Topic: The 'Negative Twats Annoy Me' thread

[mooks]

I posted that if we were to fail I'd prefer to fail while playing attacking football, not playing out draws.  Most would agree I'd guess, though I could be wrong.

You're wrong.

I suggest you read the title of this thread again.

[TSC]

You're wrong.

I suggest you read the title of this thread again.

sorry read the title and give up.  Where am I wrong?  I'm not going to repeat what I said again.  What have I posted that's 'wrong' (in your view)?

[mooks]

sorry read the title and give up.  Where am I wrong?  I'm not going to repeat what I said again.  What have I posted that's 'wrong' (in your view)?

The stats just posted show that we actually "attack" more than United - we just lack quality in the final third.

But the majority of us knew that anyway even before the stats were posted.

And why were you so harsh on 4pool?  What he said in the post is accurate regardless of his (unrelated) views on the owners.

[lfc_bhoy]

sorry read the title and give up.  Where am I wrong?  I'm not going to repeat what I said again.  What have I posted that's 'wrong' (in your view)?

You haven't posted anything wrong but rather inanely simple.  I would love to be Barcelona, or further more 1980's Liverpool but we're not.  It takes years to get where Barcelona are, they themselves just got there this year.  We however don't have the money to go out and buy loads of flair players and we don't have the time to bed them in all at once.  Rafa has been purchasing quality incrementally and has created a team that can break down the teams, as of late however we haven't been able to convert those chances.  We are however in a position purchase one or two players who have the ability to change that and turn our dominance into wins.  Until then spreading the mentality that we are dull, uncreative, and boring is damaging, and wholly false.


Liverpool    Shots: 397  On Target: 147  Accuracy: 37%

Man Utd     Shots: 359  On Target: 170  Accuracy: 47%

We can create shooting opportunities we just need to score far more of them.

[soberphobia]

We're only 3 goals off the pace though.. where as we've conceeded 8 more...

It's a very simplistic way of looking at things. We've dropped points not just because of our inability to break some sides down, but also through some poor defending.

We need that little bit of improvement in all area's of the pitch. I do think we already have the right players who can improve our defensive performance though, were as we do need to bring in at least 2 players who can offer more going forwards. The difficulty lies in getting the right players who don't upset the opposite aspect of the game, i.e bringing in a forward who doesn't adhere to our hard working style of play... a Berbatov for example.

Sometimes things are simple and red herrings like we have hit the post 417 times or we shoot at the goals more but hit them less are just things people straining at the gnat and swallowing the camel fail to see. Fact is since Benitez got here our defense has been very sound this year has been a bit of an abberation really and i fully expect that it will be tightened in the summer. We have consistently scored less goals in a season than the teams above us rarely have we conceded significantly more. I think we are on the right track and all good managers or coaches in any code of football will tighten a defense first as it provides a solid platform of consistency. Liverpool need a decent right winger and a creative second striker. Or if gerrard is to play the second striker role we need a midfielder who can get about a bit and provide some creativity to get through the park the bus teams. Mascherano is a s good a defensive midfielder as there is but Alonso doesnt provide enough of a goal threat if he is to be the creative force in the team.

[josemisuncle]

Sometimes things are simple and red herrings like we have hit the post 417 times or we shoot at the goals more but hit them less are just things people straining at the gnat and swallowing the camel fail to see. Fact is since Benítez got here our defense has been very sound this year has been a bit of an abberation really and i fully expect that it will be tightened in the summer. We have consistently scored less goals in a season than the teams above us rarely have we conceded significantly more. I think we are on the right track and all good managers or coaches in any code of football will tighten a defense first as it provides a solid platform of consistency. Liverpool need a decent right winger and a creative second striker. Or if gerrard is to play the second striker role we need a midfielder who can get about a bit and provide some creativity to get through the park the bus teams. Mascherano is a s good a defensive midfielder as there is but Alonso doesnt provide enough of a goal threat if he is to be the creative force in the team.

You are almost implying that not swapping Barry for Alonso was a mistake

[lfc_bhoy]

You are almost implying that not swapping Barry for Alonso was a mistake

It was.

