Author Topic: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')  (Read 45363 times)

Offline MinnyRed

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #520 on: November 30, 2017, 03:03:00 pm »
Oh yeah- what a miss from Diouf!?

Feck me!

The one at the end where he hit the bar?  Ruled offside I think

Offline AshLFC

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #521 on: November 30, 2017, 03:08:52 pm »
Not an easy place to go at the best of times so pleased with the result. A little fortunate with Mignolet maybe, but you've still got to make it count and we did just that. What a player Salah is too. Unbelievable Jeff

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #522 on: November 30, 2017, 03:11:32 pm »
One thing I see consistently with us, something I saw again against Stoke, our defenders are awful at clearing the ball; they slice kicks, mishit headers and kick the ball straight into other players pretty frequently. When this happens and the ball drops anywhere from 12-20 or so yards out, I rarely ever see Wijnaldum, Henderson, Can, Milner, any central midfielder really in that holding position to block the follow up shot or win the second ball.

This is from a Matip header into the middle of our own box. Can is at the corner of the box here marking no one, Wijnaldum has lost Allen and Firmino as the 10 is up the pitch somewhere.


This is after a Crouch header. Can is down injured however at this point we have Can, Wijnaldum and Milner on the pitch. Wijnaldum is off to the side not doing anything and Milner is near the ball but doesn't know Allen is there.


I seem to see this every game we play regardless of who is in the side, terrible clearances picked up by free midfielders in dangerous positions. Is this just something all teams have to deal with or are we making some really horrible mistakes?
It's an interesting point in as much as the pictures don't look great. I too get the impression that we seem unable to clear lines very well. However, in general we also concede very few chances for opposition players to take advantage of. Stoke weren't creating a host of guilt-edge chances that they kept missing. My point is that there's possibly a danger that fans heighten such situations in their mind even though in reality it is possibly far less of an issue. Watching with a fan's anxiety doesn't create a sensible viewing experience so proper, measured analysis of what is actually happening can be skewed.

I am not saying that Liverpool couldn't improve when it comes to clearing out of their box, but it's possibly not such a common theme - even if we think it is.

On a broader point, the 'bad-defence' narrative is so exaggerated that any defensive issue or goal concession leads to such an overblown outcry. This is borne out in the post-match focus on Mignolet's foul - some people on here seem to be giving this event disproportionate airtime simply because slating the defence has become a pastime worth engaging in. Of course we can discuss the negatives of a generally positive match, but there's definitely a negative shift in some of the post-match talk...it's almost become a habit for some.

PS: Schmidt, this is not aimed at you! :)

Offline Schmidt

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #523 on: November 30, 2017, 03:52:56 pm »
It's an interesting point in as much as the pictures don't look great. I too get the impression that we seem unable to clear lines very well. However, in general we also concede very few chances for opposition players to take advantage of. Stoke weren't creating a host of guilt-edge chances that they kept missing. My point is that there's possibly a danger that fans heighten such situations in their mind even though in reality it is possibly far less of an issue. Watching with a fan's anxiety doesn't create a sensible viewing experience so proper, measured analysis of what is actually happening can be skewed.

I am not saying that Liverpool couldn't improve when it comes to clearing out of their box, but it's possibly not such a common theme - even if we think it is.

On a broader point, the 'bad-defence' narrative is so exaggerated that any defensive issue or goal concession leads to such an overblown outcry. This is borne out in the post-match focus on Mignolet's foul - some people on here seem to be giving this event disproportionate airtime simply because slating the defence has become a pastime worth engaging in. Of course we can discuss the negatives of a generally positive match, but there's definitely a negative shift in some of the post-match talk...it's almost become a habit for some.

PS: Schmidt, this is not aimed at you! :)

No worries! I know we tend to blow these things out of proportion which is why I went back and picked out some examples instead of just following my guy. There were more, like the Fletcher chance for example, but it wasn't in the highlights and watching back 90 minutes of football in work is probably frowned upon!

The main reason for my post wasn't necessarily to bash the players, more to ask some of the more knowledgeable posters why this keeps happening and is it more common than it should be, because from my limited knowledge it seems like we gift these chances to teams almost every game and they just get brushed away as opposition luck.

