Topic: Fan's Buy-out

[redmen77]

For a short answer, right now the club is to 100% in the hand of OOC'ers. Even if they sell, to DIC or whomever, this is unlikely to change. With ShareLFC, at least a part of the owners would be local.

Apart from that, I think people here over-estimate the amount of power the 'member-owners' would have. The club will be run by a professional executive board, and the influence of the owners will likely be limited to the participation in an annual meeting, the acceptance of last-years financial figures, and the election of a few key board members.

Most of these decisions will concern more the general running of the club, and presumably opinions opinions will be divided between all members, not only between Scousers and OOTers. The other thing to keep in mind is that OOT/OOCers are not a homogeneous group - Chinese and American fans may have vastly different opinions, for example.

One way to enhance the influence of "local" members would be to demand physical attendance of all members that want to take part in voting for board members etc, which would've course be easier to do for locals.

Isn't this just creating a division. What is the hang up of people that to support LFC you must have been born within sight of Anfield? Surely the reason we are and want to maintain our position as a world renowned club is the spread of support across the globe?

To try to set rules on voting by having to physically turn up is breaking the law. Anyone that owns a share has an equal right to vote either by post or by proxy.

[Armin]

One way to enhance the influence of "local" members would be to demand physical attendance of all members that want to take part in voting for board members etc, which would've course be easier to do for locals.

Be clear, aside from questions of fairness and equality the only way that it could possibly work is if every supporter world wide could participate equally, it's the only way sufficient monies could be raised. The moment you tried to put in artificial barrier to non Liverpool based supporters you'd irrevocably destroy any chance of success.

[oojason]

Seems the ShareLiverpoolFC website has had a bit of a makeover - with more details and asking people to re-register

http://shareliverpoolfc.com/index.php/home


the £500 part-paid share looks interesting...

[Jambo Power]

When I first started goin the match in the mid 80's we had to que for hours on end, on a matchday to get a £5 Kop ticket. Never bothered to pre book a ticket just turmn up at the crack of dawn to que for one, the que's often went all around Anfield.



Can I just clarify, my initial post referred to Voting and Administration issues, should Share LFC come to own Liverpool but with OOT's in majority ownership rather than scousers. I was'nt on about ticketing.

It was never a fiver on the door for a seven year old.

[fudge]

Seems the ShareLiverpoolFC website has had a bit of a makeover - with more details and asking people to re-register

http://shareliverpoolfc.com/index.php/home


the £500 part-paid share looks interesting...

They really are risking fucking this whole thing up.  How fucking incompetent is this:

IMPORTANT NOTICE
THIS IS THE NEW SHARELIVERPOOLFC WEBSITE.
IF YOU REGISTERED YOUR INTEREST ON THE OLD WEBSITE,
PLEASE RE-REGISTER ON THIS SITE (ONCE ONLY!).


I'm a massive supporter of this style of project but its going to lose all momentum and credibility with basic fuck ups like that

[fudge]

Thanks for registering your interest. We need all the help we can get to deliver fan ownership and empowerment at Liverpool FC. We’ll keep you in touch with ShareLiverpoolFC news by email. If you become a member of ShareLiverpoolFC – as an individual or group – you will play a direct role in delivering fan ownership and empowerment at Liverpool FC. In the meantime, you do not need to do anything further for the time being – as and when we’re in a position to offer shares in the Society we will notify you, which is likely to be when we are in a position to buy shares in Liverpool Football Club. Such notification will set out the terms on which membership (and the shares) is (are) offered and the rights and restrictions that will attach to the shares in the Society. It is possible that the shares will be offered on a “part-paid basis” with an initial call for a sum in the region of £500, which would be non-refundable. Once you accept the offer and pay the initial call, you (or your group) would then be a member of the Society, with an obligation to pay the remainder of the £5,000 if and when the Society needs it. If you can’t, or don’t want to pay the full amount at that point then you would cease to be a member.

[Life]

Very shabby.
Re-registering?  They really should explain the reasons why as a minimum, because what little credibility it had is slipping fast.  Having a few celebs say "it's a great idea" is a long, long, long way from being in a position to buy the club.
It's a great idea, but it was always doomed to failure...not because of apathy, just because of the sums involved.  £175m in January 07 might have been do-able (but probably not), the sums talked about now though are impossible.

[NickoH]

Re-registering.......very, very poor.

[fudge]

the sums talked about now though are impossible.