[TSC]

The stats just posted show that we actually "attack" more than United - we just lack quality in the final third.

But the majority of us knew that anyway even before the stats were posted.

And why were you so harsh on 4pool?  What he said in the post is accurate regardless of his (unrelated) views on the owners.

You haven't posted anything wrong but rather inanely simple.  I would love to be Barcelona, or further more 1980's Liverpool but we're not.  It takes years to get where Barcelona are, they themselves just got there this year.  We however don't have the money to go out and buy loads of flair players and we don't have the time to bed them in all at once.  Rafa has been purchasing quality incrementally and has created a team that can break down the teams, as of late however we haven't been able to convert those chances.  We are however in a position purchase one or two players who have the ability to change that and turn our dominance into wins.  Until then spreading the mentality that we are dull, uncreative, and boring is damaging, and wholly false.


Liverpool    Shots: 397  On Target: 147  Accuracy: 37%

Man Utd     Shots: 359  On Target: 170  Accuracy: 47%

We can create shooting opportunities we just need to score far more of them.

Well I'll concede to your collective stats.  Can't be bothered anymore.  I know what I'm watching week in week out and am not interested in how many shots we have, corners/throw ins we get, etc, etc, yawn.  More interested in wins and points on the board.  Not suggesting we're anywhere near the 80's teams.  But am of the view that we've thrown it away this season due to a combination of factors which I can't be assed getting into now.

By the way mooks 4pool insinuated that I felt the players were deliberately trying to draw games which is garbage.  Why don't you go back and read my post and his response.

[tomtom]

Sometimes things are simple and red herrings like we have hit the post 417 times or we shoot at the goals more but hit them less are just things people straining at the gnat and swallowing the camel fail to see. Fact is since Benítez got here our defense has been very sound this year has been a bit of an abberation really and i fully expect that it will be tightened in the summer. We have consistently scored less goals in a season than the teams above us rarely have we conceded significantly more. I think we are on the right track and all good managers or coaches in any code of football will tighten a defense first as it provides a solid platform of consistency. Liverpool need a decent right winger and a creative second striker. Or if gerrard is to play the second striker role we need a midfielder who can get about a bit and provide some creativity to get through the park the bus teams. Mascherano is a s good a defensive midfielder as there is but Alonso doesnt provide enough of a goal threat if he is to be the creative force in the team.

That's true and I'm aware our defense has been solid under Rafa, but this season by my reckoning poor defending has cost us a fair few points... getting close to 10. I know we can't expect to be completely water tight but we've drawn or lost games this season which we have dominated and scored the goal/s, but have lost out on points due to poor defending. United on the other hand have been rock solid ever since they let 3 in against Hull.

I agree we already have the right players to rectify this, I was just pointing out the fact that this season, so far, the reason we are behind United is not solely down to a lack of cutting edge, if we're going to win the league we need to regain the solidity at the back and as you said add something going forwards.

[James B]

It was.

You're joking aren't you?

[timiano]

Now you see, I don't mind the negativity. But, only providing that it is well reasoned. Can't stand the shite that comes out of a lot of whoppers on here. By that same chain of thought though, the unreasoned optimism is just as annoying too - but there's less of that about.

Just keep it fucking real.

[A.T]

By that same chain of thought though, the unreasoned optimism is just as annoying too - but there's less of that about.

There is more of it actually. Just read some of Andy @ Allerton's posts.

[paranoidmike]

You haven't posted anything wrong but rather inanely simple.  I would love to be Barcelona, or further more 1980's Liverpool but we're not.  It takes years to get where Barcelona are, they themselves just got there this year.  We however don't have the money to go out and buy loads of flair players and we don't have the time to bed them in all at once.  Rafa has been purchasing quality incrementally and has created a team that can break down the teams, as of late however we haven't been able to convert those chances.  We are however in a position purchase one or two players who have the ability to change that and turn our dominance into wins.  Until then spreading the mentality that we are dull, uncreative, and boring is damaging, and wholly false.


Liverpool    Shots: 397  On Target: 147  Accuracy: 37%

Man Utd     Shots: 359  On Target: 170  Accuracy: 47%

We can create shooting opportunities we just need to score far more of them.

