Author Topic: Liverpool FC 2004/5 - No Heart No Hope (Read 5797 times)

greentrees · « **Reply #40 on:** April 23, 2005, 07:21:41 pm »

he's not utter bollocks but he has made mistakes that have led to either a goal or putting everyones heart in their mouth.

He is inconsistant.......which is either down to age or ability.

I believe we need to buy in this position though I would keep him. He has done well in the past and performed well over the season conrtibuting to our semi final place in the champions league.

greentrees · « **Reply #41 on:** April 23, 2005, 07:25:22 pm »

Baros is disheartened at the moment I think, its the end of the season and could be moving on or staying. The situation with Stevie doesnt help either keeping your best players.

I think Morientes has shown enough to put faith in him next season. I think he will come good. Cisse has come on for the few minutes he has and shown more potenital than he did at the start of season when he basically spent his time forcing corners.

I hope Baros stays because the guy can be an absolute nightmare for any defense when he is on form. Yes he is very selfish and nees o get that head up but he is solid, strong and scares the shit out of most centre halves when he si running at them.

We'll come good.

This season would of been a test for anyone with injuries etc.

thewing · « **Reply #42 on:** April 23, 2005, 07:37:38 pm »

Quote from: vladallover on April 23, 2005, 07:20:42 pm

What and that cost us the game did it?

Djimi has been one of our better players this season and you think we should sell him. Maybe it's you who hasn't been watching.

What about Baros? - crap. Glad when he went off.
Morientes? - Oh he played today did he?

Well considering he was deployed as a LWB, who couldn't control the ball, sort of narrowed our attacking options(mostly came down the right before Riise came on)

Cost us the game, can't say that - but definitely didn't help

Yeah he's had a decent season, but do you honestly believe he's the left back for a team with Premiership aspirations??

Baros - was victimised by Popovic in the first 20 min, and could barely run(thought he'd done his knee after a min).
How Popovic stayed on the pitch(2 yellow cards at least) only the ref can answer...

Morientes - got on the end of a couple of crosses, and was unluck(good defending) to not get on the end of Stevie's through ball.He's like Owen, he'll be nowhere, then pop up and score you the winner(a la Portsmouth)

GingerRed · « **Reply #43 on:** April 23, 2005, 07:45:28 pm »

Some comments here are a little bit harsh, but I do think that the team selection was a bit poor.

It was a mistake to rest both Biscan and Alonso. I think Riise should have been on from the start. I'm still not convinced by Pellegrino either. Overall, just a lacklustre team performance, with nobody really standing out.

As for Gerrard's heart not being in it...well he certainly wasn't at his best today, that's for sure. The fact that Alonso is here means that losing Stevie won't be as big a loss as it might have been, though I hope he stays at Liverpool.

Time to give up on the league for this season, and concentrate on the European Cup. Disappointing, but I think we all knew that catching Everton was going to be a very difficult task.

DannyD · « **Reply #44 on:** April 23, 2005, 08:23:24 pm »

Quote from: Guz-kop on April 23, 2005, 05:42:12 pm

You said it yourself

12 months ago, we all wanted a mass revolution, we're getting one so lets have the fecking bottle to stick with it.

yes but it's no good if the leadership don't have a clue...Only the Bolshevik revolution can be classed as a success. The leadership knew every twist and turn of the opposition and fashioned their tactics accordingly.
AH! what we wouldn't give for a Trotsky now eh?

DannyD · « **Reply #45 on:** April 23, 2005, 08:25:57 pm »

Quote from: JohnsonRed on April 23, 2005, 07:05:44 pm

THis really annoys me.

If we had won noone would be questioning the team formation, team selection and heart.

Fickle as fuck.

I hope this was posted with tongue in cheek son

Alf · « **Reply #46 on:** April 23, 2005, 09:00:20 pm »

''No Heart No Hope''

Sounds like the majority of our away displays this season. Lack of strength in depth because of injuries and Houllier's poor signings have played their part. The 4-5-1 and the wing back formation that Rafa went with today are also to blame.

fudge · « **Reply #47 on:** April 23, 2005, 09:16:04 pm »

Quote from: JohnsonRed on April 23, 2005, 07:05:44 pm

THis really annoys me.

If we had won noone would be questioning the team formation, team selection and heart.

Fickle as fuck.

Chin up raffa lad.

If we'd won , of course we wouldn't but the 10 losses sort of focusses your mind

Dick Emery · « **Reply #48 on:** April 23, 2005, 09:39:56 pm »

It's about the quality of the players. We've only got a handful of top class players. We need more players of a higher calibre. It really is that simple.

I'm not being funny, but the majority of our players are not much better than those at Southampton, Portsmouth, WBA etc. They might be a bit better - but not much and they're not good enough really.

