Topic: Nevermind 20 Years On - Nirvana and all that jazz.

[Filler.]

I think this is essential viewing... a documentary on The Minutemen, 'We Jam Econo'. Essential viewing not just for Minutemen fans, but for that whole 80's US punk thing. Another one of those Godfathers.., in Mike Watt.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/BoA7iFqBOmQ?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/BoA7iFqBOmQ?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US</a>

all parts on there.

[astowell1]

Still a fantastic album that I'll never get bored of.  Haters are always gonna hate sadly but they can't hide the impact, success and quality of melody/songwriting on that album.

[The 5th Benitle]

Glad to see we're on the same page, I was just off to hunt for some Dinosaur Jr next...

Ah, Start Choppin' and Freak Scene are two of my favourite ever songs.

[Hazell]

I know you mentioned The Mats in your opening bit Filler, but I honestly think Westerberg was the godfather. Cobain said himself that Let it Be was the template, and Unsatisfied in particular.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/7BUeO5YGF2Q?" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/7BUeO5YGF2Q?</a>

I also think in terms of craft Westerberg was way ahead of 99 per cent of his peers. He's just written the title track for the new Glen Campbell CD and it's almost unbearably gorgeous. Back then, I didn't appreciate his 'craft', I wanted antipathy, and anger, and alienation -- all the 'a's'. A howl of rage. That's what adolescence is all about and the best of this stuff still embodies that bewilderment and anger - The Pixies in their prime, The Meat Puppets, Dinosaur Jr, early Mats. But Westerberg has gone on to transcend all this stuff, forge an interested and varied career. Fat Frank Black has, up to a point. Who else has? Lou Barlow, J Mascis, love them both, bless 'em, and Sebadoh and Dinosaur Jr hit some wonderful peaks, but it's hardly been startling. For me Westerberg opened the door. Just a shame he didn't close it after him.

Just getting into these at the moment. Can you recommend any albums? Heard a few songs off of 'Pleased to Meet Me' and I particularly love 'Alex Chilton' (though that's partly because it's about Alex Chilton/Big Star) and 'The Ledge'. Is 'Let It Be' a good place to start?

[Filler.]

There's a great quote from Mike Watt in that doc above about The Stooges and Captain Beefheart which is bang on the nail. 'They were already punk before punk was' ... I mean I can't remember the full quote but you get the gist. AND THAT"S JUST FUCKING IT! Right there! The essence of punk IS The Minutemen.

So Rob, where would you start with the Minutemen? Well I first heard their debut EP and I liked it. Then I heard First Way Tie For Last and I thought... oh... OK, so that's quite hippy isn't it in a punk way. And then I heard Double Nickels On The Dime, and I thought... Is this the best album that's ever been made? Been asking myself that question ever since. It's very very good.


Maybe we're veering off.

Anyone remember TAD?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/vfEPrJuamEE?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/vfEPrJuamEE?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US</a>

That was such a good album...

But have you seen the big man lately?... Awesome:


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/pkFuBKgaokI?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/pkFuBKgaokI?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US</a>

[Filler.]

Tad's Behemoth was probably the signature tune on that LP tho. 'Mother Fucker!'


A truly enjoyable gem from The Late Late Show's programme 'No Nirvana', which featured a collection of bands associated with er, guitars.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/YI-1t-PcaL8?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/YI-1t-PcaL8?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US</a>

that wee guitar solo... lovely. Telecaster of course. Always the Telecaster.

[Filler.]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/JYGoougMHSQ?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/JYGoougMHSQ?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US</a>

Had to. Pink Floyd like really.

[Filler.]

Royal Trux:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Lu92vj0D-qw?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/Lu92vj0D-qw?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US</a>

[Filler.]

The great Bill Callaghan (Smog)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/fBLk-e3-4lI?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/fBLk-e3-4lI?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US</a>

[Filler.]

