Topic: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General

[farawayred]

Meanwhile in the Bundesliga ... Dortmund get a penalty, they score it, and then VAR decides it wasn't a penalty in the first place. In other words, they change the decision after play had restarted. Something we were told wasn't possible.

Damn foreigners!

[Eeyore]

Damn foreigners!

The PGMOL defenders quoted IFAB laws.

That is like the gammons quoting the European Court of Human Rights. 

[kiwiscouser]

I dont think it was a penalty id be fuming if given against us..

One thing that really pisses me off with VAR is fans/viewers cant hear what is said and the comms ruins it by telling you what is coming next.

Its a problem and always has been for me as they can just gaslight/ make any old crap up.

I don’t think it was a penalty either. The contact
On the Bournemouth player was just outside.

What irks me about it is the secrecy of it. And when you do hear the audio (normally of a massive howler by Var), it is a complete shambles.  Compare this to rugby where there is clear communication, questions are asked and a process followed to determine the outcome. It’s very methodical, transparent, calm and on the whole gets far more decisions right.

Why don’t PGMOL follow this example as opposed to what happens now which is chaotic.

I find it interesting that refs use different language than quoting the laws. Take the Doku incident, they say ‘comes into his space’ ‘ gets the ball first’ - they aren’t used in the laws of football.

[Legs]

I don’t think it was a penalty either. The contact
On the Bournemouth player was just outside.

What irks me about it is the secrecy of it. And when you do hear the audio (normally of a massive howler by Var), it is a complete shambles.  Compare this to rugby where there is clear communication, questions are asked and a process followed to determine the outcome. It’s very methodical, transparent, calm and on the whole gets far more decisions right.

Why don’t PGMOL follow this example as opposed to what happens now which is chaotic.

I find it interesting that refs use different language than quoting the laws. Take the Doku incident, they say ‘comes into his space’ ‘ gets the ball first’ - they aren’t used in the laws of football.

Exactly and im convinced pundits can hear them and vice versa which is dangerous.

Webb did say we will hear the audio but what he meant was 1% of cherry picked incidents not full games on tv so he can claim he didnt lie but he bent the truth as expected.

Doku incident was a joke you can use the Albanian lingo if you like the only outcome to that is its 100% a penalty.

[kiwiscouser]

Exactly and im convinced pundits can hear them and vice versa which is dangerous.

Webb did say we will hear the audio but what he meant was 1% of cherry picked incidents not full games on tv so he can claim he didnt lie but he bent the truth as expected.

Doku incident was a joke you can use the Albanian lingo if you like the only outcome to that is its 100% a penalty.

Yes they can hear it, it’s clear that they can as they say things like ‘and the fans aren’t going to like this decision’ before the ref actually communicates the decision.

I don’t think that is necessarily a bad thing to be honest. They can’t influence the decision (hopefully!) . Ideally everyone gets to hear the communication between refs and Var at the same time. It should be transparent. I tell you, if they did and it was transparent then it would improve very quickly

[Fromola]

Meanwhile in the Bundesliga ... Dortmund get a penalty, they score it, and then VAR decides it wasn't a penalty in the first place. In other words, they change the decision after play had restarted. Something we were told wasn't possible.

When will they get rid of this farcical system. Nobody wants it, just fuck if off for god sake.

[RJH]

Meanwhile in the Bundesliga ... Dortmund get a penalty, they score it, and then VAR decides it wasn't a penalty in the first place. In other words, they change the decision after play had restarted. Something we were told wasn't possible.

I don't think that is actually what happened.

The player took the penalty, but it looks like the referee hadn't actually blown to restart play (possibly the whistling from the crowd caused confusion).
If you see the footage, the ref gestures with his whistle straight away.

So Dortmund technically didn't score with the penalty, as it was never legitimately taken.

[Legs]

Yes they can hear it, it’s clear that they can as they say things like ‘and the fans aren’t going to like this decision’ before the ref actually communicates the decision.

I don’t think that is necessarily a bad thing to be honest. They can’t influence the decision (hopefully!) . Ideally everyone gets to hear the communication between refs and Var at the same time. It should be transparent. I tell you, if they did and it was transparent then it would improve very quickly

It shouldnt have an impact but if a VAR official can hear say Keane/Neville they could be influenced not saying they are but....

Michael Oliver over ruled VAR on Doku "No no no its not a penalty" he neefs to be grilled in public on that.....be like 3rd umpire at cricket saying "clear spike on the ball he has hit it so he is out" and onfield umpire with no replay/tech going "Nah I dont think so I didnt hear it!!"

Agreed it would HAVE to improve too and maybe Wolves would now be sat in a CL position too 🤣🤣

[BoRed]

I don't think that is actually what happened.

The player took the penalty, but it looks like the referee hadn't actually blown to restart play (possibly the whistling from the crowd caused confusion).
If you see the footage, the ref gestures with his whistle straight away.

So Dortmund technically didn't score with the penalty, as it was never legitimately taken.

Yes, I orignally only read a report, turns out it was misleading. Having seen the footage, it was exactly as you described.

