Topic: New Kit thread

[Statto Red]

I've always wondered why United takes up 3 quarters of the football racks in sport stores here in Australia with Liverpool taking up the other quarter, after today it makes sense. New Balance literally just can't keep up with the worldwide demand. It's a no brainer to go with Nike now, regardless of how good the NB kits are.

Not just demand worldwide but NB can't even keep up with demand in the UK, mate of mine brought the goalkeeper shirt but it's a size too big, & they're out of stock in the size he wants[M] the goalkeeper shirt is out of stock in small sizes, & there's no idea if or when NB are going to make & distribute new stock, that's the main issue why we want to go to Nike, if NB can keep up with demand they'd be no problems, we'd still be with them, plus the NB kits are nice, rather than generic template we'd get with Nike.

Seems Nike don't do european shirts, what i mean ones with champions league patches like NB/Adidas do.

[Anthony]

If Liverpool do win the case and go with Nike where does this leave this season's kit?

Given the possibility of winning the title it could be a very popular shirt. Combine that with the purported supply difficulties that could put the shirt into collectible territory. Alternatively NB might want to put their efforts into ramping up production...

[BaZ87]

An update from James Pearce in The Athletic:

https://theathletic.co.uk/1298559/2019/10/19/liverpool-battle-new-balance-in-court-but-nike-have-already-spent-6m-on-next-seasons-kit/

For those that don't subscribe, here's a few key points:

1. Nike have already began work on next seasons kit, spending nearly $6m.
2. Liverpool will argue that their agreement with Nike became legally binding in August and even if NB win the case, the answer should be damages rather than forcing the club to continue its partnership with NB.
3. Few more financial details around the deal - £30m flat fee + 20% royalty on net sales (this doesn't mean 20% of a £70 shirt btw), £2m worth of merchandise and Nike will give the club a 19% discount on the wholesale price of merch. £4m bonus for winning the CL, £2m for runners-up and £2m if we win the PL.
4. Based on projections, the deal is worth £60-70m per year.

[Gerry Attrick]

£60m a year is mega money but it still feels a trifle underwhelming for a team with a legitimate claim to be the best in the world at this time and one of the most largely supported. I was hoping for closer to 100m.

[classycarra]

It's a particularly good deal from Nike's perspective, and can see the rationale from LFC's perspective to take a slight gamble. Nike should definitely cover most of the costs to pay off NB though!

[CraigDS]

I think the main thing the club gets is the ability for the deal to continue to increase in value over the (10-15yr?) length of the deal. Rather than being locked in at £75m for example that 2/3rds Of the way through the deal could look small.

[classycarra]

I think the main thing the club gets is the ability for the deal to continue to increase in value over the (10-15yr?) length of the deal. Rather than being locked in at £75m for example that 2/3rds Of the way through the deal could look small.

Yeah exactly.

But since a league or CL win is rewarded in the low millions, I reckon Nike should feel ok about supplementing most of the fees to pay out NB (obviously I'm working on assumption that'll be the ruling)

[CentenaryBoy]

Mbappe plays with Nike boots, so this can go on 

Other than that, It'll be great to see LFC playing with blue and red striped jerseys with "blaugrana" stiched on the collar.

Fuck Nike and its deals with barca.

Would rather see a nice kit from Kappa.

Ugh...Kappa? Oh God, no.

[BaZ87]

I think the main thing the club gets is the ability for the deal to continue to increase in value over the (10-15yr?) length of the deal. Rather than being locked in at £75m for example that 2/3rds Of the way through the deal could look small.

This is exactly it. The value of kit manufacturing deals have continued to increase dramatically over the last 15-20 years and if you tie yourself into a fixed fee deal there's the potential that you're going to be short changed in the mid to late years of that deal.

The club would have crunched the numbers and weighed up the pros and cons of different offers or structures of offers available to them and decided to gamble on their ability to grow sales whereby the amount they lose in the short term will be more than made up for in later years.

[RedSince86]

This is exactly it. The value of kit manufacturing deals have continued to increase dramatically over the last 15-20 years and if you tie yourself into a fixed fee deal there's the potential that you're going to be short changed in the mid to late years of that deal.

The club would have crunched the numbers and weighed up the pros and cons of different offers or structures of offers available to them and decided to gamble on their ability to grow sales whereby the amount they lose in the short term will be more than made up for in later years.

Savvy AF our owners.

Wouldn't be surprised to see United do a similar deal in their next kitdeal.

[BaZ87]

Savvy AF our owners.

Wouldn't be surprised to see United do a similar deal in their next kitdeal.

