Topic: PL: Liverpool 1 v Aston Villa 1 Ramsey 27', Bobby 90'

[redk84]

welllll that was disappointing

Emotional game for sure and cannot fault the effort of any of the players....but the lack of composure was infuriating at times. Has been like that alot of times this season, I'd have thought an experienced team winning things gains that skill

But wasn't to be...and looks like it is Europa for us. Which I for one won't be turning my nose up at, it's a European competition of stature which Klopp hasn't won so let's go all in to win it...better in its old format but still.

Bobby came in getting that goal was perfect, boy am I gonna miss him. One of my favourite players as is Milly and they definitely improved us right to their very last game. Deserved to have a win in their final home game but they leave having given their all and won it all

The refereeing was as mentioned, pathetic. Small men with too big a say in this game and I don't see how it will improve. Alot of aspects of football in this country are a joke, this tops the list.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

I know, I know, I know

That's obviously how it will go down, but please let a man have a dream that a more sensible and just world is possible? At least until sometime in August? ..........PLEASE?

Sorry Stig.
I'm with you by the way. I dream of a simpler world were the laws are properly applied without fear or favour. Where what actually happens on the pitch is what is refereed. Not pundits agendas, or social media shitstorms, or any perceived need to get revenge or teach people lessons.

The refs are there to serve the game, but it feels like the other way around at the moment, which isn't good for anyone long term.

It's not all the refs fault by the way. There's teams and players that set out to cheat them. But the stupid bastards are too arrogant to acknowledge that the speed of the game plus the determination of some to cheat them means that reffing is virtually impossible without help. But when help arrives, they're too pig headed to make proper use of it.

Oh and mancs should ref manc teams or us.

[Ghost Town]

No no Andy, you'll get told by some on here, the referees are paragons of virtue and they are not corrupt, they do not have an agenda against Liverpool and the Manchester referees are so professional they put bias aside and referee each game fairly.

PMGLOL is a failed project. A broken concept from the outset it has become rddled with venery and self-satisfaction and a breeding ground for individual, if not collective, corruption.

It's an object lesson for how an officiating structure should NOT be organised. It needs dismantling totally, and publically marked as a failure so that any successor outfit will know what to avoid doing from the outset.

The very concept of refereeing needs to change. The idea of an inviolable man in the middle who can do no wrong has to be ditched. Refs should be trained to put fairness and objectivity first. To valorise that above all else, with their own version of the Hippocratic Oath that they stick to becuase it is right.

And thus to have the humility to accept that they can, and will, often be wrong and that being corrected is not an affront to their dignity. They should be actively seeking help from their assistants, includuding the video assistant to ensure that the correct decision is arrived at as often as possible, while also allowing the game to flow and not be held up every few minutes.

Most of all they need to be actively screened for biases and any kind of prima donna ideas of self-importance. It might even be a good thing for them to remain anonymous. So they don't become 'stars' in themselves and start performing rather than officiating.

Not holding my breath, like

[Chakan]

PMGLOL is a failed project. A broken concept from the outset it has become rddled with venery and self-satisfaction and a breeding ground for individual, if not collective, corruption.

It's an object lesson for how an officiating structure should NOT be organised. It needs dismantling totally, and publically marked as a failure so that any successor outfit will know what to avoid doing from the outset.

The very concept of refereeing needs to change. The idea of an inviolable man in the middle who can do no wrong has to be ditched. Refs should be trained to put fairness and objectivity first. To valorise that above all else, with their own version of the Hippocratic Oath that they stick to becuase it is right.

And thus to have the humility to accept that they can, and will, often be wrong and that being corrected is not an affront to their dignity. They should be actively seeking help from their assistants, includuding the video assistnat to ensure that the correct decision is arrived at as often as possible, while also allowing the game to flow and not be held up every few minutes.

Most of all they need to be actively screened for biases and any kind of prima donna ideas of self-importance. It might even be a good thing for them to remain anonymous. So they don't become 'stars' in themselves and start performing rather than officiating.

Not holding my breath, like

Absolutely. Well put.

Won't happen anytime soon.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

PMGLOL is a failed project. A broken concept from the outset it has become rddled with venery and self-satisfaction and a breeding ground for individual, if not collective, corruption.

It's an object lesson for how an officiating structure should NOT be organised. It needs dismantling totally, and publically marked as a failure so that any successor outfit will know what to avoid doing from the outset.

The very concept of refereeing needs to change. The idea of an inviolable man in the middle who can do no wrong has to be ditched. Refs should be trained to put fairness and objectivity first. To valorise that above all else, with their own version of the Hippocratic Oath that they stick to becuase it is right.

And thus to have the humility to accept that they can, and will, often be wrong and that being corrected is not an affront to their dignity. They should be actively seeking help from their assistants, includuding the video assistnat to ensure that the correct decision is arrived at as often as possible, while also allowing the game to flow and not be held up every few minutes.

Most of all they need to be actively screened for biases and any kind of prima donna ideas of self-importance. It might even be a good thing for them to remain anonymous. So they don't become 'stars' in themselves and start performing rather than officiating.

Not holding my breath, like

2 really important points here:

They need to accept that to get everything right without help is nigh on impossible and the objective needs to be making sure they arrive at the right decision without all this clear and obvious bollocks.

Also as you allude to they need a strigent conflict of interest policy. Any professional organisation would ensure that its staff aren't placed in situation where they could be accused of bias, but PGMOL don't seem to care.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

2 really important points here:

They need to accept that to get everything right without help is nigh on impossible and the objective needs to be making sure they arrive at the right decision without all this clear and obvious bollocks.

