Author Topic: Players signed by Rafael Benitez  (Read 165327 times)

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #240 on: November 2, 2009, 08:29:08 pm »
Rafa is far too quick to offload.
In almost ALL cases, see Crouch, Bellamy, Sissoko, Josemi, Arbeloa, Alonso for example, Rafa has made money when he's offloaded players he's bought already.

This he has to do, to earn transfer money for his primary targets. See Bellamy being sold to fund Torres for example. If he could have kept him as backup, he would have done.

Rafa doesn't have the luxury that you do of simply spunking £30m on a new player without having to sell.

It really is that simple.

Offline rebel23

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #241 on: November 2, 2009, 08:29:42 pm »
re United and Arsenal while spending less, they have balanced the books but they've been able to buy when they need to and made those decisions according to their needs

Arsenal last year looked like they would struggle for 4th but then they bought what they need, they spent £14m on Arshavin!   

Does anyone think the Americans are going to do that with us? If they let us spend £14m we will easily get the CL as long as we dont have a disaster till christmas but it's going to be touch and go if they dont.  Simple really.  If they want it to they have to spend.

Offline farawayred

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #242 on: November 2, 2009, 08:29:59 pm »
You finished 37 points behind the Champions in Rafas first season.

Whilst I can see the points being made about certain players under Houllier being in decline and what not, the fact is those players still managed to consistantly finish in the top 4 and do fairly well in cup competitions.

Whilst thats been answered, what about your thoughts, on 10 in 10 out a season, surely that must come to an end?
The lack of youth being developed at your club, where is your Rafael? Clichy? Evans? Welbeck? Wilshere? why are there no youngsters coming through in the first team?
Its ok saying "this lad looked great in reserves" but where are they on nights like last Wednesday?



Just wanted to point to Houllier's achievement as a misconception. See the UEFA ranking of Liverpool under his reign:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/trank2004.html

UEFA Team Ranking 2004
                               99/00        00/01         01/02        02/03         03/04        ranking
10  Liverpool  Eng     4.7850     27.6750     22.8185     20.5200     14.7125     90.511

The 2000/2001 was his treble season. Downhill from then on. We dropped to 10th, behind Real, United, Arsenal, Porto, and Milan. For a comparison, (last year's ranking) with Rafa we are only behind Barca and on par with Chelsea.

So, I don't subscribe to the myth that Houllier players were even compatible to Rafa's players. There were some legends among them (Sami, Didi) others would have come through even if Mickey Mouse was the manager (Stevie, Carra, Owen), and the best of the rest was Finnan. That's it.
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Offline Anoynymouslad87

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #243 on: November 2, 2009, 08:31:02 pm »
Our Rafael was injured against Lyon, our Clichy was playing,  our Evans came on against Fulham, our Welbeck is out on loan and our Wilshere was away with his national side (U19).


And yet, other than Insua how many first team games have those other players played?
Rafael, Evans and Clichy have premier league winners medals because they were given a run in the team.
Welbeck has played in every single one of our Cup ties for the last two seasons.

It's not about making one off appearances, they must be giving an extended run in the team.
It's up to Rafa to decide when.

Offline the_prodigal_s0n

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #244 on: November 2, 2009, 08:33:38 pm »
Why don't you go back to caferouge, you clearly don't know what your talking about.
Precisely. You're on here telling us that we should blame our manager? I wouldn't go on a United site and tell you to sack Ferguson. You know fuck all about what you're discussing.

Offline roscommonred

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #245 on: November 2, 2009, 08:35:48 pm »
Mr. Benitez to you.

He hasn't, for a long time.

That's what he's doing. You sound like Tom Hicks with his 'stick to coaching the team'. That isn't a good thing. He's coaching and managing and working very hard, despite the luck of the devil this season.

Ah, so there's no money issue then and we'll buy David Villa in January. Awesome dude.

Wibble.

Quite fun this quoting lark!

Have fun quoting then, I can't be bothered anymore.

Well done for the normal RAWK blinkered view and not understanding my post at all.

Where in God's name did I mention buying MR. Villa. Where ffs?

So we add lack of luck to lack of money now then? Anything else? The weather, climate change, the recession? Anything but a manager actually managing eh?

