Topic: Burnley Football Club

[El Lobo]

I’m sure there’s a happy medium, but remember the guy in the opening post is a Burnley fan. You’re not just talking safe mid table football, but also the most dull, boring, uninspiring football in the league and an even more boring manager.

[Crosby Nick]

I’m sure there’s a happy medium, but remember the guy in the opening post is a Burnley fan. You’re not just talking safe mid table football, but also the most dull, boring, uninspiring football in the league and an even more boring manager.

That’s true. Brighton and Bournemouth fans are probably happier with their lot because although they struggle at times they at least see some decent stuff occasionally.

[Schmidt]

Why does there need to be a choice between progressing in the cups and avoiding relegation? The cups don't require that many games, progressing in either shouldn't affect the risk of relegation that much.

[Jm55]

I made this point when Dyche made 11 changes for their league cup 3rd round match before playing us, inevitably got battered by Sunderland at home, then played us and lost 3-0.

Fair enough, Dyche obviously was hoping to get something against us, but surely by now you'd expect enough squad development to at least be able to take a league cup 3rd round match at home to Sunderland seriously, Villa are now in the semi finals for example.

It must be soul destroying to watch Dyche basically forfeit matches in a competition that they have an, albeit outside chance, of getting to the latter stages in, in the slim hope of taking points from teams like Liverpool and usually failing.

The trouble for them is that Dyche is a good manager at what he does, keeping teams away from the threat of relegation, and although I think that he will eventually fail in doing that, it may be some time until he does, and they will remain trudging along, achieving the square root of fuck all above avoiding relegation, year after year.

Depressing for them.

[Son of Spion]

Fella at work is a Burnley fan, used to go every week and was a STH. Due to ill health he can't go much anymore, but went v Newcastle. Described it as one of the wrost games of fottball he has ever seen. He was chatting with all his match going mates, all STH's, home and away travellers. Every one of them said they would rather get relegated and at least have the excitement of a battle for promotion, than have no ambition to do any better than just grind out results with nothing more than the aim of making the club money.

We've been dining at the top table my entire life (53 years now), but if we were a club like Burnley, would you prefer want the same as these lads?

To be honest, I'm not sure what I'd prefer in their shoes. I was born in the 60s and started going to Anfield in 1971, so all I've ever known is the epic rollercoaster that supporting Liverpool is. It's been glorious, sometimes tragic too, but never boring. I remember in the 70s as a teenager and thinking how extraordinarily lucky I was to have been born in Liverpool and also be a Liverpool fan as opposed to the other shower. I couldn't believe my good fortune.

I do often wonder if the monotonous drudgery of watching teams like those who endlessly tread water is one of the reasons why so many fans of these clubs follow England? OK, I know England are no great shakes themselves, but following them brings the fans of smaller, water-treading clubs some much needed excitement. It allows those fans to be part of something bigger. To see far away places and get off the hamster wheel that following their clubs usually is. I think it's another reason why so many people do not actually support their local teams so much these days. Why bother when they can just pick a big club to follow instead? That's often how it goes these days.

[Redcap]

This is at the heart of why I would back a wage capped league - or one with restrictions on spending for each club in the league. As it stands, we have a mostly inflexible top rung of the table, with Arsenal and Man U falling a few places due to mismanagement over many years. Then we have everyone else whose best form of excitement is supposedly suffering relegation in order to maybe get a promotion battle - but realistically, maybe getting the europa league. Isn't that just fucking depressing?

It's a bad system which rewards money first, before management and quality of choices made. How many managers who achieve with smaller clubs in the premier league are then shut out of the big jobs? There are exceptions that prove the rule (Rodgers, Moyes and Hughes over the space of a decade, I think?) but overall, managers in the lower rungs of the premier league are on a hiding to nothing - they can't get a big club because they can't get the prestige that those clubs look for in managers - and that comes back to a self sustaining system where managers at big clubs have a much better chance of gaining that prestige.

It would be a better and more exciting league if there were a more level playing field in the money that a club could spend, rather then the money oriented system we have now, which barring the occasional blip (Leicester, Tottenham) favours the top clubs and preys on the rest.

I don't disagree that a salary cap (applied globally rather than only in England) would be good for the sport.

However, I don't think the problem with Newcastle and Burnley is that they don't have enough money. They have plenty enough money - certainly as much as say, Brighton or Norwich or Sheffield. Newcastle's got a big stadium and Burnley's been in the PL for years. The problem is they're both very poorly run clubs.