Offline Golyo

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #524 on: November 30, 2017, 04:12:24 pm »
It actually isn’t an automatic red anymore.  They changed the rule a little recently so referees have some leeway to give a yellow instead of a red in those situations. 
Inside the penalty area.
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Offline the_red_pill

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #525 on: November 30, 2017, 04:39:56 pm »
The one at the end where he hit the bar?  Ruled offside I think
Yeah I know, but even then. What a sitter!
The fact he was ruled offside saved his blushes. He had some weird stuff going on earlier during the game also.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 04:42:10 pm by the_red_pill »
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Offline BabuYagu

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #526 on: November 30, 2017, 05:43:00 pm »
Mignolet is awful with the ball.  His default pass is a hopeful long ball.  Would much rather have someone like Karius in goal so that we could at least attempt to play out of the back when the opposing team is pressing us higher up the pitch.
Purely in terms of accuracy - Migs distribution is quite good. He will find his target more than most in the league. I think the problems with his distribution are:-
1. Inability to make quick decisions - this results in us being unable to catch teams in transition once he claims the ball
2. Confidence in his distribution - when where there is a free man, he seems to lack the confidence to play it early, second guessing himself, thus further slowing the process down.

The end result is wait, wait, wait some more, then simple pass out when the opposition has cleared. If the opposition decides to not clear off, like Burnley, then he has big problemsni
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Offline lewisfvv

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #527 on: November 30, 2017, 05:52:29 pm »
Decent away great to see so many kids in the away end. Salah just is differebt class isnt he

Offline Hazell

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #528 on: November 30, 2017, 07:48:35 pm »
My biggest problem with that still is Britos fouling Mignolet. That causes the flapping of Mignolet which directly results in a goal. There was a similar goal earlier in the season too - I think it was Leicester? Okazaki on Migs? Anyway, one of those weird ones where keepers are a protected species and you aren't allowed to touch them. Except ours. You can do what you fucking like to ours.

Man I forgot about Okazaki's foul on Mignolet. The penalty they got was dodgy as well. Even if Mignolet's was a red card yesterday, we're owed some luck this season given some of the decisions (Watford's offside winner, being denied a penalty against Burnley). Heck, we were even owed something at The Britannia given Woodburn should have been given a penalty there last season.
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Offline Red Raw

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #529 on: November 30, 2017, 08:44:24 pm »
For the record, this really was boss.



Love watching Fletcher; can't decide whether to track Salah or Mané and by the time he's made up his mind its too late.  :)

Offline lfcgeorge

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #530 on: November 30, 2017, 09:00:16 pm »
Oh mane mane do do do do do do oh mane mane do do do do do do

Offline Crosby Nick

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #531 on: November 30, 2017, 09:23:33 pm »
That volley was very like Riise’s at Cardiff in the League Cup final v Chelsea.

https://youtu.be/Nrg4GpfDIqE
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 09:25:47 pm by Les Shooter NickGavin »

Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #532 on: November 30, 2017, 09:43:49 pm »
For the record, this really was boss.



Love watching Fletcher; can't decide whether to track Salah or Mané and by the time he's made up his mind its too late.  :)
It's a brilliant goal.

Offline BabuYagu

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #533 on: November 30, 2017, 09:58:12 pm »
It's a brilliant goal.

Pace goal. It shouldn't count. The ref had a mare so no wonder he allowed it!
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Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #534 on: November 30, 2017, 10:01:05 pm »
It's a brilliant goal.

Mane is proper Boss for that goal.
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Offline newterp

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #535 on: November 30, 2017, 10:01:13 pm »
It’s true the ball did go very fast into the back of the net.

Offline Hazell

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #536 on: November 30, 2017, 10:06:32 pm »
It's a brilliant goal.

My favourite bit is Salah making Lee Grant look like a buffoon.
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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #537 on: November 30, 2017, 10:30:46 pm »
He hadn’t though. Matip simply decelerated once he saw Mignolet heading across his line. The goalie left him no choice.

We’ve seen Matip deal with these situations time and again. Left to his own devices he would almost certainly have dealt with it this time.

Matip let him pass. He should and could have slowed down to give Mignolet room AND blocked Diouf's path.
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Offline the_red_pill

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #538 on: November 30, 2017, 10:45:58 pm »
My favourite bit is Salah making Lee Grant look like a buffoon.
Really was a brilliant goal.
Suarez I can understand.. confusing the opposition and causing a frenzy, but to have our front 3 all doing that- a blitzkrieg of havoc causing manic running all over the place and ending with Salah in space capped off with that superb volley is just outstanding!
The difference in class is levels apart. I mean look at 'em! They didnt' know what was going on- all over the place. Look at Charlie Adam! ;D

The buildup to that goal deserves as much admiration as the goal itself. Mane simple devoured Fletcher- boots an all! He was blitzed by both Mane and Salah.
Keeper was taken out of the game with a beauty of a cross- he landed on his arse and rolled over like a toddler playing in the sand! ;D
The lad "marking" Salah looks like he's just there to make up the numbers. You can see the reaction after Salah's volley. He looked like a right plonker. You almost feel for him. ;D
Fantastic!
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 11:02:09 pm by the_red_pill »
"Some listen to understand. Others listen to respond."
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In such a sumptuous festival of shite, I wouldn't be so quick to pick a winner..

