Topic: New Kit thread

[CraigDS]

I can't get my head around NB thinking their distribution is good. It's absolutely terrible and smalltime. Half the time you can't even get our kit in our own city, never mind further afield. The amount of times I've been in the club shops and people are wanting to throw money at them for shirts that are not in stock is both staggering and embarrassing.

The question of production has yet to be brought up. I’d really hope it is going to be, as even if they can somehow match 6000+ stores stocking the kit as Nike are offering, then it needs to be asked just how they’ll supply these shops. Because they can’t even manage the number they are stocking now.

[Kopout]

this will really go on for next 2 days? seems everything pretty much covered today

[CraigDS]

this will really go on for next 2 days? seems everything pretty much covered today

Only one witness so far. NB have another yet. Not sure about us and if we’re calling anyone else on top of those two.

[Son of Spion]

The question of production has yet to be brought up. I’d really hope it is going to be, as even if they can somehow match 6000+ stores stocking the kit as Nike are offering, then it needs to be asked just how they’ll supply these shops. Because they can’t even manage the number they are stocking now.

This is it. They are currently already failing.

I don't even like Nike stuff in general, so have no preference for them on that score. It's just that I feel NB simply cannot match up on the production/distribution front. This has been obvious for quite some time now. I'm sick of going to places and seeing that you cannot get hold of LFC kit when other English clubs are well represented. It's hard enough getting it in the LFC official store too, and I find that simply ridiculous.

[CraigDS]

The Judge laying some shame down on Georginio Wijnaldum by asking who he is 

[CraigDS]

Bit of confusion as they’ve (NB) now said Nike’s projection for shirt sales in 20/21 is 2.9m, and that NB had projected the same even in less stores.

[Scouser-Tommy]

Our kit was only in 275 stores in North America in 18/19.

The season after getting to the CL final, and during which we went toe to to for the title and the CL run. Lunacy.

I've been curious about figures like this.

When we went to South America a few years ago, we didn't see any LFC New Balance gear in any shops at all but all the big or even average adidas/Nike teams had all sorts on sale.

[CraigDS]

I've been curious about figures like this.

When we went to South America a few years ago, we didn't see any LFC New Balance gear in any shops at all but all the big or even average adidas/Nike teams had all sorts on sale.

Numbers for SA I’ve seen mentioned are we have 11 stores stocking kit in Brazil. NB claim they can up this to 227 by end of the season.

In LA as a whole there were 107 come the summer, they reckon they can up this to 445 by seasons end.

[stewy17]

I don't know whether the club will ultimately win the case, but fuck me if they don't they need to find another way out.

Astonishing some of the errors/fibs that appear to have gone on here. If nothing else they've managed to paint NB as a bit shit, as we all knew.

[dudleyred]

NB coming across as a bunch of amateurs at the moment

[bailey90]

NB sounds like a right shit show.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Total amateurs, the lot of them. The only reason they're relevant in football is because of us.

[CowboyKangaroo]

Is it me or does 30mil sound a bit low even taking into account the extra approx 30mil from the 20% royalty? I'd have thought we'd be looking at a record deal with our current level of exposure

[CraigDS]

Is it me or does 30mil sound a bit low even taking into account the extra approx 30mil from the 20% royalty? I'd have thought we'd be looking at a record deal with our current level of exposure

Estimating 2.9m kits sold in 20/21. At £60 average each that’s roughly £35m extra for our cut.

That’s not including any other merchandise sales, of which we sell shit loads.

[Greg86]

Is it me or does 30mil sound a bit low even taking into account the extra approx 30mil from the 20% royalty? I'd have thought we'd be looking at a record deal with our current level of exposure

It depends on other elements of the agreement, if we've retained control over other merchandise (excluding kits etc) and Nike have agreed to stock those items in the doors they are getting the kits into (for a fee of course) then the deal could be worth a lot more than the figures being bandied around.

[CowboyKangaroo]

No, there is a law.

You claimed you based you conclusion on similar cases the court has ruled on- I simply asked what these were and you’ve not given any. I don’t remember any high profile cases recently, or seen one spoken about in the run up to this case, maybe you could inform us all?

I’ve not suggested I’m an expert or attempted to say I know the outcome. I simply pointed out you’ve not seen anything to enable you to come to any conclusion. Neither have I, so I haven’t done so.