Life: War's over, man. Rogan dropped the big one.
Fudge: Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
NickoH: [whispering] Germans?
Jambo Power): Forget it, he's rolling.
Fudge: And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough... [thinks hard] the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go! [runs out, alone; then returns] What the fuck happened to the RAWK I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? "Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Fudge, we might get in trouble." Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this. Hicks, he's a dead man! Gillett, dead! Parry -
NickoH: Dead! Fudge's right. Psychotic, but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.
Fudge: Share Liverpool are just the guys to do it.
redbyrdz: Let's do it.
Fudge: LET'S DO IT!!
[Chaos ensues--for most of the rest of the season]

[Alan_X]

Sorry but what a fucking shambles. "Nothing needs to be done until we are in a position to actually buy shares"... oh yeah and when would that be?... when G&T just decide one day that they have had enough?

And if they do... say the price is £500,000,000 thats 100,000 members needed if the shares are priced at £5,000 but it's ok... because they only need to front up £500 each with a promise to pay the other £4,500 when it's needed.

The part paid share idea would work if the seller was happy that the project would be underwritten... if he or they could be sure that the balance would be forthcoming. If the only reassurance is that members who don't pay the balance would have their membership taken away... it's just not going to happen.

[attic]

My initial enthusiasm is fast fading.  I only heard about the need to re-register on here!  They couldn't even be bothered emailing the people who had previously registered.... this whole thing is now looking so amateurish it is embarrassing. 

[Daniel Cabbaggio]

My initial enthusiasm is fast fading.  I only heard about the need to re-register on here!  They couldn't even be bothered emailing the people who had previously registered.... this whole thing is now looking so amateurish it is embarrassing. 

to be fair there must be hundreds of thousands they have to notify,

people are being far too fickle about this in my opinion, for example "oh they've done this two years too late" "it'l never work"  "pipedream" "Amateurish" etc IF this does work Liverpool football club will be owned by the supporters Fuck the ticket bollox and all other gripes : Liverpool Football Club will be owned by the supporters end of. better than any Custodian/or any other type of fucking owner.

the share Liverpool Ideal is being taken very seriously by the people who set it up and they are working very hard from what i can gather (in spite of our own supporters ridiculing them at the merest hint of non-professionalism) in laying the groundwork for a viable takeover (whenever that may be).

theses efforts should be supported by every Liverpool fan who has an unquestioned love for this club, irrespective if whether you think it will fail or god forbid it will succeed.

the stakes are too high

its so gut wrenching seeing what has happened to our club since this fiasco has played out and i know many will read the post and say "its never going to happen" but so fuck!?!?! just get behind the idea try and support it any way you can and raise awareness,

whats the worst that could happen = nothing
the best that could happen = Liverpool fans own the club at a Non disclosed date

it is essentially a no brainer

[laddo]

My initial enthusiasm is fast fading.  I only heard about the need to re-register on here!  They couldn't even be bothered emailing the people who had previously registered.... this whole thing is now looking so amateurish it is embarrassing. 

I have to agree, and the website leaves a LOT to be desired still looks very amateurish. I would have expected them to be on Newsnow or something by now too.

[fudge]

to be fair there must be hundreds of thousands they have to notify,

people are being far too fickle about this in my opinion, for example "oh they've done this two years too late" "it'l never work"  "pipedream" "Amateurish" etc IF this does work Liverpool football club will be owned by the supporters Fuck the ticket bollox and all other gripes : Liverpool Football Club will be owned by the supporters end of. better than any Custodian/or any other type of fucking owner.

the share Liverpool Ideal is being taken very seriously by the people who set it up and they are working very hard from what i can gather (in spite of our own supporters ridiculing them at the merest hint of non-professionalism) in laying the groundwork for a viable takeover (whenever that may be).

theses efforts should be supported by every Liverpool fan who has an unquestioned love for this club, irrespective if whether you think it will fail or god forbid it will succeed.

the stakes are too high

its so gut wrenching seeing what has happened to our club since this fiasco has played out and i know many will read the post and say "its never going to happen" but so fuck!?!?! just get behind the idea try and support it any way you can and raise awareness,

whats the worst that could happen = nothing
the best that could happen = Liverpool fans own the club at a Non disclosed date

it is essentially a no brainer

yeah and i agree with most of what you say but as has already been highlighted there's a quite popular tool called email which i believe is fairly effective at contacting large numbers of people.

