Topic: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE

[CraigDS]

32000 cases in france today... fucking hell.

3 or so weeks behind France they said didn’t they?

[Zeb]

There was talk of this yesterday. I am supposed to be going to my Dad's in Wales on the 25th October to spend a couple of weeks with him. Hmmmm.

Sure you'll have seen, Sky news has verified the letter going round is genuine. Welsh government saying no decision has been formally taken yet.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-wales-to-enter-17-day-circuit-break-lockdown-leaked-letter-reveals-12107052

In response to the leaked letter, a Welsh government spokesperson said: "The measures we have put in place at both a local and a national level, with help from the public, have kept the spread of the virus under check.

"However, there is a growing consensus that we now need to introduce a different set of measures and actions to respond to the virus as it is spreading across Wales more quickly through the autumn and winter.

"We are actively considering advice from SAGE and our TAC Group. A 'fire break' set of measures to control COVID-19, similar to that described in the SAGE papers, is under consideration in Wales.

"As the first minister set out in his press conference on Friday, we have discussed this advice with stakeholders and partners. But no decisions have been made."

[killer-heels]

For the second time I have had a message from the NHS app saying possible covid exposure. Then i get a message saying dont stress we have assessed risk and take a chill pill. Maybe not quite in those words.

Anyone had something like that?

[Zeb]

For the second time I have had a message from the NHS app saying possible covid exposure. Then i get a message saying dont stress we have assessed risk and take a chill pill. Maybe not quite in those words.

Anyone had something like that?

Yeah. They had the 'chill out' message added because they can't stop the initial message being sent by the app (Google/Apple thing).

[Bincey]

Interesting, although is comparisons really that helpful? The first wave we had inadequate testing (we still do, but somewhat better) so we'd have no real idea of the wider community spread. So maybe Wave 2 and the inevitable Wave 3 would be a better indicator? Also, the spread is only now really creeping into older people, which may make these stats not that useful.

Sorry, not sure I follow. As djahern says the average age of ICU admissions has been fairly similar in both 'waves'. Also, not sure what you mean about testing. Unless i'm missing something, I don't see how that affects these reports?

[killer-heels]

Yeah. They had the 'chill out' message added because they can't stop the initial message being sent by the app (Google/Apple thing).

So is there any information around what they mean by this exposure? Like how far back, vicinity etc?

[Zeb]

So is there any information around what they mean by this exposure? Like how far back, vicinity etc?

Not in such detail. There is info on the algorithm: https://covid19.nhs.uk/risk-scoring-algorithm.html

The app uses Bluetooth signal strength between devices to estimate the distance between two people. It estimates the distance for that encounter as one of three levels: Close, Medium and Far.

It is highly likely that encounters identified as “Close” are significantly within 2 metres and that those identified as “Far” are most likely over 4 metres away.

Those identified as “Medium” will include encounters that are close to 2 metres away; some slightly under and some slightly over.

And there's more on the page there on how they weight it from there.

[killer-heels]

Not in such detail. There is info on the algorithm: https://covid19.nhs.uk/risk-scoring-algorithm.html

And there's more on the page there on how they weight it from there.

It didn’t state on the message the ranking, be it low, medium or high.

[Zeb]

It didn’t state on the message the ranking, be it low, medium or high.

So far as I know, we just get to see the end result of the algorithm deciding if it's anything to do something about or not. Do know for myself that 'possibles' can be 2m+ away and the other side of a window.

[killer-heels]

So far as I know, we just get to see the end result of the algorithm deciding if it's anything to do something about or not. Do know for myself that 'possibles' can be 2m+ away and the other side of a window.

Thanks. To be honest I work a mix of at home and in a store so I have pretty much accepted that I am getting it.

[Rhi]

Sure you'll have seen, Sky news has verified the letter going round is genuine. Welsh government saying no decision has been formally taken yet.

I hadn't seen that, so thanks! The talk yesterday was that they'll make the decision on Monday. I'll just wait and see what the decision is. It's a bit frustrating as my Dad lives in a part of Wales with a very low number of cases, and I live in a part of England with a relatively low number of cases. But I do think a national lockdown is the right way to go. It's just a bit ridiculous that the devolved nations have to go it alone.