One of my all time favourite bands... Thinking Fellers Union Local 282... some quarters in the media coined the phrase 'Feller Filler' to describe some of their noodles... hey *shrug*

All 1991 ish

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/jPSSagaJNSw?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/jPSSagaJNSw?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/vO1q82-ftAg?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/vO1q82-ftAg?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US</a>

[Cassiel]

Just getting into these at the moment. Can you recommend any albums? Heard a few songs off of 'Pleased to Meet Me' and I particularly love 'Alex Chilton' (though that's partly because it's about Alex Chilton/Big Star) and 'The Ledge'. Is 'Let It Be' a good place to start?

I'd start with Let it Be and Tim. The latter is their masterpiece imho. They'd grown out of their adolescent yearning phase into their, um, adult yearning on. Left of the Dial, Swinging Party, Here Comes Regular, Kiss Me on the Bus, many of their best songs are on it.

Pleased to Meet Me is fabulous, let down only by a couple of duffers but in Can't Hardly Wait and Skyway it has two all time classics. Don't Tell A Soul is personal favourite but some say it was somewhat spoilt by the slick FM radio production,, while All Shook Down is wonderful but really a Westerberg solo album.

So get them all really

[Filler.]

and a band that ended up as friends: John Peel played their debut LP in full...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/YzoDFcpRFWA?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/YzoDFcpRFWA?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US</a>

You can see why surely. 1991 again.

I'd forgot how fucking shit hot these lot were! That's was new footage for me. Gonna have to watch that again.

[Filler.]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/LCmSSN8aZ3s?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/LCmSSN8aZ3s?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US</a>

[Hazell]

I'd start with Let it Be and Tim. The latter is their masterpiece imho. They'd grown out of their adolescent yearning phase into their, um, adult yearning on. Left of the Dial, Swinging Party, Here Comes Regular, Kiss Me on the Bus, many of their best songs are on it.

Pleased to Meet Me is fabulous, let down only by a couple of duffers but in Can't Hardly Wait and Skyway it has two all time classics. Don't Tell A Soul is personal favourite but some say it was somewhat spoilt by the slick FM radio production,, while All Shook Down is wonderful but really a Westerberg solo album.

So get them all really

Thanks mate. Checking them out at the moment. Liking the songs so far. Didn't realise 'Answering Machine' was on 'Let it Be'. Brilliant!

[eitzel]

Good article on what 'other' music lovers were listening to back in 91

http://thequietus.com/articles/07056-a-new-nineties-an-introduction-part-one-main-feed-the-collapse

For me 91 will be inextricably linked to hearing American Music Club for the first time. Their album Everclear eclipsed eveything in that year and I sought out their other, in my mind at least, masterworks- Engine, California and United Kingdom. All these records still kill me to this day.

Funnily enough, I am reliably informed that Kurt and Courtney would put Everclear on to go to sleep to at night.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/cbLeP0cPeAg?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;rel=0&quot;&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;param name=&quot;allowFullScreen&quot; value=&quot;true&quot;&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;param name=&quot;allowscriptaccess&quot; value=&quot;always&quot;&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;embed src=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/v/cbLeP0cPeAg?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;rel=0&quot; type=&quot;application/x-shockwave-flash&quot; width=&quot;420&quot; height=&quot;315&quot; allowscriptaccess=&quot;always&quot; allowfullscreen=&quot;true&quot;&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/cbLeP0cPeAg?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;rel=0&quot;&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;param name=&quot;allowFullScreen&quot; value=&quot;true&quot;&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;param name=&quot;allowscriptaccess&quot; value=&quot;always&quot;&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;embed src=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/v/cbLeP0cPeAg?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;rel=0&quot; type=&quot;application/x-shockwave-flash&quot; width=&quot;420&quot; height=&quot;315&quot; allowscriptaccess=&quot;always&quot; allowfullscreen=&quot;true&quot;&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;</a>

[AFX]

Some good clips from 'The year punk broke'. Great documentary if you haven't seen it.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/drbRdYt-thM" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/drbRdYt-thM</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/qFjrvbxMUqY" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/qFjrvbxMUqY</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/EgxevKwvbaQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/EgxevKwvbaQ</a>

[mart356]

Just really getting into Nirvana, absolutely fantastic, wasnt even born when Nevermind came out. Gutted i missed the whole music scene of the early 90's, seems like my kind of thing. Have to say, even though Nevermind is an absolute classic and great album, i prefer In Utero myself. Still can't believe Kurt killed himself, seems so surreal when you think about it, biggest star in the world, had a baby daughter, a great band, could have done anything he wanted and he chooses the ultimate act of choice, suicide. Gutted becasue the music they made whilst he was alive was some of the best there has ever been and it would have been great to hear more.