Mind them pencils don't get stuck up your nose.
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Offline thekitkatshuffler

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #246 on: November 2, 2009, 08:35:51 pm »
Good post but it'll all mean nowt if a world class manager like Mourinho shows an interest next summer.   ::)

RAFA OUT!!  :no

















 ;) Messin'.  Great post, mate, which I can only hope a lot more of ours fans take note of next time they find themselves nodding away to Stamp-on-her-head Collymore Stan Collymore on their way home from the office.  :butt
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Offline Anoynymouslad87

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #247 on: November 2, 2009, 08:37:49 pm »
In almost ALL cases, see Crouch, Bellamy, Sissoko, Josemi, Arbeloa, Alonso for example, Rafa has made money when he's offloaded players he's bought already.

This he has to do, to earn transfer money for his primary targets. See Bellamy being sold to fund Torres for example. If he could have kept him as backup, he would have done.

Rafa doesn't have the luxury that you do of simply spunking £30m on a new player without having to sell.

It really is that simple.

Okay, then what about Pennant, Gonzalez, Zenden, Barragan, kromkamp, Josemi, Morientes, Garcia.

Couldnt have spent more than two seasons at your club a piece, this CANNOT be done, it just doesn't work, make excuses all you like but you cant keep changing your team like that.

And the ones who've come in lately, Krygiakos, Riera, Babel, N'gog, Dossena, Lucas? are these some sort of vast improvements of the players I mentioned above? I THINK NOT.
Rafa is just replacing garbage with garbage.


Offline Anoynymouslad87

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #248 on: November 2, 2009, 08:39:02 pm »
Precisely. You're on here telling us that we should blame our manager? I wouldn't go on a United site and tell you to sack Ferguson. You know fuck all about what you're discussing.

thats not what Im saying, its just I look through this thread and you all give off the impression that Rafa has been faultless with his transfers, this is very far from reaility.

Offline Il Nina

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #249 on: November 2, 2009, 08:39:17 pm »
As the above posts stated 'Why don't you go back to caferouge'!
“Liverpool was made for me and I was made for Liverpool.”

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #250 on: November 2, 2009, 08:39:32 pm »
Mind them pencils don't get stuck up your nose.
;D
You can't be all bad if you're a Blackadder fan!
 
Was admittedly flippant but I do think you're being harsh on Rafa for saying he should concentrate on coaching and stop moaning about money. There are millions of us who are actually baffled that he isn't moaning about lack of money, as he's had his transfer budget mugged off him.
 
Question for you, do you not find it odd that we were unable to spend the money we got for Alonso? We got all £30m and to this date have paid just £5m for Aquilani.

Offline lfcmaster

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #251 on: November 2, 2009, 08:42:05 pm »
my biggest worry is that even if aquillani was fit were are still short of numbers in central midfield

i have a theory that alonso was one of the big leaders in the team which is another reason why we have lost so many games this season, we need another garry mac type player

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #252 on: November 2, 2009, 08:42:33 pm »
Okay, then what about Pennant, Gonzalez, Zenden, Barragan, kromkamp, Josemi, Morientes, Garcia.
You tell me how much money we lost on them in total. And by the way, we lost very, very little on Morientes. You've included some free transfers who were sold on by the way, so you might just find that your list is not a very clever one.

Offline Barney_Rubble

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #253 on: November 2, 2009, 08:44:11 pm »

btw are you the same The 5th Benitel as on TLW ?
87:13

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #254 on: November 2, 2009, 08:46:08 pm »
btw are you the same The 5th Benitel as on TLW ?
No mate, have never been on there. Dude must have ripped off my username.

Offline Barney_Rubble

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #255 on: November 2, 2009, 08:47:21 pm »

I wondered  :P cause he doesn't have the same views as you.

The Barney_Rubble on RAOTL ain't me either...
87:13

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #256 on: November 2, 2009, 08:48:34 pm »
I wondered  :P cause he doesn't have the same views as you.

The Barney_Rubble on RAOTL ain't me either...
haha! I'm irrationally annoyed now, I just hope I thought of it first!

Offline El Rey, por favor

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #257 on: November 2, 2009, 08:48:53 pm »
benitez is not without his critics and faults in the market, but his great buys outweigh his shit ones.
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Offline Barney_Rubble

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #258 on: November 2, 2009, 08:49:18 pm »

haha! I'm irrationally annoyed now, I just hope I thought of it first!

I had a sneaky look a while ago and he joined October 2008 so you're safe there. :D
« Last Edit: November 2, 2009, 08:51:10 pm by Barney_Rubble »
87:13

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #259 on: November 2, 2009, 08:52:13 pm »
I had a sneaky look a while ago and he joined October 2008 so you're safe there. :D
Back of the net. Might stalk him for a while and then sue. Thanks for the tipoff, I'll bung you 10% of the compo.

