Author Topic: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE  (Read 2307473 times)

Online Just Elmo?

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47880 on: January 17, 2021, 04:13:23 pm »
Do people expect serious illness and deaths to start dropping in 4-6 week's time then if the vaccine programme continues to roll out successfully? Should we see a dramatic drop in hospital admissions?

There was an episode of the Guardians Today in Focus episode on Wednesday that was all about the rollout of the vaccine. The Guardian's science editor Robin Mckie was on it and addressed this point directly. There is a trial ongoing at Bristol University which is looking at patients with pneumonia (hig numbers of cases at this time of year regardless of the pandemic). They compare which have pneumonia with Covid and those without Covid, and then compare with who has had the vaccine and who hasn't and they can work out from that  (and how the ratio changes over the coming weeks) whether the vaccine is working. This apparently will be the first indicator on how well it is working.

The podcast episode is well worth a listen.

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47881 on: January 17, 2021, 04:22:25 pm »
Do people expect serious illness and deaths to start dropping in 4-6 week's time then if the vaccine programme continues to roll out successfully? Should we see a dramatic drop in hospital admissions?

I've found this thread really helpful when it comes to looking at the numbers. Basically deaths should drop as well as hospital numbers but ICU numbers might not due to a large percentage of them being taken by the 45-65 age bracket, so until they are vaccinated hospital numbers may still be high

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47882 on: January 17, 2021, 04:23:36 pm »
I've found this thread really helpful when it comes to looking at the numbers. Basically deaths should drop but hospital numbers might not due to a large percentage of them being taken by the 45-65 age bracket, so until they are vaccinated hospital numbers may still be high
Yeah... we have to vaccinate 50+ beifre we really relax the lockdowns
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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47883 on: January 17, 2021, 06:32:35 pm »
I've found this thread really helpful when it comes to looking at the numbers. Basically deaths should drop as well as hospital numbers but ICU numbers might not due to a large percentage of them being taken by the 45-65 age bracket, so until they are vaccinated hospital numbers may still be high

Yes, worth mentioning again that the older age groups are often not moved to ICU to keep those beds for people with a better chance of survival.
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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47884 on: January 17, 2021, 08:12:02 pm »
4.3 million doses now given, 3.85 million had one does, 450k have had a second.

That’s 300k doses on a Sunday which isn’t a bad showing at all.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2021, 08:14:18 pm by west_london_red »

Offline Guz-kop

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47885 on: January 17, 2021, 08:25:13 pm »
The vaccination numbers are brilliant, quite remarkable really. Makes it all the sadder we've put ourselves in the dire situation we are in, but some glimmer of positive news at least
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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47886 on: January 17, 2021, 08:42:20 pm »
The vaccination numbers are brilliant, quite remarkable really. Makes it all the sadder we've put ourselves in the dire situation we are in, but some glimmer of positive news at least
The new centres and surgeries should add another 3-400k a week ... so, let’s hope we can build on that further.

« Last Edit: January 17, 2021, 08:52:12 pm by TepidT2O »
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Offline AmSeeker

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47887 on: January 17, 2021, 08:59:36 pm »
Clearly a failure to lockdown early, close borders, effective track and trace system has hurt us.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 01:01:12 am by AmSeeker »

Offline Classycara

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47888 on: January 17, 2021, 09:18:47 pm »
snip

Vast majority of frustrations in there to agree with, although think a few things don't hold.

For example local health protection teams with expertise in controlling infectious diseases and lots of experience contact tracing have been in place throughough. Sadly their, and Public Health England's, budget has been cut literally every year since 2010 when the Tories came into power. So the expertise and local boots on the crowd have been in play throughout, and expanded. But the starting point was a decimated infrastructure and workforce because on the rare occasions Tory governments throw money at health its to healthcare (usually to counter their critically dangerous underfunding) rather than public health and prevention.

