Author Topic: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE  (Read 2235836 times)

Offline A-Bomb

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Offline A-Bomb

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47561 on: January 15, 2021, 01:04:50 am »
Can anyone with more information please message me, i'm determined to put a factual website together to share this info

Offline kavah

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47563 on: January 15, 2021, 08:42:17 am »
6pm curfew on its way next

Really.

I how will that be enforced? And how when vaccine centres are under pressure to open 24/7 does that make sense.

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47564 on: January 15, 2021, 08:49:37 am »
Curfew makes no sense, it would just condense people into shops during a much smaller window which is no good for anyone.

And would result in more people needing to go to the shop more regularly as takeaways would be rendered pretty much obsolete.
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Offline Ashburton

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47565 on: January 15, 2021, 09:36:25 am »
Curfew makes no sense, it would just condense people into shops during a much smaller window which is no good for anyone.

I can see it making sense but I do wonder what compliance levels look like - the proponents of it would say it is intended to make life easier for the police by making enforcement more simple, because anyone outside their home needs a reasonable excuse to be there outside of those hours.

In a broader sense if there is legs in implementing a curfew then you'd have to believe it's a response to particular transgressions and is intended to desperately force the R-value down, likely in cities.  The idea that anyone is going to be policing a curfew in a village somewhere, or that dog walkers won't decide their evening stroll is going to be disrupted seems fanciful.

Still some incredibly high rates of transmission in some boroughs of London as of data ending last week so perhaps their thinking is 'what else can we do'.

Offline spen71

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47566 on: January 15, 2021, 09:49:52 am »
Maybe a ten Pm curfew,  6pm does not make
Sense

I shop at night and go for a run too

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47567 on: January 15, 2021, 09:54:46 am »
I highly doubt there will be a curfew, especially a 6pm one.  It's nonsense.

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47568 on: January 15, 2021, 09:55:07 am »
Whatís the point of a curfew if they want to vaccinate 24/7?

Think the 24/7 thing is more news media than anything else, and initially I thought the same - lets go for it all guns blazing.

But in terms of practicalities remember you're dealing with older people, we're only seeing the first 14.4m people at this stage and that's the over 70 group and the clinically vulnerable.  Asking that lot to tip up at 3am in the middle of a freezing cold winter night is just asking for issues.

- Gritting road runs on its own schedule and getting to a regional vaccination hub might involve a fair drive.  Probably not best to do this at 1 in the morning.
- Waiting should be done in open air if possible.  Less ideal having old people stood outside in the cold at night time.
- Volunteers need training and it's probably easier to have a regular group of volunteers turn up during the 7-7 timeslot then go home
- Car park management.  You're dealing with old people so again, grit the car parks, don't hit anyone when you're driving around with your windows steamed up.
- Security: old people are extremely security conscious, so getting them out of the house after dark might be an ask, nevermind driving somewhere new.
- Logistics and availability:  the big one, once these centres are open do we have enough stock to keep up with the demand to run 24/7

Overall I'd say it's worth doing a vaccination centre trial and run 24/7 to see the practicalities of it, but this seems like something which the 16-50 age group would be all over but perhaps the more senior lot just aren't quite as able to turn up in the middle of the night to get a jab, particularly in rural areas.



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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47569 on: January 15, 2021, 09:56:25 am »
Maybe a ten Pm curfew,  6pm does not make
Sense

I shop at night and go for a run too

Aye. Not everyone works 9-5. My mate works phones for the council and can do shifts 8 till 4 or 2 till 10 and in between.

If you go to Tesco at 8pm, and you're stopped, how do you price it? Anybody can carry a few plastic bags around with them.
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Offline le_boss

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47570 on: January 15, 2021, 09:56:38 am »
What happens if we vaccinate half the population by May only for another variant to appear much different to the original strain?  Are we back to square one with those people needing re-vaccinated.

I ask as covid-19 seems to be able to mutate significantly

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47571 on: January 15, 2021, 09:59:59 am »
What happens if we vaccinate half the population by May only for another variant to appear much different to the original strain?  Are we back to square one with those people needing re-vaccinated.

