Author Topic: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative  (Read 21938 times)

Offline Reds Flag

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #120 on: March 7, 2015, 01:03:44 am »
Brendan Rodgers thread. Little article

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/mar/06/brendan-rodgers-liverpool-manchester-city

Fantastic comments from a fantastic manager. I hope too that Brendan can build a dynasty here. Those who want him gone because we're not trouncing Chelsea at Stamford Bridge or because we didn't take Europe by storm in our first season back need their heads checking. Short-termism at its most reactionary and damaging.

I have absolutely every confidence that Brendan is the manager to take us forward for many years to come. :)

Offline Redshadow

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #121 on: March 7, 2015, 02:18:51 am »
Reserve judgement until end of season. Think we have gone for it first 3 months of this year shit or bust sort of time of the season and we seem to be the fittest side in premiership at the minute, granted good management ref sterling lucky ref SG. Top 4 will win me over, top 4 playing good football I will be happy club is in good hands for the foreseeable future.

Speechless

Love reading that piece from Guardian with only one big disappointment: BR saw the banner... hopefully he knows, and I'm sure he does, that the majority of fans always support him.
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Offline Mamadou

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #122 on: March 7, 2015, 02:46:34 am »
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/mar/06/brendan-rodgers-liverpool-manchester-city

Brendan Rodgers dismisses Manchester City link and puts Liverpool first

Manager says Liverpool is ‘my destination’ and plans to build a dynasty



Brendan Rodgers has removed his name from the list of candidates who could potentially replace Manuel Pellegrini this summer by declaring his priority is to build a new trophy-winning dynasty at Liverpool.

Pellegrini’s position is under scrutiny at Manchester City due to the champions’ lack of progress in the Premier League and Champions League, with last Sunday’s 2-1 loss at Liverpool undermining their hopes of retaining the title.

While Pep Guardiola would be first choice for any leading club should he decide to leave Bayern Munich, he has ruled out departing the Allianz Arena this summer. Rodgers also fits the criteria of an attacking, possession-minded coach that City’s chief executive Ferran Soriano and director of football Txiki Begiristain want at the Etihad Stadium.

The Liverpool manager has been touted as a possible replacement for Pellegrini since City’s defeat at Anfield, and has been courted by the reigning Premier League champions previously, but moved quickly to quash talk of any possible move. Liverpool host Blackburn Rovers in their FA Cup quarter-final on Sunday having hauled themselves back into contention for a Champions League place and Rodgers believes he is close to delivering long-term success to Anfield.

“That doesn’t distract me,” he said of the City link. “I chose to come to Liverpool because I hoped I could be here for many years. The speculation is just the nature of football I think. I remember earlier this season playing Ludogorets away and as I walked off I saw a banner that said ‘Rodgers Out’ so I never get too carried away. I always have that in the back of my mind, although it was near the dug-out and wasn’t someone with the away supporters. As long as the people here at Liverpool, the board, the supporters and the players are ultimately happy with the work, I would love to be here for as long as I can.

“We are working into an exciting phase after this season where hopefully, if we get young players tied to contracts, that will allow us to win trophies with this way of working. We’re on the way there and it’s about making the steps to challenge for major honours consistently and to win them. That’s what we want to do.”

Rodgers is under contract at Liverpool until 2018 having signed a new four-year deal last May but has never stayed in any coaching position longer than three years. Next season will be his fourth as Liverpool manager but he insists Anfield represents “a destination” rather than a staging post in his career.

He explained: “If I’m here after this year, and touch wood I go into the fourth year, this will be the longest period in any role I’ve been in football. After three years I’ve always moved a role or a job, from youth football right the way through. But I’ve always seen Liverpool as a club that, all being well, was going to be a destination for me not somewhere that was part of the journey.

“I really wanted to be here, to follow some incredible managers with a support that is unrivalled, and to have success knowing that I was young enough to create and build something. That is why I came here. I know I need to justify that by working well and winning trophies and hopefully that is the next step.

“For me there is great excitement at Liverpool with the young players coming through, with the development of the stadium, more supporters coming in because of that, and travelling the world promoting the club.”

Asked if he could envisage himself working for another English club, Rodgers replied: “Where do you go from Liverpool, one of the biggest clubs in the world? It is all hypothetical, Liverpool might sack me and then I need to be in work, but I’ve signed a deal here and hopefully I’ll earn enough time to warrant another one.”

a proper Liverpool manager
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Online kavah

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #123 on: March 7, 2015, 05:14:17 am »
Blimey there was a Rogers our banner? Was there much discussion on here about it?  I know I shouldn't be surprised but I am.

Offline Mamadou

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #124 on: March 7, 2015, 05:35:06 am »
whoever made it, should stick that banner up his arse
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Offline john_mac

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #125 on: March 7, 2015, 05:41:37 am »
whoever made it, should stick that banner up his arse

If it ever existed
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Offline Fitzy.

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #126 on: March 7, 2015, 06:51:54 am »
Wonderful post from E2K - only just returned to this thread after a busy couple of days, so a bit late to the party.


Offline Tobez

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #127 on: March 7, 2015, 09:02:18 am »
A lot of the noises coming from Rodgers in recent weeks - talking about wanting to win trophies, how important it would be for the squad to win something together - suggest that he is aware of the pressure that comes with the job, and that he isn't content to rest on his (ungilded) laurels from last season. I think also when you look at the money that was spent in summer and the number of players who came in, getting rid of Rodgers would have been an even more stupid decision. Clearly it was always going to take time for certain players to settle in, but now we have an extremely exciting young squad who are enjoying their football and getting results. We actually have genuine quality in depth around the field, which is a relatively novel sensation!

The main point I wanted to make though is that getting a first trophy would be such a huge boost to the players and the manager, it could really help us kick on. I think it was before the semi-final with Chelsea that Rodgers was talking about the effect the first League cup win had on Chelsea in 2005; once the mental block of winning something has been lifted, the sky's the limit. I genuinely think that if we are capable of winning the FA cup this season we'll be right up in the mix for the title next season.

