Author Topic: Lawro's verdict for the forthcoming season  (Read 9796 times)

Offline Noli

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Re: Lawro's verdict for the forthcoming season
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2008, 12:37:06 pm »
Not arsed if he's right or wrong he's a first class wanker, twat c*nt. Thinks hes funny when he's not. The Arsenal justice game was the final straw for me... "right, so can we get on with the football now". Yeah sound Mark, go and fucking die.

1st class wanker,he really fucking irritates me
Time to start educating the masses, theres no excuse for ignorance,either you choose not to know or not to care

Offline And Could He Play

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Re: Lawro's verdict for the forthcoming season
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2008, 12:37:15 pm »
I dont see why Lawro is getting so much abuse.

Even if we sign Barry, I would predict that we will come third. We are still not as strong as Chelsea or Man U, and certainly wont be stronger should they get Kaka/Robinho and Silva/Berbatov respectively

Its really not over that article, its Lawro in general.
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Offline Walter Sobchak

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Re: Lawro's verdict for the forthcoming season
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2008, 12:38:55 pm »
I dont see why Lawro is getting so much abuse.

Even if we sign Barry, I would predict that we will come third. We are still not as strong as Chelsea or Man U, and certainly wont be stronger should they get Kaka/Robinho and Silva/Berbatov respectively

lawro has made his bed over the past number of years constantly taking swipes at how rafa goes about his job. some people just go into auto reply mode when they read anything he says about us

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Re: Lawro's verdict for the forthcoming season
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2008, 12:45:10 pm »
I dont see why Lawro is getting so much abuse.

Partly because he seems to assume football fans know nothing, which is not the case. Great player obviously, but as a "pundit' he seems to be a decade or two behind the times.

Offline lamonti

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Re: Lawro's verdict for the forthcoming season
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2008, 12:58:44 pm »
Those defending Lawro for predicting whats wrong with Liverpool this season.... holy moly, everyone can see that we've no wingers. Its never been our biggest problem. Funny how all English pundits think wingers are a necessity despite the fact they clearly aren't. Our biggest problem remains as it has been for years, that we don't believe we can win the league, and thats probably because we've never even had a really really good challenge in years and years and the competition is 1. so and 2. fucking loaded, so we have another excuse.

Hopefully players like Torres and the other Spaniards can start to believe in the possibility. Even Arsenal believed they could win last year until their lack of experience and depth was exposed (badly). We never gave that impression bar the Sunday after beating Derby 6-0.

Offline Life

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Re: Lawro's verdict for the forthcoming season
« Reply #45 on: August 13, 2008, 01:24:32 pm »
I'm with you on this Life; see we do agree form time to time ;)

I've been thinking....I might have been talking bollocks all morning..
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Offline Sid7

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Re: Lawro's verdict for the forthcoming season
« Reply #46 on: August 13, 2008, 02:34:43 pm »
Lawro's an expert at managing expectations...saying we'll end up 3rd in a way is good. if we do better,  he gets to say he was wrong with a grin on his face. If we do as predicted he comes off as the smug bastard who knew it all along.

Based on squad strength and experience we are third best. How we start off and play against the other top '3' teams is the only indicator which will prove Lawro is wrong. Were he to come out and say that Liverpool will win it would indeed by laughable...especially when you consider the only real major signing has been Keane (and to some extent Dossena).
And I'll hammer my point home again - you're worrying about nothing and making yourself look stupid.
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Offline hesbighesred

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Re: Lawro's verdict for the forthcoming season
« Reply #47 on: August 13, 2008, 04:19:29 pm »
It's all very well giving the argument that the Mancs play interchangable strikers but we don't.  We do play many "strikers" but they do not interchange. 

Our players aren't given the freedom of the Mancs and it's one of the few areas that I'd criticise Rafa for.  We're hard to break down because of it, you know Kuyt will get back and defend on the right every time, but we're limited as an attacking force when a great ball is played across the box and nobody is there. The clearest example of this is Xabi Alonso.  When he's not "tethered" to a defensive/deep midfield position he will run the game, however in the past season or 2 he's not been his best as he's been stuck about 30 yards behind where he should be.

I would love if Rafa proved Lawro and me wrong, and sent out everybody forward of the 2 defensive mids with the instruction of "go out, score goals" but it won't happen.  Rafa loves chess and he treats his football matches like a game of chess.  The players are his pieces and they can only move in certain directions and into specified positions.

Disagree with almost every word of that. We've seen pre-season that our strikers do interchange. They pretty much always have in games where we've been reasonably in control. The striker's ability interchange is also conditional on the strikers ability.