But he'd make the shortlist

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #539 on: November 30, 2017, 10:56:46 pm »
Matip let him pass. He should and could have slowed down to give Mignolet room AND blocked Diouf's path.

I don’t think he could block his path. The ball was too far ahead of both players for him to do that legally. If Matip had blocked him off it would have been a free kick and probably a booking for Matip. And that’s the point. The ball was a long way ahead of Diouf too. He wasn’t in full control of it obviously and was a long way from getting a shot in. Everything suggested the goalie could get the ball. But Mignolet was too slow to move and, more importantly, too slow to tackle.
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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #540 on: November 30, 2017, 10:58:06 pm »
It’s true the ball did go very fast into the back of the net.
Thanks for explaining it`s true  ;D

Offline me76

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #541 on: November 30, 2017, 11:11:56 pm »
Brilliant, brilliant goal.  Loved it.  That hit at the end!  So good I'm changing my avatar!
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 11:18:34 pm by me76 »
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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #542 on: December 1, 2017, 12:06:42 am »
Good win in the end but god we rode our luck at times. Mig shouldve been sent off for a silly foul, tho I would put some of the blame on Matip for not dealing with the ball first. We got lucky there, but otherwise thougt Mig had a good game, he dealt with the crosses well and was commanding which helped a lot.

Solanke prob shouldve scored but his assist for the goal was neat and that through ball deserved a finish which Mane could've provide. Not sure what happened there but at least  Mane got 1.

Just shows Salah is in the zone when he is putting away nearly every chance that comes to him. Long may it continue!
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Offline Marty 85

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #543 on: December 1, 2017, 01:47:54 am »
Basically, some of our fans think they are Bill Burr. But without being actually funny.

They play the role of angry, opinionated guy in a bar

 ;D

Offline Frizzo

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #544 on: December 1, 2017, 04:29:00 am »
Matip let him pass. He should and could have slowed down to give Mignolet room AND blocked Diouf's path.

There's no point arguing it mate. You're right but there's no point. Both players could've done better but people just have their biases and will excuse or blame a player based on those rather than the actual incident.

Offline elbow

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #545 on: December 1, 2017, 12:11:22 pm »
It's a brilliant goal.

I can’t stop watching that, it’s mesmerising! The timing and the height of the ball.....fuck....


Just noticed the rather laidback reactions from Sadio and the rest of the lads!
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Offline pjk66

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #546 on: December 1, 2017, 12:25:34 pm »
Just noticed the rather laidback reactions from Sadio and the rest of the lads!
[/quote]

its almost like they are all saying sarcastically "wow surprise he did it again"

Offline BabuYagu

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #547 on: December 1, 2017, 12:37:36 pm »
There's no point arguing it mate. You're right but there's no point. Both players could've done better but people just have their biases and will excuse or blame a player based on those rather than the actual incident.
For me it's not about blame - it's about assessing a players abilities, decisions, skillsets and how they deal with problems.

If Mignolet is slow off his line, poor using his feet to deal with problems, reckless in challenging, slow to react - or whatever is being thrown at him, it doesn't really matter that Matip fucked up needing those skillsets to be called upon - he is either effective, or not, in dealing with problems using them. Because in our system closing big spaces quickly and challenging opponents for the ball is going to be high on the list of things the keeper needs to excel at.

For every 1-v-1 challenge our keeper makes there will be someone fucking up before that causing it to occur. But we still need a keeper good in those situations because they are going to happen. And the higher your line and larger your spacing between the defensive line, the more frequently they will occur. With us having split center backs and defending the half way line, we can expect a lot of 1-v-1. We can either be congratulating the keeper for dealing with (some of) them, or looking at which outfield to blame the goals on. I would much prefer the former.
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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #548 on: December 1, 2017, 01:10:57 pm »
Klopp conceded in his PC today that Mignolet should have been sent off.

This is more than just Simon being painfully slow what's even worse is that his decision making is nowhere near good enough. If you're gonna go for the ball you better be damn sure you're quick enough to get there first otherwise stay on your line and dare the opponent to beat you.

At the end of all ends my problem with Mignolet was never that he makes these mistakes it's that he doesn't compensate enough on the other end winning much more points than losing them. Lloris for example makes a good few mistakes every season but on the other hand there are a numbers of games every season where he wins his team points on his own much more than losing them. That's the main issue with Mignolet , there's no redeeming value with him as he doesn't make enough vital saves to compensate for all the mistakes he makes in a season.

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Re: FT Stoke 0-3 Liverpool (Mane 17', Salah x2 - 77' 82')
« Reply #549 on: December 1, 2017, 01:45:12 pm »
There's no point arguing it mate. You're right but there's no point. Both players could've done better but people just have their biases and will excuse or blame a player based on those rather than the actual incident.
Agreed. Let's look forward now, not back.

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