Also our world class scientists have never said the silly thing you've suggested, that the virus is going to go away. Likewise that it's 'just a flu', noone in public health here was saying that while the virus was killing people in Italy. Chris Witty didn't mention 20,000 deaths because he thought it was like an average flu, that's made up - numbers of mortality scenarios were modelled based on international evidence available on covid at the time, not on flu. You suggest the border was open to Wuhan, but that's an unfair way to present allowing citizens to be repatriated while being monitored in isolation on their return to Arrowe Park - something you praised singapore for.

Unfortunately all the world class scientists here can do is advise and advocate, but ultimately they are in post to serve the public's health, but they don't get to choose the decision makers in government - the public did that to us.

One thing I'd be curious to hear, as someone who left the UK for Singapore in June/July (at a guess, since you mention six months), how would you have felt if the borders were shut as you wanted? Would you have been fine with not leaving the country?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2021, 09:22:12 pm by Classycara »

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47889 on: January 17, 2021, 09:22:47 pm »
I think you’ll find very few people disagreeing with your assessment AMSeeker. For me what’s stands out is that we have spent the last 4 years arguing about our relationship with the rest of Europe, spent the last 70 odd years celebrating our victory over the Germans yet seems to have forgotten the one decisive factor for the last thousand years (yes since William the fucking Conquer) is that we are an island, and that is what should have saved us this time. Yes it’s not as easy as Australia or NZ or Singapore because of our size, but the government squandered the massive advantage we have over most nations by leaving the bordered open and lax enforcement and checks when people entered the country. The sensible approach would be to encourage people who want to come home to come back in the next few weeks while we still have a lockdown so that provides some protection to everyone else, and make it clear what the policy will be for anyone who comes back after that date in terms of having to stay in quarantine and what it will cost them (assuming the story in the Times of the government intends to implement something similar to Australia and Singapore by the sounds of it in the UK).
« Last Edit: January 17, 2021, 09:25:18 pm by west_london_red »

Offline AmSeeker

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47890 on: January 17, 2021, 09:28:29 pm »

Not advocating borders closing in the finite sense, the UK is a huge global hub. But you can't clearly have open borders either, with not even the basic checks in place. The system Singapore, Thailand, South Korea, and most of asian countries have in place is very effective balanaced system in terms of economy and keeping the virus out - a far better balance than the extremely tough Australian stance (where there own citizens can't get back). Anyone who wants to enter has to go through an enforced quarantine programme for 15 days - to make sure they are free of the virus before they enter the country. The system we have in place at the moment is effectively voluntarily - with very few adhering.

« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 01:03:37 am by AmSeeker »

Offline Classycara

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47891 on: January 17, 2021, 10:33:30 pm »
Not advocating borders closing in the finite sense, the UK is a huge global hub. But you can't clearly have open borders either, with not even the basic checks in place. The system Singapore, Thailand, South Korea, and most of asian countries have in place is very effective balanaced system in terms of economy and keeping the virus out - a far better balance than the extremely tough Australian stance (where there own citizens can't get back). Anyone who wants to enter has to go through an enforced quarantine programme for 15 days - to make sure they are free of the virus before they enter the country. The system we have in place at the moment is effectively voluntarily - with very few adhering.
fair enough. That's not closing the borders though, and the only thing missing from UK policy is the enforced hotel quarantine step of the process being stood up. i can see the appeal, but presumably there are finite resources/people able to work on this and the army for example were already occupied during the first wave.

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Yes the NHS was decimated with funds, but once the virus start having tragic effects we did pump alot of money at the problem, largely most of it wasted. We threw huge volumes at the track and trace system. Instead of just copying what they have done in the experienced far east countries who have been through these pandemics before, we went down our own path. It doesn't do anything, not one thing. It's just a call centre.
You can't turn around 10 years of budget cuts with money and six months time though. That build up of expertise, experience and infrastructure takes time. Seems unfair to me that you blame the people who have hung around and done this for years despite the government and public not appreciating their efforts.

Few have been more critical of test and trace, but I don't think you can say on recent evidence it's just a call centre. Take a look at the proportion of successful follow ups in their weekly reports (you'll also see how incredibly effective overrun and dedicated the pre-existing Health Protection Teams are). If you take a look at the research on the new variants of concern you will also see how the contact tracing data has been useful for assessing risks of travellers from for example Denmark/South Africa/Brazil and determining policy.