I honestly do feel that if we have more players in the box then a lot of them missed chances would have turned to goals. How many times have you seen Utd have shots that are going ten yards wide only to land at a players feet in the box. Yesterday Rooney's header going nowhere some how it lands on Tevez's head GOAL! AND THAT'S THE PRIZE FOR HAVING MEN IN THE BOX. Too many times we attack with only one man in the box.

[timiano]

There is actually more of it actually. Just read some of Andy @ Allerton's posts.

I usually have to don a pair of UV 500s when reading Paul Tomkins stuff

Just kidding. At least it's well reasoned cup half full articles.

[4pool]

Well I'll concede to your collective stats.  Can't be bothered anymore.  I know what I'm watching week in week out and am not interested in how many shots we have, corners/throw ins we get, etc, etc, yawn.  More interested in wins and points on the board.  Not suggesting we're anywhere near the 80's teams.  But am of the view that we've thrown it away this season due to a combination of factors which I can't be assed getting into now.

By the way mooks 4pool insinuated that I felt the players were deliberately trying to draw games which is garbage.  Why don't you go back and read my post and his response.

I did read all your responces and the point still stands.

You basically insinuated that Rafa and the players deliberately sit back and do not "go for it". You claim because we have so many draws this is due to tactics of Rafa and the execution by the players. To you, the only time we "go for it" is when we're behind and chasing the game. We don't "go for it", otherwise known as attack enough.

Have I got that wrong?

And I replied, go tell the Rafa and players that.

I don't care what match you want to complain about. I will 1000% guarantee that the 11 Rafa put out on the day were strong enough to beat whomever we played. That not one of the 11 stood there at kick off and said to themselves, we're playing for a draw or not to win. What happens in the next 90 minutes is determined by the efforts of two sets of 11 players. And shit happens every now and then.



As for your ability to go to most matches. Congratulations. I only get to see a few every year. But they do have this thing called television. And whilst not the same as being there  for the excitment level and especially ability to sing with the Kop, it does get you close enough to the action to be able to determine just how much the team attacks. It shows the shots, the blocked ones, the wide ones,  it shows the players over passing in the box during an attack, etc. So we are able to keep track of these things and commment on them with authority.

[A.T]

You basically insinuated that Rafa and the players deliberately sit back and do not "go for it". You claim because we have so many draws this is due to tactics of Rafa and the execution by the players. To you, the only time we "go for it" is when we're behind and chasing the game. We don't "go for it", otherwise known as attack enough.

Have I got that wrong?

Seems you've been around for quite a while, watch the Liverpool team of 1986 play a match, then watch the current Liverpool team play a match and it might give you some perspective of the difference in tactics.

[Darren G]

You haven't posted anything wrong but rather inanely simple.  I would love to be Barcelona, or further more 1980's Liverpool but we're not.  It takes years to get where Barcelona are, they themselves just got there this year.  We however don't have the money to go out and buy loads of flair players and we don't have the time to bed them in all at once.  Rafa has been purchasing quality incrementally and has created a team that can break down the teams, as of late however we haven't been able to convert those chances.  We are however in a position purchase one or two players who have the ability to change that and turn our dominance into wins.  Until then spreading the mentality that we are dull, uncreative, and boring is damaging, and wholly false.


Liverpool    Shots: 397  On Target: 147  Accuracy: 37%

Man Utd     Shots: 359  On Target: 170  Accuracy: 47%

We can create shooting opportunities we just need to score far more of them.

 Yep,  and we also had more shots on goal than any other side in the league under Ged for a couple of seasons, so by that rationale it would follow that we must have also been playing attacking football under him.  We were clearly not doing so then either.  For the record, I am by no means in the 'Rafa out' camp, but neither am I of the mind that any criticism of our football or of Rafa should be shot down and sneered upon, which is what happens all to often from the superfan brigade on here at times.  I am not refering to your post in saying that I should point out.

[timiano]

Seems you've been around for quite a while, watch the Liverpool team of 1986 play a match, then watch the current Liverpool team play a match and it might give you some perspective of the difference in tactics.