Riise, Baros, Traore, Kewell, Biscan, Nunez etc are ok - but you've got to see that they're not good enough over the long haul. They're nothing special. Yes, some have improved, and some are ok - but ok isn't good enough. You should be fucking brilliant to play for Liverpool.

It wasn't that long ago - well, it doesn't seem it to me - when we had teams whereby I wouldn't have swapped any of our players for any others at any other club. Now I'd swap most in virtually all positions. We've got to get better players and stop tolerating the 'ok/good-ish' players. Until then, we're in with the also-rans.

staplar · « **Reply #49 on:** April 23, 2005, 09:46:28 pm »

I like how some people think they know more about the squad than the manager. Rafa knows more about every player's stiuation than we do, he knows who should be playing and who shouldn't. I don't think he did anything wrong today, the players did. To call out Rafa for making mistakes whenever we lose is ridiculous. There's only so many things he can control, and how players perform isn't always one of them. He can't tell if a player is going to have an off day or have a blinder.

There's a reason why he's one of the top managers in Europe and we're behind computers, he knows what he's doing.

GingerRed · « **Reply #50 on:** April 23, 2005, 09:47:39 pm »

Dick,

Trouble is, big players often cost big money...

I agree with you though, if you want to win the league, you need class. However I don't think you necessarily need a team of galacticos. A few quality players[which we already have] will suffice, as long as the supporting players are fairly decent to. I really don't think that a great deal needs to be done to our team to make it top-quality.

GingerRed · « **Reply #51 on:** April 23, 2005, 09:49:10 pm »

Quote from: staplar on April 23, 2005, 09:46:28 pm

I like how some people think they know more about the squad than the manager. Rafa knows more about every player's stiuation than we do, he knows who should be playing and who shouldn't. I don't think he did anything wrong today, the players did. To call out Rafa for making mistakes whenever we lose is ridiculous. There's only so many things he can control, and how players perform isn't always one of them. He can't tell if a player is going to have an off day or have a blinder.

There's a reason why he's one of the top managers in Europe and we're behind computers, he knows what he's doing.

Yes mate, but this is a discussion board, and we can only offer our opinions. If we applied the 'Rafa knows best' rule, we'd be limited to moaning about the ticket office.

taters · « **Reply #52 on:** April 23, 2005, 09:56:39 pm »

NO HEART NO HOPE FUCKING SHIITE!!!

STICK THAT UP UR ARSE 2DAY SIDEWAYS!!!

All those who think the good times are just around the corner need to watch liverpool play more often

Dick Emery · « **Reply #53 on:** April 23, 2005, 10:00:24 pm »

Quote from: GingerRed on April 23, 2005, 09:47:39 pm

Dick,

Trouble is, big players often cost big money...

I agree with you though, if you want to win the league, you need class. However I don't think you necessarily need a team of galacticos. A few quality players[which we already have] will suffice, as long as the supporting players are fairly decent to. I really don't think that a great deal needs to be done to our team to make it top-quality.

I agree. We don't need absolute world-beaters in every position - though this would be good. But we do need better players. Our handful of top players can't play every match and if you lose one for a long time like we did with Alonso, we're knackered. Some of our players are just too run-of-the-mill. They're not good players. They're just ok players.

I just think that the majority of our squad is too ordinary. Man United are a long way short this year because they're squad isn't good enough. Their squad is miles better than ours.

Crazy-Horse · « **Reply #54 on:** April 23, 2005, 10:31:59 pm »

Quote from: Dick Emery on April 23, 2005, 09:39:56 pm

It's about the quality of the players. We've only got a handful of top class players. We need more players of a higher calibre. It really is that simple.

I'm not being funny, but the majority of our players are not much better than those at Southampton, Portsmouth, WBA etc. They might be a bit better - but not much and they're not good enough really.

Riise, Baros, Traore, Kewell, Biscan

These are all Houllier's players. Rafa had one player out there today who he has brought in. No wonder he is not getting the performances he should be getting out of them, as most of them will be on their way in the summer - if we can get rid of them.

staplar · « **Reply #55 on:** April 23, 2005, 11:38:05 pm »

Quote from: GingerRed on April 23, 2005, 09:49:10 pm

Yes mate, but this is a discussion board, and we can only offer our opinions. If we applied the 'Rafa knows best' rule, we'd be limited to moaning about the ticket office.

I know that, but I was referring to those who think that they know more about the squad than Rafa. In situations like these, we should complain about the players, not the manager.

Walshy nMe® · « **Reply #56 on:** April 23, 2005, 11:42:00 pm »

I have not read the whole thread, and this is not a knee jerk reaction, but I just can't believe we lost again today.