Offline Banquo's Ghost

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #128 on: March 7, 2015, 09:14:38 am »
Blimey there was a Rogers our banner? Was there much discussion on here about it?  I know I shouldn't be surprised but I am.

I was astonished and ashamed at first, but reading what Brendan said again:

Quote
"I remember earlier this season playing Ludogorets away and as I walked off I saw a banner that said ‘Rodgers Out’ so I never get too carried away. I always have that in the back of my mind, although it was near the dug-out and wasn’t someone with the away supporters. As long as the people here at Liverpool, the board, the supporters and the players are ultimately happy with the work, I would love to be here for as long as I can."

He qualifies his observation with the note that it was not in the 'away supporters' - i.e. not in the LFC fans' section. It was always unlikely to be someone in our wonderful travelling support - likely a random Bulgarian trying to get in the news.

Great stuff from our manager, and the point he makes about how precarious any manager's job is these days, is well made and humble. I look forward to him recalling the same story in twenty years time while barely able to move for medals.
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Offline FlashingBlade

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #129 on: March 7, 2015, 09:18:26 am »
Intelligent , honest and down to earthy comments from Rogers on the ( Non existant purely press speculation) link to City and crucially non vague...media jumps on things like that. Though clearly Rogers is starting to look an attraction as a manager to other club, but as the man knows , he is at the top of the mountain already.


Offline the 92A

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #130 on: March 7, 2015, 10:01:55 am »
If it ever existed
First thing I thought, I cant remember ever seeing one and if there was there would be a commotion about it. It's not done that way with us and if John Mac cant remember seeing one that nails it for me. Journo in made up banner shock!
 edit. Just seen Flashing blades post. It wasnt Liverpool fans.
« Last Edit: March 7, 2015, 10:04:11 am by The 92A »
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Offline FlashingBlade

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #131 on: March 7, 2015, 10:13:11 am »
First thing I thought, I cant remember ever seeing one and if there was there would be a commotion about it. It's not done that way with us and if John Mac cant remember seeing one that nails it for me. Journo in made up banner shock!
 edit. Just seen Flashing blades post. It wasnt Liverpool fans.

92A-  re read and deleted mine...but left in my earthy comments typo! ;D

Offline john_mac

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #132 on: March 7, 2015, 10:53:24 am »
First thing I thought, I cant remember ever seeing one and if there was there would be a commotion about it. It's not done that way with us and if John Mac cant remember seeing one that nails it for me. Journo in made up banner shock!
 edit. Just seen Flashing blades post. It wasnt Liverpool fans.

Albie, I don't remember it. Was with plenty of people over there and don't remember anybody as much as mention it, even it was in another part of the ground. We had a good crowd over there, even with Bulgarians, and I reckon it would have caused a bit of discontent, even after they equalised late on, I think everyone knew the goal meant nothing and thought we were likely to go through.

As much as I love him, he does like a bit of rhetoric Brendan, and more than anyone I can remember has the media eating out of the Palm of his hand. Feels like he should do the Kenny now and then and tell them to fuck off.
« Last Edit: March 7, 2015, 12:04:55 pm by john_mac »
We'll See Things They'll Never See

Offline thejbs

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #133 on: March 7, 2015, 11:36:16 am »
Would be pretty disgusted if a Liverpool fan was responsible for the banner.  I don't even recall us going that far with Hodgson - and even the chanting ("Hodgson for England") was, albeit obviously intended, never quite as explicit as to say 'Hodgson out.'

Offline Nessy76

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #134 on: March 7, 2015, 11:44:08 am »
I was astonished and ashamed at first, but reading what Brendan said again:

He qualifies his observation with the note that it was not in the 'away supporters' - i.e. not in the LFC fans' section. It was always unlikely to be someone in our wonderful travelling support - likely a random Bulgarian trying to get in the news.

Great stuff from our manager, and the point he makes about how precarious any manager's job is these days, is well made and humble. I look forward to him recalling the same story in twenty years time while barely able to move for medals.

Maybe it was Fabio Borini.
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Offline SamAteTheRedAcid

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #135 on: March 7, 2015, 12:10:15 pm »
Maybe it was Fabio Borini.

:lmao

That interview is great. Rodgers gets it, in my opinion, and I hope he stays for ages and wins a shitload.
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Offline Jinxsy

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #136 on: March 7, 2015, 12:37:05 pm »
I think what the OP has identified here is merely one, currently obvious, example of something that is endemic in the way that we tend to talk about football.

At any time, we can step back from this and try instead to understand how the game really works. Most of us don't understand a great deal about that. I know far more now than I did before I joined this forum, but I'm light years behind some of the posters I enjoy reading. So I'll try to continue to resist the narrative, screw The Plotline, and maybe go a little easier on some of those who lap it all up like thirsty dogs at a bowl of warm piss.

SNIP

I've just picked this up - late to it and all that, but this a wonderful post Nessy.
It sums up precisely how I feel about the way this game, our game has been elevated by bullshit into the financial stratosphere from it's humble origins.
The humble origins (the game for the working classes) never took it to the stratoshperic heights of commercial success or mind-blowing payments for players, staff and agents though and the bullshit that did get it there is what keeps the smug twats in print, media and on our screens in their comfortable life-stlyes. It's a house built on sand, except the sand is the bullshit which, thankfully for those who benefit from it, is a phenomenal commodity that seems to actual grown in value and volume the more that its used. Crazy shit there. Inverse supply and demand. The more of it there is, the more of it "we" want. The more of "us" who want it, the more valuable it becomes. And so on and so fucking boring.

Brilliant post - brilliant OP - no place for any of this shit in the modern game though.

Pelligrini out!

Offline redalways

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #137 on: March 7, 2015, 01:00:00 pm »
Speechless

Love reading that piece from Guardian with only one big disappointment: BR saw the banner... hopefully he knows, and I'm sure he does, that the majority of fans always support him.

The way I read that was that it was a Ludogrets supporter with the banner. City dont deserve Pelligrini. They would be mad to get rid of him.