[kiwiscouser]

It shouldnt have an impact but if a VAR official can hear say Keane/Neville they could be influenced not saying they are but....

Michael Oliver over ruled VAR on Doku "No no no its not a penalty" he neefs to be grilled in public on that.....be like 3rd umpire at cricket saying "clear spike on the ball he has hit it so he is out" and onfield umpire with no replay/tech going "Nah I dont think so I didnt hear it!!"

Agreed it would HAVE to improve too and maybe Wolves would now be sat in a CL position too 🤣🤣

Sky are the broadcaster so if they take their feed then they will be able to hear the commentary. Whether they actually are allowed to have it on - I’m not sure. Haven’t thought about that before to be honest.

[stoa]

I don't think that is actually what happened.

The player took the penalty, but it looks like the referee hadn't actually blown to restart play (possibly the whistling from the crowd caused confusion).
If you see the footage, the ref gestures with his whistle straight away.

So Dortmund technically didn't score with the penalty, as it was never legitimately taken.

How much time did pass between the penalty incident and the actual penalty being in the process of being taken? I only saw footage that basically cut from a few seconds after the foul/non-foul to the Dortmund player betting ready to take the penalty. I wonder why that happened in that way, as it clearly looks like the ref wasn't ready for the penalty to be taken and was listening to the VAR.

[4pool]

I dont think it was a penalty id be fuming if given against us..

If a player fouls another AND the foul continues into the box, a penalty is to be awarded.

Much like if a defender grabs an attacker outside the box but the holding/dragging back continues into the box. This is a penalty.

I'm reasonably sure the contact was on the line but even if it was inches outside, it continued into the box.

PGMOL will of course confirm this. 

[Andy @ Allerton!]

It's not bent though.

[vblfc]

If the ref gave the pen, I don't see how it was clear and obviously outside for VAR to overrule him. I wonder do they draw lines for these and, if yes, how does it work with the foul continuing on into the box?  Do they draw the line at the end of the foul sequence?  I’m sure it will be all cleared up by Sky in coming days.

[JRed]

If the ref gave the pen, I don't see how it was clear and obviously outside for VAR to overrule him. I wonder do they draw lines for these and, if yes, how does it work with the foul continuing on into the box?  Do they draw the line at the end of the foul sequence?  I’m sure it will be all cleared up by Sky in coming days.

I think the technical term is ‘they cheat’. They take a detailed look at the kits both teams are wearing and then decide which team they want to give the decision to. It makes things so much easier for the officials than actually looking at the incident. That’s what it seems like to me anyway.

[Legs]

If a player fouls another AND the foul continues into the box, a penalty is to be awarded.

Much like if a defender grabs an attacker outside the box but the holding/dragging back continues into the box. This is a penalty.

I'm reasonably sure the contact was on the line but even if it was inches outside, it continued into the box.

PGMOL will of course confirm this. 

Yeah they might be the rules but I woulsnt be happy if Palace got one like that today.

In fairness to the ref it wasnt on him and VAR guy is Jarod Gillet as irony would have it is not allowed to ref us as he supports us!

Maybe he wants to keep ETH in a job 🤣🤣

[Dr. Beaker]

Every time they showed a replay on the live coverage, they stopped at a freeze frame just outside the box, but it looked a frame or two too early to me. However, that is why everyone seems to think it was outside - they stopped it too soon before full contact happened.

[thejbs]

Can see why they gave a penalty for that smith handball. Harsh but his slight movement towards the ball is what they’re seeing. If we’d been given that we’d have been justifying it that way.

The rugby tackle I’m more torn about. Starts outside but the bulk of the foul is in the box.

[vblfc]

I think the technical term is ‘they cheat’. They take a detailed look at the kits both teams are wearing and then decide which team they want to give the decision to. It makes things so much easier for the officials than actually looking at the incident. That’s what it seems like to me anyway.

makes sense - good process.

[oojason]

'The football fans who blocked VAR and Saudi money – and have the most exciting league in Europe':-

Daniel Storey visits Sweden, where a 50+1 ownership model has allowed supporters to do things their own way - with brilliant results

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/football-fans-blocked-var-saudi-money-best-league-europe-2757501

[Barneylfc∗]

Just saw Coote is VAR for the derby next week 

v Fulham
Referee: Craig Pawson. Assistants: Marc Perry, Wade Smith. Fourth official: Sam Allison. VAR: Tony Harrington. Assistant VAR: Richard West

v Everton
Referee: Andy Madley. Assistants: Harry Lennard, Nick Hopton. Fourth official: Simon Hooper. VAR: David Coote. Assistant VAR: Lee Betts.

And why the fuck is Simon Hooper still allowed near our games 

[stoa]

At least as fourth official he can't do that much harm. It's still a depressing refereeing setup - Madley, Hooper, Coote. The only thing that's missing is Elbows as assistant or assistant VAR...

[GreatEx]

The name Tony Harrington means absolutely nothing to me, that's a good sign

[Redley]

The name Tony Harrington means absolutely nothing to me, that's a good sign

He made a name for himself in the Bournemouth/United game....

[Jshooters]

My daughter just asked ‘who’s that’ when there was a close up of the referee.

