Topic: Round table Swansea 2-2 LFC

[PhaseOfPlay]

Im not so sure that Skrtl could have extended his foot to stop the shot. In fact, if you watch the goal again, Shelvey is ready to shoot and Skrtl is already running after him. Im pretty sure the only way to stop it would be a sliding tackle/block. Its more debateable if its the right thing to do or not.

Also, Sakho is definetely most at fault for the second goal. He didnt have to run out and get caught way too high up on the field. And i dont really see how they could have forced and offside in that situation. Wisdom and Skrtl should both have reacted quicker and "tuck in", but Sakho made a huge mistake by running out.

If Sakho doesn't step with Bony, then Bony gets the ball with space to turn and go at Sakho, with Michu supporting at the left and Shelvey making a run forward. The problem wasn't Sakho, he did what any defender would need to do with a checking forward - he had to decide if the forward was running to receive or running to create space. It's only in hindsight that anyone can attempt to say "well Sakho left a huge space, and because of that, we conceded the goal", but in the flow of play, Sakho had a decision to make, and Bony's intelligent checking run put him in a dilemma, and he had to make a decision either way, and stepping up with Bony was justifiable, and hardly a mistake. What was a mistake was Gerrard not tracking Shelvey, nobody pressing Britton as he played the ball into the space, and Wisdom being on the wrong side of Michu in the first place. It could be argued that Skrtel should have slid across to cover the space vacated by Sakho, but that would be harsh on Skrtel. But Sakho was not at fault for that goal.

[Nessy76]

I can understand Gerrard's England ambitions, but Scholes, at a younger age, and Carra (albeit for slightly different reasons) both put club business first in calling a halt on their International careers. It would almost certainly benefit LFC if Gerrard did the same. The question is begged though, that with Shelvey's departure, is there anyone to fill that role - or for that matter Lucas's - if and when needed? Because we now have a lot of back four options, but precious little in front of them.

Neither Scholes nor Carra was captain of the national side. There's no chance of Gerrard packing it in until after the next world cup at least, he wants to lead out his country in the biggest competition in football, we'll just have to live with it.

[Billy Blaze]

I answered in the Sakho thread, but it would probably fit better in the round table thread. So heres to copy paste.

I always like your posts mate, but you are completely wrong here if you think thats how a centre half should play. You have to keep your shape as a defensive unit, thats just basic defending. Sakho should never follow Bony up the field and leave the space open behind him. Lucas had Bony, who received it with the back to the goal and wasnt in a dangerous position. The situation became dangerous because Sakho got dragged out. Gerrard should have followed his man, wisdom should have been more aware and Skrtel should have tugged ind, but Sakho made the major mistake in making it all happen. One of the most difficult thing to defend as a defender is when opponents makes run behind your back, because you will always react slower than them. Its much easier when you have the opponents in front of you.

[afc tukrish]

He could have achieved the same effect by staying on his feet, and by staying on his feet, Shelvey doesn't get the second shot off as comfortably.

PoP, aka Ray Wilkins? 

Not coincidentally, I do agree that Skrtel had no need to go to ground.

[PhaseOfPlay]

PoP, aka Ray Wilkins? 

Not coincidentally, I do agree that Skrtel had no need to go to ground.

My word...

[Alf Garnett!]

I think the substitution of Pozuelo who replaced Bony just after the hour had a big impact on how much pressure we had during the last 30 mins,something that seems to have gone un-noticed.

[Hayer]

If Sakho doesn't step with Bony, then Bony gets the ball with space to turn and go at Sakho, with Michu supporting at the left and Shelvey making a run forward. The problem wasn't Sakho, he did what any defender would need to do with a checking forward - he had to decide if the forward was running to receive or running to create space. It's only in hindsight that anyone can attempt to say "well Sakho left a huge space, and because of that, we conceded the goal", but in the flow of play, Sakho had a decision to make, and Bony's intelligent checking run put him in a dilemma, and he had to make a decision either way, and stepping up with Bony was justifiable, and hardly a mistake. What was a mistake was Gerrard not tracking Shelvey, nobody pressing Britton as he played the ball into the space, and Wisdom being on the wrong side of Michu in the first place. It could be argued that Skrtel should have slid across to cover the space vacated by Sakho, but that would be harsh on Skrtel. But Sakho was not at fault for that goal.

I'm sorry but i'd rather take our manager's word for it. No offence.

