Author Topic: Are our scouts doing a good job? (Read 11531 times)

suredross · « **Reply #40 on:** August 19, 2011, 06:54:17 pm »

Just reading an interview Cesc did for Barca TV and he mentions that Rodolfo is a fantastic person! Also, he was managing Cesc and Messi's year group in the academy back in 1987..seems if he continues much longer here, we will unearth some real gems.

rawKBottom · « **Reply #41 on:** August 19, 2011, 07:11:44 pm »

Quote from: suredross on August 19, 2011, 06:54:17 pm

Just reading an interview Cesc did for Barca TV and he mentions that Rodolfo is a fantastic person! Also, he was managing Cesc and Messi's year group in the academy back in 1987..seems if he continues much longer here, we will unearth some real gems.

good to know

Elmo! · « **Reply #42 on:** August 19, 2011, 10:03:34 pm »

Quote from: suredross on August 19, 2011, 06:54:17 pm

Just reading an interview Cesc did for Barca TV and he mentions that Rodolfo is a fantastic person! Also, he was managing Cesc and Messi's year group in the academy back in 1987..seems if he continues much longer here, we will unearth some real gems.

Fabregas and Messi were born in 1987, I know players are signed younger than ever these days but I'm sure even messi wasn't playing then

montysmum · « **Reply #43 on:** August 19, 2011, 10:38:12 pm »

Quote from: Original on June 27, 2011, 11:45:49 pm

Just wandering what peoples opinions are on the standard of scouting at the club. The standard of players coming in at the age of about 15/16/17 seems to be quite decent but obviously the results of these finds will not come to fruition for a few years yet. Whilst the players we are being linked with during this transfer window, who are required to come straight into the senior squad, seem to all be established players at their clubs, resulting in inflated fees. I look at some of the players we have been linked with and see that these are players that their respective clubs took a chance on, and are now reaping the benefits. Are our scouts unable to identify players from lesser leagues/clubs who have the ability to come in and do a job immediately?

Why is it a problem that we are now paying substantial sums for players?

For years we have had to either sell to buy or have had to look at cheaper 'quantity not quality' type of players. Now, thanks to the new owners we are able to look at what players are available and if they are deemed suitable, go and get them.

Selling clubs are going to try and get as much as they can and if we think their player is the one we want we have to either pay or look elsewhere.

Far from complaining that we are now paying top dollar, we should be bloody thankful that we are able to go and and have a realistic chance of getting the first choice players we need to make us a more successful club.

As for whether we have scouts that are able to identify talent, we already are seeing lads come through to the first team - Kelly, Flanagan, Spearing and Robinson have all made the grade and in time I am sure that others will follow.

wz4jc3 · « **Reply #44 on:** August 19, 2011, 10:41:12 pm »

Sorry to sit on the fence, but only time will tell! We need to give the lads. who have come in chance

suredross · « **Reply #45 on:** August 20, 2011, 01:08:23 am »

Quote from: elmo_swatloski on August 19, 2011, 10:03:34 pm

Fabregas and Messi were born in 1987, I know players are signed younger than ever these days but I'm sure even messi wasn't playing then

lool..my bad..it was around 2000/2001 (he says he was 13/14yrs old). thanks for pointing it out...

MolbyLovesGravlax · « **Reply #46 on:** August 20, 2011, 01:26:37 am »

Didn't we just appoint Caudio Caniggia's brother as a new South American scout? So it is obviously an area we are expanding our network in.

Zelnaga · « **Reply #47 on:** August 20, 2011, 03:19:47 am »

Quote from: telekon on June 28, 2011, 03:14:18 am

I think so too, and what about Flanagan, Robinson, and Kelly? We took a "chance" on them and it paid off.

We took a chance with them and theyre doing okay but they wont be replacing Johnson or Enrique just yet. Paid off? Not really. They'd have won silverware by now. I wouldn't called it paid off though ... more like getting there.

smurfinaus · « **Reply #48 on:** August 20, 2011, 09:27:21 am »

Scouting for youth talent seems to be improving (however when did the club actually bring in Robinson,Flanagan & Kelly?) - we have good young players in youth and reserves now.Time will tell. With the first team squad im not sure. We got Suarez,Downing,Adam, Henderson,Doni & Carroll but u could say most if not all were generally well known and well regarded .I think what im interested in seeing happen is how the scouts do in finding the hidden gems/up and coming players , not only outside the EPL but see if there is talent further down the leagues.