I ask as covid-19 seems to be able to mutate significantly

I wouldn't worry about that unless it happens. No need to borrow trouble and fret about hypotheticals.

As I understand it, it's rare for a virus to mutate into a more dangerous form? The new strains are more virulent and seem just as deadly though, so maybe I'm wrong.
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Offline irc65

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47572 on: January 15, 2021, 10:07:16 am »
Can anyone with more information please message me, i'm determined to put a factual website together to share this info
Hi

The Public Accounts Committee website may be a good place to start. They have done a number of inquiries about Government spending during the pandemic.

 https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/127/public-accounts-committee/

Offline Lusty

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47573 on: January 15, 2021, 10:28:09 am »
Can anyone who has information on where our tax payers money has been spent for COVID by this government please message me....i'm going to set up a website explaining this.
Have a look at the Good Law project, they're taking legal action on this amongst other things.

Also the National Audit Office reports have the detail you're looking for.

I suspect that what you're trying to do has been done before so I'd have a hunt around first.

Offline redbyrdz

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47574 on: January 15, 2021, 10:31:39 am »
Aye. Not everyone works 9-5. My mate works phones for the council and can do shifts 8 till 4 or 2 till 10 and in between.

If you go to Tesco at 8pm, and you're stopped, how do you price it? Anybody can carry a few plastic bags around with them.

Even if you work until 5pm, you often don't make it home before 6pm. So work travel would probably have to be exempt. Similaly you must be able to travel for medical reasons whatever the time.

I could see them replace the "stay at home" wording with "curfew", withe same exemptions as currently in place. That might have mainly legal implications - there are probably laws relating to curfews, but not to "stay at home". The other impact is the wording - "curfew" just sounds stronger than "please stay at home".


Whether shops will be able to stay open after 6pm (or whenever) is worth a debate - I think the longer the shopping hours, the less peoppe in the shop at the same time. On the other hand, just nipping to the shop is an easy excuse if you're found outside.
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Offline Ashburton

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47575 on: January 15, 2021, 10:31:56 am »
Maybe a ten Pm curfew,  6pm does not make
Sense

I shop at night and go for a run too

Same Spen, I'm not ditching my evening run, especially when exercise is so important for health.  But looking at the recent transmission data we're seeing not only high levels of transmission, but that transmission moving into the more elderly population which is going to filter through to hospitalisations.  The government probably thinks if there is another gear they can go up they need to use it, and as much as curfews feel 'un-British' they are a clear signal of how desperate things are getting.

Positive test number don't tell the full story, but the age ranges of those positives indicate who is likely to show up to hospital in the next two weeks.  We're seeing a shift to a larger number of elderly both in absolute numbers and as a proportion of the total (likely also due to school closures but notice the drop in 20-29 cohort)



Regional variation (via upper tier local authority data in England):



Some interesting discussion points from the following



Which would indicate as hospitalisations per case are down by 50% that a large amount of people staying at home and fighting this in the community, and hospitals being at the point of accepting desatting patients only (or on the cusp of).  We're seeing half of those who would have attended hospital in Nov not be admitted which may be why we're seeing higher death rates come through - from deaths in the community or those who only get admitted very late.

Considering time to death from a Covid infection is circa 3 weeks and we're dealing with lagged data, agree we haven't yet seen the worst of this for probably 3 more weeks by the time the data comes through.  Particularly as we're at hospital capacity now so any further infections will need to be dealt with in the community and escalated very late.

Offline le_boss

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47576 on: January 15, 2021, 10:44:03 am »
I wouldn't worry about that unless it happens. No need to borrow trouble and fret about hypotheticals.

As I understand it, it's rare for a virus to mutate into a more dangerous form? The new strains are more virulent and seem just as deadly though, so maybe I'm wrong.