Rodgers said : 'He stepped out maybe a wee bit too far for the second goal but that's something that, once he gets used to working with us, he'll improve on. Overall I thought he was strong, aggressive and passed it well.'

[Circa1892]

Did Brendan make too many changes for a trip to a fast passing team?

No. Moses is a better player than Aspas at the moment, so that change made sense, and Johnson/Agger were injured. Whether he made the right choices at the back are a separate issue...


Will Moses deliver us to the promised land?

He's a good addition. Hoping to see him score at Old Trafford so we can have the headline "Moses parts the red sea" in some of the papers.

How did that defence look?

Shoddy. But they were a tad overwhelmed in the second half. Sakho looked rusty, and I'd hope he gets a bit more match practice (e.g. in the behind closed doors game today). Would like to see Kelly in ahead of Wisdom at the moment, he certainly doesn't look the part yet...

Why did Routledge get the better of us on the left so often?

A mixture of Wisdom struggling and very little support from the midfield.

Was this the first time we could've used Luis' guile?

Definitely in the second half after Coutinho went off...

[Bolrick]

Monday night matches and LFC just don't hand in hand (well.....recent record). Statistically speaking, we have not done well in Monday night matches in the last few years.

Just hope we don't have anymore Monday night matches this season.

[robertobaggio37]

bit OT, what a fall

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/L3PV8FgevOQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/L3PV8FgevOQ</a>

[PhaseOfPlay]

I'm sorry but i'd rather take our manager's word for it. No offence.

Rodgers said : 'He stepped out maybe a wee bit too far for the second goal but that's something that, once he gets used to working with us, he'll improve on. Overall I thought he was strong, aggressive and passed it well.'

Even Rodgers is noting that the stepping out wasn't the problem. He wasn't happy with the distance. He didn't say "He stepped out when he shouldn't have". He said "wee bit too far". So again, as I said, he didn't make a mistake. He made a decision that a lot of coaches would expect him to make. The argument was whether he should have stepped out at all. Billy Blaze says he should never step out, but maintain shape. My position is that he had to step out because nobody was covering Bony as he was checking to the ball. But that wasn't the cause of the goal, and I would imagine Rodgers knows that too. If he has any knowledge of the game (which he clearly does), the first question on that goal is "Who the f*** was marking Shelvey?"

[Drinks Sangria]

I answered in the Sakho thread, but it would probably fit better in the round table thread. So heres to copy paste.

I always like your posts mate, but you are completely wrong here if you think thats how a centre half should play. You have to keep your shape as a defensive unit, thats just basic defending. Sakho should never follow Bony up the field and leave the space open behind him. Lucas had Bony, who received it with the back to the goal and wasnt in a dangerous position. The situation became dangerous because Sakho got dragged out. Gerrard should have followed his man, wisdom should have been more aware and Skrtel should have tugged ind, but Sakho made the major mistake in making it all happen. One of the most difficult thing to defend as a defender is when opponents makes run behind your back, because you will always react slower than them. Its much easier when you have the opponents in front of you.

He's not saying that's how a centre half should play. What he is saying, however, is that Sakho had a decision to make, and the one he made was entirely justifiable, and arguably, the right call. In that instance, there were two things he could do. Keep the shape, or go with Bony. He chose to go with Bony, whose movement was excellent. Bony then made the right decision by moving it back to an advancing Britton. If Sakho stays, Bony then has lots of space to turn into, with Shelvey one side and Michu having lost Wisdom on the other. Also, he'd have a chance to shoot at the goal before Sakho could close him.  Three options, all dangerous. It's about minimising risk. By going with him, Sakho ensured Bony only had one option, and that was the one least dangerous to the team. Skrtel then needed to close in, and Wisdom stay goal side of Michu. Gerrard committed the real cardinal sin here by not going with Shelvey, which was the crucial part of a series of small mistakes. As PoP said also, no one closed Britton down.

You've said yourself, it's much easier when you have your opponent in front of you. It is, when they've got no space to move into. A run behind the back of the defence from Bony wasn't an option, and Sakho made the right call in deciding not to let him turn into a huge space in front of goal. Giving Bony two seconds on the ball in that area would have been far more reckless than allowing him to do what he did. In the end, Britton produces a top pass, Shelvey a deft header and Michu a good finish. It was a collective grouping of errors that led to the goal, but Sakho's wasn't one of them. Look at Benteke's goal v us at Anfield last season, as well as Rodriguez's at St Mary's. Then you might come to the same conclusion.

