Topic: FC Barcelona

[Xxavi]

Check out Captain Hindsight here.

The absolute fucking state of you and Xxavi taking so much joy over Liverpool playing much worse than we all expected a month ago.

I am not taking joy though, unlike some of you taking joy in Barca's problems (even Dembele's injury).

I like Liverpool. However, I am taking joy in the fact that you are woefully out of your mind with some of your posts and predictions. I said back then that you guys accuse me of arrogance when given your posts, yours are so arrogant that it doesn't even make sense.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Check out Captain Hindsight here.

The absolute fucking state of you and Xxavi taking so much joy over Liverpool playing much worse than we all expected a month ago.

In fairness some of the doom-and-gloom regarding the strength of Barcelona's squad was well out of line with reality. I'm not just talking on here either as I think it was understandable Xxavi got goaded after the Coutinho saga. I'm talking neutral journalists/pundits etc. Plenty on the Totally Football podcast were saying they'd do well to finish 2nd in the league and get past the first knockout stage of the CL.

For me Barcelona are like a much better Arsenal. It doesn't matter as much to them as other clubs if you take away one of their best players, they'll still perform at a similar rate in league football because they've got such an ingrained, consistent style of football.

[Gerry Attrick]

Let's see how they fare towards the end of the season. The season has only just started, so their aging players haven't been burnt out yet. Messi for example has already played 10 competitive games for club and country so far this season and we're not even at the end of September yet.

[Xabi Gerrard]

In fairness some of the doom-and-gloom regarding the strength of Barcelona's squad was well out of line with reality. I'm not just talking on here either as I think it was understandable Xxavi got goaded after the Coutinho saga. I'm talking neutral journalists/pundits etc. Plenty on the Totally Football podcast were saying they'd do well to finish 2nd in the league and get past the first knockout stage of the CL.

Fair enough - to be honest I havent heard the Total Football podcast so can't comment on that. My view in summer was that they were still much better than us, but not as good as they used to be, which is also the view that I see most of the places I look (like on here). I still think that's the case a month into the season. But yeah, if some outlets are saying they'd struggle to finish 2nd in their joke 2 team league, then yeah that's way off and deserves ridicule.

[thelinnen]

Another deluded poster. Do you really believe Barca's squad is mediocre if you take Messi out?

Barca's squad is not any worse than, say, Bayern' squad even if you take Messi out. Or that of any club in England. Plenty of great players in there.

Yeah I do, and you can't have it both ways. You can' come on here and chat about how incompetent Barca's board and transfer policy is and then claim to have a great squad.

And Bayern's midfield/defense/keeper is light years ahead of Barcelona's. And you called me delusional!

[Xxavi]

Yeah I do, and you can't have it both ways. You can' come on here and chat about how incompetent Barca's board and transfer policy is and then claim to have a great squad.

And Bayern's midfield/defense/keeper is light years ahead of Barcelona's. And you called me delusional!

Light years? Not at all, you must be remembering Pep's Bayern. The current Bayern have regressed badly, too, I am not sure you've kept up with their fairly poor season so far. I'd suggest you go and check their forums.

Neuer is injured for months, but even when he is fit, he is no longer "light years" ahead of Ter Stegen. He is better, but you are exaggerating. Neuer's replacement is a retired or some semi-pro type guy, I read. So Barca's backup keeper should be better, but I haven't seen them in action enough to compare.

In defense, who does Bayern have? Lahm has retired, Alaba has regressed so much its untrue. Boateng has not featured in ages, and barely counts. Bayern have Javi Martinez and Hummels there. So you see the likes of Rafinha, Bernat, Kimmich etc. often. How is that any better than Barca's Umtiti, Pique, Semedo and Alba?

In midfield, they have a carousel. Not sure if they have settled on anything, but Thiago, Vidal and let's say James. Is that better than Busquets, Iniesta and Rakitic? On the wings and upfront, they have Coman, old/past it Robben and Ribery, Lewandowski.

And finally, it is not like Ancelotti is having them play better than the sum of their individual parts.

[CallumLFC]

Well ya just did and seems to me you're one of those "I told you so" dickheads.

And yeah our first XI out there we could give a game to those dickheads n'all. 