[jillcwhomever]

For the second time I have had a message from the NHS app saying possible covid exposure. Then i get a message saying dont stress we have assessed risk and take a chill pill. Maybe not quite in those words.

Anyone had something like that?

I had one message like that last night, after we heard one of our managers had been found positive.

[thaddeus]

I hadn't seen that, so thanks! The talk yesterday was that they'll make the decision on Monday. I'll just wait and see what the decision is. It's a bit frustrating as my Dad lives in a part of Wales with a very low number of cases, and I live in a part of England with a relatively low number of cases. But I do think a national lockdown is the right way to go. It's just a bit ridiculous that the devolved nations have to go it alone.

This is probably an incredibly stupid question so apologies in advance.  Is the payment of furlough (and other Covid-19 payment schemes) in the devolved nations agreed and paid for from Westminster?  I'm trying to get it clear in my head if the devolved nations being more proactive on lockdowns than England is one of cost or ideology.

[Rhi]

This is probably an incredibly stupid question so apologies in advance.  Is the payment of furlough (and other Covid-19 payment schemes) in the devolved nations agreed and paid for from Westminster?  I'm trying to get it clear in my head if the devolved nations being more proactive on lockdowns than England is one of cost or ideology.

Last time around, fulrough was arranged and administered via Westminster/HMRC(?). I'm unsure how the grants/loan system differed in England/Wales. I suspect it predominantly came from UK Govt rather than from the Welsh Govt budget. There's been no confirmation on whether there will be any extra support this time / what level it'll be set at. We'll see on Monday about that, I guess! There has been no provision from UK Govt beyond the 2/3rds of pay thing, has there? So should be fairly clear who is funding the next / future "circuit breakers".

[reddebs]

So is there any information around what they mean by this exposure? Like how far back, vicinity etc?

I had those messages today at work and it's pretty instant on the exposure as we knew we had a client in who has just gone back to work after recovering from it.

I got the messages within 20 minutes of her arriving.

[killer-heels]

I had those messages today at work and it's pretty instant on the exposure as we knew we had a client in who has just gone back to work after recovering from it.

I got the messages within 20 minutes of her arriving.

Mines came through at around 7pm but the only time I left the house today was a walk through the local park around 12.

[reddebs]

Mines came through at around 7pm but the only time I left the house today was a walk through the local park around 12.

Well that sucks then, at least I knew why, when and who I'd been in contact with.

[killer-heels]

Well that sucks then, at least I knew why, when and who I'd been in contact with.

It’s the second time it has come through. The other was at 2am. Maybe there is something my other half isn’t telling me.

[CraigDS]

Surely it only comes through when someone tests positive and the system acknowledges that? So that likely won’t be 20 mins after you see someone unless they’ve come out the house whilst waiting for a result.

[killer-heels]

Surely it only comes through when someone tests positive and the system acknowledges that? So that likely won’t be 20 mins after you see someone unless they’ve come out the house whilst waiting for a result.

Could it be someone you passed in say a park or supermarket?

[jillcwhomever]

Surely it only comes through when someone tests positive and the system acknowledges that? So that likely won’t be 20 mins after you see someone unless they’ve come out the house whilst waiting for a result.

I would guess so. We heard that a colleague had been confirmed with it but only had the confirmation later that evening.

[CraigDS]

I would guess so. We heard that a colleague had been confirmed with it but only had the confirmation later that evening.

Similarly my gf was told someone she teaches in a 6th form class had tested positive, then a few hours later she got the alert on the app to isolate. No knowing for sure that’s who it was but all the timings seemed to fit.

Not sure why there are warnings which you’re then told not to worry about. Imagine it’s something to do with different warning thresholds between Apple/Google and NHS.

[reddebs]

Surely it only comes through when someone tests positive and the system acknowledges that? So that likely won’t be 20 mins after you see someone unless they’ve come out the house whilst waiting for a result.

The client we had in the salon had had a positive test a couple of weeks ago but had recovered and gone back to work on Monday, so we assumed it had picked that test result up.

[CraigDS]

The client we had in the salon had had a positive test a couple of weeks ago but had recovered and gone back to work on Monday, so we assumed it had picked that test result up.

Wouldn’t have thought so. Would be strange to give people warnings for people who tested positive beyond 2 weeks prior.