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Of course it's just my opinion, but they clearly advocated Herd immunity, and the scientists were quoting death rates of 20,000 as a 'good result'. These are clearly modelled on a flu type virus. I can't fathom how our scientists could make that mistake? Even if they can only suggest and politicians act, i can't ever see any of them getting up resigning as a matter of principle that what the government was doing was just wrong - we are essentially going to end up killing 100,000 people - when it needn't have been.
sorry but you've left the realms of truth here. Your opinion is wrong, and evidently you aren't aware of the modelling methodologies. They're publicly published and there's been plenty of scrutiny on them. The idea they're modelled on data not related to COVID is misinformation.

And ok, since you're blaming the scientists but not the government and saying they should resign - what then? let the government fill the position with a yes-man? do you think that would improve things? How can you criticise the suggestion that 20,000 deaths is the best case scenario for controlling the virus, when referring to 100,000 deaths? Surely on reflection you can see that it was a fair assessment even if you are uncomfortable with the unpleasant-truth semantics

Saying public health workers and scientists are "essentially going to end up killing 100,000 people" is incredibly offensive and disrespectful to all the thousands of people working so hard in these difficult times to protect you and your loved ones.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2021, 10:41:17 pm by Classycara »

Offline Guz-kop

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47892 on: January 17, 2021, 11:59:25 pm »
I think the 20k deaths line was taken out of context. It was said in March 17th, the week we should have properly locked down but didn't and merely asked people to stay at home and not go out. His point was that things were so bad at the time if we came out the other end with 20k deaths it would have been a success. Not that they were hoping for it.

Sage documents in January and Feb do talk about comparisons to influenza and modelling based on that because data from China was limited. I don't remember how much reference was made to sars 1 and mers in those documents - not much I don't think. Their biggest mistake was acknowledging lockdowns in China etc were working but not thinking it would be necessary here. Its not unreasonable to suggest we got that wrong early on and realised far too late there were many more cases in the UK than we thought, largely because air travel was totally unrestricted and unchecked. Even by that point John Edmunds was on Channel 4 on Friday night arguing lockdown wasn't needed.

Not learning from wuhan in January was understandable. Ignoring Italy and expecting we would not suffer the same fate wasn't. Not learning from our own mistakes is unforgivable
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 12:04:17 am by Guz-kop »
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Offline AmSeeker

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47893 on: January 18, 2021, 12:02:46 am »
We will still need track and trace for the new variants that may bypass the vaccines in the future, so it's vital they change this, rather than plodding on.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 01:03:14 am by AmSeeker »

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47894 on: January 18, 2021, 12:04:47 am »
I wonder if there will be any data published in the coming weeks about those who’ve been vaccinated but later test positive.

Offline Classycara

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47895 on: January 18, 2021, 12:15:26 am »

Never once mentioned the fantastic brave work our public health workers are doing. They are a credit. Not sure why you've bought them into the discussion.

You did. What do you think "the scientists" that you referred to are working on if not public health? Chris Witty is too. Health Protection teams are (and they make up the most vital part of the contact tracing system you railed against, dealing with the most complex outbreak situation). The modellers who modelled the CFR of the virus, who modelled the effectiveness of interventions, who recommended the lockdowns that were deferred in March and ignored in September. The leaders who you think should have relinquished their expertise and let their positions be taken up by potential yes-men, they're public health workers you criticised too. You mentioned different facets of public health workers responsibilities repeatedly.

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Had we clearly identified (as the rest of the world had) the dangers of the virus - which was clearly obvious - we could have locked down and been spared the horrendous problems we have had.
2 million people around the world are dead now, but you think only the UK made mistakes? It's possible to clearly identify danger but not successfully mitigate it - it's not mutually exclusive. I tihnk that probably sums up our planet right about now. Can you please give some evidence that the risks of the virus were incorrectly identified?