The only 'told you so' statement i will shout out about, is when i told you Everton's signings were shite 

[Xxavi]

Yeah I do, and you can't have it both ways. You can' come on here and chat about how incompetent Barca's board and transfer policy is and then claim to have a great squad.

Re-Barca's management, yes, it has been terrible, but most other clubs would say the same. I was reading Bayern forum posts, and they seem to think their summer business has been wrong for several years now.

Barca messed up with a bunch of transfers, and were going to mess up more buy paying over the top for Coutinho. But Barca had and still does have historical players. 3-4 bad transfers will not bring Barca's squad quality all the way down to, let's say, ManU's. And to be fair to the board, they had some decent signings every now and then, too, like Semedo this summer. Regardless, the fact that I am unhappy with their performance doesn't mean Barca's squad is suddenly "mediocre" if you take Messi out.

[CallumLFC]

Check out Captain Hindsight here.

The absolute fucking state of you and Xxavi taking so much joy over Liverpool playing much worse than we all expected a month ago.

Nothing to do with the comparison to ourselves. Even if i made a small remark about it.

More looking at how they've started the season and recalling how everyone on here was going on about how much they were falling.

[El Lobo]

Nothing to do with the comparison to ourselves. Even if i made a small quip about it.

More looking at how they've started the season and recalling how everyone on here was going on about how much they were falling.

Aye, and bigging any team up after five games is just as stupid as doom mongering after five games.

We shall see. Messi looking like a god again doesn't change that everyone else seems to be off it

[Xabi Gerrard]

Nothing to do with the comparison to ourselves. Even if i made a small remark about it.

More looking at how they've started the season and recalling how everyone on here was going on about how much they were falling.

That's fair enough but you've got to expect a bit of stick when;

- You admitted you didn't pipe up before but now come in all righteous to those who did with the full benefit of hindsight;

- You use our own terrible form - which is really bloody painful for us as it is -  as a stick to further beat those people with (even if was just a "small remark");

- It's been a month. And the only other team in their 2 team league have had the world's outstanding player of the last couple of years suspended;

- Even if they are damn good, don't you think it's fair to say they're not as good as they were before? Obviously they're much worse than the Xaviesta heyday, but even since pre-summer - losing a player of Neymar's quality and Suarez only playing to 60% of his ability is going to adversely effect a team, right? Because that's what people were saying.

[ElCapo]

Light years? Not at all, you must be remembering Pep's Bayern. The current Bayern have regressed badly, too, I am not sure you've kept up with their fairly poor season so far. I'd suggest you go and check their forums.

Neuer is injured for months, but even when he is fit, he is no longer "light years" ahead of Ter Stegen. He is better, but you are exaggerating. Neuer's replacement is a retired or some semi-pro type guy, I read. So Barca's backup keeper should be better, but I haven't seen them in action enough to compare.

In defense, who does Bayern have? Lahm has retired, Alaba has regressed so much its untrue. Boateng has not featured in ages, and barely counts. Bayern have Javi Martinez and Hummels there. So you see the likes of Rafinha, Bernat, Kimmich etc. often. How is that any better than Barca's Umtiti, Pique, Semedo and Alba?

In midfield, they have a carousel. Not sure if they have settled on anything, but Thiago, Vidal and let's say James. Is that better than Busquets, Iniesta and Rakitic? On the wings and upfront, they have Coman, old/past it Robben and Ribery, Lewandowski.

And finally, it is not like Ancelotti is having them play better than the sum of their individual parts.

Erm, there's a lot wrong here in reference to Bayern.

Ancelotti has been experimenting with 4-2-3-1 with Tolisso and Rudy as the 2 pivots, Coman, Muller and James as the trio behind Lewandowski.   

Regardless, Bayern are the second most heavily represented club in the nominations for 2017’s FIFA FIFPro World XI alongside Barcelona, behind only RM  -  Manuel Neuer, Arturo Vidal, Robert Lewandowski, David Alaba, Jerome Boateng, Thiago Alcantara, Mats Hummels, and the now retired Philipp Lahm have all been nominated for their performances in the calendar year of 2017.

[ElCapo]

I am not taking joy though, unlike some of you taking joy in Barca's problems (even Dembele's injury).