Also as you allude to they need a strigent conflict of interest policy. Any professional organisation would ensure that its staff aren't placed in situation where they could be accused of bias, but PGMOL don't seem to care.

I think they are worse than that. They can be seen to actively troll clubs and managers with their provactative selections

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

I think they are worse than that. They can be seen to actively troll clubs and managers with their provactative selections

I just can't believe we've arrived at a situation where Liverpool, a world famous club, with a global fanbase, that's played a huge part in the profile of the league, that is one of the top (genuine) earning clubs in the world, is somehow in a situation where it is almost powerless to do anything about the way PGMOL operate.

I wont repeat the exact sheet, but the work by Tomkins highlights the ridiculous statistical anomolies that exist and are backed up by the eye test. The imbalance of free kicks conceded when compared with possession, the unpunished timewasting, the lack of pens, the flagging of offsides when we attack vs letting play go when we defend. The treatment of Salah. The inexplicable decisions that go against us, when the opposite conclusions have been reached for similar incidents. It's every fucking week now, but it appears we can do nothing.

[Dr. Beaker]

I just can't believe we've arrived at a situation where Liverpool, a world famous club, with a global fanbase, that's played a huge part in the profile of the league, that is one of the top (genuine) earning clubs in the world, is somehow in a situation where it is almost powerless to do anything about the way PGMOL operate.

I wont repeat the exact sheet, but the work by Tomkins highlights the ridiculous statistical anomolies that exist and are backed up by the eye test. The imbalance of free kicks conceded when compared with possession, the unpunished timewasting, the lack of pens, the flagging of offsides when we attack vs letting play go when we defend. The treatment of Salah. The inexplicable decisions that go against us, when the opposite conclusions have been reached for similar incidents. It's every fucking week now, but it appears we can do nothing.

Don't forget blowing for time thirty seconds early(!) because Mane had a 1v1.

[SamLad]

a small start, maybe ....

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/65677560

Liverpool have asked Professional Game Match Officials Limited for an explanation on two decisions during Saturday's 1-1 draw with Aston Villa.

The Reds have queried why Villa defender Tyrone Mings was not sent off for a challenge on Cody Gakpo, and why the Dutch forward had a goal disallowed for offside.

Defeat would have ended Liverpool's hopes of reaching the Champions League.

Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp watched the game from the stands as he began his touchline ban for comments made about referee Paul Tierney after his side's 4-3 win over Tottenham in April.

The hosts improved after going behind and thought they had equalised when Gakpo converted in the 55th minute following a scramble, but the effort was ruled out by the video assistant referee (VAR) for offside in the build-up.

Liverpool forward Luis Diaz appeared to head the ball into Villa defender Ezri Konsa, before it rebounded to Virgil van Dijk, who kept it alive before Gakpo eventually prodded into the net.

The Premier League said Van Dijk was offside in the build-up.

"[Virgil] Van Dijk was in an offside position from Luis Diaz's header," the Premier League said.

"The VAR recommended a review, and referee John Brooks determined it was a deflection off Ezri Konsa, not a deliberate play."

Speaking after the game, Liverpool defender Van Dijk said he had "no idea" why the goal was ruled out.

"I didn't understand what was going on at all," said the Dutchman.

"I asked [fourth official] Michael Oliver on the side of the pitch, and apparently it was a question if the Villa player deliberately knocked it back or something, but I have no idea, yes or no.

"I think it would be good if next season we can hear what they [the officials] discuss, everyone around it, and be transparent."

The application of VAR technology has been questioned and criticised by managers, players and pundits throughout the Premier League season.

Last week, referees' chief Howard Webb said releasing audio of VAR decisions is a "small step forward" in providing clarity around incidents.

[StL-Dono]

It is hard not to when it happens so frequently, it's amazing how many soft free kicks rival teams get while our players get their shirts pulled, are barged off the ball and get nothing.

And this is bad for a couple of reasons.  One, it obviously breaks our rhythm and flow and makes the game just a series of brief interludes of set pieces (which I would say benefits the less skilled team), but secondly, it eventually makes us leery to actually defend.  To me, we defended well and aggressively for the first 15 minutes against AV, but after repeated soft free kicks given, we seemed to back off and apply less pressure.  That's surely not a coincidence that that was when they seemed to grow into the match, put some pressure on us, and actually scored their goal.  But I trace all that back to us being afraid to actually try to press and tackle for fear of more and more soft ones. 

I haven't seen the stats for this match, but I'd be very surprised if the numbers didn't reflect what always seems to happen with us: we have the ball for more of the match, and we're called for many more fouls.   

[TepidT2O]

It was good to see Bajcetic during the parade at at he end

[seenitall]

The real impact of the officials total incompetence can be seen after Newcastle’s result against Leicester last night. If Liiverpool had won on Saturday ( and yes I know we were poor but Gakpo’s goal should have stood!) we would now have a real chance of top four with Newcastle playing Chelsea away in their last game. The Ref could have cost Liverpool £70-80m in lost revenue! 

[ScottScott]

The real impact of the officials total incompetence can be seen after Newcastle’s result against Leicester last night. If Liiverpool had won on Saturday ( and yes I know we were poor but Gakpo’s goal should have stood!) we would now have a real chance of top four with Newcastle playing Chelsea away in their last game. The Ref could have cost Liverpool £70-80m in lost revenue!

Came in to say the same myself. Newcastle looked nervy yesterday and would have been even more so come Sunday if they needed a win. We should be right behind these but the refs have fucked us over

The pen on Hendo, the red for Mings, the Gakpo goal. 3 massive decisions, all given against us, all wrong. All by the same fella who Klopp went towards...