[Billy Blaze]

Even Rodgers is noting that the stepping out wasn't the problem. He wasn't happy with the distance. He didn't say "He stepped out when he shouldn't have". He said "wee bit too far". So again, as I said, he didn't make a mistake. He made a decision that a lot of coaches would expect him to make. The argument was whether he should have stepped out at all. Billy Blaze says he should never step out, but maintain shape. My position is that he had to step out because nobody was covering Bony as he was checking to the ball. But that wasn't the cause of the goal, and I would imagine Rodgers knows that too. If he has any knowledge of the game (which he clearly does), the first question on that goal is "Who the f*** was marking Shelvey?"

I just can´t understand how you(and others) can watch the goal and get to that conclusion. It's completely clear to me that Lucas is covering Bony. 

[Hayer]

Even Rodgers is noting that the stepping out wasn't the problem. He wasn't happy with the distance. He didn't say "He stepped out when he shouldn't have". He said "wee bit too far". So again, as I said, he didn't make a mistake. He made a decision that a lot of coaches would expect him to make. The argument was whether he should have stepped out at all. Billy Blaze says he should never step out, but maintain shape. My position is that he had to step out because nobody was covering Bony as he was checking to the ball. But that wasn't the cause of the goal, and I would imagine Rodgers knows that too. If he has any knowledge of the game (which he clearly does), the first question on that goal is "Who the f*** was marking Shelvey?"

Fair enough

[JTK]

Did Brendan make too many changes for a trip to a fast passing team?

As in personnel changes? Don't think we had any choice did we?

Sakho in for the injured Agger, Wisdom in for the injured Johnson.
Other than that he brought in Moses in for the struggling Aspas, Moses scored and Aspas looked poor so no complaints there.

Will Moses deliver us to the promised land?

He will certainly be a great option for us. We saw flashes of great play, and he took his goal very well.
He was quiet 2nd half, but then the whole team went to sleep 2nd half so we can't single him out. He hasn't been playing games this season in the league and traveled to Nigeria last week so cant blame him for not being 100% match ready. I look forward to seeing more of him this weekend.

How did that defence look?

Shaky. Wisdom isn't ready yet, and I thought he had a very poor game. He kept losing the ball, we miss Johnson already, wish Kelly could play. Sakho ideally wouldn't have started. He needs to be eased in now, he wasn't great to be honest but it's his first game in English football so we cant have a go. The constant diving in needs to stop though, I hope it was just first game nerves, awful defending at times.

Skrtel made some great challenges, but I am still not convinced. Like Sakho, and Wisdom - he looked shaky.

It's not great when Enrique is your most reliable defender!

Why did Routledge get the better of us on the left so often?

That was Wisdom's side right? Well I suppose there's your answer. The lad really struggled and I think a loan really would've been best for him this season.

Was this the first time we could've used Luis' guile?

It was the most apparent time, as we didn't win, but I've never been of the opinion that we are better without him in any game we play. His 'guile' would've taken Swansea's attention away from our other attacking players, and with Sturridge playing so well, it would've really helped. We all know what Luis can do. He is a world class attacking player and he will waltz right back into the team if he is ready to play for us.
News is that Coutinho is going to be out untill late October. This makes Suarez's return all the more important.
I think Southampton will be a very difficult game, they have a good team. We win it, and Suarez returns from his ban with us top of the league.
Now that would be boss.

Overall verdict, we would of lost that game the last few seasons. Happy with a draw, top of the league.

Back to the kop for Saturday, great.

[DanA]

I didn't think Sakho needed to step up like he did. Certainly could have waited a few seconds. Lucas was there to harass Bony, should he have turned goalward, wouldn't have had a lot of support.  Yes plenty of other mistakes were made but you have to say it started there with Sakho and looked almost a training drill with how easy we were pulled out of shape.

[PhaseOfPlay]

I didn't think Sakho needed to step up like he did. Certainly could have waited a few seconds. Lucas was there to harass Bony, should he have turned goalward, wouldn't have had a lot of support.  Yes plenty of other mistakes were made but you have to say it started there with Sakho and looked almost a training drill with how easy we were pulled out of shape.

It didn't start with Sakho. It started with Shelvey and the lack of pressure on him, and the failure to track his run.