It would. But then that would assume that opposing team's tactics were the same. Strategy and tactics is a two way street - surely you must know that.

The intensity of the game, especially defending and organisation, way surpasses anything back then. With the financial capability of LFC, Rafa plays a disciplined game and aims to control not just the scoreline. It's not done him too badly, and we're much better for it.

[hesbighesred]

It is Rafa, he sets the team up to sit back and counter attack. He plays a 'hard to beat system', but when we're losing we change to a much more atttacking style of football that I believe we should be playing for every match, not just because we're chasing the game.

No he doesn't.

This has become a real buzz word of a sudden and the people who say it need to go and watch us play again...only properly this time.

We haven't been a counter attacking side (consistently) since 05-06.

Sides set up to be solid and score on the counter do not post possession stats of 60/40 in the vast majority of their games...they do not tend to out pass their opponents and they do not get accused of 'slow build up play' as we are pretty much constantly.

The big clubs we've beaten...we have beaten through out-playing them and (for once) taking our (more) chances better than they did. The only times I can remember us seriously playing on the break this season was in the first halves against Real, Chelsea and Arsenal, and even then it was only for the first 20 - 30 mins, enough time to take the sting out of the game.

I would agree with those who say we don't have a great deal of pace in the side...I don't personally think it's essential but it surely would be if we actually did play on the break as our main tactic. In fact, not having Torres and Gerrard play together much this season means that our one major weakness this season compared to last is probably breaking at pace.

[hesbighesred]

Of course, but when Man Utd have other key players injured, they can replace those players with subs who are just as good. They have much greater strength in depth than us. They go for the kill early on though, the way Liverpool start games at Anfield tends to be slow and controlled, only when we go a goal down do we start to play the exciting attacking football that Manchester United tend to play. We are clearly capable of it and I've said it so many times, I'd love Rafa to be more adventurous in his tactics.

The 'exciting attacking football' that I've watched Utd play this season is remarkably similar to how we play...with slightly less emphasis on patience and team play and slightly more on 'give it to Ronaldo or Rooney'. Their 'exciting attacking football' is a myth that, if you've watched them play in even a handful of games this season, I'm astounded has held.

For 'exciting attacking football' read 'exciting attacking footballers' which is true...they have more of those than we do, but since the amount of 'excitement and attacking football' you are likely to get from a player is by far the most expensive thing to buy it's hardly surprising that Man Utd have more when you look at how much they have spent on so many of their attackers compared to what we have on ours, then consider that unlike Ferguson Rafa hasn't had the board giving him freedom to pick targets and move as swiftly as he'd like and his rivals do (which is basically removing the one advantage we might be able to have over Chelsea/Utd/Arsenal and now City when it comes to transfers) then consider the ones we know we missed because the board refused to sanction a few million over the budget (Alves, Simao etc).

[shanklyboy]

Did Shankly not say that football was a simple game? You have to win them sort of games if you wanna be sucessful in this league. It is too many games to be drawing, at home especially. I didn't say we have to win them all but half at least. We should be beating teams like that simplistic yes, shortsighted definetely not.

Yes he did.
He also lost and drew many games to teams 'We should be beating'.

Though I fail to see how his analogy has any bearing on us beating these teams.

[shanklyboy]

The 'exciting attacking football' that I've watched Utd play this season is remarkably similar to how we play...with slightly less emphasis on patience and team play and slightly more on 'give it to Ronaldo or Rooney'. Their 'exciting attacking football' is a myth that, if you've watched them play in even a handful of games this season, I'm astounded has held.

For 'exciting attacking football' read 'exciting attacking footballers' which is true...they have more of those than we do, but since the amount of 'excitement and attacking football' you are likely to get from a player is by far the most expensive thing to buy it's hardly surprising that Man Utd have more when you look at how much they have spent on so many of their attackers compared to what we have on ours, then consider that unlike Ferguson Rafa hasn't had the board giving him freedom to pick targets and move as swiftly as he'd like and his rivals do (which is basically removing the one advantage we might be able to have over Chelsea/Utd/Arsenal and now City when it comes to transfers) then consider the ones we know we missed because the board refused to sanction a few million over the budget (Alves, Simao etc).