Offline Anoynymouslad87

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #260 on: November 2, 2009, 08:53:23 pm »
You tell me how much money we lost on them in total. And by the way, we lost very, very little on Morientes. You've included some free transfers who were sold on by the way, so you might just find that your list is not a very clever one.

to be honest, the prices are irrelevant (forget figures, lets look at players) its about offloading all those players and apparently replacing them with average players who you can bet your bottom dollar will be replaced by average players next season.
he'd have been better off working on the ones he had before.

You will not find a superstar for 5/6 million, it just wont happen (maybe Rafa thinks he can), it certainly wont happen overnight.
Evra and Vidic(both cost under 8 mill) hardly set the world alight when they first came, look at them now. Time, patience, Rafa should give it a try, cos if he thinks he can sign 5 million pound players here and there and they'll tear the league apart within a year he is massively mistaken.

Offline Barney_Rubble

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #261 on: November 2, 2009, 08:53:28 pm »

Back of the net. Might stalk him for a while and then sue. Thanks for the tipoff, I'll bung you 10% of the compo.

 ;) ;D

87:13

Offline roscommonred

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #262 on: November 2, 2009, 08:53:58 pm »
;D
You can't be all bad if you're a Blackadder fan!
 
Was admittedly flippant but I do think you're being harsh on Rafa for saying he should concentrate on coaching and stop moaning about money. There are millions of us who are actually baffled that he isn't moaning about lack of money, as he's had his transfer budget mugged off him.
 
Question for you, do you not find it odd that we were unable to spend the money we got for Alonso? We got all £30m and to this date have paid just £5m for Aquilani.

I'm not that bad at all really, but I do have long held views on benitez.
I certainly couldn't be accused of knee-jerking, I haven't believed in what he's been doing for a number of years now.

Yes I agree about the use of funds. I can't be bothered to find it now but I did put together a post on Hicks and his antics back when they first took control, but that's not enough to explain poor tactics, performances etc, etc.

One thing I often read in here (and this is not directed at you) is Benitez' ability to improve players. The manc posting in here has listed players shipped in and out very quickly and he does have a point. Being a manc however, isn't going to attract anything much but abuse.

He hasn't improved very many players now has he?
After No.5 I said I didn't care if we never won another game. I was wrong.

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #263 on: November 2, 2009, 08:57:27 pm »
There are many examples where Rafa has clearly just signed players on the cheap to balance the squad. Pellegrino, Josemi, Kromkamp, Nunez, Gonzalez, Barragan, Itandje, Leto,... are examples of that. It's only natural that he'd be prepared to move them on quickly.

In particular in his first seasons, Rafa had an immense job to do to shape up the balance. If you look at today's squad, it's "cleaner". You can always improve, but my point here is not to evaluate if player A has been a success or not.

My point is to try and explain that Rafa has cleaned up the squad, so it's now a lot easier to see where we need to improve. And we can focus on specific areas as a result. Or, if you wish, spend more on a selected few.

The whole point with this is to have a tight squad. Man U have been in that situation for years. Makes it so much easier to focus the spendings. Which of course, is why Man U only need to make a couple of signings while we've needed to "waste" money on more. Naturally, with a tight squad and squad balance, you'll find it a lot easier to have patience with promising youngsters and you can give them time.

It all comes back to squad balance. Needs to be taken into consideration when you evaluate how successful Rafa has been in the transfer market. 

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline Fighting Irishman

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #264 on: November 2, 2009, 08:58:55 pm »
That's the best post I have read on here in a long, long time, great effort mate, makes me feel a bit better given our current circumstances.

Onwards and upwards, YNWA.

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #265 on: November 2, 2009, 08:59:20 pm »
That would be benitez.

The idea of the manager actually coaching the team instead of moaning about money.

Coaching.

I'm not the one making an issue of money, enough on here to do that.

I'm happy to clarify for you, sorry for making it so difficult to understand to begin with.

Ahhhh, I see. Your reasoning is so much clearer now.

Thanks. You're obviously an influential man, so I'll just join the back of the queue for people following your wisdom.

Offline ErinMc66

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #266 on: November 2, 2009, 08:59:48 pm »

He hasn't improved very many players now has he?

Just off the top of my head--Gerrard, Torres, Mascherano, Arbeloa, Alonso, Carragher, Agger, Aurelio, Crouch....the list really does go on.
"I don’t think I’ll ever leave . . . though to be honest I’ve never picked up the Sunday papers and seen, ‘Jamie Carragher is wanted by X’. That’d be nice, you know, just for a little ego boost . . . could it be arranged? I see other players, ‘Real Madrid want so and so’ and you think, ‘He’s f****** crap! Him?!'”