Palace. Ok, they might be a team battling for their lives, but so are we. We need the points as much as anyone, I just cannot see us winning our last 3. I feel 4th place has gone. Bottom line.

capt k · « **Reply #57 on:** April 24, 2005, 12:04:19 am »

I couldnt watch the game, but heard audio of it {Thanks LJ

} and although it sounded like we played dire
i think Rafa got it right...{for the most}

He would be absolutely hung drawn and quartered if he had played our full stregnth team today and not gave a fuck about the Cl Semi's..

he HAD to consider the Chelsea game while picking yesterdays team, we are in wiht a decent shout of getting thru to the final if we have a full strength team ..

League "our bread and butter".. well weve got no fucking chance of getting into the bakers shop this year
so lets eat lobster without bread eh

Gnurglan · « **Reply #58 on:** April 24, 2005, 12:35:48 am »

Rafa has to take a big part of the blame for the team and formation he played. It doesn't mean all his work is crap, but today he got it wrong.
We should have played Igor, not Welsh. At least when we played ALT in the hole. We should have put Cisse on (thought he looked good), not Potter when Baros went off. Traore is definitely no wing back. And I don't care if he's quick and can make a tackle. He's not good enough. I don't rate Riise on the ball and Traore is a level below him. Really hope Traore scores the winning goal for us in the CL Final, but it won't change my mind. His future is at another club.

Crazy-Horse · « **Reply #59 on:** April 24, 2005, 12:43:22 am »

Quote from: Gnurglan on April 24, 2005, 12:35:48 am

Rafa has to take a big part of the blame for the team and formation he played. It doesn't mean all his work is crap, but today he got it wrong.
We should have played Igor, not Welsh. At least when we played ALT in the hole. We should have put Cisse on (thought he looked good), not Potter when Baros went off. Traore is definitely no wing back. And I don't care if he's quick and can make a tackle. He's not good enough. I don't rate Riise on the ball and Traore is a level below him. Really hope Traore scores the winning goal for us in the CL Final, but it won't change my mind. His future is at another club.

It's so easy to sit here now and say Rafa should have done this and that, but if we had played the same way and won, nobody would care about the tactics and formation.

Gnurglan · « **Reply #60 on:** April 24, 2005, 12:49:39 am »

Quote from: Istanbul 2005 on April 24, 2005, 12:43:22 am

It's so easy to sit here now and say Rafa should have done this and that, but if we had played the same way and won, nobody would care about the tactics and formation.

Yes, it's easy. But even if we had won I wouldn't have supported the choice of 3-5-2. I just don't believe in it with the players we have.

thewing · « **Reply #61 on:** April 24, 2005, 10:34:53 am »

Folks,
Rafa isnt above critiscm, he gambled today with selection and tactics.He had one eye on Wed(IMO) which beggars belief as our best route back into Europe is through the league(the glorious way would be better obviously).

3-4-1-2 with Pellegrino on the left of the back 3 is a mistake

Welsh too light for a midfield of bruisers

Traore - Not a wing back in any way

Potter - should have been Cisse

I see on .tv that his missus says we'll win the CL this year, and that she was right all the other years when he won stuff,

I hope so, I hope so.

Hightown Phil · « **Reply #62 on:** April 24, 2005, 10:37:44 am »

Cisse wasn't fit enough to play for 55 minutes.

thewing · « **Reply #63 on:** April 24, 2005, 10:57:14 am »

That's debatable, he's been training hard for the last 3 weeks, and he's played in the last 3-4 matches, he could surely last 55 min now.He doesn't exactly look fat does he?

Hightown Phil · « **Reply #64 on:** April 24, 2005, 11:27:03 am »

No, but lets say he plays 55 minutes and Baros gets injured. We're then stuck without any strikers for Wednesday. As it was, Morientes and le Tallec were upfront.

thewing · « **Reply #65 on:** April 24, 2005, 11:37:04 am »

to be honest, think it's fair to say Rafa knows best on that front, as I'm only speculating.

capt k · « **Reply #66 on:** April 24, 2005, 11:42:46 am »

Quote from: Hightown Phalonso on April 24, 2005, 11:27:03 am

No, but lets say he plays 55 minutes and Baros gets injured. We're then stuck without any strikers for Wednesday. As it was, Morientes and le Tallec were upfront.

ermmmmm... baros did play

eXec-5 · « **Reply #67 on:** April 24, 2005, 11:51:02 am »

Quote from: Gnurglan on April 24, 2005, 12:35:48 am

Rafa has to take a big part of the blame for the team and formation he played. It doesn't mean all his work is crap, but today he got it wrong.
We should have played Igor, not Welsh. At least when we played ALT in the hole. We should have put Cisse on (thought he looked good), not Potter when Baros went off. Traore is definitely no wing back. And I don't care if he's quick and can make a tackle. He's not good enough. I don't rate Riise on the ball and Traore is a level below him. Really hope Traore scores the winning goal for us in the CL Final, but it won't change my mind. His future is at another club.