That's an excellent summary on something that has been apparent for some time.
I wonder if you are now officially a 'Superfan'?

I'm asking that, as it seems if you don't subscribe to the tired old, well worn cliches regarding the myriad of shortcomings our team apparently has compared to Man Utd/Chelsea/Arsenal ( delete as appropriate whoever is doing better than us at any given point in the season) then 'Superfan' is usually the chosen label of attachment.Given of course by far too many, to far too many, on here in recent years.

Although I despise these cliches when they are constantly dragged out by those in the media who would also have us believe that the Premier League is the best in the world.
I would have expected it from them.
I would also expect our own fans to be able to see through the myth rather than use it as a stick to beat us with.

[4pool]

As we are talking about "exciting" football...League only.

Manchester United have scored 3 or more goals in 6 matches this season.

Liverpool have scored 3 or more goals in 7 matches this season.


Imagine that..

[mooks]

Yep,  and we also had more shots on goal than any other side in the league under Ged for a couple of seasons, so by that rationale it would follow that we must have also been playing attacking football under him.  We were clearly not doing so then either. 

And which seasons were those?

[heatseeker]

Teams we're beating are doing better than us and teams we're losing to will always be shit.

I won't ever stop believing in The Mighty Reds 'cause at this moment in time that's what we are, the fucking best.

That's football guys.

[macca888]

As we are talking about "exciting" football...League only.

Manchester United have scored 3 or more goals in 6 matches this season.

Liverpool have scored 3 or more goals in 7 9 matches this season

Imagine that..

Including 4 against those Manc twats!  How fucking attacking were they while we were twatting them off the park?   

[Ultimate Bromance]

Travelling kop's just done the Rafa chant and he's put up his hand to acknowledge the fans

 

[Paul JH]

Travelling kop's just done the Rafa chant and he's put up his hand to acknowledge the fans

 

You're in the wrong thread...

[Ultimate Bromance]

You're in the wrong thread...

haha, what the fuck, how'd i get in here?

[Paul JH]

haha, what the fuck, how'd i get in here?

[Captain Wolf Biscuit]

'Tis a cracking bump though to be fair.

[The G in Gerrard]

Yeah, but......

Seriously, I agree with the general sentiment but it just re-enforces how lightweight we are up front without Torres. There aren't enough goals in the rest of the team to overcome that loss.

Yeh but dare anyone suggest that perhaps someone like Villa (unlikely as it maybe) be signed and what seems like the majority get in uproar over it that would be break up Gerrard / Torres partnership... rather than us having any other kind of plan B or even C option

[Paul JH]

Yeh but dare anyone suggest that perhaps someone like Villa (unlikely as it maybe) be signed and what seems like the majority get in uproar over it that would be break up Gerrard / Torres partnership... rather than us having any other kind of plan B or even C option

So we SHOULD break up a great partnership that works, sign a £30m pound player, on the off chance one of Gerrard or Torres gets injured? OR, sign the £30m player, keep him on the bench so we can carry on with the Torres and Gerrard partnership that works 100%, just so we have a plan B?

[The G in Gerrard]

So we SHOULD break up a great partnership that works, sign a £30m pound player, on the off chance one of Gerrard or Torres gets injured? OR, sign the £30m player, keep him on the bench so we can carry on with the Torres and Gerrard partnership that works 100%, just so we have a plan B?

IF one of the best players in their position be it Villa, Eto'o or whoever wanted to come to Anfield... we would turn them down? Would it not be up to Rafa to sort out systems etc that would allow such players to play together? OR do we hope Gerrard nor Torres get injured because the likes of N'gog or Voronin (either of whom I have no problem with) will have to play and they aren't up to it and then we use the reason, that its not a fair playing field when the likes of the Mancs have the opportunity of bringing on said £30 million players such as Berbatov and in the past Tevez etc etc. Just doesn't make sense to me....

Don't get me wrong obviously the 4-2-3-1 formation is bloody good but fuck me I don't get the unnecessary bitching n moaning sometimes