I like Liverpool. However, I am taking joy in the fact that you are woefully out of your mind with some of your posts and predictions. I said back then that you guys accuse me of arrogance when given your posts, yours are so arrogant that it doesn't even make sense.

This is fair enough, I found ridiculous suggestions that LFC would walk Bundesliga, or that LFC win every league apart from England and Spain at a canter.   I think LFC is grossly overrated on these boards (understandably so), but most are not objective when they judge other teams like Bayern or Barca or even domestic competitors. 

[Samie]

No one overrates our team for fuck sakes. We know we have a poor squad and our defece makes it easy for all to walk through. But the way we play and our forward line up makes it possible for us to compete with pretty much anyone.  Or did you forget the last time we played you guy's? 

[Xxavi]

Erm, there's a lot wrong here in reference to Bayern.

Ancelotti has been experimenting with 4-2-3-1 with Tolisso and Rudy as the 2 pivots, Coman, Muller and James as the trio behind Lewandowski.   

Regardless, Bayern are the second most heavily represented club in the nominations for 2017’s FIFA FIFPro World XI alongside Barcelona, behind only RM  -  Manuel Neuer, Arturo Vidal, Robert Lewandowski, David Alaba, Jerome Boateng, Thiago Alcantara, Mats Hummels, and the now retired Philipp Lahm have all been nominated for their performances in the calendar year of 2017.

Do you think Bayern squad is "light years" better than Barca squad minus Messi?

[killer-heels]

Still seen enough to know that they'll be challenging for the title and will be one of the contenders for the CL.

Apparently we were on the way to overtaking them. Quite amusing that.

Yes, because they have Lionel Messi. Their time and debt will catch up with them. Thats unless they get the usual Spanish dodgy loan.

Or maybe them Catelonian c*nts are told to fuck off by the government this time? I cetainly would if i ran that country.

[thelinnen]

Do you think Bayern squad is "light years" better than Barca squad minus Messi?

Let's flip it the other way round, which Barcelona players do you think would make Bayern's team?

[Shaved Crossbar]

Let's flip it the other way round, which Barcelona players do you think would make Bayern's team?

What's Bayern's best team?

Neuer
Rafinha Boateng Hummels Alaba
Thiago Vidal
Robben James Ribery
Lewandowski
?

If so, then I'm having Semedo, Pique, Alba, Busquets, Messi, Suarez

[ElCapo]

Do you think Bayern squad is "light years" better than Barca squad minus Messi?

It's better, but I have no idea what "light years" means in this context. 

[Gerry Attrick]

My combined Barca/Bayern team now would be; Neuer, Kimmich, Hummels, Umtiti, Alaba, Busquets, Thiago, Rakitic, Dembele, Lewandowski and Messi.

[ElCapo]

What's Bayern's best team?

Neuer
Rafinha Boateng Hummels Alaba
Thiago Vidal
Robben James Ribery
Lewandowski
?

If so, then I'm having Semedo, Pique, Alba, Busquets, Messi, Suarez

Except it's not.


Bayern's starting 11 has been the following recently:
GK
Rafinha  Suele Hummels Kimmich
Rudy, Tolisso
Coman, Mueller, James,
Lewa

Thiago, Vidal, Alaba, Boateng, Martinez, Robben, Ribery on the bench.

[Xxavi]

Except it's not.


Bayern's starting 11 has been the following recently:
GK
Rafinha  Suele Hummels Kimmich
Rudy, Tolisso
Coman, Mueller, James,
Lewa

Thiago, Vidal, Alaba, Boateng, Martinez, Robben, Ribery on the bench.

Yeah, and how is that better than Barca team?

[Xxavi]

What's Bayern's best team?

Neuer
Rafinha Boateng Hummels Alaba
Thiago Vidal
Robben James Ribery
Lewandowski
?

If so, then I'm having Semedo, Pique, Alba, Busquets, Messi, Suarez

My combined Barca/Bayern team now would be; Neuer, Kimmich, Hummels, Umtiti, Alaba, Busquets, Thiago, Rakitic, Dembele, Lewandowski and Messi.

These are inaccurate because people like Alaba and Boateng haven't played much as of recent, and when they have, they are really far from their best. How is that both of you have included them just based on their names yet Iniesta, Suarez and Pique are missing from your teams? If you go by names, they should be in there. If you go by their performances this season or late last season, then a good chunk of those Bayern players should be absent too.

