Topic: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)

[Hij]

Can't believe people are buying into this. Sarah Koenig has an awful lot to answer for.

What? Most of us in here, Ciara certainly, have also spent a lot of time listening to the Undisclosed podcast, which while biased in its nature has taken apart lots of the other evidence (at least of the states case) factually.

The person of most importance who has 'bought' into this, is the judge who has ordered based on the appeal submissions that a new trial be granted. I guess you could argue with some success that as the lady who discovered the evidence of the call logs only got involved because of the Serial podcast and Sarah Koenig that that is the reason it has got to this stage and maybe that's why Sarah has a lot to answer for. But regardless of how the evidence was discovered to submit for the most recent appeal, it seems a re-trial has been ordered legitimately at least.

For what it's worth, my position on Adnan's guilt is that I am still unsure, and like Sarah surmised in her last episode I believe - if not Adnan then who could it have been? That's not really how guilty and innocent works though and based on the evidence available to me, I'd likely vote to acquit.

If 'buying into' something is being totally suspicious of a case that's main tenants were the word of a someone who has changed their story massively several times and who to my mind is completely untrustworthy as well as a case that was based upon phone logs that should have been cross examined more effectively and on incoming phone logs for location that could have been thrown out - then I've bought into it yeah.

That's before you even get onto the other evidence that they haven't had a chance to submit at a criminal trial yet, such as the lividity evidence which takes aparts the states case even further. It's clear that whatever happened that day with Hae, the police probably got nowhere near solving it correctly even if Adnan did it some other way.

[HighSix]

People say this all the time but without being on the jury it is extremely difficult to know. All I will say is, nobody would ever be convicted without scientific evidence if the internet had its way. Reasonable doubt is seemingly taken to any doubt whatsoever.

Agree alot of biased shit is put out on the podcasts & programs around these public cases but the court would not have sanctioned the retrial just on that or the public demand. There will be reasons & new evidence to justify it.

[Hij]

People say this all the time but without being on the jury it is extremely difficult to know. All I will say is, nobody would ever be convicted without scientific evidence if the internet had its way. Reasonable doubt is seemingly taken to any doubt whatsoever.

I genuinely think he did it though, yes.

I've not seen everything the jury has, but let's be honest, there is a lot of information in the public domain and the case has been discussed widely for over a year now. I'm in 'Probably Guilty' or 'Likely Guilty' - according to the image though, I must acquit.

I hear you about scientific evidence, but it's not like there were people at Best Buy who are testifying they saw him do it or they saw him and Hae in the car together around the time she went missing? Or there is an independent witness that saw him and Jay in the car together leaving Leakin Park, or saw them with shovels in the park. Or evidence that he had marks on him from a fight that witnesses testify they saw on him in the days after. Or internet searches on "The fastest way to kill someone" or something etc. Yes, it's unrealistic to expect science to solve every case, but equally, as far as circumstantial cases go, it's really really weak.

Some jurors found Jays word of the burial in Leakin Park and the triangulation of an incoming call showing the phones there as what tipped the balance. With the new judges ruling you're now looking at a possible situation where if the trial does go ahead again, the defence may get a better run at the phone records and get a chance to introduce other evidence they couldn't at the time.

It's an unsafe conviction if ever I've seen one, he's just been granted a third trial by a judge (one was a mistrial admittedly) so it's clearly not been the most cut and dry case. But like I say, other than the other boyfriend, or some crazed killer who else can you think that may have done it?

For what it's worth I cannot see it going to another trial. We'll see obviously but I think it won't and that'll be indicative of how strong the circumstantial case is. 

[Redcap]

It's actually not that hard to know without being in the jury, is it? All the evidence provided to the jury are on court records. What's more, all the evidence presented to the jury doesn't necessarily represent all the evidence that's out there. That's kinda the point, isn't it? Asia McClean's testimony, for instance, was not heard by the jury.

I think he's probably guilty, but at the end of the day you're going off:

* A drug dealer whose account of the events have literally changed every time he's opened his mouth,
* Phone records, which have since then been discredited, and last but not least
* The fact that Adnan is Hae's ex-boyfriend and has a motive, and Jay does not

That shouldn't be enough to put someone away for life.

[Ciara (with a capital "C")]

Season 2 of Undisclosed is underway for anyone who listened to the first season.

It's a different case - the State vs Joey Watkins.

Two episodes and an addendum have aired.

I didn't bother with the second season of Serial, partly because I wasn't ready to think about another podcast that wasn't about Adnan, but now he has his retrial I have listened to S2 of Undisclosed. It's interesting so far, quite intense - especially the first episode. Jon Cryer from Two And A Half Men presents the Addendums now. He was a massive fan of S1/Serial.