From my recollection, British scientists and researchers have had their early research from very limited data (incomplete from wuhan, and built from limited 'natural experiments' like cruise ship outbreaks. What did you identify that they didnt?

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47896 on: January 18, 2021, 12:19:14 am »
I let the dogs out the other night in the cold and I stood outside and watched my breath swirl and rise as the droplets hit the cold and realised just how much we exhale every few seconds. Next time it is cold, watch your breath and imagine if this breath was infected just how much you can spread just by existing near someone. 2 metres seemed not enough I would say.
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Offline Shankly998

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47897 on: January 18, 2021, 12:20:40 am »
So what do people think did the virus escape from the Wuhan lab?




Offline Black Bull Nova

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47898 on: January 18, 2021, 12:36:47 am »
What did you identify that they didnt?

1. The only scientific thing I observed was that, of the 5 countries with most deaths, 3 had knobheads as leaders (USA, Brazil and UK). That seems a real correlation to me.

2. Japan is an advanced industrial nation, an Island just of a busy continent with an economy interdependent with the rest of the world. They have had less than 5,000 deaths from a population of 125m, we are pushing 90,000 from a population of 67m, I suppose that might mean something as well. Could there be a link somehow with 1 above?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 12:38:53 am by Black Bull Nova »
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Offline AmSeeker

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47899 on: January 18, 2021, 12:37:24 am »
We can only hope our vaccine efforts succeed.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 01:04:17 am by AmSeeker »

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47900 on: January 18, 2021, 12:42:57 am »
The only scientific thing I observed was that, of the 5 countries with most deaths, 3 had knobheads as leaders (USA, Brazil and UK). That seems a real correlation to me.

Japan is an advanced industrial nation, an Island just of a busy continent with an economy interdependent with the rest of the world. They have had less than 5,000 deaths from a population of 125m, we are pushing 90,000 from a population of 67m, I suppose that might mean something as well.

I was talking about the idea that the dangers weren't identified, which was nonsense, not disagreeing that the response could and should have been better.

Still think it's important to recognise the role that structural and social inequalities, along with strategic underfunding of the public health and healthcare systems in this country in the past ten years has played as big a role as any (aside from unforgivable failures to financially support people self isolating and listen to the governments scientists in September and not having the rapid 'firebreak'). If people focus only on the previous year alone, they aren't going to understand the causes of the high number of deaths in the UK.

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47901 on: January 18, 2021, 12:54:24 am »
If you believe SAGE have come out of this blameless then that's your opinion. My opinion is our leading scientific community have made huge catastrophic errors throughout - be it not understanding the brutality of the virus, their projections, late lockdown, borders, etc

-snip-

We can all agree not one element of our response to this has been good. We can only hope our vaccine efforts succeed.

You haven't really addressed the points I was making, and have repeated yourself with claims that aren't backed up with evidence.

You bizarrely think people weren't looking at Wuhan, despite the many dozen research articles, official reports, official minutes that show that they were. You bizarrely think SAGE didn't think the virus was brutal despite their modelling and evidence forcing the government into the first lockdown when they warned COVID would kill hundreds of thousands of us if they didn't. Now you've said 'their projections' - can you elaborate on what projections you're even talking about please?

Oh and you've also totally made up a position that I've never once said, in your very first sentence.

By the way, when you compared UK's deaths to our neighbours, but ignored France because it didn't help your point? That's called cherry picking. 

You might not think there have been any elements of the response at all that have been good, but I think those aware of the work that goes into public health wouldn't be so heartless in their assessment of how our public health workers/scientists have worked tirelessly in the last year. For our benefit, despite an often hostile public.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 12:56:54 am by Classycara »

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47902 on: January 18, 2021, 01:03:31 am »
So what do people think did the virus escape from the Wuhan lab?

It seems so doesn't it. Will we ever find out the truth though, I doubt it. They will only show the WHO what they want them to see.

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« Reply #47903 on: January 18, 2021, 01:38:31 am »
So what do people think did the virus escape from the Wuhan lab?