I guess the worry is that its not more dangerous just different enough for the vaccines not to recognise it

Offline TipTopKop

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47577 on: January 15, 2021, 10:45:52 am »

Offline Ashburton

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47578 on: January 15, 2021, 10:47:10 am »
What happens if we vaccinate half the population by May only for another variant to appear much different to the original strain?  Are we back to square one with those people needing re-vaccinated.

I ask as covid-19 seems to be able to mutate significantly

Short version is that we're in a far better position now than we were in March '20 when it comes to dealing with a new version of Covid, and the pharma companies indicate it is a matter of weeks for them to reformulate a new vaccine now that the technology is tested and in use.

Also it's highly unlikely by May we'll be seeing re-infections from those vaccinated at the start of the year as you'll likely see high levels of reinfection protection so close to vaccination, something which tapers off over time.  What we saw from the NHS data release (the largest reinfection study to date) this week was (from memory) a near 80% reduction in probability of reinfection once you have already caught the virus and a reduction in severity.  Vaccination should give similar protection.   Believe we're only starting to see papers come out on this and figuring out just how similar coronaviruses are to flu in evading the immune system.  If you're really interested on this I'll be able to put together a more detailed comment on this probably after the weekend as I haven't digested it all yet.

(Further reading) for those interested in a more in-depth answer.

Offline redbyrdz

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47579 on: January 15, 2021, 10:51:55 am »

I shop at night and go for a run too

Yep same here.

Just decided I need to make more of an effort to leave the house once a day. Tracked my steps for a day where I was working on site, and one wfh. Nearly 9000 steps when on site,  and it wasn't even a particularly active one. But wfh, I hardly made 1000 steps! That lack of movement can't be good for your health.

I do ride my bike indoors too, but I'm not convinced it makes up for the lack of general movement that you get from just being out and about
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Offline redbyrdz

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47580 on: January 15, 2021, 10:59:33 am »
Believe we're only starting to see papers come out on this and figuring out just how similar coronaviruses are to flu in evading the immune system.  If you're really interested on this I'll be able to put together a more detailed comment on this probably after the weekend as I haven't digested it all yet.

(Further reading) for those interested in a more in-depth answer.

Ah that is interesting. I was always thinking that we probably don't know much about thinks like duration of immunity, infectiousness while "immune" etc, for viruses that cause "just a common cold". I can see how there was never much research funding available for these things - low interest, and as they would be clinical studies, high costs. Covid has changed that.

I also still believe that we won't continue to accept the high annual fatality rates from flu, once we get on top of covid
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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47581 on: January 15, 2021, 11:10:40 am »
Apparently one of the Brazilian variants is also in the UK. What is it with us and keeping borders open?

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47582 on: January 15, 2021, 11:29:06 am »
Apparently one of the Brazilian variants is also in the UK. What is it with us and keeping borders open?

Ironic isn't it for the party of Brexit and limiting freedom of movement etc
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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47583 on: January 15, 2021, 11:29:50 am »
Apparently my coeliac disease might qualify me as vulnerable and mean I qualify into group 6 which is very surprising as itís an autoimmune reaction caused by gluten, donít get me wrong itís not a nice thing to have but itís not something youíd usually associate with being classed as vulnerable, so Iíd suggest anyone whose keen to get vaccinate but not likely to get vaccinated anytime soon to read up on the conditions that qualify for being vulnerable, you might be surprised.

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47584 on: January 15, 2021, 11:32:47 am »
I highly doubt there will be a curfew, especially a 6pm one.  It's nonsense.

Pointless anyway when millions are still forced to go out to work through the day.

