Topic: Doesn't matter who you vote for as long as it's for the right reasons!

[Yorkykopite]

Ah yeah I remember reading that at the time now. I think it is only fair to say that that is her side of the story, and that Owen Jones has denied that he leaked the letter, and that he wrote it (though his name was added to it).

Without going back and reading her piece that triggered it, I don't really have a problem with the letter in principle to be honest, if someone was writing (fpr example) racist pieces for the paper I worked for I would want that to stop and I wouldn't consider that trying to censure a work colleague.

It is her side of the story of course - and I bet she was burning to tell it. It's hugely persuasive. What is the other side of the story? The letter itself. A sneaky and cowardly enterprise by any standards. Owen Jones may not have leaked it, but that's neither here nor there (Personally I'd have felt more kindly towards him if he had leaked the thing. More honest. Less sneaky). Racism, by the way, had nothing to do with it.

It was all about...transphobia of course. Today's Times carries another witch-hunt story on this issue. Behind the paywall alas.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rector-at-edinburgh-university-feared-for-her-safety-in-trans-row-sr9vr3z99?utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=newsletter_101&utm_medium=email&utm_content=101_13795428&CMP=TNLEmail_7172239_13795428_101

A former rector of Edinburgh University has said that she feared for her own safety on campus after students falsely accused her of transphobia.

Ann Henderson, whose three-year term as rector ended in February, said she was subjected to a sustained campaign of abuse and attempts to silence her after she called for a reasoned debate on gender recognition reforms.

[Elmo!]

It is her side of the story of course - and I bet she was burning to tell it. It's hugely persuasive. What is the other side of the story? The letter itself. A sneaky and cowardly enterprise by any standards. Owen Jones may not have leaked it, but that's neither here nor there (Personally I'd have felt more kindly towards him if he had leaked the thing. More honest. Less sneaky). Racism, by the way, had nothing to do with it.

It was all about...transphobia of course. Today's Times carries another witch-hunt story on this issue. Behind the paywall alas.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rector-at-edinburgh-university-feared-for-her-safety-in-trans-row-sr9vr3z99?utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=newsletter_101&utm_medium=email&utm_content=101_13795428&CMP=TNLEmail_7172239_13795428_101

A former rector of Edinburgh University has said that she feared for her own safety on campus after students falsely accused her of transphobia.

Ann Henderson, whose three-year term as rector ended in February, said she was subjected to a sustained campaign of abuse and attempts to silence her after she called for a reasoned debate on gender recognition reforms.

I know racism was nothing to do with it, that's why I said "for example". My point was that if you put aside for a second whether you think Moore was actually being transphobic or bigoted, if you (and many of your colleagues) hold a genuine belief that your employer is putting out material which is racist, or transphobic, or homophobic, I don't think trying to do something about that by sending a letter is "trying to censure a colleague". They didn't even say anything about a specific piece or writer in the letter. Some of the other behaviour she describes apart from the letter though I do agree is out of order.

There's loads of nastiness on both sides of the debate though - the actor and trans rights actor David Paisley recently had to move out of his house - even though it had already been put on the polices rapid response list due to threats received - out of fear for his safety.

[Snail]

There's loads of nastiness on both sides of the debate though - the actor and trans rights actor David Paisley recently had to move out of his house - even though it had already been put on the polices rapid response list due to threats received - out of fear for his safety.

And then Rosie Duffield MP liked a tweet taking the piss out of him.

[Yorkykopite]

They didn't even say anything about a specific piece or writer in the letter.

Again, I see this as a problem not a mitigation. It's the general charge, the innuendo, the inability to quote anything that might at least allow a reasoned defence. "You're guilty, but we wont say why."

[Dr. Beaker]

The High Court has just found the Government acted unlawfully when awarding a half a million pound contract to a company owned by friends of Cummings without considering other companies. I hope they are as trustworthy when dealing with dodgy practices by current government ministers.

[Zeb]

How would this translate to seats in parliament at the moment?

Electoral Calculus is the first to have a go, but seems ballpark to chatter elsewhere when you make a couple of adjustments.