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #267 on: November 2, 2009, 08:59:59 pm »
to be honest, the prices are irrelevant (forget figures, lets look at players) its about offloading all those players and apparently replacing them with average players who you can bet your bottom dollar will be replaced by average players next season.
he'd have been better off working on the ones he had before.
You've completely missed my point from earlier, about needing to sell to upgrade.

You will not find a superstar for 5/6 million, it just wont happen (maybe Rafa thinks he can), it certainly wont happen overnight.
I'd respectfully give you Reina and Agger. Plus you're cheeky mentioning Vidic, given Fergie had never heard of him before Rafa bid for him!

Offline SadRed

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #268 on: November 2, 2009, 09:01:31 pm »
Okay, then what about Pennant, Gonzalez, Zenden, Barragan, kromkamp, Josemi, Morientes, Garcia.

Couldnt have spent more than two seasons at your club a piece, this CANNOT be done, it just doesn't work, make excuses all you like but you cant keep changing your team like that.

And the ones who've come in lately, Krygiakos, Riera, Babel, N'gog, Dossena, Lucas? are these some sort of vast improvements of the players I mentioned above? I THINK NOT.
Rafa is just replacing garbage with garbage.


Pennant gave 2 great seasons, Gonzalez we made profit,Zenden was free, Barragan (shows your desparation) was for a few thousand, Krompkamp, Josemi, Morientis were okay, but were few million pounds . Garcia was brilliant.

Kyriagkos is 4th choice CB for 1 million. Riera has been brilliant, Ngog has scored more than Michael owen, is 20 year old, and cost 1.5 million, Lucas has been excellent, no matter what the fuck mancs want to make out pissed all over Scholes, Dossena is good player but not been needed coz Insua has been excellent.

Shall I count United flops in this way then, Wellbeck, Fabio, Obertan, Andersen, Nani, Valencia, O Shea, Foster, Tosic. Just to let you know the bollocks you typed.

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #269 on: November 2, 2009, 09:02:14 pm »
Thanks. You're obviously an influential man, so I'll just join the back of the queue for people following your wisdom.
I'm right behind you. I'm converted now, it was the bit about not improving players that convinced me. Genius.

Offline bravoco

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #270 on: November 2, 2009, 09:03:25 pm »
One thing I often read in here (and this is not directed at you) is Benitez' ability to improve players. The manc posting in here has listed players shipped in and out very quickly and he does have a point. Being a manc however, isn't going to attract anything much but abuse.

He hasn't improved very many players now has he?

Off the top of my head, but players from our current first team:
Reina, Carra, Insua, Aurelio, Lucas, Gerrard, Mascherano, Benayoun, Kuyt, Torres have all improved under Rafa

Plus there are those who clearly improved during their time here, but for a variety of reasons moved on:
Crouch, Alonso, Arbeloa

Offline the_prodigal_s0n

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #271 on: November 2, 2009, 09:04:59 pm »
He hasn't improved very many players now has he?
I strongly disagree. He massively improved half of his initial squad that we won the Champions League with. If he hadn't, we wouldn't have come close to winning it. Biscan, Finnan, Traore are some of the players that improved in that squad.

Gerrard and Carragher have improved massively since he's come to the club. Carragher was nowhere near the best in Europe and in Rafa's first few seasons he became that. Gerrard hadn't scored over 8 goals in a season before Rafa. He's got over 20 in 3 of Rafa's 5 seasons.

I hadn't seen much of them before Rafa arrived, but I suspect that Alonso, Crouch, Arbeloa, Torres, Reina and many others have improved immensely since Rafa signed them. Torres hadn't scored over 14 goals (I think) in a season before Rafa brought him to the club. He got 33 in his first season.

Benayoun is another one who has improved massively. He was a decent player at mid-table sides before arriving and he arrived as a bit of an enigma, but very inconsistent. For the second half of last season he was probably the best, and certainly the most influential, player in the league.

There's plenty more examples to show that he's massively improved players' games.

Offline SirRyanGiggs

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #272 on: November 2, 2009, 09:10:35 pm »
In that case if we win the league this season with a net profit of >60 million thanks to Ronaldo then Mr. Ferguson must be the greatest manager of all tim....
oh wait, he already is

Offline RyanBabelsFish

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #273 on: November 2, 2009, 09:11:18 pm »
Pennant gave 2 great seasons, Gonzalez we made profit,Zenden was free, Barragan (shows your desparation) was for a few thousand, Krompkamp, Josemi, Morientis were okay, but were few million pounds . Garcia was brilliant.