Goals are conceded at the ball first. Stop the ball, and it doesn't matter what anyone else does. We failed to stop Shelvey with the ball in midfield, then we failed to stop Britton playing the ball in, then we failed to stop Shelvey getting the clean header, then we failed to stop Michu having a clean shot.

But football starts at the ball. And that's where our failings were located.

[GrkStav]

It didn't start with Sakho. It started with Shelvey and the lack of pressure on him, and the failure to track his run.

Goals are conceded at the ball first. Stop the ball, and it doesn't matter what anyone else does. We failed to stop Shelvey with the ball in midfield, then we failed to stop Britton playing the ball in, then we failed to stop Shelvey getting the clean header, then we failed to stop Michu having a clean shot.

But football starts at the ball. And that's where our failings were located.

That's all fair enough, PoP but your pictures did show that in OUR team, with Lucas as one of the 2 CM and nearest Bony, Sakho or whoever else is playing LCB, does NOT have to follow Bony all the way out. As it happened, Lucas 'had him'.

Yes, Gerrard ought to have tracked Shelvey. OTOH, had Sakho not over-committed, and unnecessarily so, he could have picked up Shelvey's run. The pass to Shelvey would have been child's play for Sakho, given his skills and talents, to intercept and clear, had he been closer to Skrtel than to Lucas (i.e. Bony).

[PhaseOfPlay]

That's all fair enough, PoP but your pictures did show that in OUR team, with Lucas as one of the 2 CM and nearest Bony, Sakho or whoever else is playing LCB, does NOT have to follow Bony all the way out. As it happened, Lucas 'had him'.

He didn't. At no point would Lucas be considered to have been marking Bony. At no point whatsoever. Bony was being marked by Sakho. He checked into the ball, about 5 yards to Lucas' left. At no point was Lucas touch-tight on Bony, and by the time he was within marking distance, Bony had released the ball and Lucas had to step to Britton.

Yes, Gerrard ought to have tracked Shelvey. OTOH, had Sakho not over-committed, and unnecessarily so, he could have picked up Shelvey's run. The pass to Shelvey would have been child's play for Sakho, given his skills and talents, to intercept and clear, had he been closer to Skrtel than to Lucas (i.e. Bony).

The pass was played in because of Shelvey's run. If Shelvey is marked, that pass might not get played; or if Britton is pressure more tightly, he doesn't get to time the pass properly. Shelvey runs anyway, as Bony is checking. We can debate how far forward Sakho needed to be, or at what point he could have turned and recovered, but the initial run to go with Bony was not incorrect. He checked to receive the ball, and he was being marked by Sakho, and to not go with Bony would have been a dereliction of his marking duties. Lucas wasn't even looking at that area until Shelvey released the ball across his body, so he wasn't aware of Bony at all, and in fact, if you look again, Skrtel points at Michu to get someone to mark him so he can cover across, but nobody picks him up, and that puts Skrtel in a dilemma, because he can't leave Michu, but he has to close the space. It all starts with Shelvey getting a free pass into Bony's feet, and then nobody marking Shelvey as he runs past the entire midfield.

[GrkStav]

Oh darn it, I'll have to fire up ye olde DVR and look at the incident over and over again, now, PoP.  . . . Only to find out, probably, that you were 100% right and I was imagining things.

Shucks!

[Billy Blaze]

He didn't. At no point would Lucas be considered to have been marking Bony. At no point whatsoever. Bony was being marked by Sakho. He checked into the ball, about 5 yards to Lucas' left. At no point was Lucas touch-tight on Bony, and by the time he was within marking distance, Bony had released the ball and Lucas had to step to Britton.

The pass was played in because of Shelvey's run. If Shelvey is marked, that pass might not get played; or if Britton is pressure more tightly, he doesn't get to time the pass properly. Shelvey runs anyway, as Bony is checking. We can debate how far forward Sakho needed to be, or at what point he could have turned and recovered, but the initial run to go with Bony was not incorrect. He checked to receive the ball, and he was being marked by Sakho, and to not go with Bony would have been a dereliction of his marking duties. Lucas wasn't even looking at that area until Shelvey released the ball across his body, so he wasn't aware of Bony at all, and in fact, if you look again, Skrtel points at Michu to get someone to mark him so he can cover across, but nobody picks him up, and that puts Skrtel in a dilemma, because he can't leave Michu, but he has to close the space. It all starts with Shelvey getting a free pass into Bony's feet, and then nobody marking Shelvey as he runs past the entire midfield.