The two examples you've given - Leicester and Spurs, are both examples of clubs that have been run very well. And for that matter, so are we. 10 years ago we weren't nearly as rich as Chelsea, City or United. What we've done is a testament to how smartly the club has invested in being ahead of the curve in sports science, data, coaching, commercials etc. etc. On the other hand, you look at a club like Everton, and even being backed by a very rich guy has not helped them get to the top end of the table.

[Skeeve]

It's a bad system which rewards money first, before management and quality of choices made. How many managers who achieve with smaller clubs in the premier league are then shut out of the big jobs? There are exceptions that prove the rule (Rodgers, Moyes and Hughes over the space of a decade, I think?) but overall, managers in the lower rungs of the premier league are on a hiding to nothing - they can't get a big club because they can't get the prestige that those clubs look for in managers - and that comes back to a self sustaining system where managers at big clubs have a much better chance of gaining that prestige.

Can you name any that seem like they are an obvious one that missed out on a top job, it seems more like to me that the top jobs don't all come available that regularly since continuity helps performances and then the candidates from lower levels simply aren't good enough to be given a chance.

A big issue for potential managers is probably that the mid-tier clubs tend to be the best anti-football sides rather than a 2nd tier of footballing sides behind the top 6, so unlike many foreign managers being brought in, they would need to overhaul their style of play before they could be considered. Look at the way Rodgers played at Swansea, it was much more of a passing game than the likes of a Stoke or Burnley and thus he got a chance at a big side.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

A big issue for potential managers is probably that the mid-tier clubs tend to be the best anti-football sides rather than a 2nd tier of footballing sides behind the top 6, so unlike many foreign managers being brought in, they would need to overhaul their style of play before they could be considered. Look at the way Rodgers played at Swansea, it was much more of a passing game than the likes of a Stoke or Burnley and thus he got a chance at a big side.

That's it. It has nothing to do with the system. If you're managing a mid-table or lower league club and want to progress to a bigger club yourself, you need to adopt a style of play that is transferable, or at least show that you are pragmatic enough to switch styles depending on who you are playing or what players you have. Yet the old brigade and the England-centric media will never accept this. They prefer to blame the foreigners and criticise the big clubs rather than looking at the reasons why they aren't appointing certain managers. Pochettino showed them right up with what he did at Southampton and then Spurs.

Looking at style of play rather than results is why Eddie Howe's name was mooted for Everton's and Arsenal's current vacancies but Sean Dyche was never mentioned. Its why Brendan Rodgers was given the Liverpool job and Paul Lambert wasn't. Its why Roy Hodgson failed miserably at Liverpool and why Sam Allardyce was hated by Newcastle and Everton fans. Its why Graham Potter will be much higher on any list than Dean Smith.

[Jookie]

Fella at work is a Burnley fan, used to go every week and was a STH. Due to ill health he can't go much anymore, but went v Newcastle. Described it as one of the wrost games of fottball he has ever seen. He was chatting with all his match going mates, all STH's, home and away travellers. Every one of them said they would rather get relegated and at least have the excitement of a battle for promotion, than have no ambition to do any better than just grind out results with nothing more than the aim of making the club money.

We've been dining at the top table my entire life (53 years now), but if we were a club like Burnley, would you prefer want the same as these lads?

I can see why a Burnley fan might think this.

But the assumption here is that they believe they would be chasing promotion like they have in their previous Championship campaigns. Not necessarily the case if that happened again. Players who've had a prolonged taste of Premier League football won't stay. Unlike when they yo-yo'd a few years ago. Also, would the manager stay?

If they got relegated there's as much chance of Burnley going the way of Stoke or Sunderland as there is of them having an exciting campaign chasing promotion. Is that a risk you'd be willing to take? I'm not sure it is. As others have said a smaller, but probably better risk, is to try and get some excitement through progression in the domestic cups.

[Dench57]

Definitely. The whole point of football is entertainment, fun. Can't imagine how boring it must be following the Burnleys and Evertons of this world, nothing at risk but also no hope of something more.

[Fortneef]

I blame Bosman. Its now impossible to trade your way to the top.

[rob1966]

I can see why a Burnley fan might think this.

But the assumption here is that they believe they would be chasing promotion like they have in their previous Championship campaigns. Not necessarily the case if that happened again. Players who've had a prolonged taste of Premier League football won't stay. Unlike when they yo-yo'd a few years ago. Also, would the manager stay?

If they got relegated there's as much chance of Burnley going the way of Stoke or Sunderland as there is of them having an exciting campaign chasing promotion. Is that a risk you'd be willing to take? I'm not sure it is. As others have said a smaller, but probably better risk, is to try and get some excitement through progression in the domestic cups.