[KERRYKOP]

BUMP

Because there is some great music in this thread, also some very knowledgeable people discussing it. Its what I term good quality RAWK.

[Mr Grieves]

Just really getting into Nirvana, absolutely fantastic, wasnt even born when Nevermind came out. Gutted i missed the whole music scene of the early 90's, seems like my kind of thing. Have to say, even though Nevermind is an absolute classic and great album, i prefer In Utero myself. Still can't believe Kurt killed himself, seems so surreal when you think about it, biggest star in the world, had a baby daughter, a great band, could have done anything he wanted and he chooses the ultimate act of choice, suicide. Gutted becasue the music they made whilst he was alive was some of the best there has ever been and it would have been great to hear more.

Im the opposite to you mate I was a student twat when it came out, no longer a student but stil a twat, according to mrs grieves.
Played that album to death at the time but when i have revisited it lately ive not enjoyed it, maybe its an age thing. What I still think is a truly superb album is the MTV unplugged album, in my opinion this is better that Nevermind - though I accept i might be in the minority . Either way a very important band if only for showing up GNR, Motley crew(?)  et al for the bandana wearing gimps they are (ok i admit gnr at least had some tunes)

[Col]

Anyone ever heard of these?

Jumpin Landmines:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG9FBTaJp10&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqgfq70ozcc&feature=relmfu

[Shite Name]

It's no Angel Dust

[Barneylfc∗]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-58327844

Nirvana sued by the baby from Nevermind's album cover

Spencer Elden, the man who was photographed as a baby on the album cover for Nirvana's Nevermind, is suing the band alleging sexual exploitation.

The cover depicts Elden as a four-month-old in a swimming pool, grasping for a dollar bill that's being dangled in front of him on a fishing line.

Now 30, Elden says his parents never signed a release authorising the use of his image on the album.

He also alleges the nude image constitutes child pornography.

"The images exposed Spencer's intimate body part and lasciviously displayed Spencer's genitals from the time he was an infant to the present day," legal papers filed in California claim.

Non-sexualised photos of infants are generally not considered child pornography under US law.

However, Elden's lawyer, Robert Y. Lewis, argues that the inclusion of the dollar bill (which was superimposed after the photograph was taken) makes the minor seem "like a sex worker".

The legal case also alleges that Nirvana had promised to cover Elden's genitals with a sticker, but the agreement was not upheld.
Elden alleges his "true identity and legal name are forever tied to the commercial sexual exploitation he experienced as a minor which has been distributed and sold worldwide from the time he was a baby to the present day".

He claims he "has suffered and will continue to suffer lifelong damages" as a result of the artwork, including "extreme and permanent emotional distress" as well as "interference with his normal development and educational progress" and "medical and psychological treatment".

He is asking for damages of at least $150,000 (£109,000) from each of the 15 defendants, who include surviving band members Dave Grohl and Krist Novoselic; the managers of Kurt Cobain's estate; Cobain's former wife Courtney Love; and photographer Kirk Weddle.

Representatives for Nirvana and their record labels have yet to respond to the claims.

Elden has recreated the album cover several times as a teenager and adult - always wearing swimming trunks - to mark Nevermind's 10th, 20th and 25th anniversaries.

However, he has sometimes expressed ambivalence about the photoshoot. In 2016, he told Time Magazine that he "got a little upset" about his notoriety as he grew older.

"I just woke up already being a part of this huge project," he said. "It's pretty difficult - you feel like you're famous for nothing.

"It's hard not to get upset when you hear how much money was involved," he continued. "[When] I go to a baseball game and think about it: 'Man, everybody at this baseball game has probably seen my little baby penis,' I feel like I got part of my human rights revoked."

In other interviews, he has been more upbeat about the image.

"It's always been a positive thing and opened doors for me," he told the Guardian six years ago. "I'm 23 now and an artist, and this story gave me an opportunity to work with Shepard Fairey for five years, which was an awesome experience. He is a huge music connoisseur: when he heard I was the Nirvana baby, he thought that was really cool."