Offline Keith Lard

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #138 on: March 7, 2015, 01:31:00 pm »
When a young player does something impressive on a football pitch it is often described as the exuberance and fearlessness of youth – they haven’t learned the feeling that comes with disappointment, the doubt caused by mistakes.  By contrast, when a young player does poorly by making a mistake or an error of judgement it is put down to inexperience and rawness – they have much to learn, apparently.  These two opposite analyses represent the same narrative-driven punditry that football followers indulge in on a regular basis.  By rolling out and using the platitudes of footballing parlance you can rarely go wrong.  You are sitting in a safe zone, offering little in the way of actual insight but not ruffling feathers or stepping into controversial territory.  Whether such analysis is accurate is not really an obstacle to countless people placing their commentary along well-trodden lines.

By the same token, such narrative-driven comments often emerge on these boards especially when focusing on the negative.  For two and half years now Brendan Rodgers has seen his Liverpool team emerge, grow, excite, stumble, regroup and “go again”.  The general trajectory is one of progress, all be it not always linear progress.  However, extrapolating overwhelming positives from what is happening at Liverpool under Rodgers is, in my opinion, the sensible approach.  There are far more positives than negatives over the past 30 odd months, especially when you consider the mainly dour era that followed Benitez’s reign.

However, like the young player daring to make a mistake, Rodgers is regularly reminded by the club’s fans that he has a lot to learn.  This is a line that pops up only when the narrative demands it. When the upset fan requires a hook to hang his ‘analysis’ upon.  It’s a straightforward qualification and explanation for a poor performance, regardless of the context or events of that defeat. 

It was a line that was first used in Rodgers first few months at the club when his team stuttered through a very uninspiring opening set of fixtures.  Wise owls looked on with their favourite line: ‘he has a lot to learn’.  The fact that this was being spouted by fans with little or no coaching experience didn’t hold them back.  The fact Rodgers has forgotten more than they ever knew didn’t hold them back either. 

So did sustained progress shut these nay sayers up? Well no, they merely loitered; waiting for their next chance to patronise one of Europe’s most exciting young coaches.  Jumping on a poor result like a tramp on warm chips, scrambling for their lives to inform us that Rodgers isn’t perfect…far from it in fact. The guy was a busted flush to some!

This isn’t to say that Rodgers hasn’t made mistakes, he’s made plenty – just like any other manager you could care to mention.  But when it was Rafa the narrative was different; if he lost a game in the league it was because he didn’t understand it properly. But rest assured, the reductive narrative was set and would be picked up whenever convenient.

The point is, if Rodgers does have ‘a lot to learn’ is this not just as true in victory as well as in defeat? Why can he only take lessons from bad outcomes? Surely the underlying truth still holds.  So why do these same fans not sustain their position in the good times? Rodgers went from demi-god to idiot in the space of about 4 months in the minds of some, but these negative followers rarely appeared with their wisdom when things were going well.  But this didn’t hold back the revisionists who pointed to better times under Rodgers as being the work of others – credit is offered elsewhere.

The expediency of using a simple narrative to explain things is fine, to some extent, but becomes malicious in its worst incarnation.  When the chips are down people strike for the Achilles heel and Rodgers’ limited experience is the best and most convenient stick that can be used to beat him. In reality, defeats (which always happen) are multi-causal, multi-faceted and often difficult to pin down to any one reason. 

Following a great win against the league champions, it’s easy to regard football with optimism and it usually leads to more measured views compared to the reactions following a poor defeat.  Would it not be wise for some to possibly hold fire on their vitriol and blame at the next sign of trouble? As you usually end up looking like a mealy mouthed, spoilt and ignorant whopper when normality returns and the team starts winning again.


A very fine post sir.
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Offline E2K

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #139 on: March 7, 2015, 01:42:15 pm »
As much as I love him, he does like a bit of rhetoric Brendan, and more than anyone I can remember has the media eating out of the Palm of his hand. Feels like he should do the Kenny now and then and tell them to fuck off.

I understand what you’re saying but it’s really better for everyone concerned, Brendan himself most of all, that he doesn’t.

I loathe the football media, absolutely loathe them. There are many reasons for that which I won’t go into here because this post is already long enough (although you can probably go ahead and picture BBC’s entire line-up of pundits as a starting point), but the bias I saw perpetrated against Rafa Benítez during his time in charge is what will always stick with me the most. I was never a huge reader of newspapers or watcher of television punditry anyway, but even so, I started to notice quite early on in his reign that Rafa wasn’t getting anywhere near the level of credit, or at least objectivity, that he deserved, that other managers got. I mentioned the specific narratives earlier, but there were many: he’s too cold, he doesn’t understand the English game, zonal-marking is an abomination were the main, recurring ones, but what about calling Everton a small club (he didn’t, of course, it was more a dig at the negative approach of David Moyes which saw him leave Everton after over 10 years without an away win at Anfield, Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge or Arsenal), his supposed Keegan-like meltdown in January 2009, no good signings in the £3m-£10m range changed to £3m-£5m eight months later in order to omit Pepe Reina (hatchet-job courtesy of Alan Hansen, full details here)? In the midst of making Liverpool a European powerhouse and slowly building a challenger for the League title up against the financial juggernauts of Chelsea and Manchester United, he was treated with less respect than the likes of Roy Hodgson, Harry Redknapp and Sam Allardyce, despite a collective haul of one FA Cup and a few League titles in Sweden and Denmark against a man who had twice out-thought and out-played Real Madrid’s original Galacticos in Spain and won a Champions League with Djimi Traoré.

Something was off and the realisation only dawned on me slowly over the course of his six years in the job: they simply didn’t like him. Remember during his last season in charge, when he invited Paul Tomkins along to Melwood to do an interview? As I recall, the general reaction in the mainstream media was harsh, the overall impression given that Rafa had some nerve to grant access like that to someone who wasn’t even a journalist. It was largely unspoken, of course, but the dismissal of Tomkins as nothing but a “blogger” by one writer told you all you needed to know. A few months later, the level and nature of the cheerleading and celebration that took place as media-favourite Roy Hodgson was appointed as Rafa’s successor told you everything. This was no objective journalism; instead, what we got was selective judgements handed down by individuals who had left their collective integrity at the door, highlighted (or lowlighted), I thought, by a deeply personal salvo from Henry Winter who characterised the man who would later donate £96,000 to the Hillsborough Family Support Group and break down in tears at the Hillsborough memorial service as a “cold political animal”.