They should stop for a minute and think what  a corrosive effect this is having, in all honesty i couldn't give a flying fuck if Jason McAteer is onboard when they can't get the basics right,because its organisation thats going to make this a reality not former players.

[jonnygeeart]

thats what happens when academics get involved.They are fine at the theory but found woefully lacking when it comes to the practical

[Alan_X]

.

Listen I would love for it to happen. I just have no confidence in what's happened so far. Reading through the timeline on the Share Liverpool site is embarrassing and they would do well to take it down.

31 January 2008

• The ShareLiverpoolFC.com website, rapidly designed and built in just a few days, is overwhelmed and crashes.

When it was first announced I asked a few questions and was told that it was properly organised with high-powered businessmen involved etc. when it clearly wasn't.

Why is divisive nonsense like the first 20,000 getting special privileges still there... apart from the fact that it's just wrong... will that be the first 20,000 on the original site or the first 20,000 to re-register? Or should that be the first 19,992?.. as the eight board members have already been allocated shares apparently.

June 2008
 
• After various teething problems, a new ShareLiverpoolFC website (along with a newly designed logo) is finally launched.

• The FSA approves the formation of ShareLiverpoolFC as an Industrial and Provident Society and the society is formally registered. We are now allowed to call for investment under the terms of the Constitution of the Society.

• The eight newly appointed board members (see Who is Involved page), including founder Rogan Taylor, become the first members of the ShareLiverpoolFC society, each holding one share.
 

Why are there links to stories about Skrtel and Barry on the front page?

Given the apparent quality of some of the people involved it's amateurish, poorly focussed and less than transparent.

The one thing that is completely absent is any idea of the overall strategy. There are three players at the moment as far as I'm aware: Hicks & Gillett, DIC and Share Liverpool. H&G are in no hurry to sell and if they do, they will expect a hefty premium. DIC have the wherewithall to buy the club and have been in talks to do so. How are Share Liverpool going to get in on the act? By outbidding DIC?... or maybe SL have already been talking to DIC about becoming part-owners?... hardly the Barcelona model but it would give the fans some voice at the big table. The only thing that SL have that DIC don't is, or should be, the backing of the fans. Share Liverpool has to be a moral crusade if it's going to work and that means mobilising and motivating people.

What we've got is a semi-professional committee of the "great and the good" doing stuff and drip-feeding what might or might not be happening. I said at the start that what this needs is an inspirational figure who can drive it forward. Rogan Taylor is well meaning but he isn't that man.

It's all management and no inspiration. Pretty diagrams showing how the fan's parliament is going to work mean fuck all if no one has any idea how we get there.

Planning what the flag looks like and who gets which room is all very well but you have to have a plan to storm the fucking castle first.

[duggs74]

how would tranfer funds be worked i like the idea but don't think its realistic ... unless i'm missing something

[kingjari]

Alan F

who would be a suitably inspirational figure then mate ??

[Lush is the best medicine...]

it's just not going to happen.

because the idea is flawed on so many levels:

1. £5k a share - how the hell is the 'average fan' supposed to pay for this? If it was £50 per share its possible
2. One share per person - again flawed, they should have put limits onto how much an individual or group can own (e.g. up to 5%) - then you may get close to the £500m
3. Overestimating the demand - so many people want to own a stake, but how many can actually afford the £5k?
4. Disorganised, as discussed here
5. Romantic dumbasses - why the hell would two people who supposedly want to sell for a sizeable profit sell for zero profit? Didn't the people at shareLFC not think of this, or did they want to get some publicity for their do-gooder crusade?
6. DIC are still involved (or so we believe) - did they not think that H&G would use them to drive up the price if they had close to the £500m as they could use shareLFC to drive up the price to an ultimately wealthier bidder?

by the way, who was paying for the shareLFC people to go on their 'world tour' to get more people involved? i don't think anyone brought that up at the time, and was just wondering who did pay for it.

[Alan_X]

Alan F

who would be a suitably inspirational figure then mate ??

Honestly, I have no idea. I wish I did.

[fudge]

because the idea is flawed on so many levels:

1. £5k a share - how the hell is the 'average fan' supposed to pay for this? If it was £50 per share its possible

Thats got nothing to do with ShareLiverpool ,thats down to the fucking shite situation Moores and Parry left us in, and they've already said that there is going to be the option for people to invest less than £5000.

2. One share per person - again flawed, they should have put limits onto how much an individual or group can own (e.g. up to 5%) - then you may get close to the £500m

I'm in complete agreement here, the best case scenario would be for individuals to own but at these levels there's got to be the option for others to invest more than the 5k somehow.