There was a recent case of SDI Retail Services Ltd v The Rangers Football Club Ltd. Similar in terms of the basic factual matrix. Judge Teare granted injunctive relief to Sports Direct in that case. Of course whether that case is at all similar will dependant on the specific wording of the respective contracts.

[BaZ87]

Estimating 2.9m kits sold in 20/21. At £60 average each that’s roughly £35m extra for our cut.

That’s not including any other merchandise sales, of which we sell shit loads.

Where's the £60 average figure come from? There's no way Nike will be paying royalties on the price that Sports Direct (or any retailer) are selling the shirt. The royalty will be on the wholesale price.

[rafathegaffa83]

Our kit was only in 275 stores in North America in 18/19.

The season after getting to the CL final, and during which we went toe to to for the title and the CL run. Lunacy.

This doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Easier to find  a Celtic or Man City shirt than one of ours in most sports shops over here

[CowboyKangaroo]

It depends on other elements of the agreement, if we've retained control over other merchandise (excluding kits etc) and Nike have agreed to stock those items in the doors they are getting the kits into (for a fee of course) then the deal could be worth a lot more than the figures being bandied around.

Perhaps, but given that the case turns on the numbers bandied about, you'd have thought that we would have heard some solid estimates on the deals value. So Far we've heard the 30 + 20% (which Craig rightly points out is more like 35m than 30m).

Perhaps there have been more attempts to quantify it and just missed it though.

[CraigDS]

Perhaps, but given that the case turns on the numbers bandied about, you'd have thought that we would have heard some solid estimates on the deals value. So Far we've heard the 30 + 20% (which Craig rightly points out is more like 35m than 30m).

Perhaps there have been more attempts to quantify it and just missed it though.

It may well come out. There are apparently some details which will remain private so this is possibly the case with exact figures such as that. They did give the 2.9m estimate for shirt unit sales though.

[I've been a good boy]

I hope we fuck NB off after this.

[Brian Blessed]

Didn't the article posted a few pages ago say the 20% is from net?

[mickeydocs]

I hope we fuck NB off after this.

Serious reputational damage for NB.

[Hazell]

Sorry but can anyone provide a recap of what happened or a link?

I tried the Echo website but it's absolutely awful.

[CraigDS]

Sorry but can anyone provide a recap of what happened or a link?

I tried the Echo website but it's absolutely awful.

The Echo updates are probably the best you’ll get - use an ad blocker or use reader view if you’re on iPad/iPhone and it’ll save you the hassle of their shite site.

[Hazell]

The Echo updates are probably the best you’ll get - use an ad blocker or use reader view if you’re on iPad/iPhone and it’ll save you the hassle of their shite site.

Ok thanks.

[Skagen]

I've been curious about figures like this.

When we went to South America a few years ago, we didn't see any LFC New Balance gear in any shops at all but all the big or even average adidas/Nike teams had all sorts on sale.

Was in Rio De Janeiro for a month, couldn't find a single store who had a Liverpool kit. Man Utd, Chelsea, Tottenham, Man City and other clubs where in lots of stores. It is a shame they can't provide a better distribution.

[CraigDS]

Their answer seems to be to try and shoehorn stock into running / shoe stores. The problem is these places don’t sell that sort of stuff, so they’ll no doubt have minimal stock - probably just the home kit at a guess. I seriously doubt a huge range of all 3 kits, some training gear, etc.

At least you know all of the 6,000 stores Nike intent to stock us in will no doubt be full on sports shops and they’ll have a decent range in there of our stuff.

That should really be brought up in the legal arguments too.

[bailey90]

https://twitter.com/MoChatra/status/1185297848822312962

Very interesting thread. Claims that based on the projected shirt sales, we'd easily hit the £70m that we originally thought the deal was, and would actually get closer to £100m when other merchandise is taken into account.

[BaZ87]

https://twitter.com/MoChatra/status/1185297848822312962

Very interesting thread. Claims that based on the projected shirt sales, we'd easily hit the £70m that we originally thought the deal was, and would actually get closer to £100m when other merchandise is taken into account.

His figures are based on an average selling price of £70 per shirt. That is plain mad! The royalty from Nike will be based on the price that they sell at - this will be split between shirts they retail directly and shirts that they sell wholesale to the club, to Sports Direct and any other retailer.