Not sure if we’ll ever get an answer to that. What’s becoming more clear though is that the seafood market in Wuhan was most likely not the site of the initial outbreak and merely just the first example of a superspreading event with this virus. Of the initial 50 hospitalisations with covid, a substantial number had no contact with the market (though of course many did so the initial thoughts were it originated there).

Current thinking is that this coronavirus jumped from bats to pangolins, back to bats and then to humans. Though there may be a missing link between that final jump from bats to humans. Finding that link could be key to figuring out where and when this might have started spreading in humans.

The possibility is there that the bat to pangolin and back to bat had occurred a while ago. And that the final bat to human could have occurred in a research setting. There’s a theory that it may also have been spreading at a low level for many months although went unnoticed as it was it was less lethal. Genetic analysis so far suggests that a change in the virus doesn’t support that. It doesn’t rule out that it was spreading at a low level for months though and went unnoticed until clusters of pneumonia were seen due to distinct super spreading events like the seafood market. I would think that it was spreading for a while in Wuhan in the later months of 2019. Did it come from a lab leak? I’m not sure, I’d put myself at 70/30 that it didn’t at the moment.

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« Reply #47904 on: January 18, 2021, 02:45:19 am »
Not sure if we’ll ever get an answer to that. What’s becoming more clear though is that the seafood market in Wuhan was most likely not the site of the initial outbreak and merely just the first example of a superspreading event with this virus. Of the initial 50 hospitalisations with covid, a substantial number had no contact with the market (though of course many did so the initial thoughts were it originated there).

Current thinking is that this coronavirus jumped from bats to pangolins, back to bats and then to humans. Though there may be a missing link between that final jump from bats to humans. Finding that link could be key to figuring out where and when this might have started spreading in humans.

The possibility is there that the bat to pangolin and back to bat had occurred a while ago. And that the final bat to human could have occurred in a research setting. There’s a theory that it may also have been spreading at a low level for many months although went unnoticed as it was it was less lethal. Genetic analysis so far suggests that a change in the virus doesn’t support that. It doesn’t rule out that it was spreading at a low level for months though and went unnoticed until clusters of pneumonia were seen due to distinct super spreading events like the seafood market. I would think that it was spreading for a while in Wuhan in the later months of 2019. Did it come from a lab leak? I’m not sure, I’d put myself at 70/30 that it didn’t at the moment.

Só in summary, stop allowing the import and eating of the dead flesh of exotic/rare animals in obscene conditions. (Spoiler: that won’t happen.)

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« Reply #47905 on: January 18, 2021, 06:33:34 am »
1. The only scientific thing I observed was that, of the 5 countries with most deaths, 3 had knobheads as leaders (USA, Brazil and UK). That seems a real correlation to me.


I noticed that Brazil rushed through approval of Coronavac vaccine from China which only has a 50% efficacy.

Israel has deemed the 4.5m Palestinians in the illegally occupied territories to not be a priority over Israeli citizens when it comes to getting out the vaccine. Apparently, the Palestinian Authority are responsible for these people.
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« Reply #47906 on: January 18, 2021, 06:41:22 am »
Só in summary, stop allowing the import and eating of the dead flesh of exotic/rare animals in obscene conditions. (Spoiler: that won’t happen.)
If it were well publicised possibly it would have an effect on consumption and cultural old wives tales about consuming these animals.

Offline BarryCrocker

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« Reply #47907 on: January 18, 2021, 08:20:52 am »
Of course Ireland is seriously fcked when it comes to making decisions about their sovereign borders. 3k cases per day.

Quote
The Government will consider implementing a stricter regime for inwardbound travellers amid growing concern about new strains of the coronavirus.

There have been 1,500 arrivals from Brazil in the past two weeks and those travellers have now been asked by the Minister for Health Stephen Donnelly to contact a GP, get a coronavirus test and restrict their movements.

Government sources have said that Ministers will this week discuss all aspects of travel regulations in light of concerns about new Covid-19 strains from the UK, South Africa and Brazil.