The biggest issue for them is that the football is dull, uninspiring and boring as fuck. The sole aim is to get to enough points to stay in the league, which means that when they play the likes of Newcastle, the games are awful. I get the feeling that even if they were mid table Championship, they would at least see football that was entertaining. They are now paying £500 for season tickets and sitting there thinking they would rather be anywhere else than Turf Moor.

[Jookie]

The biggest issue for them is that the football is dull, uninspiring and boring as fuck. The sole aim is to get to enough points to stay in the league, which means that when they play the likes of Newcastle, the games are awful. I get the feeling that even if they were mid table Championship, they would at least see football that was entertaining. They are now paying £500 for season tickets and sitting there thinking they would rather be anywhere else than Turf Moor.

It's easy to say but the best way is to vote with your feet.

If it's boring football and not much value (at 500 quid for a ST) then don't go. A drop in attendances may help drive a managerial change. I personally don't think relegation is the answer for any club. The destabilising effect of dropping out the Premier League is huge. Even more so for a club that's been there for a while.

Be interesting to see if Stoke fans would welcome back the mid-table Premier league days of Tony Pulis versus where they are now.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Why does there need to be a choice between progressing in the cups and avoiding relegation? The cups don't require that many games, progressing in either shouldn't affect the risk of relegation that much.

Didn't you argue with me yesterday that we were right to throw the cup? I know we're an extreme scenario this round, but we always rest players regardless. It's exactly the same thing: we prioritise the league, or top four in the past, they prioritise survival.

For me the fatigue and 'resting' element to it is massively overplayed, what it simply comes down to is managers having to give their squad players a chance at some point and being afraid to risk doing so in the league.

[markedasred]

One of my bezzies supports Blackburn, who have had the full rollercoaster of Shearer in the team and Kenny managing them in the Premier league era, and winning the bloody thing to going down to the 1st. After a dismal few years in the championship, that relegation was the best thing that could happen to them, as they started going to new grounds and winning there. As it happens they have just been having a great winning streak, so he is walking on air, but the survival mechanism through the lean seasons seems to be taking a general interest in football, watching great prospects of games when things are going poorly. Because of my fondness for him, I'll watch out for their results, but he sees loads of our games or highlights for the sheer quality of sportsmanship on display. As for fan media, he has to rely on the comments section of the local paper online. Meagre pickings compared to here, the wrap and all the stuff on youtube we get to choose from.

[rebel23]

I heard the same from a Baggies fan.  He dreaded going to Prem games but loved the hurley burley of the Championship.  i think it make perfect sense.

[Yosser0_0]

Bunch of cry arses, talk about missing the point of being a football fan. It's all about the emotional highs and lows and sharing those with like minded people, the social aspect, the banter, having a bevy, travelling to games and visiting places like Anfield and Old Trafford. It's know as having a past time and beats going shopping with the missus any day of the week.

Football and football leagues will always have teams at the top and the bottom, at least ours is more competitive than places like Spain or Scotland, it is also cyclic, Man United and Barcelona were shit for years, Barcelona hadn't won the European cup until the 90s! At least with football there are good odds for any team to do well and win things when you compare it to a sport such as golf hence the reason you see the likes of Leicester, Dortmund and Valencia winning leagues and Swansea and Wigan winning cups.

When I used to play football we had four teams and you could tell when the club was moving in the right direction when all four teams were doing well and we were building strength in depth. It takes years with a lot and hard work and application and dedicated people giving up lots of their own spare time, Burnley and their fans are in a privileged and prestigious position now which shouldn't be taken for granted, you never know what's around the corner. I'd say that the majority of footballers both amateur and professional don't win silverware on a regular basis, if at all in some cases but what a great past time if you are an amateur and what a fantastic way to make a living if you are lucky enough to make it as a pro. When you have to finish the biggest thing you miss is the social side, the camaraderie and the banter, the teamwork, the togetherness and of course we all want to win but that is a bonus and if it becomes rare then it is all the more sweeter when it happens. Take Liverpool, supposedly a successful side but hadn't won a cup for seven years, how many times have they been second, but the journeys and highs and lows have been great. Perhaps that's why other fans think we're all a bit weird?

So my message for the Burnley fans is if you feel so down about your team that you want to walk away from them then perhaps it is time to find another past time but it will likely leave a big gap because as fans we become so emotionally invested in our club, we really feel the highs and lows almost personally sometimes. It's unlikely that the trip to Asda with the missus at the weekend is going to fill that gap!
😁

[12C]

I blame Bosman. Its now impossible to trade your way to the top.