The likes of Kuyt, Babel, Keane, even Torres, have never been 'pure' strikers as an earlier post put it. Keane has always drifted deep and into the channels, Kuyt started his career on the right and has always played there for Holland, Babel has mainly played left of a front 3 for Ajax, us AND Holland, so why there's this constant perception that his 'natural' position is anything other than the one he has played most of his career is utterly beyond me. Torres, of course, has only really been used as an out and out striker by us.

So, thus far Rafa has been limited in his ability to let the strikers interchange. Last season we saw plenty of Torres/Gerrard pulling wide and Kuyt/Babel going central, we just didn't see it being particularly effective because, frankly, Torres' passing and crossing was not always up to scratch, and Kuyt was unable to exploit the chances he did get.

Our options included players like Crouch and Pennant...who are pretty much limited to one specific role only, hence including one already makes the whole front 4 vastly more rigid.

This season Keane, Torres, Gerrard, Kuyt, N'gog, Benayoun...basically all of our front 4 options, are capable of playing at least 2 positions within the 4 to a huge degree of comfort, all of them have excellent mentality and physique, and there is no doubt whatsoever that they will be flexible and interchange, especially as time goes on...the pure fluidity that Man U had at times took a while to appear on the pitch, with some very mediocre results in the interim.

As for Alonso, I'm not convinced that this is down to Rafa handcuffing the player. Mash, when he plays, has more defensive responsibilty yet actually manages to get forward, and into better positions, than Alonso tends to. Alonso is class, but maybe the problem is with Alonso's lack of flexibility rather than Rafa's?

Just a last point:

Quote
I would love if Rafa proved Lawro and me wrong, and sent out everybody forward of the 2 defensive mids with the instruction of "go out, score goals" but it won't happen.  Rafa loves chess and he treats his football matches like a game of chess.  The players are his pieces and they can only move in certain directions and into specified positions.

Yet, funnily enough, Torres credits exactly that approach with him having his best ever season. There's no problem telling players they have to perform within a strict system, the problem is getting players with the brains and skill to implement it properly.

It's all very well and good to say that our attackers would be better off just being told to 'go out there and play...' but where's the evidence?

That argument has been used in defensive of poorly disciplined creative players and against systematic managers (which include the managers of the most legendary attacking sides of all time, like Michel's Ajax and Holland, Saachi's Milan) but it's NEVER been true. It was said of Sir Stanley Matthews, who won sod all, while a more systematised Hungary side were stomping all before them. You think Hidegkuti just played in the hole because he felt like it? Or was it the result of a manager having a specific idea and moving him into that position, like he might with a 'chess piece'? It was also said of players like Pele, Maradona and Zidane, the latter two of whom had entire teams built around their skills, and in Pele's case had established systems fundamentally changed to get the best out of him.

Latterly, we've had Real Madrid an indeed Barca taking that approach on and running with it...and falling over. Hard.

Do you think that Man U's fluidity last season was the result of Rooney, Tevez and Ronaldo's natural skills just combining together on the pitch, maybe after they'd had a little tete a tete between themselves?

Or do you think it was actually the result of countless hours of drilling behind the scenes, countless hours of 'No Tevez, if Rooney goes there, and Ronaldo goes there, you have to go here.'?

If letting attacking players express themselves wholly according to their own instincts then a formation of 1-2-7 would be the best way of winning football matches. Unfortunately history has shown time and time again that given two teams of equal ability, the more intelligenty organised team is by far the most likely to win.

In fact, the difference between organisation and skill is so vast that Greece can beat Portrugal to a European Championship, merely by having the correct organisational structure.

As Sacchi himself said, and indeed claims to have proved, 5 organised players can stop 10 disorganised players from scoring...ever.
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Offline nocturnalvin

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Re: Lawro's verdict for the forthcoming season
« Reply #48 on: August 13, 2008, 04:26:17 pm »
I try not to read the whole thread, but i would be surprised if we don't see a great player for us being called a c*nt a dozen times.

ffs, he is a poor pundit and thats it.

Offline Skeeve

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Re: Lawro's verdict for the forthcoming season
« Reply #49 on: August 13, 2008, 05:00:37 pm »
Can't stand him as a pundit even when he isn't slagging us off, he's decent enough as a commentator and should stick with that.

Offline hesbighesred

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Re: Lawro's verdict for the forthcoming season
« Reply #50 on: August 13, 2008, 05:14:15 pm »
On the one hand you said how flexible and interchangeable we are, then on the 2nd, you said how thats not the way to go and how we need a more rigid, organised system?