[Gerry Attrick]

These are inaccurate because people like Alaba and Boateng haven't played much as of recent, and when they have, they are really far from their best. How is that both of you have included them just based on their names yet Iniesta, Suarez and Pique are missing from your teams? If you go by names, they should be in there. If you go by their performances this season or late last season, then a good chunk of those Bayern players should be absent too.

Pique isn't in there because he's not as good as Hummels and Umtiti now, I would rather have Lewandowski than Suarez at this point and I rate Dembele incredibly highly. Iniesta is still a good player but Thiago is better now. Alaba is there because of a lack of a better option.

[Xxavi]

Let's flip it the other way round, which Barcelona players do you think would make Bayern's team?

What is your exact question here? The Bayern team in the best of its form in Heynckess glory days? If so, that team doesn't exist anymore. Or do you mean the Bayern team Pep had, which was unquestionably top 3 in Europe? If so, again, that team is no more.

If you are as strict in your assessment of CURRENT Bayern, here are the Barca players who would make it:
Ter Stegen (at the moment, since Neuer is injured)
Semedo over Rafinha
Umtiti over Sule (or semi-crock Javi Martinez, whichever you prefer)
Pique and Hummels are just about the same level
Alba over Kimmich
====
Summary for defense+gk. Today, 3 Barca players would walk into Bayern's d+gk positions, Semedo, Umtiti and Ter Stegen quite clearly. Pique and Hummels are at the same level, Alba/Semedo IMO are both better than Kimmich too, but let's call these a draw. The actual comparison should be Semedo-Kimmich and Alba-Rafinha. I'd pick Barca pair no question.

Midfield:
Rudy-Busquets  ===>No contest here, Busi.
Mueller-Iniesta - Even if you think Iniesta is past it, you have to be out of your mind if you think the current Mueller is clearly better here. He has been in and out of the team having a hard time getting playing time. But OK, I will call it a draw.
Tolisso-Rakitic ===> Rakitic has an edge here.
===========
Summary for midfield. Even if you pick Thiago over Tolisso, the midfield is largely even. In the match-ups, if there is a glaring advantage, it is Busi over whoever Bayern have. I'd say Thiago is better than Rakitic or Iniesta in theory, but realistically, he hasn't shown any consistency to be sure of it. Even Bayern fans aren't sure if they prefer Thiago over Mueller there.

Attack:
Coman-Dembele ===> Dembele. But Dembele is injured so Coman-Delufeu ==> Coman
James - Messi -> Messi
Lewandowski-Suarez ==>Right now, Lewandowski
====
Summary, with the recent injury to Dembele, a slight edge in attack is to Bayern.

Overall, it's about par, with certain position match-ups being VERY Barca favored. For example, Semedo, Busi, Messi etc. are far better than their Bayern counterparts. Others are about the same quality. Conversely, if you asked which Bayern player would walk into Barca lineup, I have only 2 very clear ones, and they are Neuer (if fit and in best form, which he isn't) and Lewandowski (unless Suarez comes back to form).

Do you see light years difference here?

[Xxavi]

Pique isn't in there because he's not as good as Hummels and Umtiti now, I would rather have Lewandowski than Suarez at this point and I rate Dembele incredibly highly. Iniesta is still a good player but Thiago is better now. Alaba is there because of a lack of a better option.

Pique is hammered every time he plays as an overrated defender, yet it doesn't matter how poor Bayern are in defense, Hummels is not to blame. OK, whatever, I guess its only me who thinks he is overrated.
Thiago is a great player, but you've gotta admit he hasn't produced when it mattered most for Bayern. Iniesta every now and then dominates a top team like Italy NT or Juventus. Thiago? He must be great in Bundesliga but otherwise weaker opponents aside he hasn't stamped his name on a game. Regardless, I am not even sure if Thiago is a 100% starter for Bayern. Are you sure?

Your choice and reasoning for Alaba is hilarious. The guy is simply not there, his best game has been a while ago, yet you don't think Spanish international Alba still wouldn't be picked there?