Kyriagkos is 4th choice CB for 1 million. Riera has been brilliant, Ngog has scored more than Michael owen, is 20 year old, and cost 1.5 million, Lucas has been excellent, no matter what the fuck mancs want to make out pissed all over Scholes, Dossena is good player but not been needed coz Insua has been excellent.

Shall I count United flops in this way then, Wellbeck, Fabio, Obertan, Andersen, Nani, Valencia, O Shea, Foster, Tosic. Just to let you know the bollocks you typed.


Quite utterly ridiculous and showing you know very little.

How do you count half of those United players as flops?

Wellbeck -useful, on a par with N'gog surely
Fabio - very highly rated and just 19
Obertan - an excellent prospect, very talented and just 20
Anderson - Gone off the boil a little, still a great little player. (Rather have him than Lucas?)
Nani - A disappointment, yet a proper wide man, offers far more threat than Kuyt
Valencia - We were interested, judging him on the amount of appearances he's made so far seems stupid
O'Shea - Not a bad defender by any means (Remind me how much he cost again?)
Foster - Their Carson perhaps. Cheaper than Cavalieri
My Tips @ www.inside-bet.com

RH: "You're under pressure as manager of Liverpool if you lose two games at any point in the season and we've already lost, five I think, out of eight, or is it four?"

Offline Old No7

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #274 on: November 2, 2009, 09:11:34 pm »
Just to go back to the original post, top article and must have taken a while to do the research

well done

Offline ErinMc66

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #275 on: November 2, 2009, 09:11:56 pm »
In that case if we win the league this season with a net profit of >60 million thanks to Ronaldo then Mr. Ferguson must be the greatest manager of all tim....
oh wait, he already is

Go away.  It's past your bedtime.
"I don’t think I’ll ever leave . . . though to be honest I’ve never picked up the Sunday papers and seen, ‘Jamie Carragher is wanted by X’. That’d be nice, you know, just for a little ego boost . . . could it be arranged? I see other players, ‘Real Madrid want so and so’ and you think, ‘He’s f****** crap! Him?!'”

Offline Jon G

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #276 on: November 2, 2009, 09:13:43 pm »
In that case if we win the league this season with a net profit of >60 million thanks to Ronaldo then Mr. Ferguson must be the greatest manager of all tim....
oh wait, he already is

This coming from the bellend who thought the only reason we won last week was down to the ref ;D
NOTHING GREAT HAS EVER BEEN ACHIEVED WITHOUT PASSION - CARRAGHER 23

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #277 on: November 2, 2009, 09:14:30 pm »
oh wait, he already is
Do you genuinely think that? Interested to know. There are plenty who would know, who say he can't manage or coach his way out of a paper bag and has no clue about the tactical side of the game.

Great motivator, I'll give you. But great manager, or even greatest of all time? Far from it. Call me biased all you will, but I don't think you'd find many neutrals agreeing with that statement either.

Offline Il Nina

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #278 on: November 2, 2009, 09:14:42 pm »
I strongly disagree. He massively improved half of his initial squad that we won the Champions League with. If he hadn't, we wouldn't have come close to winning it. Biscan, Finnan, Traore are some of the players that improved in that squad.

Gerrard and Carragher have improved massively since he's come to the club. Carragher was nowhere near the best in Europe and in Rafa's first few seasons he became that. Gerrard hadn't scored over 8 goals in a season before Rafa. He's got over 20 in 3 of Rafa's 5 seasons.

I hadn't seen much of them before Rafa arrived, but I suspect that Alonso, Crouch, Arbeloa, Torres, Reina and many others have improved immensely since Rafa signed them. Torres hadn't scored over 14 goals (I think) in a season before Rafa brought him to the club. He got 33 in his first season.

Benayoun is another one who has improved massively. He was a decent player at mid-table sides before arriving and he arrived as a bit of an enigma, but very inconsistent. For the second half of last season he was probably the best, and certainly the most influential, player in the league.

There's plenty more examples to show that he's massively improved players' games.

Exactly mate.

Not to mention the amount of players who have been called into their international squads as they have improved at Liverpool under Rafa... Insua the newest to be called. And Mascharano even being made Argentine captain at one point. The majority of our players, past and present (under Rafa) owe a lot to the man; the likes of Reina, Torres and Gerrard (to name a few) have come out and said this at one point or another.
“Liverpool was made for me and I was made for Liverpool.”

Offline Hulting

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #279 on: November 2, 2009, 09:15:01 pm »
great post...