Stretch Armstrong · « **Reply #49 on:** August 20, 2011, 09:37:44 am »

I think there are atleast two may be three threads to this question

Are the scouts doing a good job?

When we sign decent young talent regardless of being local or foreign are they being developed at the academy or just becoming stagnant? Or does playing for Liverpool make them complacent?

Do the young players get a chance or feel they'll have a chance of breaking through in the the first team ie will the manager give them a chance?

Not answered your question but the complexity of this question could make up a dissertation. Each scout is different and the process of 'making it' is a matter of potential versus development versus attitude/adaptability

Gnurglan · « **Reply #50 on:** August 20, 2011, 09:58:23 am »

Quote from: montysmum on August 19, 2011, 10:38:12 pm

Why is it a problem that we are now paying substantial sums for players?

For years we have had to either sell to buy or have had to look at cheaper 'quantity not quality' type of players. Now, thanks to the new owners we are able to look at what players are available and if they are deemed suitable, go and get them.

It's a problem if we allow ourselves to waste money. With Adam and Enrique, I reckon we have done a good job all the way through. With Suarez too. The rest I am less sure of.

The good thing with having less money is you need to squeeze every last bit out of the deals you make. Forces you to look for bargains. If that mentality can be kept when there is more money around then great.

Back to our scouts. Would be nice if we could get to see another Sami or an Arbeloa, or a Babbel or Gary Mac type of signing. Really don't think we have searched the globe before we ended up with the current first team signings. Though at Academy level, that could well be the case.

reddd10 · « **Reply #51 on:** August 20, 2011, 10:32:59 am »

They found Suarez, whereas Spurs 'scouts' thought he wasn't good enough for the English league.

That's good enough for me.

ruairimacliam · « **Reply #52 on:** August 21, 2011, 12:25:12 am »

Not sure where to post this question, but its something that has been on my mind.

Do we scout players?

It was when i heard a discussion about Arsene Wenger's fear to spend a large ammount of money on someone who would flop. One of his biggest signings, Jose Antonio Reyes was scouted something in the region of 57 times before they felt they should lodge a bid.

And since with the ownership of FSG and running of the club with Ayre and Camolli i'm sure our transfer policy has changed. It has been widely rumoured that moneyball tactics is what we are using now. Where statistics are the name of the game.

So armed with these statistics, do you think we have/could sign a player without seeing him play?

Rotation · « **Reply #53 on:** August 21, 2011, 12:26:27 am »

Quote from: ruairimacliam on August 21, 2011, 12:25:12 am

So armed with these statistics, do you think we have/could sign a player without seeing him play?

Simple answer... no.

felix. · « **Reply #54 on:** August 21, 2011, 12:26:40 am »

TSC · « **Reply #55 on:** August 21, 2011, 12:28:55 am »

You would like to think we signed Degen for example without seeing him play, because there's no way anyone scouting the likes would've recommended a signing. At least you'd hope so. Think it's a bit more sophisticated these daya, and doubt whether we'd ever sign anyone again without watching him.

ruairimacliam · « **Reply #56 on:** August 21, 2011, 12:31:57 am »

But surely there is not enough hours in the day for Camolli to sit and watch players which we could use in all their league matches etc?

P.S. when i say scouting i mean scouting for first team transfers. not the scouting for players for the u18 teams. as im sure camolli doesnt watch them until they pla in a red shirt.

felix. · « **Reply #57 on:** August 21, 2011, 12:33:50 am »

comolli isn't a scout, we have people who's specific job is to scout players.

ruairimacliam · « **Reply #58 on:** August 21, 2011, 12:34:50 am »

Quote from: felix. on August 21, 2011, 12:33:50 am

comolli isn't a scout, we have people who's specific job is to scout players.

Does Camolli not pick players for transfers in/out, along with Dalglish.