Traore is tailor-made for the 3-5-2 system, but in the back three, not in midfield. Watching the game yesterday you'd be forgiven for thinking our coaching staff was unaware of Routledge and Johnson. Their pace against Pelle and Hyypia was winceful to watch.

I think the wing-back position is Riise's best. He is neither a winger nor a left-back, has incredible stamina and gets crosses in. He is also able (occasionnally) to get past players, whereas Traore is not.

Yesterday, though, the real problem was in midfield. We totally let them dictate the tempo of the game; and that shouldn't be allowed to happen when their midfield dynamo is Aaron Hughes!

Hightown Phil · « **Reply #68 on:** April 24, 2005, 11:56:03 am »

Quote from: capt k on April 24, 2005, 11:42:46 am

ermmmmm... baros did play

I meant injured so he's out of Wednedsay's game. Sorry.

FiSh77 · « **Reply #69 on:** April 24, 2005, 12:07:53 pm »

i honestly can't see the point in moaning about the way things are going, this season was always going to be full of up's and down's and we're gonna have more over the next season or two so just get used to it

following the juve game there was a thread about how houllier had laid the foundations for our european run, as far as i was concerned that was utter bollocks, gh brought in a lot of players who simply aren't good enough and we're still seeing poor performances from them now

in an ideal world rafa whould have come in with 10 games or so left last season as to get a good idea of the players capabilities, football doesn't work like that though so instead he had a couple of months to get to know the players and assess the squad, he brought in 2 good players in alonso and garcia plus josemi to bolster the squad and also nunez (but we were hardly in a position to bargain in that deal) then once the transfer window closed he was stuck with the current squad

the injuries over the season haven't helped but they've exposed just how much we're lacking in quality backup players, rafa will now know much more than us who he wants to get rid of and what sort of transfer budget he'll have for the summer and who he wants to bring in

i wasn't happy with the starting lineup yesterday but it was going to be a physical game, they kicked lumps out of baros at anfield in november and again for 30 minutes or so yesterday which resulted in him limping off, the same could easily have happened to alonso and garcia then we would have been fucked for chelsea so i can understand why he chose that team, the fact is our squad should be good enough to beat the likes of palace no matter who plays

all those who are moaning need to chill out and take a long hard look at what has happened over the past 15 years, our league form has been erratic since souness took over (with 2001/02 being the exception) there's been plenty of performances as bad as yesterdays and i guess there will be more next season, the task rafa faces is massive and he's gonna need at least another season to mould the sqaud into what he wants, we just need to be patient and get behind him and not go making kneejerk reactions everytime there's a bad performance

thewing · « **Reply #70 on:** April 24, 2005, 01:44:10 pm »

Quote from: FiSh77 on April 24, 2005, 12:07:53 pm

the same could easily have happened to alonso and garcia then we would have been fucked for chelsea so i can understand why he chose that team

Big gamble innit?

Crazy-Horse · « **Reply #71 on:** April 24, 2005, 01:46:45 pm »

Quote from: thewing on April 24, 2005, 01:44:10 pm

Big gamble innit?

What is? Not playing two of your best players in a physical premiership match, against relegation fodder, so they don't get injured for a Champions League semi final? We just don't have the quality to come in for those players, and you have seen how much we've missed Alonso already. Not a gamble at all.

thewing · « **Reply #72 on:** April 24, 2005, 01:58:46 pm »

Well going by your username, you obviously reckon it's a piece of piss/written in the stars that we'll win the CL.

Fuck 4th, let's win the CL - it's easier to beat Milan and Chelsea(over 2 legs), than Palace, Boro, Arsenal(with nothing to play for) and Villa.

Crazy-Horse · « **Reply #73 on:** April 24, 2005, 02:02:37 pm »

Quote from: thewing on April 24, 2005, 01:58:46 pm

Well going by your username, you obviously reckon it's a piece of piss/written in the stars that we'll win the CL.

not at all. I just hope it is/we do.

thewing · « **Reply #74 on:** April 24, 2005, 02:04:54 pm »

Quote from: Istanbul 2005 on April 24, 2005, 02:02:37 pm

not at all. I just hope it is/we do.

Me too mate, me too

fudge · « **Reply #75 on:** April 24, 2005, 05:45:34 pm »

Quote from: Istanbul 2005 on April 24, 2005, 12:43:22 am

It's so easy to sit here now and say Rafa should have done this and that, but if we had played the same way and won, nobody would care about the tactics and formation.

to be fair most of the people that have been having a pop after the event are exactly the same ones who've argued against rotation for ages