Confuzzled

No, I'm saying that true interchangibility to work it has to come in the context of a highly organised and developed system.

'Total Football', for example, is able to have players swap positions all the time because, not in spite of, it being a highly organised, very disciplined and hugely drilled system. Then, you obviously also need players who are capable of swapping positions, which I think explains why Rafa prefers (as long as they have a certain minimum level of technique) some players like Barry and Kuyt over arguably more skilled, but far less versatile players.

Hence, Man U's fluidity didn't come from their attacking players being given complete 'freedom', it came from them being well drilled and organised and disciplined, and having a range of skills allowing them to interchange (hence why Ruud was sold) which when done well enough looks like freedom.

Similarly, Torres looked like he played with a lot of 'freedom' last season, yet he credits a large amount of his scoring exploits to the detailed instructions and organisation he was given.

Hope that clarifies it?
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Offline hesbighesred

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Re: Lawro's verdict for the forthcoming season
« Reply #51 on: August 13, 2008, 06:31:30 pm »
The reason probably why Torres scored more for us than he did for his old team (and spain) is probably because we play more direct football. He doesnt look as comfortable in a pass and move team.

He probably wouldnt do as well at Arsenal and Man Utd than he would do for us or Chelsea,

I don't think so.

The reason is that we play him on the shoulder of the last defender. He's scored plenty of goals from us from 'pass and move' moves, and while we mix it up, we're hardly 'direct' in the sense of a Watford or something. Just a bit more direct than our rivals.

You saw when he played for Spain that as soon as Villa got injured, he got an absolute ton of chances as the lone frontman. As many as he does for us, and more than he did alongside Villa. Now, although they did play a little more directly with him up front, as he gives that extra option, they were still playing possession based 'pass and move' football.
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Offline diddyfaz-golborne

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Re: Lawro's verdict for the forthcoming season
« Reply #52 on: August 13, 2008, 10:39:50 pm »
lawro is a wife beater..end of!

Offline Stef08

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Re: Lawro's verdict for the forthcoming season
« Reply #53 on: August 13, 2008, 10:43:57 pm »
After that performance tipping us for third is very generous and ambitious

Offline McmanaMark

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Re: Lawro's verdict for the forthcoming season
« Reply #54 on: August 13, 2008, 10:44:14 pm »
For me, Kuyt is never a pure striker, simply doesn't have the touch or awareness. Along with Keane and Babel (and Nemeth), they are support strikers who can be highly effective in several different positions. Torres and N'Gog are, IMO our only out-and-out strikers

I'd say Nemeth is very much a line-leading poacher, along the lines of a Fowler, Andy Cole or Miroslav Klose.

That kind of player really needs a partner in a 4-4-2 however. It takes someone a bit strong and more well-rounded to play up top in a 4-2-3-1.
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Offline guest

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Re: Lawro's verdict for the forthcoming season
« Reply #55 on: August 13, 2008, 10:45:37 pm »
After that performance tipping us for third is very generous and ambitious

Because a 3rd round qualifier away against a good Belgian side is an indication of the whole season.

Gotcha.

Offline Stef08

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Re: Lawro's verdict for the forthcoming season
« Reply #56 on: August 13, 2008, 10:47:52 pm »
It was tongue in cheek mate

Offline guest

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Re: Lawro's verdict for the forthcoming season
« Reply #57 on: August 13, 2008, 10:50:35 pm »
So was mine.   ;)

Sorry. I'm on alert for prats tonight.    :-[

Offline Pepe Reina Is Rafas Son

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Re: Lawro's verdict for the forthcoming season
« Reply #58 on: August 14, 2008, 04:19:38 am »
Lawro is a twat but I honestly think we need to finish second before finishing first.

I still think Rafa is the man, despite what these Americans have done to this club.

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Stabbed your boss in the back, the man who made you fucking European Champions, and got in the man you wanted as manager. Just because Rafa wouldn't fucking cuddle you enough and fucking wank you off while telling you how fucking great you are.

Offline Ozzy_Red

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Re: Lawro's verdict for the forthcoming season
« Reply #59 on: August 14, 2008, 06:41:58 am »
WE WILL WIN THE LEAGUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


End Of!!!!!!!!
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Offline The Nihilists

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Re: Lawro's verdict for the forthcoming season
« Reply #60 on: August 14, 2008, 12:02:58 pm »
Gotta laugh - how many other managers does he criticise?

None.

Yet he says Rafa is going to misuse Keane AND that he shouldn't buy his no.1 target.