I thought thats what he did at Arsenal and Tottenham?

-Willo- · « **Reply #59 on:** August 21, 2011, 12:38:39 am »

No, but lets hire Porto's scouts whilst we're on this subject.

felix. · « **Reply #60 on:** August 21, 2011, 12:39:35 am »

for us his role is director of football, whatever that may entitle. more than a scout in any case.

ruairimacliam · « **Reply #61 on:** August 21, 2011, 12:39:51 am »

Quote from: -Willo- on August 21, 2011, 12:38:39 am

No, but lets hire Porto's scouts whilst we're on this subject.

I was impressed with the Sporting Lisbons young lads the other night.

Maybe dip in there, since we have already nicked one of Barca's.

TSC · « **Reply #62 on:** August 21, 2011, 12:40:34 am »

Quote from: ruairimacliam on August 21, 2011, 12:34:50 am

Does Camolli not pick players for transfers in/out, along with Dalglish.

I thought thats what he did at Arsenal and Tottenham?

No, he handles negotiations after Dalglish has identified players

Prof · « **Reply #63 on:** August 21, 2011, 08:12:17 am »

Basically, there is a network of scouts working all around the world compiling data and reports on players they identify, or who they are specifically assigned. They will be comparing players to a specific model that they have for each position. E.g. a right back will need x, y and z to match the requirements of the first team. Comolli will then narrow down this database for each position with a priority list.

When the first team need a signing, Comolli will go through the database with Kenny. They will then choose who they want and Comolli will conduct the negotiations.

There is no way a first team player will be bought without significant research into their on and off field characteristics. If a situation arose where Kenny wanted a player not on Comolli's list, I imagine Comolli will then compile the relevant data and compare it with the other options with Kenny.

hesbighesred · « **Reply #64 on:** August 21, 2011, 11:41:49 am »

Quote from: TSC on August 21, 2011, 12:40:34 am

No, he handles negotiations after Dalglish has identified players

Chairman Tom Werner added: "Damien has already demonstrated a thorough understanding of what a modern football Club needs to succeed in an ever more competitive environment. He has made a tremendous contribution to our scouting, recruitment and player development so far. This promotion will see him assume extra responsibilities including overseeing areas such as performance analysis, medical provision, and team administration."

TomDcs · « **Reply #65 on:** August 21, 2011, 12:38:04 pm »

Quote from: hesbighesred on August 21, 2011, 11:41:49 am

Chairman Tom Werner added: "Damien has already demonstrated a thorough understanding of what a modern football Club needs to succeed in an ever more competitive environment. He has made a tremendous contribution to our scouting, recruitment and player development so far. This promotion will see him assume extra responsibilities including overseeing areas such as performance analysis, medical provision, and team administration."

We still have a network of scouts all over the place, he could't attend every game even if that was the best use of his time. I'd imagine he, and Kenny will only go and watch a player live if they've been scouted on by one of our own scouts and therefore was recommended to them beforehand.

hesbighesred · « **Reply #66 on:** August 21, 2011, 01:07:42 pm »

Quote from: TomDcs on August 21, 2011, 12:38:04 pm

We still have a network of scouts all over the place...

Of course we do. I was responding to the point that it's Kenny identifies the players and Comolli who goes and gets them - I think (and that quote would seem) like he has a much more active role than that. Indeed, that's partly the point of a DOF type figure, as I understand it - it means recruitment and strategy stays somewhat consistent whoever the manager is, thus avoiding the kind of fucking stupid disaster that happens when you get a dinosaur in like Roy to follow on from a cutting edge manager like Rafa was.

Stretch Armstrong · « **Reply #67 on:** August 21, 2011, 01:12:14 pm »

Obviously 57 times isn't enough

Mooki3 · « **Reply #68 on:** August 21, 2011, 01:19:07 pm »

The way a scouting system works is that there are a bunch of 'local' scouts, then a bunch of 'regional' scouts, then national scouts and then they are normally managed in chunks. They all report up the chain, and build a db of players, which they can either recommend to clubs or 'refer to' when a club says they need a specific type of player.