[filopastry]

Times reporting that there is increasing optimism that the rollout of the Astra Zeneca vaccine could begin in January, although also continuing with the recent line that not everyone will be vaccinated.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/hope-for-covid-vaccine-at-new-year-25b52b86s

The NHS is preparing to introduce a coronavirus vaccine soon after Christmas. Trials have shown it will cut infections and save lives, Jonathan Van-Tam, the deputy chief medical officer, has privately revealed.

He told MPs last week that stage three trials of the vaccine created at Oxford University and being manufactured by AstraZeneca mean a mass rollout is on the horizon as early as December. Thousands of NHS staff are to undergo training to administer a vaccine before the end of the year.

The government changed the law this weekend to expand the number of health professionals able to inoculate the public. The regulations will enable pharmacists, dentists, midwives and paramedics to administer jabs.

Van-Tam gave a briefing to MPs on Monday afternoon in which he said: “We aren’t light years away from it. It isn’t a totally unrealistic suggestion that we could deploy a vaccine soon after Christmas. That would have a significant impact on hospital admissions and deaths.”

The first vaccines will be given to the elderly and vulnerable and to vaccinate those most at risk will take several months. Most people will not be given the jab.

An MP who attended another briefing with Van-Tam said he was “very bullish about the third stage AstraZeneca results, which he expects between the end of this month and the end of next”. The MP said: “Van-Tam expects it to protect the elderly and vulnerable. He gave us to understand that it stopped the virus ‘shedding’ in the young. He said he would expect vaccination to start in January.”

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson warned last week that there might never be a vaccine, but insiders say he did so because the government does not want to “overpromise and underdeliver”.

A health department official confirmed a “robust and comprehensive training programme” was being developed by the NHS and Public Health England to train more people to administer injections.

Matt Hancock, the health secretary, said: “These legal changes will help us in to make sure we are ready to roll out a safe and effective Covid-19 vaccine as soon as it has passed clinical trials and undergone rigorous checks by the regulator.” Van-Tam added: “Vaccines are being developed at a speed that, if successful, will save lives.”

[LFC_R_BOSS]

Speaking to a mate today who’s mums got cancer, his dad in his 70’s has tested positive for covid . The covid was  brought in by one of his mums carers . Carer went to work even though she had a temperature. Surely the government should be paying full wages to people with symptoms till they have a negative test , especially in this sector. We’ve become a nation used to going in work Ill and just mugging through.

[west_london_red]

I have been randomly selected for some Ipsos Mori to have a antigen test to see if I have had the virus. Pretty sure I havnt had it but would be good to know.

[killer-heels]

Times reporting that there is increasing optimism that the rollout of the Astra Zeneca vaccine could begin in January, although also continuing with the recent line that not everyone will be vaccinated.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/hope-for-covid-vaccine-at-new-year-25b52b86s

So it’s actually going to be the right wing Tory idea of protecting and isolating the vulnerable and herd immunity for the rest of us.

[west_london_red]

So it’s actually going to be the right wing Tory idea of protecting and isolating the vulnerable and herd immunity for the rest of us.

I don’t think it’s a right wing idea necessarily, some people will always be prioritised over others due to their susceptibility or vulnerability to the virus, the logistics, the competition to get hold of the vaccine etc. They were never going to roll it out to everyone at least at the beginning. But first things first, let’s get a safe and effective vaccine, we can argue over who gets it and who doesn’t later.

[reddebs]

Wouldn’t have thought so. Would be strange to give people warnings for people who tested positive beyond 2 weeks prior.

No idea where I'd been then other than into town for a butty at dinner.

[TepidT2O]

The line has moved from vaccinating the whole country in as short a time as possible, to vaccinating half the population to most people not getting vaccinated.

Quite the shift that has quietly happened.

If vaccine availability is an issue they need to be honest.  There are 7billion people in the world, it’s not a silly excuse.

Personally, I would want it. I work in an environment where it’s very difficult to socially distance, and I’m with 30 other people in a small room with no masks. 

Hey ho.

[jillcwhomever]

Similarly my gf was told someone she teaches in a 6th form class had tested positive, then a few hours later she got the alert on the app to isolate. No knowing for sure that’s who it was but all the timings seemed to fit.

Not sure why there are warnings which you’re then told not to worry about. Imagine it’s something to do with different warning thresholds between Apple/Google and NHS.