It's only savvy if we're successful in growing sales. This is the calculated gamble the club have took and why there's no right or wrong way of doing things, it all depends on what was on offer and what the club feel they can achieve in the future.

Utd have actually done the opposite of what we're doing. Their old Nike deal was along the lines of our Nike agreement (they received a flat fee plus a profit share) but decided to move towards a more guaranteed number with Adidas. They obviously valued that security of that deal higher than the additional revenue they could make with a more incentivised deal.

It's easy to understand why we're more willing to take a more heavily incentivised deal than Utd were too. Yes Utd had just come off the back of a Moyes season but Utd were still established as one of the biggest sides in Europe, expected to qualify for and reach the latter stages of the CL every year and compete for the PL. There was less scope to grow sales through on-field performance. We on the otherhand, after a period of patchy on-field performance, have only just began to establish ourselves as a genuine force in the League and CL. Obviously as supporters we're hoping for and expecting a period of sustained success but from Nikes pov you can understand why they'd be unwilling to commit to a long term deal with large fixed payments without a longer track record of success. If we're still at the top table when this deal expires I'd expect that we end up being offered and accept a larger fixed deal.

[thekitkatshuffler]

Savvy AF our owners.

Just like they were savvy with the last contract and tied us into a renewal option that we're having to go to court over?

[deFacto please, you bastards]

£60m a year is mega money but it still feels a trifle underwhelming for a team with a legitimate claim to be the best in the world at this time and one of the most largely supported. I was hoping for closer to 100m.

Considering that Barca is Nike's biggest client in football who get over a 100 million a year, that was never going to happen right away.

[classycarra]

Just like they were savvy with the last contract and tied us into a renewal option that we're having to go to court over?

Probably best to wait and see the outcome before judging that? If the worst of it is having to prepare for two days in court, for an overall successful 10-15 year deal I think they won't be arsed

[Peabee]

Probably best to wait and see the outcome before judging that? If the worst of it is having to prepare for two days in court, for an overall successful 10-15 year deal I think they won't be arsed

Yeah, it may have been a redline for NB. And it may turn out to be savvy as it ensured any new commercial partner would have to beat NB’s offer overall. Nike may have felt they could offer less if there wasn’t a renewal option and we could walk away even if NB offered a better deal.

[killer-heels]

£60m a year is mega money but it still feels a trifle underwhelming for a team with a legitimate claim to be the best in the world at this time and one of the most largely supported. I was hoping for closer to 100m.

We shouldnt really be earning more than Man Utd. 60-70m seems about right.

[dimwit]

Ugh...Kappa? Oh God, no.

You never saw Totti with the skin-hugging Kappa kit?

Now I'm a hetero male, but that kit was pure sex.
 

[Zlen]

First game out in the White one tomorrow?

[TheYashLFC]

We shouldnt really be earning more than Man Utd. 60-70m seems about right.

Well if Man Utd don't qualify for the champions league we'll be earning more than them next year.

But I still think we'll be making more than the projections of 60-70m.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Yeah exactly.

But since a league or CL win is rewarded in the low millions, I reckon Nike should feel ok about supplementing most of the fees to pay out NB (obviously I'm working on assumption that'll be the ruling)

to be fair if we won the league the amount of gear they could sell will be insane

[CentenaryBoy]

You never saw Totti with the skin-hugging Kappa kit?

Now I'm a hetero male, but that kit was pure sex.
 

Kappa are awful. As are Hummel, Puma, Under Armour and pretty much every kit manufacturer other than Umbro, Adidas and Nike.

I quite like some of the kits New Balance have done for us, but they still feel a little low rent to me.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

All I remember about Umbro is itchy collars, be arsed with them ever again, Hummel stuff is nice tho

[CentenaryBoy]

All I remember about Umbro is itchy collars, be arsed with them ever again, Hummel stuff is nice tho

I don't think I've ever worn an Umbro kit, so I've no idea what they feel like, but I've always thought they were easily the most stylish looking.

They're far too small for us now. They don't have the reach or scope of the big boys like Adidas or Nike.

Hummel's stuff is rank, in my opinion. They're just about the worst kits around.

[royhendo]

Umbro is part of Nike now I think.

[red1977]

Umbro is part of Nike now I think.

Nike sold Umbro to another American company.

[Fordy]

Umbro is part of Nike now I think.

Nike sold it in 2012 mate.