They identify a few players which the club will send a rep out to watch, this is where comoli comes in (usually). I say usually, as Damien has a few trusted guys he will send out to watch the players for him before he and / or kenny will discuss them.

In short, it's a complex web (I was wrong to call it a chain before) and not the fm style that many people assume clubs use (although some clubs do just have 'in house scouts and send them around to find players, it's much less comprehensive and certainly not the system Damien has I place with us).

MrGrumpy · « **Reply #69 on:** August 21, 2011, 01:24:50 pm »

Quote from: Rotation on August 21, 2011, 12:26:27 am

So armed with these statistics, do you think we have/could sign a player without seeing him play?

Didn't we do that with Vitor Flora?

thelinnen · « **Reply #70 on:** August 21, 2011, 02:19:38 pm »

Quote from: ruairimacliam on August 21, 2011, 12:39:51 am

I was impressed with the Sporting Lisbons young lads the other night.

Maybe dip in there, since we have already nicked one of Barca's.

Recently? Who

trenchtownrasta · « **Reply #71 on:** August 21, 2011, 03:27:56 pm »

Quote from: ruairimacliam on August 21, 2011, 12:25:12 am

So armed with these statistics, do you think we have/could sign a player without seeing him play?

Scouting is an art, stats are the science.

I'm not sure one can exist without the other, at least in in my perception of our transfer system.

Comolli, when asked what exactly his position will involve at liverpool he said: 'obviously working with the sports science team and the doctor, working with the video analysts, working with the academy, working with the scouts, that's the area I will cover' I really think that the areas excluding the academy are those which are referred to during any potential transfer and are of equal importance.

For a better angle on the depth to which players are scouted here is another quote in to response to his success in spotting and nurturing young players: "It's the scouts doing lots of work on the ground watching many, many games and finding that information about the player: good background, bad background, good family, not good family, good at school, not good at school etc."

In continuation, I really think the following quote answers you question superbly well, it is in answer to a question on the profile of transfer targets, and his answer seems to expand past profile and more into the persona of the player:
"I had a long conversation with Kenny Dalglish about that. I just wanted to know what it takes to be a Liverpool player. I said 'you have been a player here' and obviously he's been a fantastic manager, and I said 'what did you like when you were a player in the changing room to see in other players, what did you like when you were a manager, what's the tradition here, what does it need to be successful at Liverpool Football Club'? I was talking more from a personal character personality aspect of the players."

A few excellent and relevant responses in his first ever interview, credit to the lfc.tv for asking such concise questions.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/damien-comolli-first-interview

ruairimacliam · « **Reply #72 on:** August 21, 2011, 11:14:59 pm »

Quote from: thelinnen on August 21, 2011, 02:19:38 pm

Recently? Who

Rodolfo was a Barca scout no?

Trada · « **Reply #73 on:** August 24, 2011, 12:25:13 pm »

Not sure where to put this.

LFC Opens Academy in Delhi, India

hose who would have read my previous blogs, would have known how I would have felt about LFC’s ignorance to India. LFC have me a very pleasant ‘in your face’ a few days back when I came to know that they are planning to open an academy in India, that too in the city I live – Delhi.

I was fortunate enough to be present at the formal announcement a few hours ago; an event attended by Steve McMahon who would be the mentor of the academy, Ian Rush, as an ambassador of the LFC and LFC’s Head of Academies/ Soccer School – Steve Turner.

The academy in India would be called Steve McMahon Football Academy and Macca seemed full of enthusiasm. What’s more, in a one one one with him later, he admitted that he would be present for more than 10 days a month in India, going forward.

The Head Coach of the academy in India would be Paul Masefield, and ex-footballer and a TV pundit.

The academy aims to begin in October and we hope it is able to serve my ultimate goal of having one Indian play for Liverpool Football Club sometime in near future.

http://www.empireofthekop.com/anfield/?p=35348&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

shravan.satya · « **Reply #74 on:** August 24, 2011, 12:33:28 pm »

Paul Masefield is a tool. I can't say how happy I am...this is fantastic. Finally!!!!

TomDcs · « **Reply #75 on:** August 24, 2011, 01:02:18 pm »

If we get Coates for the money being quoted then yes our scouts are doing a good job on the face of it!