Nike sell Chelsea kits at £65, take the vat off and they're selling at just over £54. They'll be wholesaling that shirt at a fair bit less than that too. You'll be lucky if the blended average selling price is more than £40 per shirt.

Based on current levels (and Nike's forecast is for no growth next season), we could potentially be looking at sub £70m depending on performance related clauses and just how well other merch sells, in the first year(s) anyway. It's clear that the club haven't agreed this deal with Nike because they think it's amazing from day 1 (I'm sure they could have agreed more money in the short-term) but because they've believe, along with Nike, they'll be able to significantly increase shirt/merch sales in the medium to long-term and it'll pay off then.

[mercurial]

The deal will get in something like 60m on  shirt sales. I think the game changer would be the merchandise sales. If  merchandise sales  take  off then 100m is achievable. If we successfully position as a lifestyle brand then it will go way beyond. I  think it is pretty innovative from FSG given our current trajectory. A commercial multiplier would be success and the Asian market is massive if they can make even some headway in the lifestyle segment.

[killer-heels]

How did you follow the court case? Was it via newspaper website updates?

[BaZ87]

How did you follow the court case? Was it via newspaper website updates?

The Echo ran live updates: https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-kit-deal-trial-live-17102743

[OzBomber]

I've always wondered why United takes up 3 quarters of the football racks in sport stores here in Australia with Liverpool taking up the other quarter, after today it makes sense. New Balance literally just can't keep up with the worldwide demand. It's a no brainer to go with Nike now, regardless of how good the NB kits are.

[killer-heels]

The deal will get in something like 60m on  shirt sales. I think the game changer would be the merchandise sales. If  merchandise sales  take  off then 100m is achievable. If we successfully position as a lifestyle brand then it will go way beyond. I  think it is pretty innovative from FSG given our current trajectory. A commercial multiplier would be success and the Asian market is massive if they can make even some headway in the lifestyle segment.

It would take years and possibly decades to establish itself as a lifestyle brand. Also surely if Nike started plastering Liverpool merchandise on music stars and some big sports stars then the other teams sponsored by Nike would have quite a bit to say about that.

Ultimately commercial deals are of little interest to me in my Liverpool supporting life but looking at the detail thus far it seems too dependent on a great deal of luck and a shed load of future on pitch success.

[BrandoLFC]

Nike is already an established brand, there's nothing that would need to be done as far as getting people to want to buy Nike. It's just then getting them to buy the LFC branded Nike items.  Which once you start not only marketing the club but Virgil or Sancho or Mbappe in LFC branded Nike gear to all the school kids that want to be them then you're just printing money at that point.  Every parent that can afford it will get them an item for Xmas or their bday.

As far as the other Nike clients, it happens all the time in the US where the next NBA star signs a Nike or Adidas deal.  The older player may want a better deal then but nobody is telling Nike they can't sign someone. 

[Mighty Zeus]

Total amateurs, the lot of them. The only reason they're relevant in football is because of us.

NB sounds like a right shit show.

NB coming across as a bunch of amateurs at the moment

I hope we fuck NB off after this.

One thing I really want now is inside stories from the Warrior seasons.

New Balance rode in like Dad picking up his 14-year-old son pissed at the school disco.

I really, REALLY want the inside story on the marketing strategy and the design decisions. So Incompetent, so tone deaf, so fucking arrogant.

[killer-heels]

Nike is already an established brand, there's nothing that would need to be done as far as getting people to want to buy Nike. It's just then getting them to buy the LFC branded Nike items.  Which once you start not only marketing the club but Virgil or Sancho or Mbappe in LFC branded Nike gear to all the school kids that want to be them then you're just printing money at that point.  Every parent that can afford it will get them an item for Xmas or their bday.

As far as the other Nike clients, it happens all the time in the US where the next NBA star signs a Nike or Adidas deal.  The older player may want a better deal then but nobody is telling Nike they can't sign someone. 

Thats if that player wears that stuff. Why on earth would Sancho or Mbappe wear Liverpool branded material?

[ScouserAtHeart]

Thats if that player wears that stuff. Why on earth would Sancho or Mbappe wear Liverpool branded material?

Because they'll be playing for Liverpool

[dimwit]

Mbappe plays with Nike boots, so this can go on 

Other than that, It'll be great to see LFC playing with blue and red striped jerseys with "blaugrana" stiched on the collar.

Fuck Nike and its deals with barca.

Would rather see a nice kit from Kappa.