If you want to blame anything blame TV.
The only way you could see your team in the 50s was to go to the game.
My dad used to tell a story about when he was in the army, and Aldershot were playing Notts County. Him and his mate went along just to get a football fix and decided to support Notts County because Tommy Lawton was playing up front having moved from Everton.
People supported their local team through thick and thin because that was all they knew, but when TV came along you could see top sides playing a totally different game to your own team, and people wanted that brand of football. The global popularity of Shanks’ and Busby’s teams was down to the fact that people could see exactly how good they were and how shit their own sides were in comparison.
How many stories have you heard about people who knew very little about football, who saw us on the box and were smitten with the fan culture, and as others have said, the roller coaster of emotional highs and lows, and became reds fans.
How many kids watched us in Istanbul and said “that’s the team for me” and they live on the other side of the globe.
My dad supported us through the dark days of the 50s, but he would go to Goodison just to see top sides. He always recalled seeing Duncan Edwards and thinking he would be the greatest ever. He raved about Finney, and Lofthouse, but was scathing about Billy Wright at Wolves, and thought Matthews believed his own publicity. He had only seen them play a couple of times, but that was more than most. I always remember him being so saddened with the way Pele was booted out of the 66 World Cup, because he had been looking forward to see this legend play in the flesh rather than on a news reel clip.

Today we see games from around the world where the best in the world show their skills. This is the norm for today’s fans. Whereas it used to be your local team it is now your global team. We are the lucky ones. We have the best of it. 60 years of successes, and our failures are what most teams would call success.
Imagine watching reds fans experiencing the likes of Rome, Wembley, Paris, Istanbul and Madrid,  or watching us destroy Barca, but sitting there hoping that one day Burnley might win a couple of games in the Europa league

[jamieredders]

I watched this on a stream yesterday before our match.  It was horrendous:


SEAN Dyche insists "no one will care" how Burnley collected points come the end of the season following another uninspiring win.

Clarets boss Dyche celebrated the 50th Premier League victory of his managerial career after substitute Jay Rodriguez struck in the 89th minute to secure a 1-0 success at Cherries.

Rodriguez's scruffy finish was the only attempt on target of a dismal south coast encounter played in torrential rain and drenched with free-kicks.

The visitors' direct, physical approach had brought chants of 'boring, boring Burnley' and 'how do you watch this every week?' from unimpressed home supporters.


But Dyche, whose side prevented Newcastle registering a shot on target during another narrow 1-0 win last weekend, is unconcerned about the manner of victories.

"It's a rarity that you keep teams from not having a shot on target and if you keep two back to back that's certainly even more rare," he said.

"You've got to find a way (to win) and we found a way against Newcastle in another awkward game.

"The strange thing about it is we all remember it when we analyse it, but you know at the end of the season whatever points we've got, no one cares, trust me.


“They just care how many points you've got."

Speaking about his milestone victory, he added: "It doesn't sound a lot but it's tough, you must have enough games in you to get 50, so I was pleased with that."

Burnley climbed to 10th place on the back of Saturday's niggly encounter, which was interrupted by 34 fouls and six bookings.

[rob1966]

^

That is exactly what they were angry about.

[FiSh77]

^

That is exactly what they were angry about.

Yeah it's grim as fuck

Is your mate going to the potential classic on boxing day?

[Eeyore]

I don't like the way Burnley play but I think you have to put things in to perspective. Burnley has a population of less than 90,000 people. That is less than the population of Southport, less than half of the population of St Helens and one and a half times the population of Widnes.

In the last accounts their match day income was £5.6m. Dyche has done an unbelievable job.

[rob1966]

Yeah it's grim as fuck

Is your mate going to the potential classic on boxing day?

Nah, he's not that soft

[Lush is the best medicine...]

I don't like the way Burnley play but I think you have to put things in to perspective. Burnley has a population of less than 90,000 people. That is less than the population of Southport, less than half of the population of St Helens and one and a half times the population of Widnes.

In the last accounts their match day income was £5.6m. Dyche has done an unbelievable job.

yup, when you consider the likes of Leeds, Forest, sheff wed, fulham who would have much greater resources in the top flight and burnley are pretty solid in then it highlights the brilliant job he’s done there

[sinnermichael]

Not a good few days for them. The plane incident the other night. Now rumours about Dyche's future because he's fallen out with the chairman over transfers and they're linked with Mark Hughes.

[rafathegaffa83]

Not a good few days for them. The plane incident the other night. Now rumours about Dyche's future because he's fallen out with the chairman over transfers and they're linked with Mark Hughes.

It wouldn't surprise me if they go down next season. They couldn't even arrange to keep several players until the end of the season. They were also going to run out of cash by August if the season didn't restart

[Elzar]

If they, or any other Premierleague club hires Mark Hughes, the deserve liquidation. The guys record is a joke.