Tories: 357 (+12)
Labour: 178 (-2)
Lib Dems: 7 (=)
Green: 1 (=)

If you take Scotland into it then it's likely Tories will be down 1 there, and if you add in anything up to a handful in Wales (Welsh boundaries changing is almost certainly going to be Labour gains, just how many at the Tories' expense the question) then you get the Tories up somewhere between half a dozen and a dozen from the 2019 boundaries.

[Wild Romany Boy]

And then Rosie Duffield MP liked a tweet taking the piss out of him.

Suspect she'll be gone in the next election. She started well but it has been downhill rapidly since.

[Snail]

Suspect she'll be gone in the next election. She started well but it has been downhill rapidly since.

If I remember rightly the only reason she got in was a massive effort from students and then she promptly decided to piss it all away.

[Elmo!]

If I remember rightly the only reason she got in was a massive effort from students and then she promptly decided to piss it all away.

Ah, the Nick Clegg method of destroying your reputation. 

[thaddeus]

Ah, the Nick Clegg method of destroying your reputation. 

Political career.  He's picking up Ł600k/year for whatever it is he does at Facebook.

[Elmo!]

Political career.  He's picking up Ł600k/year for whatever it is he does at Facebook.

Yeah I realised that was a bad word choice and got a sneaky edit in before you hit quote.. 

[Zeb]

Duffield increased her vote by 3.5k in 2019. Majority up by nearly 2k.

[Snail]

Duffield increased her vote by 3.5k in 2019. Majority up by nearly 2k.

Good for her.

[thaddeus]

Yeah I realised that was a bad word choice and got a sneaky edit in before you hit quote.. 

I thought I was going mad 

[Zeb]

Good for her.

I'm glad you're celebrating electoral success stories.

[Yorkykopite]

Duffield increased her vote by 3.5k in 2019. Majority up by nearly 2k.

Yeah, but they're just facts.

[Snail]

I'm glad you're celebrating electoral success stories.

I'd celebrate her being kicked out of the party, sadly there seems to be a blind spot when it comes to transphobia as I'm sure you're all well aware.

[Yorkykopite]

I'd celebrate her being kicked out of the party, sadly there seems to be a blind spot when it comes to transphobia as I'm sure you're all well aware.

This exemplifies the attitude that would kill the Labour party if it ever became its common practice. (The "kicking out" not the "celebrating").

[Zeb]

I'd celebrate her being kicked out of the party, sadly there seems to be a blind spot when it comes to transphobia as I'm sure you're all well aware.

I certainly don't believe running round shouting 'terf' achieves much of a lot in a debate which becomes incredibly toxic at the drop of a hat and when realistic changes for the better vanish in the resulting flames. Wishing for the Greens to split the vote and replace someone willing to see through some changes for an MP who will happily let one call them all sorts of things as they play to a different audience at one's own expense seems bizarre logic. There are better ways to have this discussion. There are better ways to improve lives than to push a small and vulnerable minority who go through far too much into the centre of this shitshow.

[TheShanklyGates]

Queen's portrait removed after vote by Oxford University students

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-57409743

And the culture wars rage on.

[ianburns252]

Queen's portrait removed after vote by Oxford University students

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-57409743

And the culture wars rage on.

It is sheer madness that it is even news!

I could understand it being of interest were it to be something that had hung in the corridors of the college for 100 years and someone had taken it down in protest but this is a portrait that had been there less than a decade, in the common room, that future students didn't want in the common room and it has been stored safely.

The Guardian headline on it made it seem like a much bigger deal but it is nothing to get excited over

[Zeb]

The problem as I see it is that the debate only seems to become “toxic” when trans people or activists on the side of trans people speak out, whereas deliberately inflammatory comments from the other side are seen as fair game and valid. It’s a mess, sure, but like Siân says, there is a blind spot and a lot of people unwilling to recognise their contribution to said mess. Look at this thread in the last 24 hours as an example - Elmo points out David Paisley having to move house out of fear and it is met with radio silence, with people only piping up once Rosie Duffield is mentioned.

I have to confess I have absolutely no idea who David Paisley is and had to google the story from last week to discover who he is and what he does. We may differ on the meaning of my blind spot but I also had to google Holby City, River City, and Tinsel Town. 