Now, if you think this doesn’t affect people’s views and perspectives, you’re wrong. We know there are people who let this seep in, the ones whose heads you see religiously stuck in some tabloid or other in the canteen on morning break, telling you with real conviction that Manchester United are signing Gareth Bale and bringing back Cristiano Ronaldo and Paul Pogba or, to use an old example, that Rafa Benítez has spent £500m and signed 150 players because that’s what it says here. In fact, this post from earlier in the tread sums the reality up nicely as far as I’m concerned:

Basically, it's much easier these days for others to from opinions for you, what with the mass media and all that today.

In the older days, the fans had to form their own opinions. What with the mass deluge of critical pieces from air headed pundits like Alan Shearer, etc, I'm sure some of that subconsciously influences opinion.

All this bullshit that fans have to dodge these days is incredible - sometimes the bullshit sticks to some. It was much better in the old days when the media wasn't the middle man between fans and manager like it is today, and I think loyalty came easier as a result of that.

My respect for Rafa Benítez and Kenny Dalglish is huge, for reasons that go beyond mere results on the pitch, and, with my feelings towards the majority of the mainstream football media being what they are, I enjoyed it immensely that they had no appreciation (or even tolerance, at times) for them. Rafa always remained polite with it, Kenny maybe less so, but as a supporter I loved it. Fuck them and their snide agendas, right? But a supporter can have that attitude. The problem is that when Rafa and Kenny needed breathing space, when results were poor during the 2009/10 and 2011/12 seasons respectively or when the alleged Luis Suárez racial abuse of Patrice Evra took place, followed later by the refused handshake at Old Trafford, or the alleged racial abuse of Tom Adeyemi around that same time, neither of them got it. Instead of the pressure being lifted a little bit, it was gleefully applied with increased force in the figurative equivalent of what happened to Phil Coutinho after his goal against Manchester City the other week (i.e. Lovren apparently trying to remove his jersey forcefully from his body before his teammates took it in turns to pile on top of him). It helped neither them nor the club that the media had so few friendly voices to give them some respite. And as little time as I have for the majority of these people, I’ve come to the conclusion that, as much as I love them, Rafa and Kenny didn’t help themselves, especially given the proliferation of mass media in the 21st century.

Which brings me to Brendan Rodgers. I can’t have been the only one who heard his riposte to Roberto Martinez’s view that “the derby comes at the perfect moment for us…it can kick-start our season after the good moment we are sharing” a few weeks back (“well I think they had their first win in 8 games, so I can only talk about our momentum”) and thought that the media would have eaten Rafa alive for that (innocuous as it was). But they didn’t. And I also got the distinct impression that, at his lowest ebb in October and November, Brendan wasn’t getting quite the same kind of negative treatment that previous Liverpool managers have experienced. For example:

In 2008/09, Liverpool came 2nd, having gathered 86 points (they also went to the quarter-finals of the Champions League). The following season, 2009/10, they started with 19 points from a possible 36. By game 28, they sat on 48 points.

In 2013/14, Liverpool came 2nd under Brendan Rodgers, having gathered 84 points. The following season, 2014/15, they started with 14 points from a possible 36. By game 28, they sat on 51 points.

Similar runs, but the respective media coverage (or narratives) regarding each manager could hardly have been more different. Now it could be argued that Rafa had been in the job for longer and that Brendan deserved the benefit of the doubt more as a result (five and a half years and two and a half years respectively), but it could similarly be argued that a man with Rafa's track record deserved far more respect than he got. Either way, that’s not the way the media works. Rafa bugged them; he was foreign; his tactics were different; his approach, to everyone from players to journalists, was more standoffish. Brendan includes them. Instead of inviting a “blogger” (Paul Tomkins is, of course, a writer, and a damn good one) to Melwood, Brendan invites Robbie Savage. Robbie Savage! Talk about inviting the fox into the henhouse. Savage is the worst kind of pundit, the one whose main attributes are that he’s a character, his mouth as loud as his hair and clothes, and he’s not afraid to speak his mind. These kinds of people, the likes of Steve Claridge, Craig Burley, I remember Tim Sherwood getting in on the act for a time as well, tormented Rafa. Robbie Savage is the latest of that breed of pundit, not thoughtful or insightful in the least, happy to get names and words wrong and butcher the very syntax of sentences without a care in the world. And Brendan invited him in. Just over a year later? Savage prefaces a column in which he butchers most of his signings by saying that “I am a fan of Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers and rate him highly as a coach”.

That’s called benefit of the doubt, and it helps. Savage was far less kind the other week about Manuel Pellegrini, unleashing simplistic arguments about 4-4-2. the same approach with which he won the League and League Cup last season. People listen to this shit. Now I’m not saying that Brendan should suddenly go inviting someone like Martin Samuel around for a cosy chat like Tim Sherwood has apparently done, a man whose writing style perfectly suits the rag that he writes for, but it does no harm to keep them happy. We’re talking about the expediency of negative narratives; I think we can all agree that the media have a big hand in conjuring up and reinforcing such narratives. I still recall with dread a comment made by Martin Broughton, temporary chairman of the club back in 2010, who stated in a communication with Jim Boardman on the subject of Rafa’s sacking (the original e-mail was succinctly titled “Thank you for killing my club”) that “I’m sorry you think like that but you are entitled to your opinion. I note your opinion doesn’t seem to be shared by the media”. Scary stuff and a real indication of how handy it can be to have these people, if not on your side, then at the very least not trying to have you fed to the wolves.
« Last Edit: March 7, 2015, 04:31:31 pm by E2K »
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Offline 4pool

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #140 on: March 7, 2015, 02:03:31 pm »
Eloquently put again.
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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #141 on: March 7, 2015, 02:03:50 pm »
I understand what you’re saying but it’s really better for everyone concerned, Brendan himself most of all, that he doesn’t.