If Sakho wasnt dragged out, Shelvey wouldnt have had any space to run into. The situation becomes dangerous because Sakho gets dragged out. You cant stop strikers dropping back, theyll do it all the time. The decision Sakho had to make was if he needed to follow Bony or not, in this situation he made the wrong call.that happens, but its still a mistake. It isnt that dangerous to let strikers receive the ball with their back to the goal when they are so far from the goal. Lucas couldnt and didnt need to mark him tightly. He just needed to close him down, like he did. The only sensible thing Bony could do was to pass it back to Britton. The space Sakho left open was then taken advantage of by Shelvey. Gerrard should have followed Shelvey, Wisdom should have done better marking Michu and Skrtl should have tugged in.

But it all started when Sakho was dragged too far out.   

[DanA]

It didn't start with Sakho. It started with Shelvey and the lack of pressure on him, and the failure to track his run.

Goals are conceded at the ball first. Stop the ball, and it doesn't matter what anyone else does. We failed to stop Shelvey with the ball in midfield, then we failed to stop Britton playing the ball in, then we failed to stop Shelvey getting the clean header, then we failed to stop Michu having a clean shot.

But football starts at the ball. And that's where our failings were located.

Well I didn't think we were in trouble until Sakho stepped up, goals may start at the ball but nothing was happening so I don't see a reason to create a big gaping hole in the back four unnecessarily. I think it's a mistake, i'm all for aggressive defending but I didn't feel that was a particularly good moment to do so.

[jason42]

I just can´t understand how you(and others) can watch the goal and get to that conclusion. It's completely clear to me that Lucas is covering Bony. 

Lucas wasn't even looking at nor anywhere near Bony....

[PhaseOfPlay]

Well I didn't think we were in trouble until Sakho stepped up, goals may start at the ball but nothing was happening so I don't see a reason to create a big gaping hole in the back four unnecessarily. I think it's a mistake, i'm all for aggressive defending but I didn't feel that was a particularly good moment to do so.

Just as an aside - let's say that Sakho didn't push up with Bony when he checked to the ball, and on receiving it, he turned, went at Sakho, beat him, and either scored or squared it for Michu to score. Where would the mistake be in that situation?

[jason42]

It didn't start with Sakho. It started with Shelvey and the lack of pressure on him, and the failure to track his run.

Goals are conceded at the ball first. Stop the ball, and it doesn't matter what anyone else does. We failed to stop Shelvey with the ball in midfield, then we failed to stop Britton playing the ball in, then we failed to stop Shelvey getting the clean header, then we failed to stop Michu having a clean shot.

But football starts at the ball. And that's where our failings were located.

Too true mate. Remember the way that Rush used to defend from the front and would always hassle the man on the ball.
We made Shelvey look so good because we gave him so much time.
Nobody bothered to press him or press Britten and nobody went with Shelvey when he made his run and that is what cost us.

Did you see my post about the goal kicks mate? Not sure if it came across on the TV but in the stadium you could have thrown a blanket over all the outfield players and I felt Mignolet should have looked at trying to vary his kicks and maybe try and put Moses 1 on 1 with Rangel.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Oh darn it, I'll have to fire up ye olde DVR and look at the incident over and over again, now, PoP.  . . . Only to find out, probably, that you were 100% right and I was imagining things.

Shucks!

It's not about me being right, incidentally. I really appreciate and respect the points of view being raised by you and Dan A among others. But it's about getting away from the mentality that if a goal is conceded, we look at the defenders first, because most goals can be prevented further up; and the elephant in the room for me is that Gerrard was negligent in both goals, and it's a habit he had at the early part of last season too (think back to the goal Arsenal scored against us - the first one, I think). I think we can have a good debate on the merits of a centre-half pushing out aggressively, or sitting back passively, for sure. But it's a sidetrack to the main issue - Gerrard allowed Shelvey to play the ball into Bony, and failed to track his run as soon as he made it. I don't know, though, if that's an issue with Gerrard, or is that something Rodgers allows his midfielders to do. It's not something I would allow any of my central midfielders to do, that's for sure. But then again, as much as I like and support Rodgers, I'm more in line with how Rafa sees the game

[PhaseOfPlay]

Too true mate. Remember the way that Rush used to defend from the front and would always hassle the man on the ball.
We made Shelvey look so good because we gave him so much time.
Nobody bothered to press him or press Britten and nobody went with Shelvey when he made his run and that is what cost us.