Sources have said that while it would be legally complex, they cannot rule out implementing a stricter regime on inward-bound travellers to make it mandatory to quarantine for 14 days in a hotel.
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Offline rob1966

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47908 on: January 18, 2021, 08:47:24 am »
Over 70's start getting contacted today. My stepdad and his neighbours, who I have known since I was 18, will be first in line as they are almost 80. Buzzing knowing he'll be getting his first dose soon.

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47909 on: January 18, 2021, 08:51:23 am »
Over 70's start getting contacted today. My stepdad and his neighbours, who I have known since I was 18, will be first in line as they are almost 80. Buzzing knowing he'll be getting his first dose soon.

Do they do it by age within the brackets, or is it pot luck? My mum turned 70 last week.

Offline rob1966

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47910 on: January 18, 2021, 09:15:35 am »
Do they do it by age within the brackets, or is it pot luck? My mum turned 70 last week.

There are two groups, group 3 is the 75 and over and then group 4 is 70 and over, so he will be in grp 3 and your Mum in grp 4.

No idea if they just deliver the vaccines to each region and they get on with it. So as en extreme example, if someone lives in an area where they need to do 40,000 vaccinations and 35,000 are under 75, then an under 75 would be done before a 77 yr old in an area with 40,000 but 30,000 are over 78. The good news is, all these people are only looking at weeks now.

« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 09:18:10 am by rob1966 »

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47911 on: January 18, 2021, 10:22:33 am »
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/coronavirus-vaccine-wales-mark-drakeford-19645075.amp

So Drakeford would rather give out the vaccine slowly until we get more doses instead of getting as many done in as short a time all so the workers in the vaccination centres aren't standing around doing nothing? Yeah let more people contract Covid because they weren't vaccinated early enough just so people aren't bored sitting on their arses, makes perfect sense that

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47912 on: January 18, 2021, 10:37:22 am »
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/coronavirus-vaccine-wales-mark-drakeford-19645075.amp

So Drakeford would rather give out the vaccine slowly until we get more doses instead of getting as many done in as short a time all so the workers in the vaccination centres aren't standing around doing nothing? Yeah let more people contract Covid because they weren't vaccinated early enough just so people aren't bored sitting on their arses, makes perfect sense that
Yep it's an odd one, the question I would be asking though is why haven't Wales received enough of the Oxford Vaccine?  Johnson playing politics with people's lives?


Edit, it seems it is an issue with one batch of the Oxford vaccine failing the regulators approval so 26,000 doses down this week but this batch should arrive next week


https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/coronavirus-vaccine-wales-doses-delay-19644872
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 10:41:19 am by Wabaloolah »
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Offline Lee0-3Liv

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47913 on: January 18, 2021, 11:00:57 am »
Nice to see the Irish Times trying to kick up a fuss because a hospital in Dublin vaccinated 16 staff relatives instead of wasting the vaccine.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coombe-hospital-chief-deeply-regrets-that-staff-relatives-were-given-covid-vaccines-1.4460733

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47914 on: January 18, 2021, 11:25:13 am »
Not sure if we’ll ever get an answer to that. What’s becoming more clear though is that the seafood market in Wuhan was most likely not the site of the initial outbreak and merely just the first example of a superspreading event with this virus. Of the initial 50 hospitalisations with covid, a substantial number had no contact with the market (though of course many did so the initial thoughts were it originated there).

Current thinking is that this coronavirus jumped from bats to pangolins, back to bats and then to humans. Though there may be a missing link between that final jump from bats to humans. Finding that link could be key to figuring out where and when this might have started spreading in humans.

The possibility is there that the bat to pangolin and back to bat had occurred a while ago. And that the final bat to human could have occurred in a research setting. There’s a theory that it may also have been spreading at a low level for many months although went unnoticed as it was it was less lethal. Genetic analysis so far suggests that a change in the virus doesn’t support that. It doesn’t rule out that it was spreading at a low level for months though and went unnoticed until clusters of pneumonia were seen due to distinct super spreading events like the seafood market. I would think that it was spreading for a while in Wuhan in the later months of 2019. Did it come from a lab leak? I’m not sure, I’d put myself at 70/30 that it didn’t at the moment.