I loathe the football media, absolutely loathe them. There are many reasons for that which I won’t go into here because this post is already long enough (although you can probably go ahead and picture BBC’s entire line-up of pundits as a starting point), but the bias I saw perpetrated against Rafa Benítez during his time in charge is what will always stick with me the most. I was never a huge reader of newspapers or watcher of television punditry anyway, but even so, I started to notice quite early on in his reign that Rafa wasn’t getting anywhere near the level of credit, or at least objectivity, that he deserved, that other managers got. I mentioned the specific narratives earlier, but there were many: he’s too cold, he doesn’t understand the English game, zonal-marking is an abomination were the main, recurring ones, but what about calling Everton a small club (he didn’t, of course, it was more a dig at the negative approach of David Moyes which saw him leave Everton after over 10 years without an away win at Anfield, Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge or Arsenal), his supposed Keegan-like meltdown in January 2009, no good signings in the £3m-£10m range changed to £3m-£5m eight months later in order to omit Pepe Reina (hatchet-job courtesy of Alan Hansen, full details here)? In the midst of making Liverpool a European powerhouse and slowly building a challenger for the League title up against the financial juggernauts of Chelsea and Manchester United, he was treated with less respect than the likes of Roy Hodgson, Harry Redknapp and Sam Allardyce, despite a collective haul of one FA Cup and a few League titles in Sweden and Denmark against a man who had twice out-thought and out-played Real Madrid’s original Galacticos in Spain and won a Champions League with Djimi Traoré.

Something was off and the realisation only dawned on me slowly over the course of his six years in the job: they simply didn’t like him. Remember during his last season in charge, when he invited Paul Tomkins along to Melwood to do an interview? As I recall, the general reaction in the mainstream media was harsh, the overall impression given that Rafa had some nerve to grant access like that to someone who wasn’t even a journalist. It was largely unspoken, of course, but the dismissal of Tomkins as nothing but a “blogger” by one writer told you all you needed to know. A few months later, the level and nature of the cheerleading and celebration that took place as media-favourite Roy Hodgson was appointed as Rafa’s successor told you everything. This was no objective journalism; instead, what we got was selective judgements handed down by individuals who had left their collective integrity at the door, highlighted (or lowlighted), I thought, by a deeply personal salvo from Henry Winter who characterised the man who would later donate £96,000 to the Hillsborough Family Support Group and break down in tears at the Hillsborough memorial service as a “cold political animal”.

Now, if you think this doesn’t affect people’s views and perspectives, you’re wrong. We know there are people who let this seep in, the ones whose heads you see religiously stuck in some tabloid or other in the canteen on morning break, telling you with real conviction that Manchester United are signing Gareth Bale and bringing back Cristiano Ronaldo and Paul Pogba or, to use an old example, that Rafa Benítez has spent £500m and signed 150 players because that’s what it says here. In fact, this post from earlier in the tread sums the reality up nicely as far as I’m concerned:

My respect for Rafa Benítez and Kenny Dalglish is huge, for reasons that go beyond mere results on the pitch, and, with my feelings towards the majority of the mainstream football media being what they are, I enjoyed it immensely that they had no appreciation (or even tolerance, at times) for them. Rafa always remained polite with it, Kenny maybe less so, but as a supporter I loved it. Fuck them and their snide agendas, right? But a supporter can have that attitude. The problem is that when Rafa and Kenny needed breathing space, when results were poor during the 2009/10 and 2011/12 seasons respectively or when the alleged Luis Suárez racial abuse of Patrice Evra took place, followed later by the refused handshake at Old Trafford, or the alleged racial abuse of Tom Adeyemi around that same time, neither of them got it. Instead of the pressure being lifted a little bit, it was gleefully applied with increased force in the figurative equivalent of what happened to Phil Coutinho after his goal against Manchester City the other week (i.e. Lovren apparently trying to remove his jersey forcefully from his body before his teammates took it in turns to pile on top of him). It helped neither them nor the club that the media had so few friendly voices to give them some respite. And as little time as I have for the majority of these people, I’ve come to the conclusion that, as much as I love them, Rafa and Kenny didn’t help themselves, especially given the proliferation of mass media in the 21st century.

Which brings me to Brendan Rodgers. I can’t have been the only one who heard his riposte to Roberto Martinez’s view that “the derby comes at the perfect moment for us…it can kick-start our season after the good moment we are sharing” a few weeks back (“well I think they had their first win in 8 games, so I can only talk about our momentum”) and thought that the media would have eaten Rafa alive for that (innocuous as it was). But they didn’t. And I also got the distinct impression that, at his lowest ebb in October and November, Brendan wasn’t getting quite the same kind of negative treatment that previous Liverpool managers have experienced. For example:

In 2008/09, Liverpool came 2nd, having gathered 86 points (they also went to the quarter-finals of the Champions League). The following season, 2009/10, they started with 19 points from a possible 36. By game 28, they sat on 48 points.

In 2013/14, Liverpool came 2nd under Brendan Rodgers, having gathered 84 points. The following season, 2014/15, they started with 14 points from a possible 26. By game 28, they sat on 51 points.

Similar runs, but the respective media coverage (or narratives) regarding each manager could hardly have been more different. Now it could be argued that Rafa had been in the job for longer and that Brendan deserved the benefit of the doubt more as a result (five and a half years and two and a half years respectively), but it could similarly be argued that a man with Rafa's track record deserved far more respect than he got. Either way, that’s not the way the media works. Rafa bugged them; he was foreign; his tactics were different; his approach, to everyone from players to journalists, was more standoffish. Brendan includes them. Instead of inviting a “blogger” (Paul Tomkins is, of course, a writer, and a damn good one) to Melwood, Brendan invites Robbie Savage. Robbie Savage! Talk about inviting the fox into the henhouse. Savage is the worst kind of pundit, the one whose main attributes are that he’s a character, his mouth as loud as his hair and clothes, and he’s not afraid to speak his mind. These kinds of people, the likes of Steve Claridge, Craig Burley, I remember Tim Sherwood getting in on the act for a time as well, tormented Rafa. Robbie Savage is the latest of that breed of pundit, not thoughtful or insightful in the least, happy to get names and words wrong and butcher the very syntax of sentences without a care in the world. And Brendan invited him in. Just over a year later? Savage prefaces a column in which he butchers most of his signings by saying that “I am a fan of Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers and rate him highly as a coach”.