Did you see my post about the goal kicks mate? Not sure if it came across on the TV but in the stadium you could have thrown a blanket over all the outfield players and I felt Mignolet should have looked at trying to vary his kicks and maybe try and put Moses 1 on 1 with Rangel.

I didn't. Which thread is it in?

[jason42]

Well I didn't think we were in trouble until Sakho stepped up, goals may start at the ball but nothing was happening so I don't see a reason to create a big gaping hole in the back four unnecessarily. I think it's a mistake, i'm all for aggressive defending but I didn't feel that was a particularly good moment to do so.

Have you seen the way Sturridge & Coutinho & Suarez drop off the centre halves to pick up the ball? If they are not tracked, they can turn and go at the defence or if they are tracked then there is room for a run in behind.
I get the theory that Bony should have been passed on to someone else but that was not happening all game. There was little or no communication between the players and quite often the Swans players were wondering around completely unmarked. Lucas tried to cover everywhere but he wasn't helped by Gerrard or Henderson.

[Billy Blaze]

Lucas wasn't even looking at nor anywhere near Bony....

I disagree. He's clearly on to him here. Bony wouldnt get a free run on anything here. Bony is standing with his back to the goal and all the momentum going away from the goal. He wouldnt just be able to turn with the ball and run against the goal without Lucas being over him.

[jason42]

I didn't. Which thread is it in?

this one mate on Page 1 

[jason42]

I disagree. He's clearly on to him here. Bony wouldnt get a free run on anything here. Bony is standing with his back to the goal and all the momentum going away from the goal. He wouldnt just be able to turn with the ball and run against the goal without Lucas being over him.

At that moment, yes, Lucas has seen Bony get the ball but if you were able to take that back a bit before Bony makes his run, Lucas & Gerarrd are both square on and facing Shelvey.

[PhaseOfPlay]

this one mate on Page 1 

I didn't see it. Some idiot put up a very long post with lots of screenshots with arrows and that, so I just skipped to page 2

I'll have a look now.

[exiledinyorkshire]

It did feel strange to see Sahko go so far in his tracking a checking run.

However mistake or not, the goal isn't scored for another 3 passes.

For me the real crime is nobody going with Shelvey, I mean he runs 30 yards and receives a straight lofted ball.

Gerrard for me. And when Sahko goes so glaringly out of the back four Skertle has to cover him better, and wisdom has to take full responsibility for Michu.

Sahkos run that follows Boney looks like a mistake, i'm not sure it is though.

Maybe in a defence that we want, an aggressive back four that can hold a high line and is proactive, it doesn't look so odd.

[exiledinyorkshire]

to be fair to skerts he's fucked in that situation either way.


And looking at it again, they execute it almost perfectly. Good goal that.

[PhaseOfPlay]

It did feel strange to see Sahko go so far in his tracking a checking run.

However mistake or not, the goal isn't scored for another 3 passes.

For me the real crime is nobody going with Shelvey, I mean he runs 30 yards and receives a straight lofted ball.

Gerrard for me. And when Sahko goes so glaringly out of the back four Skertle has to cover him better, and wisdom has to take full responsibility for Michu.

Sahkos run that follows Boney looks like a mistake, i'm not sure it is though.

Maybe in a defence that we want, an aggressive back four that can hold a high line and is proactive, it doesn't look so odd.

Maybe all the disagreements are hinged around what people prefer to see? I prefer an aggressive elastic high line with proactive defenders. It seems others prefer the more conservative 3rd Defender approach with passive defending. It's interesting to see the difference of opinion, because Rodgers wants a high line, and how Sakho played there is consistent with how a high-line defender should play. As a few of us have mentioned, though, Sakho was playing one game, Skrtel was playing another, and Enrique and Wisdom were playing another game entirely. As soon as they are fit, Toure and Agger have to be reinstated, because they have a good understanding of when to step together, when to drop, and when to split.

[Billy Blaze]

At that moment, yes, Lucas has seen Bony get the ball but if you were able to take that back a bit before Bony makes his run, Lucas & Gerarrd are both square on and facing Shelvey.

