helped me do all the walking I wanted to do. Unfortunately I can't book another trip to somewhere warm enough to swim in the sea for a while (unless Southport is warmer than I remember?)

[Black Bull Nova]

It's not the reaction of others that bothers me - I'm so short sighted that I can't see them anyway - it's more that I've lost the stamina and when it's a struggle it's easier to give up. I was regularly doing 45mins of laps non-stop three times a week, and struggling to manage 20 or less feels really dispiriting. I know I'm going to feel better for just going and doing it no matter how much actual exercise is done but it begins to feel like such a long journey back to where I was. (It doesn't help that both my work schedule changed a bit and the pool that I could go to on the way to the office first thing in the morning closed, so threw me off in terms of keeping a routine. Much easier to talk yourself out of it if it's 20mins by bus each way.) Just feels like another thing I want to be good at but am not, or plan to stick to but don't. We're all our own worst enemy sometimes, aren't we?

I had a motivation last year as I wanted to get fit and get practice in in the hope of going snorkelling on holiday - in the end I hurt my foot and couldn't do more than paddle, but I know sticking to it helped me do all the walking I wanted to do. Unfortunately I can't book another trip to somewhere warm enough to swim in the sea for a while (unless Southport is warmer than I remember?)

It's warm enough, it's finding the sea that's the problem.

[LuverlyRita]

b) I'm still taking medication for a stomach thing and they advise not swimming when you've got something like that going on, which is fair enough. Wonder if the medication is similar to antibiotics in the sense of making me feel really shite for no reason at all. It's completely fucked up my skin which, shallow as it is, is making me feel a bit crap about myself as well, I look like I have measles or something.

Have you checked if you're allergic to your meds? My other half had a similar reaction to some tablets once and that was the problem.
If you find the sea at Southport, it may be worth giving the swimming a miss. United Utilities don't have the greatest record on the turd-spilling front but I think there's a decent indoor pool near the fun fair.