[CraigDS]

I don't get how they can cry poverty.

They seem to be making decent profits, their wages to turnover is pretty reasonable and they don't spend big money.

I wouldn't blame Dyche for wanting the club to show a bit of ambition as they seem to be being run as a club happy to finish in 17th as long as they stay up.

[Tesco tearaway]

Why not both? A nice night out followed by a good bumming.

Who do you think he is; David Platt?

[killer-heels]

I don't get how they can cry poverty.

They seem to be making decent profits, their wages to turnover is pretty reasonable and they don't spend big money.

I wouldn't blame Dyche for wanting the club to show a bit of ambition as they seem to be being run as a club happy to finish in 17th as long as they stay up.

From the looks of it that's what they are trying to maintain in the face of losses of revenue rather than them struggling.

[kloppagetime]

Upto 9th place now only 2 points off another Europa League finish, Dyche's football may not be pleasing on the eye but it is bloody effective. Clubs like West Ham and Aston Villa depending on which one stays up should be all over him if rumors are to believed that's he calling it a day at Burnley.

[IgorBobbins]

Upto 9th place now only 2 points off another Europa League finish, Dyche's football may not be pleasing on the eye but it is bloody affective. Clubs like West Ham and Aston Villa depending on which one stays up should be all over him if rumors are to believed that's he calling it a day at Burnley.

The thing is - do Dyche's teams play attritional, turgid football because he has to adapt to the quality of players at his disposal?  Or because that's his style and he feel's it's effective?  That would be the question/worry for other teams looking at him.

[Chris~]

The thing is - do Dyche's teams play attritional, turgid football because he has to adapt to the quality of players at his disposal?  Or because that's his style and he feel's it's effective?  That would be the question/worry for other teams looking at him.

It's very rare that managers will completely change how they set up a team though. Rodgers, Potter, Howe, Martinez (to varying degrees of success) all managed lower Prmeier league eams without top quality players and didn't set them up like Dyche has with Burnley and although they've never had huge amounts to spend it's not like he's targeted players to move away from their currnet style.

[Clayton Bigsby]

The thing is - do Dyche's teams play attritional, turgid football because he has to adapt to the quality of players at his disposal?  Or because that's his style and he feel's it's effective?  That would be the question/worry for other teams looking at him.

It's the latter I reckon

[Fromola]

It's very rare that managers will completely change how they set up a team though. Rodgers, Potter, Howe, Martinez (to varying degrees of success) all managed lower Prmeier league eams without top quality players and didn't set them up like Dyche has with Burnley and although they've never had huge amounts to spend it's not like he's targeted players to move away from their currnet style.

Managers tend to have their way of playing. Dyche is more of the Hodgson/Pulis school but it's a effective at a certain level.

[kloppagetime]

The thing is - do Dyche's teams play attritional, turgid football because he has to adapt to the quality of players at his disposal?  Or because that's his style and he feel's it's effective?  That would be the question/worry for other teams looking at him.

I believe it's because that's his style and he believes it's effective, that's why he can never manage the truly elite teams but clubs like West Ham and Villa though Dyche is probably the best they could do.

[bradders1011]

Managers tend to have their way of playing. Dyche is more of the Hodgson/Pulis school but it's a effective at a certain level.

But he isn't a chippy, insecure arsehole?

[jillcwhomever]

Managers tend to have their way of playing. Dyche is more of the Hodgson/Pulis school but it's a effective at a certain level.

Which is the main point, its the reason few big clubs will come calling for him which is why I can't understand people going on about him being ignored.

[Fromola]

Which is the main point, its the reason few big clubs will come calling for him which is why I can't understand people going on about him being ignored.

It's why managers like Howe (before this season anyway) will be touted for bigger jobs ahead of him and why Rodgers got the Liverpool job or why Martinez and Silva got the Everton job despite getting relegated. And why it was so ridiculous to give Hodgson the Liverpool job and Moyes the United job. Or why the biggest job Allardyce could get was Everton caretaker to make sure they stayed up.

Translating an attacking and attractive style of play is easier when you've got top players, the top clubs expect to play that way. That's why Dyche wouldn't even get touted for the Everton job as his teams never play that way. The exceptions are managers like Mourinho and Simeone who had to prove success at the top level first abroad. The delusion with Hodgson was that he had that kind of super CV to justify a top job because of Scandinavian titles.

[Hendollama]

Footy Accumulators
@FootyAccums
Sean Dyche has had his say on the possibility of the Premier League stepping in to help lower league clubs.

Thoughts?

https://twitter.com/FootyAccums/status/1308703700832194562?s=20