That’s called benefit of the doubt, and it helps. Savage was far less kind the other week about Manuel Pellegrini, unleashing simplistic arguments about 4-4-2. the same approach with which he won the League and League Cup last season. People listen to this shit. Now I’m not saying that Brendan should suddenly go inviting someone like Martin Samuel around for a cosy chat like Tim Sherwood has apparently done, a man whose writing style perfectly suits the rag that he writes for, but it does no harm to keep them happy. We’re talking about the expediency of negative narratives; I think we can all agree that the media have a big hand in conjuring up and reinforcing such narratives. I still recall with dread a comment made by Martin Broughton, temporary chairman of the club back in 2010, who stated in a communication with Jim Boardman on the subject of Rafa’s sacking (the original e-mail was succinctly titled “Thank you for killing my club”) that “I’m sorry you think like that but you are entitled to your opinion. I note your opinion doesn’t seem to be shared by the media”. Scary stuff and a real indication of how handy it can be to have these people, if not on your side, then at the very least not trying to have you fed to the wolves.

Excellent post. I was thinking about that response from Martin Broughton throughout reading most of what you'd written, so I was glad to see it mentioned at the end, it really does sum up the necessity of keeping the media on side these days.

Offline john_mac

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #142 on: March 7, 2015, 03:53:49 pm »
I understand what you’re saying but it’s really better for everyone concerned, Brendan himself most of all, that he doesn’t.


Seriously good, even if I didn't really need any history lessons on the role of the media with Liverpool managers, particularly Rafa.

Still think it would be nice to see Brendan give them a bit now and then even if it meant the media relationship was a bit less cozey mind!
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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #143 on: March 7, 2015, 04:09:15 pm »
I understand what you’re saying but it’s really better for everyone concerned, Brendan himself most of all, that he doesn’t.

I loathe the football media, absolutely loathe them. There are many reasons for that which I won’t go into here because this post is already long enough (although you can probably go ahead and picture BBC’s entire line-up of pundits as a starting point), but the bias I saw perpetrated against Rafa Benítez during his time in charge is what will always stick with me the most. I was never a huge reader of newspapers or watcher of television punditry anyway, but even so, I started to notice quite early on in his reign that Rafa wasn’t getting anywhere near the level of credit, or at least objectivity, that he deserved, that other managers got. I mentioned the specific narratives earlier, but there were many: he’s too cold, he doesn’t understand the English game, zonal-marking is an abomination were the main, recurring ones, but what about calling Everton a small club (he didn’t, of course, it was more a dig at the negative approach of David Moyes which saw him leave Everton after over 10 years without an away win at Anfield, Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge or Arsenal), his supposed Keegan-like meltdown in January 2009, no good signings in the £3m-£10m range changed to £3m-£5m eight months later in order to omit Pepe Reina (hatchet-job courtesy of Alan Hansen, full details here)? In the midst of making Liverpool a European powerhouse and slowly building a challenger for the League title up against the financial juggernauts of Chelsea and Manchester United, he was treated with less respect than the likes of Roy Hodgson, Harry Redknapp and Sam Allardyce, despite a collective haul of one FA Cup and a few League titles in Sweden and Denmark against a man who had twice out-thought and out-played Real Madrid’s original Galacticos in Spain and won a Champions League with Djimi Traoré.

Something was off and the realisation only dawned on me slowly over the course of his six years in the job: they simply didn’t like him. Remember during his last season in charge, when he invited Paul Tomkins along to Melwood to do an interview? As I recall, the general reaction in the mainstream media was harsh, the overall impression given that Rafa had some nerve to grant access like that to someone who wasn’t even a journalist. It was largely unspoken, of course, but the dismissal of Tomkins as nothing but a “blogger” by one writer told you all you needed to know. A few months later, the level and nature of the cheerleading and celebration that took place as media-favourite Roy Hodgson was appointed as Rafa’s successor told you everything. This was no objective journalism; instead, what we got was selective judgements handed down by individuals who had left their collective integrity at the door, highlighted (or lowlighted), I thought, by a deeply personal salvo from Henry Winter who characterised the man who would later donate £96,000 to the Hillsborough Family Support Group and break down in tears at the Hillsborough memorial service as a “cold political animal”.

Now, if you think this doesn’t affect people’s views and perspectives, you’re wrong. We know there are people who let this seep in, the ones whose heads you see religiously stuck in some tabloid or other in the canteen on morning break, telling you with real conviction that Manchester United are signing Gareth Bale and bringing back Cristiano Ronaldo and Paul Pogba or, to use an old example, that Rafa Benítez has spent £500m and signed 150 players because that’s what it says here. In fact, this post from earlier in the tread sums the reality up nicely as far as I’m concerned:

My respect for Rafa Benítez and Kenny Dalglish is huge, for reasons that go beyond mere results on the pitch, and, with my feelings towards the majority of the mainstream football media being what they are, I enjoyed it immensely that they had no appreciation (or even tolerance, at times) for them. Rafa always remained polite with it, Kenny maybe less so, but as a supporter I loved it. Fuck them and their snide agendas, right? But a supporter can have that attitude. The problem is that when Rafa and Kenny needed breathing space, when results were poor during the 2009/10 and 2011/12 seasons respectively or when the alleged Luis Suárez racial abuse of Patrice Evra took place, followed later by the refused handshake at Old Trafford, or the alleged racial abuse of Tom Adeyemi around that same time, neither of them got it. Instead of the pressure being lifted a little bit, it was gleefully applied with increased force in the figurative equivalent of what happened to Phil Coutinho after his goal against Manchester City the other week (i.e. Lovren apparently trying to remove his jersey forcefully from his body before his teammates took it in turns to pile on top of him). It helped neither them nor the club that the media had so few friendly voices to give them some respite. And as little time as I have for the majority of these people, I’ve come to the conclusion that, as much as I love them, Rafa and Kenny didn’t help themselves, especially given the proliferation of mass media in the 21st century.