In 2008, Spencer's father Rick recounted the photo shoot to US radio network NPR, saying he had been offered $200 to take part by Weddle, who was a family friend.

"We just had a big party at the pool, and no one had any idea what was going on!"

The family quickly forgot the photoshoot until, three months later, they saw the Nevermind album cover blown up on the wall of Tower Records in Los Angeles.

Two months after that, NPR's article said, "Geffen Records sent 1-year-old Spencer Elden a platinum album and a teddy bear".

The album, which included the hits Smells Like Teen Spirit, Come As You Are and Lithium, went on to sell 30 million copies around the world.

Odd that he's happy enough to promote it when it suits him. Smacks of being desperate for cash.

[ToneLa]

Why didn't they airbrush out the penis since the dollar is airbrushed in anyway. I've never been comfortable with it

[TepidT2O]

Why didn't they airbrush out the penis since the dollar is airbrushed in anyway. I've never been comfortable with it

Why not?

[rob1966]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-58327844

Odd that he's happy enough to promote it when it suits him. Smacks of being desperate for cash.

Recreated the pic when he was 17 and 25, has the word Nevermind tattooed across his upper chest, dines out on the fact he's the kid on the cover.

If he's got an issue, it should be with his parents, they allowed the pic to be taken and used.

[ToneLa]

Why not?

Don't feel this needs explaining. Afraid someone will say something horrible as well.

[Buck Pete]

Jesus Christ. What next.  Go around and tear down all the historic monuments that may arouse paedophiles. 

Right then, who wants to go and take a sledgehammer to the 400 year old "Manneken Pis" sculpture in central Brussels?

These types of scumbags are in the absolute minority and we shouldn't be giving them fucking airtime.

[El Lobo]

[BarryCrocker]

He doesn't have much of a case. He was obviously offered money as captured in the cover photo. 

[Filler.]

Words failed me when I first saw this news. The irony of that image.

This c*nt has dined out on it all his life and now wants his coin. Sexual exploitation? Are you fucking joking me?

[Craig Mac]

The irony that the album cover is a baby grabbing at money and here we are all these years later and he still acting like a baby trying to grab money.

[gray19lfc]

Didn’t looked too traumatised by it when he recreated the pose as a grown man

[Flaccido Dongingo]

I saw Nirvana in Belfast on this tour, was only 14, my dad brought me, such a shame I'd never get to see them again.

[KillieRed]

Unfortunately I can`t see the imbedded videos.

I saw Nirvana when i was a student. I`m going for October/November `91? It was at the Glasgow QMU, with support from Eugenius (Captain America) and Shonen Knife. I always liked the venue and saw loads of bands there. I`d had Bleach for a while and loved it; i used to buy albums just by their covers and what they suggested or without having heard any of the songs perhaps after reading music reviews. About 3 out of 5 of these worked out really well. So I was ready for Nevermind, and initially it was a bit disappointing, not quite as Hard Core as Bleach. But they great thing is that it opened up that kind of music for a wider audience to love or hate. Sometimes the hate was more enjoyable. The sound that night wasnt wonderful, but the atmosphere was great. My mate managed to get on stage with the band (for all of 1.3 seconds before being launched back into the crowd) by running along the balcony and jumping down via speaker stacks. It`s a small claim to fame, but the thing of legend when you`re 19 or 20. To be honest I prefer "In Utero" to "Nevermind".

[BarryCrocker]

Keen spirit: Australian cyclist uses GPS to recreate Nirvana’s Nevermind cover

Enthusiast marks album’s 30th anniversary with 150km ride around Adelaide using Strava to sketch naked baby



https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/sep/26/keen-spirit-australian-cyclist-uses-gps-to-recreate-nirvanas-nevermind-cover

[thejbs]

Kurt is 30 years dead today. Crazy how much time has passed. My 14 year old self is still devastated.

[Boston always unofficial]

I've been listening to the 6 music Kurt Cobain stuff today and i'll stand by my thoughts of the time late 80's -  early 90's that they were alright but nowt outstanding!