[paulrazor]

An update from James Pearce in The Athletic:

https://theathletic.co.uk/1298559/2019/10/19/liverpool-battle-new-balance-in-court-but-nike-have-already-spent-6m-on-next-seasons-kit/

For those that don't subscribe, here's a few key points:

1. Nike have already began work on next seasons kit, spending nearly $6m.
2. Liverpool will argue that their agreement with Nike became legally binding in August and even if NB win the case, the answer should be damages rather than forcing the club to continue its partnership with NB.
3. Few more financial details around the deal - £30m flat fee + 20% royalty on net sales (this doesn't mean 20% of a £70 shirt btw), £2m worth of merchandise and Nike will give the club a 19% discount on the wholesale price of merch. £4m bonus for winning the CL, £2m for runners-up and £2m if we win the PL.
4. Based on projections, the deal is worth £60-70m per year.

thanks for sharing, but can someone explain the bolded bit to me, i dont really understand it.

[CraigDS]

thanks for sharing, but can someone explain the bolded bit to me, i dont really understand it.

I read it as the club will receive £2m worth of merchandise a year from Nike to sell, and we’ll also get a 19% discount for any additional merchandise we purchase from them for our stores.

So also seems we’ll keep control of our stores.

[paulrazor]

thanks once again Craig

[CraigDS]

thanks once again Craig

Could be wrong but I couldn’t figure out any other meaning.

The £2m merchandise probably means another £4m or so for us ultimately.



Court case has just started again, can follow it here... https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-kit-deal-trial-live-17102743

[CraigDS]

Case closed on Friday with our lawyer claiming he’d not seen any documents disclosed by NB regarding a mistake they made calculating how many doors they could offer in the Asia Pacific region. Genuine mistake or deliberate?

They have just disclosed all this evidence now though.

[CraigDS]

Our team is ripping apart the numbers that NB have provided the club - both doors and sales figures.

Their numbers look a complete mess - they don’t really appear to have any club how many stores are stocking stuff and the real number of kit sales in these stores.

[CraigDS]

Questioning of NB’s second witness has just finished. All he’s basically proven is the number of doors NB have told the club they can stock kit in to match Nike is pretty much bollocks.

Seems to be a lot of errors in the numbers themselves, as well as including things like 250 stores in Japan which currently only sell shoes and are unlikely to want to stock kit, and a shit load of NB franchise stores which NB cannot force to stock kit at all as this isn’t the type of product they sell.

Hogan now due to be questioned.

[LFCEmpire]

Questioning of NB’s second witness has just finished. All he’s basically proven is the number of doors NB have told the club they can stock kit in to match Nike is pretty much bollocks.

Seems to be a lot of errors in the numbers themselves, as well as including things like 250 stores in Japan which currently only sell shoes and are unlikely to want to stock kit, and a shit load of NB franchise stores which NB cannot force to stock kit at all as this isn’t the type of product they sell.

Hogan now due to be questioned.

Appreciate the updates mate, cant be arsed trying to follow this on Echo.

[CraigDS]

I’m only giving the main points to be honest, there is more detail on the Echo live updates but as you say it is shite on there!

[Statto Red]

Will they mention the biggest issue NB have, not so much how many doors they sell the kit's but production & distribution, the goalkeeper shirt is only available L to 3XL, for european kits, you can only get the 3rd shirt & in long sleeve even then only in size S, no sign [if ever] when any new stock with be back in production.

Last Season the home shirt was sold out by October, early November, new stock was only in shops in April, a couple of weeks before this seasons home kit was released.

[CraigDS]

NB sold 2.9m kits last season which generated revenue of £64m.

So according to that, if similar under Nike, that would be a roughly £12.8m cut for us off shirt sales. Although imagine Nike could possibly generate a slightly higher revenue over the same number of shirts.

[CraigDS]

Will they mention the biggest issue NB have, not so much how many doors they sell the kit's but production & distribution, the goalkeeper shirt is only available L to 3XL, for european kits, you can only get the 3rd shirt & in long sleeve even then only in size S, no sign [if ever] when any new stock with be back in production.

Last Season the home shirt was sold out by October, early November, new stock was only in shops in April, a couple of weeks before this seasons home kit was released.

I’ve seen nothing mentioned so far and the two NB witnesses seem to have had all the questions asked to them as will happen. Not sure if we’ll call anyone else from NB.

[CraigDS]

Their guy is questioning Hogan currently. Suggests we were not one of the most exciting clubs in terms of marketing in world football when we signed with NB.

Someone might want to send him the links to full houses and crazy scenes in the likes of Australia, Far East and the US.

[Statto Red]

I’ve seen nothing mentioned so far and the two NB witnesses seem to have had all the questions asked to them as will happen. Not sure if we’ll call anyone else from NB.

That's disappointing, that's the main issue most of us have, getting the kit back in stock, it's months before they get new stock in when initial stock runs out, that's if NB order new stock.

I'll say it again, NB kits have been nice, but production & distribution have been awful.