Which brings me to Brendan Rodgers. I can’t have been the only one who heard his riposte to Roberto Martinez’s view that “the derby comes at the perfect moment for us…it can kick-start our season after the good moment we are sharing” a few weeks back (“well I think they had their first win in 8 games, so I can only talk about our momentum”) and thought that the media would have eaten Rafa alive for that (innocuous as it was). But they didn’t. And I also got the distinct impression that, at his lowest ebb in October and November, Brendan wasn’t getting quite the same kind of negative treatment that previous Liverpool managers have experienced. For example:

In 2008/09, Liverpool came 2nd, having gathered 86 points (they also went to the quarter-finals of the Champions League). The following season, 2009/10, they started with 19 points from a possible 36. By game 28, they sat on 48 points.

In 2013/14, Liverpool came 2nd under Brendan Rodgers, having gathered 84 points. The following season, 2014/15, they started with 14 points from a possible 26. By game 28, they sat on 51 points.

Similar runs, but the respective media coverage (or narratives) regarding each manager could hardly have been more different. Now it could be argued that Rafa had been in the job for longer and that Brendan deserved the benefit of the doubt more as a result (five and a half years and two and a half years respectively), but it could similarly be argued that a man with Rafa's track record deserved far more respect than he got. Either way, that’s not the way the media works. Rafa bugged them; he was foreign; his tactics were different; his approach, to everyone from players to journalists, was more standoffish. Brendan includes them. Instead of inviting a “blogger” (Paul Tomkins is, of course, a writer, and a damn good one) to Melwood, Brendan invites Robbie Savage. Robbie Savage! Talk about inviting the fox into the henhouse. Savage is the worst kind of pundit, the one whose main attributes are that he’s a character, his mouth as loud as his hair and clothes, and he’s not afraid to speak his mind. These kinds of people, the likes of Steve Claridge, Craig Burley, I remember Tim Sherwood getting in on the act for a time as well, tormented Rafa. Robbie Savage is the latest of that breed of pundit, not thoughtful or insightful in the least, happy to get names and words wrong and butcher the very syntax of sentences without a care in the world. And Brendan invited him in. Just over a year later? Savage prefaces a column in which he butchers most of his signings by saying that “I am a fan of Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers and rate him highly as a coach”.

That’s called benefit of the doubt, and it helps. Savage was far less kind the other week about Manuel Pellegrini, unleashing simplistic arguments about 4-4-2. the same approach with which he won the League and League Cup last season. People listen to this shit. Now I’m not saying that Brendan should suddenly go inviting someone like Martin Samuel around for a cosy chat like Tim Sherwood has apparently done, a man whose writing style perfectly suits the rag that he writes for, but it does no harm to keep them happy. We’re talking about the expediency of negative narratives; I think we can all agree that the media have a big hand in conjuring up and reinforcing such narratives. I still recall with dread a comment made by Martin Broughton, temporary chairman of the club back in 2010, who stated in a communication with Jim Boardman on the subject of Rafa’s sacking (the original e-mail was succinctly titled “Thank you for killing my club”) that “I’m sorry you think like that but you are entitled to your opinion. I note your opinion doesn’t seem to be shared by the media”. Scary stuff and a real indication of how handy it can be to have these people, if not on your side, then at the very least not trying to have you fed to the wolves.

good post...Rodgers is very clever, the journalists listen to him like dogs. He can end his press with two (very long) answers... that is better than giving short answers, because they will bomb you with questions... so its better not to give them any chance for that... if you're going to answer with "yes...no...maybe...i don't know...we'll see",  be prepared for endless questions
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Offline Zephyr

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #144 on: March 7, 2015, 06:45:50 pm »
Great posts E2K.

 :)
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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #145 on: March 9, 2015, 04:04:45 pm »
I think the reaction from some yesterday reinforces what I was saying about how some react to bumps in the road.

E2K pointed out that Wenger suggested that people essentially have a lack of patience to tolerate the present when it comes to football - this is true even if the 'present' represents a single game amongst a generally positive set of results.

All the hindsight expertise was out in force yesterday - the usual suspects...

Offline walshys_mullet

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #146 on: March 9, 2015, 04:16:50 pm »
Very well written post, but to be honest I really haven't seen much criticism of Brendan since the turnaround against Bournemouth?  :-\

You make it sound like he's slated on here all the time but aside from a few regulars I really don't think it's as bad as you do.

I think most people on here appreciate that there is essentially no other manager in the world that can do what he's doing with us at the moment - i.e. the perfect fit for our circumstances.

But at the same time until he wins a trophy there is going to be people who doubt him - as a Rodgers supporter from day one I don't have trouble understanding why he sometimes gets flak.

He understands it too, given that after Crystal Palace he mentioned how he said he takes responsibility as accepts that as a manager you get praised for good results and critiqued for bad ones.

We could be managed by Bob and Shanks as a double combo, and people would still be pissed off when we lose to Beşiktaş for example, because 90% of fans just want to see their team win trophies.

Essentially, I really don't think the majority RAWK is as negative as your post suggests. For example Fordy took about two pages of quotes and mocking after making a negative comment the other day. it'sgonnabebarnes also had the same treatment.

I actually think we're mostly vehemently behind these players and coaching staff in majority.

Totally agree.

Yesterday i got panned for having the audacity to be baffled at Rodgers team selection. The only time i've ever thought his ship has sailed was the first half of the season where whether you backed him or not he was continually selecting the wrong players, wrong formation and trying to 'force it' to make it work.

His lack of reaction, which funnily enough Martinez is suffering from now was the catalyst for people to start thinking that maybe he's lost his way, he even said so himself.

However he got through it and he turned it around and i'm glad he did. However that wont stop me having a pop if i think he should have done this or done that. That what we as fans have been doing for years, we all have differing opinions and we all have breaking points for players and managers.

Yesterday i just didnt understand, Allen aside, why we just didnt keep the same personell? Instead with one man missing Brendan started shoe horning in players like Sterling into a wing back position. That one change on its own put us out of joint up front.

Also why Glen Johnson was selected as a CB is still baffling. He would have been more use playing where Markovic was and having Sakho come in to combat the big lad up front.