[Dr. Beaker]

No comments about Starmer asking the PM a question about Palestine then. And I was thinking we could all rally together.

[Yorkykopite]

Spot on. It’s also funny to me how the same people who will loudly seek to protect freedom of speech in every which way are unable to handle it playing out as intended when it results in something they don’t agree with.

Very true.

There are snowflakes on all sides of this so-called culture war. People feeling offended at absolute trivia. Wanting to "cancel" folks for using the wrong word or making the wrong expression. In fact going out of their way to feel offended, as those who trawl though the twitter accounts of international cricketers for something - anything - they might have said when they were a kid. "I need to be outraged. Please help me!". Others wanting to show their patriotic virtue by flying the frigging flag at every opportunity and feeling offended (again) if someone does not share their enthusiasm. It's left-wing, it's right-wing, but really it's all the same. Look at me, I'm virtuous! You aren't!

You cannot build a a just society, or even a society, on this rampantly individualistic performative nonsense.

[Dr. Beaker]

Very true.

There are snowflakes on all sides of this so-called culture war. People feeling offended at absolute trivia. Wanting to "cancel" folks for using the wrong word or making the wrong expression. In fact going out of their way to feel offended, as those who trawl though the twitter accounts of international cricketers for something - anything - they might have said when they were a kid. "I need to be outraged. Please help me!". Others wanting to show their patriotic virtue by flying the frigging flag at every opportunity and feeling offended (again) if someone does not share their enthusiasm. It's left-wing, it's right-wing, but really it's all the same. Look at me, I'm virtuous! You aren't!

You cannot build a a just society, or even a society, on this rampantly individualistic performative nonsense.

Thank fuck there's no one on here like that.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Thank fuck there's no one on here like that.

[J_Kopite]

Very true.

There are snowflakes on all sides of this so-called culture war. People feeling offended at absolute trivia. Wanting to "cancel" folks for using the wrong word or making the wrong expression. In fact going out of their way to feel offended, as those who trawl though the twitter accounts of international cricketers for something - anything - they might have said when they were a kid. "I need to be outraged. Please help me!". Others wanting to show their patriotic virtue by flying the frigging flag at every opportunity and feeling offended (again) if someone does not share their enthusiasm. It's left-wing, it's right-wing, but really it's all the same. Look at me, I'm virtuous! You aren't!

You cannot build a a just society, or even a society, on this rampantly individualistic performative nonsense.

Whilst what you say is true, I reserve the right to be outraged at Andy's shite thread titles.

[Jiminy Cricket]

This is a very fair point. One big thing I’ve been coming to terms with over the last year or so is how I’m still able to make my own judgements and have my own personal red lines on any number of issues without getting myself too worked up over it. I still have my moments, some things I’m passionately opposed to and it spills over, but the best way for me to build on my own personal belief system is to focus more on what I’m standing for rather than against.

We need to keep lines open for dialogue. I too have probably mellowed over the years. It is not that I have fundamentally changed my views. Rather, it is acceptance that - within reasonable bounds - people genuinely hold differing views and there are few matters where there are true black and white, wrong and right answers. We have far too many people, on all sides, who are now willing to defend anything they perceive being in support of their team. Politics is not football.

[Yorkykopite]

Whilst what you say is true, I reserve the right to be outraged at Andy's shite thread titles.

Good point.

[Nobby Reserve]

I'd celebrate her being kicked out of the party, sadly there seems to be a blind spot when it comes to transphobia as I'm sure you're all well aware.

It isn't transphobia (as in, Duffield, Moore, Rowling and countless others are not against trans people)

[Dr. Beaker]

We need to keep lines open for dialogue. I too have probably mellowed over the years. It is not that I have fundamentally changed my views. Rather, it is acceptance that - within reasonable bounds - people genuinely hold differing and there are few matters where there are true black and white, wrong and right answers. We have far too many people, on all sides, who are now willing to defend anything so long they perceive as being in support of their team. Politics is not football.

Well said. Our perspective changes as we get older, and mostly we mellow. We don't all become Tories! 'The child is father of the man'.