[Gerry Attrick]

Pique is hammered every time he plays as an overrated defender, yet it doesn't matter how poor Bayern are in defense, Hummels is not to blame. OK, whatever, I guess its only me who thinks he is overrated.
Thiago is a great player, but you've gotta admit he hasn't produced when it mattered most for Bayern. Iniesta every now and then dominates a top team like Italy NT or Juventus. Thiago? He must be great in Bundesliga but otherwise weaker opponents aside he hasn't stamped his name on a game. Regardless, I am not even sure if Thiago is a 100% starter for Bayern. Are you sure?

Your choice and reasoning for Alaba is hilarious. The guy is simply not there, his best game has been a while ago, yet you don't think Spanish international Alba still wouldn't be picked there?

I think you make some good posts from time to time but your opinions are so one eyed sometimes. You say Alaba had his best game a while ago, yet sing the praises of a guy that barely even started an important game for Barcelona last season. I'm pretty sure Rafinha was being preferred at LB over Alba for some games last season 

Thiago is the complete midfielder these days. You can take almost any measure you want on Squawka and Thiago matches or outperforms Iniesta in almost all of them.
The gap only increases if you use Champions League performances last season. Thiago made 14 more passes per 90, made 1.34 more key passes per 90, made 1.54 more chances per 90, made more tackles, had better take on numbers, won more aerial duels and had more interceptions. He is better than Iniesta in almost every quantifiable measure these days. Age is catching up to Iniesta and he's come back to the pack, my eyes tell me that and the stats just confirm it.

[Xxavi]

I think you make some good posts from time to time but your opinions are so one eyed sometimes. You say Alaba had his best game a while ago, yet sing the praises of a guy that barely even started an important game for Barcelona last season. I'm pretty sure Rafinha was being preferred at LB over Alba for some games last season 

Thiago is the complete midfielder these days. You can take almost any measure you want on Squawka and Thiago matches or outperforms Iniesta in almost all of them.
The gap only increases if you use Champions League performances last season. Thiago made 14 passes per 90, made 1.34 more key passes per 90, made 1.54 more chances per 90, made more tackles, had better take on numbers, won more aerial duels and had more interceptions. He is better than Iniesta in almost every quantifiable measure these days. Age is catching up to Iniesta and he's coming back to the pack, my eyes tell me that and the stats just confirm it.

Alright, Thiago is better than Iniesta. But then, does Thiago actually start for Ancelotti's Bayern? I am serious, Ancelotti seems to be tinkering every week. I am not even sure what is their current best 11.

[Gerry Attrick]

Alright, Thiago is better than Iniesta. But then, does Thiago actually start for Ancelotti's Bayern? I am serious, Ancelotti seems to be tinkering every week. I am not even sure what is their current best 11.

He started in 26 out of 34 games in the Bundesliga and started in 9 out of 10 games in the Champions League last season. He started against Anderlecht in the Champions League last week too. He's as first choice as first choice can get really, some rotation is inevitable at a team like Bayern though I'm not very impressed with Ancelotti's work there.

[Xxavi]

He started in 26 out of 34 games in the Bundesliga and started in 9 out of 10 games in the Champions League last season. He started against Anderlecht in the Champions League last week too. He's as first choice as first choice can get really, some rotation is inevitable at a team like Bayern though I'm not very impressed with Ancelotti's work there.

I do think that Bayern's best team should have Thiago in midfield, but Ancelotti has tried many different formations, tried to even get Renato Sanches in there. Tolisso, Vidal, James, Mueller Thiago. If I am very honest, whatever combination of that doesn't impress me any more than Busquets-Iniesta-Rakitic/Paulinho. Depending on your preference, perhaps you may call Bayern's a bit better. I just fail to see how that is light years ahead of Barca's midfield though. Not a chance.

[Gerry Attrick]

I do think that Bayern's best team should have Thiago in midfield, but Ancelotti has tried many different formations, tried to even get Renato Sanches in there. Tolisso, Vidal, James, Mueller Thiago. If I am very honest, whatever combination of that doesn't impress me any more than Busquets-Iniesta-Rakitic/Paulinho. Depending on your preference, perhaps you may call Bayern's a bit better. I just fail to see how that is light years ahead of Barca's midfield though. Not a chance.