Just things like that where you look at it and seems so straightforward to do or see.

But yeah, i dont see many people giving him grief. He gets praise when he does positive stuff, so do the players. They get criticism when they do stuff wrong. Like anyone in any walk of life or any job.
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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #147 on: March 9, 2015, 04:23:46 pm »
Spoke to someone today who was at Ludogrets and he saw nothing even resembling the banner Rodgers refers to. I wonder if there's a photo of it anywhere?
Whether you like Rodgers or not the idea of unfurling a banner calling for a Liverpool manager to be sacked is just unacceptable (even for the Owl).

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #148 on: March 9, 2015, 04:27:14 pm »
Totally agree.

Yesterday i got panned for having the audacity to be baffled at Rodgers team selection. The only time i've ever thought his ship has sailed was the first half of the season where whether you backed him or not he was continually selecting the wrong players, wrong formation and trying to 'force it' to make it work.

His lack of reaction, which funnily enough Martinez is suffering from now was the catalyst for people to start thinking that maybe he's lost his way, he even said so himself.

However he got through it and he turned it around and i'm glad he did. However that wont stop me having a pop if i think he should have done this or done that. That what we as fans have been doing for years, we all have differing opinions and we all have breaking points for players and managers.

Do you not think it can come across as if your breaking point, in particular, can happen following literally any non-win? Added to the fact that you express yourself in polemic terms, which draws attention to the criticism you offer?

Fucking Rodgers again. Just when you think he's dissing it he tries to outdo himself.

Shocking selection and a shit out against a bang fucking average team

The tone just appears utterly damning of the manager - which is way OTT - arguably.

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #149 on: March 9, 2015, 04:29:18 pm »
Yesterday i just didnt understand, Allen aside, why we just didnt keep the same personell? Instead with one man missing Brendan started shoe horning in players like Sterling into a wing back position. That one change on its own put us out of joint up front.
Sterling started the previous game against Burnley as wingback, he just switched to the left hand side for this game and Markovic came in for Moreno so it hardly changed anything up front.
Also why Glen Johnson was selected as a CB is still baffling. He would have been more use playing where Markovic was and having Sakho come in to combat the big lad up front.
Combat the big lad up front? Is that the big lad who had one shot all game, not even on target and had no key passes? What threat was there to combat?
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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #150 on: March 9, 2015, 05:06:51 pm »
It's Irish.

U2 had it. -  :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao
Van Morrisson had it.
And Brendan has it.


A very good OP and discussion here in fact.

U2 had nothing
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Offline walshys_mullet

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #151 on: March 9, 2015, 05:16:22 pm »
Do you not think it can come across as if your breaking point, in particular, can happen following literally any non-win? Added to the fact that you express yourself in polemic terms, which draws attention to the criticism you offer?

The tone just appears utterly damning of the manager - which is way OTT - arguably.

But like someone posted earlier, its match reaction after the final whistle. We all do it, some more calmer than others.

When we win i post too, and its a great relief. A few hours later i've moved on. Same as a draw or defeat, it leaves your system after a few hours unless its a really poxy defeat to United or someone.

Maybe im just old school but i do think managers these days like to play the genius - i mean just look at Sherwood. Play your best team and your best players in the right positions as much as you can.

I think yesterday was annoying because i thought we'd put them to the sword, they are a poor outfit. But like Bolton we just make it so hard for ourselves. Your're almost wishing for a big prem team in the competition in order for the lads to get whipped up into a frenzy.
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Offline walshys_mullet

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #152 on: March 9, 2015, 05:19:31 pm »
Sterling started the previous game against Burnley as wingback, he just switched to the left hand side for this game and Markovic came in for Moreno so it hardly changed anything up front.Combat the big lad up front? Is that the big lad who had one shot all game, not even on target and had no key passes? What threat was there to combat?


That big lad won every header after skrtel went off. If the blackburn players around him had more nouse it could have been more of a threat. It wasnt about shots it was about his hold up play and bringing others into the game with his flicks.

If Sterling was playing wingback against Burnley then he was out of position. Because against Blackburn he was half of his normal threat.

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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #153 on: March 9, 2015, 05:28:55 pm »
That big lad won every header after skrtel went off. If the blackburn players around him had more nouse it could have been more of a threat. It wasnt about shots it was about his hold up play and bringing others into the game with his flicks.

If Sterling was playing wingback against Burnley then he was out of position. Because against Blackburn he was half of his normal threat.

They still only had one shot on target, and that was from their defender, on a corner. Gestede was a handful, but he didn't really create any problems in open play.
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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #154 on: March 9, 2015, 05:30:55 pm »
That big lad won every header after skrtel went off. If the blackburn players around him had more nouse it could have been more of a threat. It wasnt about shots it was about his hold up play and bringing others into the game with his flicks.

If Sterling was playing wingback against Burnley then he was out of position. Because against Blackburn he was half of his normal threat.
Almost every flick on went to one of our players, there was no threat or danger and nothing that required combating.

Sterling had a bad game, as did most players, it happens. We had Can and Sakho in defense and Sterling in AM against the last Championship team we had at home in the FA Cup and the result and performance was pretty much the same.
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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #155 on: March 16, 2015, 10:13:19 pm »
The narrative was being reset again at half time.

It's incredible that the merest hint at a poor outcome can bring out the naysayers with their tired points and sanctimony. Criticism is fine but the eagerness to jump on the manager is undignified from a few.

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #156 on: March 16, 2015, 11:05:44 pm »
Going back to what I said earlier, it's interesting that both Neville and Carragher talked about how Rodgers changed the formation at half time and the difference that made to the team, when you can guarantee the papers will be talking about Gerrard's introduction as the turning point.

Taking nothing away from the skipper's performance, but the game had already turned to our advantage before he came on.
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Offline Max_powers

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Re: Rodgers and the expediency of the negative narrative
« Reply #157 on: March 16, 2015, 11:20:14 pm »
Club record 6 away clean sheets in a row. Considering those that have gone before him and the fact that goal scoring is much easier now than in 70's and 80's that is a remarkable achievement.