And your point being? Of course they are facing Shelvey, they cant react before Bony makes his run. When Bony makes his run, both Lucas and Sakho are following him. That means that Bony dropping deep and makes a simple backwards pass, ties up two of our defensive players. That shouldnt happen, but it does, probably because they havent played together before. Its just a miscommunication. Sakho shouldnt have followed Bony all the way, but instead warned Lucas(he might have done both, we cant hear if he yelled anything).   

[exiledinyorkshire]

Maybe all the disagreements are hinged around what people prefer to see? I prefer an aggressive elastic high line with proactive defenders. It seems others prefer the more conservative 3rd Defender approach with passive defending. It's interesting to see the difference of opinion, because Rodgers wants a high line, and how Sakho played there is consistent with how a high-line defender should play. As a few of us have mentioned, though, Sakho was playing one game, Skrtel was playing another, and Enrique and Wisdom were playing another game entirely. As soon as they are fit, Toure and Agger have to be reinstated, because they have a good understanding of when to step together, when to drop, and when to split.

yeah I think that's it, it looks odd because we never see it. I know this is what Rodgers is after, if Toure is playing Skertles position, do we see anything different? Do we see him step up and scream at Wisdom and Enrique to do the same? Because from watching it nobody else in the back line even considers moving up, they drop. And I suppose its because there is nor real pressure on the ball as its laid off.

oh I don't know, I confuse myself. It looked odd but I wasn't offended by it. I think from then on like you say its not dealt with and they execute each of the steps faultlessly. I mean Shelveys knock down is absolutely perfect. His run is timed perfectly he sees the only place he can head it to where michu can shoot first time, and pulls it off. What are the odds on that?

[Cpt_Reina]

yeah I think that's it, it looks odd because we never see it. I know this is what Rodgers is after, if Toure is playing Skertles position, do we see anything different? Do we see him step up and scream at Wisdom and Enrique to do the same? Because from watching it nobody else in the back line even considers moving up, they drop. And I suppose its because there is nor real pressure on the ball as its laid off.

You would hope so.

It's the CB's that set the defensive line, or it should be. The fullbacks take their cue from those two. So if both go, the fullbacks have no choice but to follow suit.

[jason42]

Their second goal starts from a free kick for offside against Sturridge at 62:56 on the clock. Chico plays the ball to Britten, who turns and gets close to the halfway line under no pressure before passing to Rangel. Moses presses Rangel who returns the ball to Britten. De Guzman drops into his own half as Aspas tries to pass him on to someone else before coming to press Britten. This leaves De Guzman in space and he passes to Shelvey although he had the option of a wider pass to Davies on as well. 63:05 on the clock. Aspas is now out of the game in the Swansea half, Moses is just in our half and close to Rangel and then we have Lucas, Gerrard and Henderson all within 10 metres of each other just on the edge of the centre circle. Shelvey picks up the ball just inside his own half and moves into our half. Our midfield 3 are still very close to each other and Michu has dropped deeper some 5 yards behind Lucas but is unmarked. By now, Bony has made his move towards the ball and Shelvey plays the pass (63:13). Aspas is closest to the ball but unable to do anything. Lucas reacts but is still yards away when Bony gets the ball. Sakho doesn't really have too much choice other than to track Bony. Within a second Bony  has controlled the ball and laid it off to Britten. Shelvey has continued his run completely unchecked. Sakho senses that the chip over him is on and starts to retreat while Lucas is still at least 5 yards away from Britten. Wisdom should have moved around to pick up Michu and get goalside and Skertl should also have reacted better. Britten playe the ball over Sakho and only then do Skertl and Wisdom begin to react. Gerrard hasn't moved at all. On 63:17 the ball reaches Shelvey who flicks on to Michu and the goal is scored.

[jason42]

And your point being? Of course they are facing Shelvey, they cant react before Bony makes his run. When Bony makes his run, both Lucas and Sakho are following him. That means that Bony dropping deep and makes a simple backwards pass, ties up two of our defensive players. That shouldnt happen, but it does, probably because they havent played together before. Its just a miscommunication. Sakho shouldnt have followed Bony all the way, but instead warned Lucas(he might have done both, we cant hear if he yelled anything).   

Bony has already started his run before Lucas realises he is there. He would have had time to turn  and either lay the ball back to Britten (which he did); turn and drive at Sakho or play a 1-2 with the free running Shelvey or play Rangel in - all before Lucas would have closed him down. I am watching the footage again as I type...