[TepidT2O]

The fucking cheek of this rubber faced c*nt.

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson twice says that children of wealthy parents have access to private tutoring "because of their parents' hard work".

PM: "The kids of well-off parents - thanks to their hard work - have been able to rely on private tutoring. What the government is now doing is coming in on the side of all the other kids who don't get access to that tutoring."

How much have schools actually got??

My school?

13 minutes per student.

Level that playing field you utter twat

[ShakaHislop]

New Starmer’s latest ratings similar to Corbyn at same point…
Net satisfaction with leaders of the opposition 14 months in:
Starmer -29
Corbyn -29
Miliband -16
Cameron -3
Howard -26
IDS -27
Hague -23
Blair +26 (yes that is +26)
Smith -4
Kinnock -19
Foot -40

Fieldwork: 28th May - 3rd June

https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1402191803328106499

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/starmers-ratings-fall-further-now-same-levels-corbyn-14-months

[west_london_red]

The fucking cheek of this rubber faced c*nt.


How much have schools actually got??

My school?

13 minutes per student.

Level that playing field you utter twat

Shocking isn’t it.... only it isn’t. It’s exactly what I’d expect him to say.

How can people, working people who do the hardest jobs, continue to vote for someone whose shows such contempt for their efforts? Then I think, you know what fuck ‘em. If they are stupid enough to vote for someone who has such a low opinion of them then they get all they deserve and then some. Just a shame so many others end up suffering at the same time through no fault of their own. Utterly depressing.

[Yorkykopite]

The fucking cheek of this rubber faced c*nt.


How much have schools actually got??

My school?

13 minutes per student.

Level that playing field you utter twat

Quite so.

Notice the tell-tale "thanks to their hard work" to describe what is reality class privilege. The old discredited myth that children at British public schools simply have parents who work harder than others.

[OOS]

Fieldwork: 28th May - 3rd June

https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1402191803328106499

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/starmers-ratings-fall-further-now-same-levels-corbyn-14-months

He should go if it doesn't improve by the new year... he seems very Millibandesque, and that's not a good thing. Just terrified of who will come after him, there doesn't seem to be anyone lurking in the background ready-made. I wanted Yvette back in 2015, but that ship has sailed. I like Nandy and voted for her in 2019, but i don't think she has the appeal across the party. Hes stopped the rot, but we really need to kick on.

[Welshred]

Fieldwork: 28th May - 3rd June

https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1402191803328106499

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/starmers-ratings-fall-further-now-same-levels-corbyn-14-months

It's not looking good is it? The Tories keep extending their lead in the opinion polls somehow. It's getting to the point where I think Labour just need to try and do the things people are telling them are too radical because what they're doing right now just isn't working.

[OOS]

It's not looking good is it? The Tories keep extending their lead in the opinion polls somehow. It's getting to the point where I think Labour just need to try and do the things people are telling them are too radical because what they're doing right now just isn't working.

I do have sympathy due to the circumstances. We have a highly successful vaccine rollout, which has touched all parts of society. The government literally paid millions to sit on their arses all day with furlough (first time my mum has not worked over 50 hours a week doing two jobs in two decades!). Labour have announced some good policy, but they seem incapable of articulating it or the knowhow how to get a hearing. It ain't good.

[Welshred]

I do have sympathy due to the circumstances. We have a highly successful vaccine rollout, which has touched all parts of society. The government literally paid millions to sit on their arses all day with furlough (first time my mum has not worked over 50 hours a week doing two jobs in two decades!). Labour have announced some good policy, but they seem incapable of articulating it or the knowhow how to get a hearing. It ain't good.

In the mean time there has been scandal after scandal that would have finished off any Prime Minister apart from Boris where any other opposition could have just sat back and let the flames engulf the government. Instead it's only strengthened the Tories.

[TepidT2O]

Quite so.

Notice the tell-tale "thanks to their hard work" to describe what is reality class privilege. The old discredited myth that children at British public schools simply have parents who work harder than others.

There’s one window in my school where I can actually see Eton out of…. Across the dreaming spires of Slough….


Imagine giving them 13 minutes one to one tuition….

I’m now expecting all out kids to go to Oxbridge too.