There's nothing even open after 6, apart from food shopping, in which case people going out later for essential shopping means they're less busy earlier in the day. Throughout this i've either shopped first thing in the morning or late evening.
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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47585 on: January 15, 2021, 11:42:54 am »

I also still believe that we won't continue to accept the high annual fatality rates from flu, once we get on top of covid

I might be wrong but I'm sure I've read in other countries annual flu shots are more widespread than just being reserved for the old and the sick (courtesty of free NHS) than they are here

I don't know if numbers back this up, it's just I was reading a thread on a different site and American users were talking about getting one since they were kids and that you're stupid if you don't get one. Even though obviously here and I think maybe the rest of Europe too it's just not really a thing to get one unless you're in the at risk group

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47586 on: January 15, 2021, 11:47:52 am »
I might be wrong but I'm sure I've read in other countries annual flu shots are more widespread than just being reserved for the old and the sick (courtesty of free NHS) than they are here

I don't know if numbers back this up, it's just I was reading a thread on a different site and American users were talking about getting one since they were kids and that you're stupid if you don't get one. Even though obviously here and I think maybe the rest of Europe too it's just not really a thing to get one unless you're in the at risk group

If youíve ever had the misfortune to watch a US stream or TV channel youíll see they have a very different attitude to drugs and medication then we do, and Iíd suggest that in a country where you pay for medical treatments thereís a temptation to give out more medication then is required because itís more profitable for the care providers.

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47587 on: January 15, 2021, 11:54:05 am »
I might be wrong but I'm sure I've read in other countries annual flu shots are more widespread than just being reserved for the old and the sick (courtesty of free NHS) than they are here

I don't know if numbers back this up, it's just I was reading a thread on a different site and American users were talking about getting one since they were kids and that you're stupid if you don't get one. Even though obviously here and I think maybe the rest of Europe too it's just not really a thing to get one unless you're in the at risk group

I'm not sure if cost of the flu jab really is that much of a issue. I think I paid less than £10 for mine, and it's a once a year thing. Surely most people can afford that, it's probably more a case of  as it's not provided by the NHS free of charge, its deemed not neccessary by many.
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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47588 on: January 15, 2021, 12:04:30 pm »
Apparently my coeliac disease might qualify me as vulnerable and mean I qualify into group 6 which is very surprising as itís an autoimmune reaction caused by gluten, donít get me wrong itís not a nice thing to have but itís not something youíd usually associate with being classed as vulnerable, so Iíd suggest anyone whose keen to get vaccinate but not likely to get vaccinated anytime soon to read up on the conditions that qualify for being vulnerable, you might be surprised.
Makes sense....

One of the issues with covid seems to be the way the bodies immune system can ďover reactĒ to the virus.  If you have an auto immune issue, I can see why that is potentially a greater risk.
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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47589 on: January 15, 2021, 12:09:38 pm »
Iíve an auto immune disorder (pernicious anemia) and not heard anything about being in a more at risk group or being likely to get a vaccination earlier.

Where have you seen this info WLR?

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« Reply #47590 on: January 15, 2021, 12:25:03 pm »
You do all realise you're applying normal persons logic to something the decision makers won't ever have to have dealt with, ever in their lives.


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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47591 on: January 15, 2021, 12:27:44 pm »
Even if you work until 5pm, you often don't make it home before 6pm. So work travel would probably have to be exempt. Similaly you must be able to travel for medical reasons whatever the time.

I could see them replace the "stay at home" wording with "curfew", withe same exemptions as currently in place. That might have mainly legal implications - there are probably laws relating to curfews, but not to "stay at home". The other impact is the wording - "curfew" just sounds stronger than "please stay at home".


Whether shops will be able to stay open after 6pm (or whenever) is worth a debate - I think the longer the shopping hours, the less peoppe in the shop at the same time. On the other hand, just nipping to the shop is an easy excuse if you're found outside.

Yep same here.

Just decided I need to make more of an effort to leave the house once a day. Tracked my steps for a day where I was working on site, and one wfh. Nearly 9000 steps when on site,  and it wasn't even a particularly active one. But wfh, I hardly made 1000 steps! That lack of movement can't be good for your health.

I do ride my bike indoors too, but I'm not convinced it makes up for the lack of general movement that you get from just being out and about

Good points.

They say you generally need about 10k steps a day.  As I don't work (mentally disabled), getting to 10k isn't usually an issue for me, but it's still equals at least 90 minutes walking each day. That's a long time to be out when you're literally just walking in a big circle back to your home.