[Ciara (with a capital "C")]

So today could possibly be the day the Judge rules Adnan is to have a new trial.

For those not keeping up with events, in June 2016 a Baltimore City Circuit Court judge vacated Syed’s conviction. The state then appealed the ruling and in June last year, the case was heard in the Maryland Court of Special Appeals. They are anticipating a ruling from the appeals court this week, possibly today.

[Ciara (with a capital "C")]

Adnan has won the appeal!

[Trendisnotdestiny]

People say this all the time but without being on the jury it is extremely difficult to know. All I will say is, nobody would ever be convicted without scientific evidence if the internet had its way. Reasonable doubt is seemingly taken to any doubt whatsoever.

I genuinely think he did it though, yes.

Rabia, the attorney assisting Adnan -- and the sister of Adnan's best friend would know if he were capable of this.  And if you have seen any Baltimore papers in the last two decades or even watched the Fiction(non) of the Wire, you would know that the Baltimore police are highly corrupt and indifferent.   

But by this point, it can be pretty useless trying to offer reasons why --- may never know, but our system of justice is predicated on innocence, a competent public defender, and system of collecting evidence that is not compromised.

Rabia is living hero for me --- fighting for years upon years to get a hearing like this. 

[Ciara (with a capital "C")]

Not sure how many people have followed this in recent years after the new trial granted, then denied and then their appeal denied but some news coming out from Team Adnan tonight:

https://twitter.com/rabiasquared/status/1501997582821822471?s=21

Essential they are submitting a motion to test for DNA on Hae’s clothing, which hasn’t been done, and he is now got the backing of the Innocence Project. Also a new lawyer has taken over - I had missed that Justin Brown was no longer involved.

[Brian Blessed]

Prosecutors have asked that the conviction be vacated.

They aren’t saying he’s innocent, but they don’t have faith in the conviction.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/bs-md-ci-cr-prosecutors-move-to-vacate-adnan-syed-sentence-20220914-uinmd6pa45cqbfj4fwyvac2tb4-story.html

[Jiminy Cricket]

Prosecutors have asked that the conviction be vacated.

They aren’t saying he’s innocent, but they don’t have faith in the conviction.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/bs-md-ci-cr-prosecutors-move-to-vacate-adnan-syed-sentence-20220914-uinmd6pa45cqbfj4fwyvac2tb4-story.html

The above link is geo-blocked. If you are located outside of the US, use this link instead:

https://archive.ph/p7L9n

[Mumm-Ra]

Prosecutors have asked that the conviction be vacated.

They aren’t saying he’s innocent, but they don’t have faith in the conviction.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/bs-md-ci-cr-prosecutors-move-to-vacate-adnan-syed-sentence-20220914-uinmd6pa45cqbfj4fwyvac2tb4-story.html

Wow, this is big. Is that HBO doc, the case against Adnan Syed, worth watching? I've had it on my list for ages now. I'm guessing it might be discredited now

[Hij]

Wow, this is big. Is that HBO doc, the case against Adnan Syed, worth watching? I've had it on my list for ages now. I'm guessing it might be discredited now

Think it leans more towards innocence. Honestly the whole thing is rather interesting to me.

[Mumm-Ra]

Think it leans more towards innocence. Honestly the whole thing is rather interesting to me.

Oh ok - from the title I had assumed it was a rebuttal to the podcast. Yeah very interesting case, and still probably the best podcast I ever listened to

[Ciara (with a capital "C")]

Had forgotten about this thread!

From the other thread (Serial):

Looks like this really is the one!!

Rabia had said several months ago that something was afoot but she couldn’t disclose what it was. Had assumed it was the DNA testing that was submitted and had hoped it would come back with a match to someone else. But it looks like it was the new evidence, of the two other suspects that was never handed over?

Sounds like a Brady violation so is that why they acted now?

The other suspect mentioned in the motion had attacked a woman unknown to him IN HER CAR and was later convicted of rape and assault (unsure if it’s the same victim).

You’d think without the presence of any new evidence that could convict Adnan, his team would be confident of winning a retrial based on the initial ‘evidence’. If they would even bring a new trial.

What are they trying to get ahead of? Is this because of money? A potential payout in future?

[Ciara (with a capital "C")]

His conviction has been overturned and Adnan is walking out of that courtroom TODAY!

New trial has been ordered and he is under house detention!

[kavah]

Holy cow. Is there a new episode? - I’ll report back if there is

[Jiminy Cricket]

For those interested, after the break (MSNBB), a report on Syed (I think - they did not name him):

https://livenewschat.eu/politics/

Edit: to add, they must have meant 'in the next hour' - the segment has not aired yet. So, if anyone is interested, it is has still to come up!

[Jiminy Cricket]

OK. It appears to be coming on after this break. So, in a minute or two.