Probably, as you describe, it was likely first observed in clusters around July 2019. Maybe brought in and cultivated for study; perhaps then poor procedures or containment or carelessness caused it to escape. It's all pointless speculation, but it wouldn't be the first time a situation has been made worse due to lax procedures or poor handling.

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47915 on: January 18, 2021, 11:39:43 am »
Not sure if we’ll ever get an answer to that. What’s becoming more clear though is that the seafood market in Wuhan was most likely not the site of the initial outbreak and merely just the first example of a superspreading event with this virus. Of the initial 50 hospitalisations with covid, a substantial number had no contact with the market (though of course many did so the initial thoughts were it originated there).

Current thinking is that this coronavirus jumped from bats to pangolins, back to bats and then to humans. Though there may be a missing link between that final jump from bats to humans. Finding that link could be key to figuring out where and when this might have started spreading in humans.

The possibility is there that the bat to pangolin and back to bat had occurred a while ago. And that the final bat to human could have occurred in a research setting. There’s a theory that it may also have been spreading at a low level for many months although went unnoticed as it was it was less lethal. Genetic analysis so far suggests that a change in the virus doesn’t support that. It doesn’t rule out that it was spreading at a low level for months though and went unnoticed until clusters of pneumonia were seen due to distinct super spreading events like the seafood market. I would think that it was spreading for a while in Wuhan in the later months of 2019. Did it come from a lab leak? I’m not sure, I’d put myself at 70/30 that it didn’t at the moment.

I don't know enough about the virology side of things but would be surprised if it was circulating as mild disease and then suddenly there was variation enough to cause such a change in clinical picture. Anyone who has vaguely looked after patients with viral pneumonia before will agree the illness caused by covid 19 is quite distinct so to suddenly go from mild to that would be, I would've thought, unlikely . But I dunno
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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47916 on: January 18, 2021, 11:54:16 am »
I don't know enough about the virology side of things but would be surprised if it was circulating as mild disease and then suddenly there was variation enough to cause such a change in clinical picture. Anyone who has vaguely looked after patients with viral pneumonia before will agree the illness caused by covid 19 is quite distinct so to suddenly go from mild to that would be, I would've thought, unlikely . But I dunno

The problem with any possible scenario is the secrecy of the Chinese government, it’s not exactly open and honest about what goes on so, don’t forget they tried to suppress the very exist of the virus at first, so wouldn’t put anything past them in terms of how long the virus has been in circulation, never mind anything more sinister.

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47917 on: January 18, 2021, 12:20:34 pm »
Don't know if this has been posted but just sent the link by the Covid-19 Vaccine Research Registry, and it's a good simple thing to show anyone who says they are worried the vaccine has been rushed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpIsvIWJ5u4&t&_cldee=bG91ZXR0ZUBpbmt5cG90LmNvbQ%3D%3D&recipientid=lead-742f640ad657eb11bb24000d3a86b7aa-092bcaea5928427e89142d1e39c70991&esid=652fe974-7759-eb11-a812-000d3a0cebf8

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47918 on: January 18, 2021, 12:27:19 pm »
I don't know enough about the virology side of things but would be surprised if it was circulating as mild disease and then suddenly there was variation enough to cause such a change in clinical picture. Anyone who has vaguely looked after patients with viral pneumonia before will agree the illness caused by covid 19 is quite distinct so to suddenly go from mild to that would be, I would've thought, unlikely . But I dunno
Yea I'd agree, there's no evidence at all that supports it circulating as a less mild form. On the contrary, the lack of much genetic diversity within the original samples taken points to the opposite - that this began with a variant of SARS-CoV-2 that was identified very shortly after it began to circulate in people.

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47919 on: January 18, 2021, 01:02:52 pm »
Nice to see the Irish Times trying to kick up a fuss because a hospital in Dublin vaccinated 16 staff relatives instead of wasting the vaccine.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coombe-hospital-chief-deeply-regrets-that-staff-relatives-were-given-covid-vaccines-1.4460733

Ideally they wouldn't do relatives but it's way better than dumping them. Huge fuss that deflects from important news.