That is what concerns me. Classycarra sent me a link though which does say only if you get any symptoms should you get tested for it. So far, I am normal. It’s hard to judge sometimes.

[[new username under construction]]

The line has moved from vaccinating the whole country in as short a time as possible, to vaccinating half the population to most people not getting vaccinated.

Quite the shift that has quietly happened.

If vaccine availability is an issue they need to be honest.  There are 7billion people in the world, it’s not a silly excuse.

Personally, I would want it. I work in an environment where it’s very difficult to socially distance, and I’m with 30 other people in a small room with no masks. 

Hey ho.

It'll be huge boost just knowing it's in circulation and starting to get going, I'm still sticking with the idea that vulnerable and over 70's get it free and everyone else will have to pay

[Zeb]

From what else is coming out from government, or at least what they're currently boosting, seems like they're hoping for fast turnaround time testing for the next year. A little sceptical of it personally because of the trial of a spit test in Salford just dying on its arse but does point towards a bit more than trying to vaccinate a few and devil take the rest. If we can get case numbers down enough for it to work then there's potential there to emulate some of the more successful countries, providing resourcing goes into and people buy into what's needed. Does concern me that the current North vs the government is opening more trust issues which this government is all too willing to piss about on at the best of times.

[TepidT2O]

They are talking June for the fast testing.

[Zeb]

That was one particular fast test, wasn't it? The government have already bought millions of saliva tests to put out. Suspect it'll help more to triage - fail the spit test, take a swab test - from what some of the US experts have been saying.

[west_london_red]

The line has moved from vaccinating the whole country in as short a time as possible, to vaccinating half the population to most people not getting vaccinated.

Quite the shift that has quietly happened.

If vaccine availability is an issue they need to be honest.  There are 7billion people in the world, it’s not a silly excuse.

Personally, I would want it. I work in an environment where it’s very difficult to socially distance, and I’m with 30 other people in a small room with no masks. 

Hey ho.

Far be it for me to defend the government, but I’m not sure that’s correct. There was at least one vaccine where they only orders 30m doses so not enough to vaccinate everyone, and others where they ordered 60m which assuming you need 2 doses in less then half the population, but then others they ordered 100m doses. Obviously they can order more later but at least based on the initial numbers that wasn’t the plan.

[Babel Time]

The line has moved from vaccinating the whole country in as short a time as possible, to vaccinating half the population to most people not getting vaccinated.

Quite the shift that has quietly happened.

If vaccine availability is an issue they need to be honest.  There are 7billion people in the world, it’s not a silly excuse.

Personally, I would want it. I work in an environment where it’s very difficult to socially distance, and I’m with 30 other people in a small room with no masks. 

Hey ho.

I believe they this due to the likelihood of the first vaccine being approved not being the most efficient one.

There is a good chance a more efficient vaccine is approved at a later date (currently ~180 in development).

To date UK has purchase about 400m doses from various vaccine developers (AZN, Pfizer, etc), so even with most vaccines requiring more than two doses we would have enough to vaccinate the entire UK three times over (should all of those be approved).

Bingham did state that should a vaccine with 95% efficiency be developed it would make sense to vaccinate all.

[TepidT2O]

I believe they this due to the likelihood of the first vaccine being approved not being the most efficient one.

There is a good chance a more efficient vaccine is approved at a later date (currently ~180 in development).

To date UK has purchase about 400m doses from various vaccine developers (AZN, Pfizer, etc), so even with most vaccines requiring more than two doses we would have enough to vaccinate the entire UK three times over (should all of those be approved).

Bingham did state that should a vaccine with 95% efficiency be developed it would make sense to vaccinate all.

This is a fair point

[killer-heels]

I don’t think it’s a right wing idea necessarily, some people will always be prioritised over others due to their susceptibility or vulnerability to the virus, the logistics, the competition to get hold of the vaccine etc. They were never going to roll it out to everyone at least at the beginning. But first things first, let’s get a safe and effective vaccine, we can argue over who gets it and who doesn’t later.

You can see what will happen though. Once and if there is a vaccine and the vulnerable get it, employers and the government will be in full overdrive to just shove people back into work with no time to care about younger people getting it and developing long term problem.

The vulnerable may be then immune but for the rest of the country it will be go back to work and just hope you don’t get it bad.

The second the vulnerable have it, we will be forced into business as usual.