3. Overestimating the demand - so many people want to own a stake, but how many can actually afford the £5k?

It was never going to happen from day one, but there's been a sizeable interest initially and this will snowball if they can get their act together and become more innovative.

4. Disorganised, as discussed here

Yes clearly this is the case, but that shouldn't mean the death of a good idea and the only guaranteed option for long term security for the club.

5. Romantic dumbasses - why the hell would two people who supposedly want to sell for a sizeable profit sell for zero profit? Didn't the people at shareLFC not think of this, or did they want to get some publicity for their do-gooder crusade?

They'd be making a sizeable profit if ShareLiverpool achieved its goals. They got the club on the cheap and now whoever they sell to will see them pocketing a tidy fee.

Its not a do gooder crusade, its clearly the best option for the club, and anything to avoid the damage these two turds have done.

6. DIC are still involved (or so we believe) - did they not think that H&G would use them to drive up the price if they had close to the £500m as they could use shareLFC to drive up the price to an ultimately wealthier bidder?

by the way, who was paying for the shareLFC people to go on their 'world tour' to get more people involved? i don't think anyone brought that up at the time, and was just wondering who did pay for it.

How could anyone use ShareLiverpool to drive up the fee? & who cares if they did, if ShareLiverpool had the 500m they'd be in the driving seat because they would be backed by the fans and so another investor wouldn't stand much chance getting to the table.

[crazeehorse]

Thanks for registering your interest. We need all the help we can get to deliver fan ownership and empowerment at Liverpool FC. We’ll keep you in touch with ShareLiverpoolFC news by email....

Well I registered the first time and have never received an email.now, reluctantly, i have registered a second time, and yet again. no confirmation email,nada.Initially i was very positive and passionate about your project, but the dodgy nature of the website and communications is starting to dampen that enthusiasm.

get on top of it guys,it will make or break u.

[laddo]

• After various teething problems, a new ShareLiverpoolFC website (along with a newly designed logo) is finally launched.

And what is this new logo (it must be good if it even features in their amazing timeline).



Oh.

Looks like something a 10 year old made when playing around with paint or something back in 1996.

Everything about the website spells unprofessional and poorly designed.

If they want to be taken seriously, they should spend a little by getting someone decent to design a proper logo and a proper website. Look what AFC Liverpool have built in a much shorter space of time - thats professional and well run, take note ShareLiverpool.

[west_london_red]

I think the best hope for fans buying the club is when either G&H or if they sell to DIC decide to float all or part of the club to raise capital.

For a short answer, right now the club is to 100% in the hand of OOC'ers. Even if they sell, to DIC or whomever, this is unlikely to change. With ShareLFC, at least a part of the owners would be local.

Apart from that, I think people here over-estimate the amount of power the 'member-owners' would have. The club will be run by a professional executive board, and the influence of the owners will likely be limited to the participation in an annual meeting, the acceptance of last-years financial figures, and the election of a few key board members.

Most of these decisions will concern more the general running of the club, and presumably opinions opinions will be divided between all members, not only between Scousers and OOTers. The other thing to keep in mind is that OOT/OOCers are not a homogeneous group - Chinese and American fans may have vastly different opinions, for example.

One way to enhance the influence of "local" members would be to demand physical attendance of all members that want to take part in voting for board members etc, which would've course be easier to do for locals.

Why would i want to contribute £5k of my hard earned money in to share liverpool if im then told 'oh your not from Liverpool, your opinion dont count'. There would be a queue around Anfield of OOT'ers wanting their money back very quickly!

[eeayeaddio]

I think the best hope for fans buying the club is when either G&H or if they sell to DIC decide to float all or part of the club to raise capital.

Why would i want to contribute £5k of my hard earned money in to share liverpool if im then told 'oh your not from Liverpool, your opinion dont count'. There would be a queue around Anfield of OOT'ers wanting their money back very quickly!

You've got to appreciate the comedic element.

[fudge]

You've got to appreciate the comedic element.

i've had quite enough of that in our chief exec

[VAMOS!]

Could we have a Barcelona style ownership for LFC and organise a fan's buy-out ?
We would need 100,000 fans to invest this years ISA allowance of £7000 in purchasing the club!
This is not as ridiculous as it might sound. Don't forget that we have many very wealthy fan's !
The men in prime position to organise such a venture are both already on the board.
A management buy-out could be organised.

what a bad idea that is la