I'm not really sure what Bayern's best midfield is but I do think Thiago is the best midfielder on either team right now. I would say Busquets and Rakitic are the next best midfielders.

[ElCapo]

Yeah, and how is that better than Barca team?

Better keeper, defense, more options and depth in midfield.  You've got a certain Argenius tho

[ElCapo]

What is your exact question here? The Bayern team in the best of its form in Heynckess glory days? If so, that team doesn't exist anymore. Or do you mean the Bayern team Pep had, which was unquestionably top 3 in Europe? If so, again, that team is no more.

If you are as strict in your assessment of CURRENT Bayern, here are the Barca players who would make it:
Ter Stegen (at the moment, since Neuer is injured)
Semedo over Rafinha
Umtiti over Sule (or semi-crock Javi Martinez, whichever you prefer)
Pique and Hummels are just about the same level
Alba over Kimmich
====
Summary for defense+gk. Today, 3 Barca players would walk into Bayern's d+gk positions, Semedo, Umtiti and Ter Stegen quite clearly. Pique and Hummels are at the same level, Alba/Semedo IMO are both better than Kimmich too, but let's call these a draw. The actual comparison should be Semedo-Kimmich and Alba-Rafinha. I'd pick Barca pair no question.

Midfield:
Rudy-Busquets  ===>No contest here, Busi.
Mueller-Iniesta - Even if you think Iniesta is past it, you have to be out of your mind if you think the current Mueller is clearly better here. He has been in and out of the team having a hard time getting playing time. But OK, I will call it a draw.
Tolisso-Rakitic ===> Rakitic has an edge here.
===========
Summary for midfield. Even if you pick Thiago over Tolisso, the midfield is largely even. In the match-ups, if there is a glaring advantage, it is Busi over whoever Bayern have. I'd say Thiago is better than Rakitic or Iniesta in theory, but realistically, he hasn't shown any consistency to be sure of it. Even Bayern fans aren't sure if they prefer Thiago over Mueller there.

Attack:
Coman-Dembele ===> Dembele. But Dembele is injured so Coman-Delufeu ==> Coman
James - Messi -> Messi
Lewandowski-Suarez ==>Right now, Lewandowski
====
Summary, with the recent injury to Dembele, a slight edge in attack is to Bayern.

Overall, it's about par, with certain position match-ups being VERY Barca favored. For example, Semedo, Busi, Messi etc. are far better than their Bayern counterparts. Others are about the same quality. Conversely, if you asked which Bayern player would walk into Barca lineup, I have only 2 very clear ones, and they are Neuer (if fit and in best form, which he isn't) and Lewandowski (unless Suarez comes back to form).

Do you see light years difference here?

Great analysis!

You compare Alba (LB) with Kimmich a RB. 

Says it all.

[pyroparty]

I don't get it, everyone on here was stating Barca were in decline.

How can they have started so well? It doesn't make sense. Barca were finished. That's what the experts here told us.

It’s 5 games mate, and amazingly Barca can still be in decline but beat Alaves and co. You gave Man City the title last September, it’s very early days.

[luckyluke]

Don't have time to read back so sorry if it's been discussed before but would the referendum have any effect on their league membership? Should the decision go through of course. I'm guessing not but want to be sure.

[killer-heels]

Don't have time to read back so sorry if it's been discussed before but would the referendum have any effect on their league membership? Should the decision go through of course. I'm guessing not but want to be sure.

Hopefully it does. Would be fun to see them kicked out.

[Samie]

Don't have time to read back so sorry if it's been discussed before but would the referendum have any effect on their league membership? Should the decision go through of course. I'm guessing not but want to be sure.

It should because then Catalunya is a separate country.

[Gerry Attrick]

Don't have time to read back so sorry if it's been discussed before but would the referendum have any effect on their league membership? Should the decision go through of course. I'm guessing not but want to be sure.

I doubt it, Monaco still play in Ligue 1.

[Samie]

Monaco don't like to think they're a different entity to France though.

[Gerry Attrick]

Monaco don't like to think they're a different entity to France though.

They're an independent state with a completely different taxation system etc. I don't think there'd be an appetite to exclude Barcelona, La Liga would become like the SPL if they didn't allow Barcelona to stay in.