I just walked to a cafe in Greenbank park and back for a bacon buttie and a coffee, largely to get steps in.  Freezing cold but at least it wasn't raining, but I'm still on less than 9k for the day.  That's an evening trip to Tesco for a bunch of bananas or a couple of bottles of craft beer, or just a walk around the block.  And you betcha I will do something, because my mental health needs it.

Would be mad to force supermarkets to close early to meet some kind of "curfew" deadline; the earliest you could reasonably expect would be 9pm.
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« Reply #47592 on: January 15, 2021, 12:31:02 pm »
I managed to work out how to apply to volunteer for the vaccination program.   Passed the initial checks

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« Reply #47593 on: January 15, 2021, 12:45:13 pm »
Maybe a ten Pm curfew,  6pm does not make
Sense

I shop at night and go for a run too

One pm curfew would be more suitable with that pm being Boris.
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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47594 on: January 15, 2021, 12:45:25 pm »
Makes sense....

One of the issues with covid seems to be the way the bodies immune system can ďover reactĒ to the virus.  If you have an auto immune issue, I can see why that is potentially a greater risk.

I know, itís just surprising because the autoimmune response usually results in the two bob bits if I eat gluten and thats resulted in me hopefully getting vaccinated sooner rather then later. Reading up on it, sufferers of coeliac disease have a higher chance of having issues with the spleen but itís very rare they check your spleen apparently (mine has never been checked), and itís the potential weakened spleen activity why we would be classed as being vulnerable

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47595 on: January 15, 2021, 12:50:24 pm »
Iíve an auto immune disorder (pernicious anemia) and not heard anything about being in a more at risk group or being likely to get a vaccination earlier.

Where have you seen this info WLR?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-the-green-book-chapter-14a?fbclid=IwAR34Lf8suqQjiJHrl5-ZSIcqM3pH8FBl7gedkxbKVGD4mHcglCSIBM6luAI

Take a look at this link and then the green book, thereís a table in there with the conditions that qualify as vulnerable.

To be clear, none of this has come from my GP or anyone like that. Coeliac UK which represents people with Coeliac disease has updated its members that they are included based on the green book, thatís all.

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47596 on: January 15, 2021, 01:00:32 pm »
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-the-green-book-chapter-14a?fbclid=IwAR34Lf8suqQjiJHrl5-ZSIcqM3pH8FBl7gedkxbKVGD4mHcglCSIBM6luAI

Take a look at this link and then the green book, thereís a table in there with the conditions that qualify as vulnerable.

To be clear, none of this has come from my GP or anyone like that. Coeliac UK which represents people with Coeliac disease has updated its members that they are included based on the green book, thatís all.

According to that table I'm in the at risk group.  I'm a Carer.
"If you can't say anything nice, don't say nothing at all"  Thumper (1942)

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47597 on: January 15, 2021, 01:09:03 pm »
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-the-green-book-chapter-14a?fbclid=IwAR34Lf8suqQjiJHrl5-ZSIcqM3pH8FBl7gedkxbKVGD4mHcglCSIBM6luAI

Take a look at this link and then the green book, thereís a table in there with the conditions that qualify as vulnerable.

To be clear, none of this has come from my GP or anyone like that. Coeliac UK which represents people with Coeliac disease has updated its members that they are included based on the green book, thatís all.

Ah OK so itís more because of potential spleen issues more so than just because of an auto-immune disorder.

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47598 on: January 15, 2021, 01:12:54 pm »
Ah OK so itís more because of potential spleen issues more so than just because of an auto-immune disorder.

Yup. They have never said anything about my spleen and as far as I am aware itís working fine, but if having Coeliac disease can blag me an earlier vaccination Iím not saying no to it!

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Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47599 on: January 15, 2021, 01:20:18 pm »
Yup. They have never said anything about my spleen and as far as I am aware itís working fine, but if having Coeliac disease can blag me an earlier vaccination Iím not saying no to it!

Donít blame you. Iíd be doing the same.