Me: ‘That’s the ref’

Daughter: ‘But he’s not bald!’

[Gladbach73]

Just saw Coote is VAR for the derby next week 

v Fulham
Referee: Craig Pawson. Assistants: Marc Perry, Wade Smith. Fourth official: Sam Allison. VAR: Tony Harrington. Assistant VAR: Richard West

v Everton
Referee: Andy Madley. Assistants: Harry Lennard, Nick Hopton. Fourth official: Simon Hooper. VAR: David Coote. Assistant VAR: Lee Betts.

And why the fuck is Simon Hooper still allowed near our games 

Wade Smith is the liner at Fulham? Jeez they’ve waited a while after closing down the shop in Liverpool to get another job

[thejbs]

Just saw the Grealish handball. If Oliver didn’t spot the handball (he gave a goal kick so obviously didn’t) why wasn’t he called over to review it?

[BarryCrocker]

Just saw the Grealish handball. If Oliver didn’t spot the handball (he gave a goal kick so obviously didn’t) why wasn’t he called over to review it?

Would love to have heard the audio on this.

Virtually no mention of it in the Independent, Guardian, Telegraph.

All the focus is on Pep having a dummy spit on the match being played before the Man United v Coventry games.

[thejbs]

Would love to have heard the audio on this.

Virtually no mention of it in the Independent, Guardian, Telegraph.

All the focus is on Pep having a dummy spit on the match being played before the Man United v Coventry games.

Like, with Doku, he claimed he saw it and thought it wasn’t a pen. With this one he’s clearly missed it and VAR is making a huge decision for him.

[wampa1]

Like, with Doku, he claimed he saw it and thought it wasn’t a pen. With this one he’s clearly missed it and VAR is making a huge decision for him.

And not telling him to give a corner apparently.

[stoa]

All the focus is on Pep having a dummy spit on the match being played before the Man United v Coventry games.

He's right though. Both semi-finals should be played at the same time at the same place. Could have done Man City/Coventry vs Man Utd/Chelsea with 22 players each (could also have used two balls). Winning combo plays the final against each other.

And not telling him to give a corner apparently.

To be fair, they can't tell him to give a corner, because that's not a reviewable thing. Of course they could have told him "Ball hits the arm, but it's not a handball", so he could then have given a corner.

[RyanBabel19]

I see Michael Oliver is still a useless twat

[farawayred]

I see Michael Oliver is still a useless twat

No, he has become far more of a useless twat than he was. He used to be decent.

Unrelated, but not to bring Paul Fucking Tierney's performance today.

[GreatEx]

Would love to have heard the audio on this. .

Oliver: no, no, no. Not a penalty for me. My employers will kill you if you say otherwise.
VAR: the ball and the hand come in high. The ball enters the hand's space. Hand wins the air. Ball had no intention of avoiding contact.
Assistant VAR: actually, Grealish reaches out and...
VAR: sorry Michael, there seems to be some stupid c*nt buzzing in my ear
Oliver: that's just your conscience mate. We can talk about that in the private jet
VAR: review complete
Webb: good process boys

[Bucko - Dubai]

Oliver: no, no, no. Not a penalty for me. My employers will kill you if you say otherwise.
VAR: the ball and the hand come in high. The ball enters the hand's space. Hand wins the air. Ball had no intention of avoiding contact.
Assistant VAR: actually, Grealish reaches out and...
VAR: sorry Michael, there seems to be some stupid c*nt buzzing in my ear
Oliver: that's just your conscience mate. We can talk about that in the private jet
VAR: review complete
Webb: good process boys

You miss a part out

'No handball, if I give it my next trip to Abu Dhabi might be cancelled. And you know how lucrative these trips are'

[decosabute]

Out of all the batshit mental stuff that's happening in football (Abu Dhabi 115 FC; Chelsea being allowed to sell stuff to themselves to avoid breaking rules), still one of the most mental is high-profile refs being allowed to be paid for a side gig by the owners of Man City.

It is beyond insane that this is allowed to happen in the first place, is allowed to continue happening, that the media says nothing about it, and that the vast majority of people shrug their shoulders.

We are living in fucking crazy town. I urge people to stop paying for the product. Decent pirate streams are usually available. I don't want to continue paying the PL (as well the broadcasters who hold nothing to account) for a product that's completely corrupt.

Stop paying unless they actually clean the sport up.

[MonsLibpool]

Their wall was pathetic and cowardly so there's no mitigating circumstance.

That's a pen all day long.

[ArcticRed]

Just another coincidental error coincidentally aiding AD 115. I'm sure they struggle to believe just how fortunate they are.

[Lee1-6Liv]

Not just the handball penalty but he could have booked De Bryune in the first half for anyone of three bad tackles but didn't, he eventually booked him in the second but later on he made another bad tackle which he could have booked him again but decided to play advantage and ignored the booking. Also the Walker push could have been penalty, again nothing given but later he gives a freekick for the exact same incident outside the box.

[Mister Flip Flop]

Just another coincidental error coincidentally aiding AD 115. I'm sure they struggle to believe just how fortunate they are.

Nothing to see here good process move along